New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)

[Bolt]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I can understand why there would be some reluctance to invest in a second Delta movie, since music production is expensive and if the film's performance hinges largely on the music then you're taking an awful risk with your investment on a property with a clear single point of failure.

It seems as if the musical aspect of Delta is still making money and keeping fans engaged(with the music and idols). Though not necessarily with the rest of the story. 

Music , mecha and Love triangles. Rinse and repeat!

[Chronocidal]

While I can get the idol side of things still making money, I think they lost the crossover audience that Frontier had.  Delta's music might be decently popular run-of-the-mill J-pop, but it has about as much connection to the characters and story of Delta as "The Girl From Ipanema" has a connection to elevator manufacturing.

It's probably partly an artifact of having an idol group, as opposed to solo artists, but where Frontier's songs tended to have story and character context attached to them, Delta's soundtrack was completely detached from either.  You could have any Walkure member singing any song at any point in the series, and it wouldn't really make a difference, as long as the tune was properly fast/slow/peppy/major/minor to fit the scene.

Bottom line.. much like the characters themselves, Delta's music was basically under-developed to the point where it didn't matter to the story except as a piece of background scenery.  If the music is making money on its own, it probably doesn't make sense to blow the money to develop a new series just to advertise it more.

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Delta's music might be decently popular run-of-the-mill J-pop, but it has about as much connection to the characters and story of Delta as "The Girl From Ipanema" has a connection to elevator manufacturing.

Stan Getz  would be happy to hear that!

 

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Bottom line.. much like the characters themselves, Delta's music was basically under-developed to the point where it didn't matter to the story except as a piece of background scenery.  If the music is making money on its own, it probably doesn't make sense to blow the money to develop a new series just to advertise it more.

I liked the music from Frontier more, perhaps I should give Walkure another shot.. 

I never made the connection that the music didn’t fit well (as well as Frontier)with Delta.

If any money is being spent to develop Something Macross this way comes, perhaps they should let Kawamori run Wild. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Bolt

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

I liked the music from Frontier more, perhaps I should give Walkure another shot.. 

I never made the connection that the music didn’t fit well (as well as Frontier)with Delta.

If any money is being spent to develop Something Macross this way comes, perhaps they should let Kawamori run Wild. 

It's not that the music in Delta was necessarily bad, but aside from a few specific pieces it was background fluff that was mostly interchangeable throughout the story. 

When you compare that to Frontier's soundtrack?  Frontier was literally Wagner-esque by comparison, and most of the main characters had orchestral musical cues associated with them, without even counting any of Sheryl or Ranka's personal songs.  There were also some DYRL-like cues during the series, where familiar themes were remixed into alternate settings to fit different scenes, both for Sheryl and Ranka's songs, and for orchestral tracks.

To be entirely fair to Delta, I've only seen it once, and I don't know if the soundtrack CDs have lots of character tracks like Frontier did.  In my case, I just don't remember any of the non-idol tracks having any kind of staying power like Frontier, not to the point where I thought to myself "I need to find the name of this track!" like I did with the bombastic piratey-sounding SMS themes, or that majestic orchestral bit during the movie premiere applause scene.  So much emphasis was put on the pop music that I don't recall any of the rest of the soundtrack.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Chronocidal

[JB0]

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross FB7 is about as close as you're likely to Kawamori agreeing to revisit either.

That's... unfortunate. It was kind of the worst way to do a clip show.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, JB0 said:

That's... unfortunate. It was kind of the worst way to do a clip show.

Really?  I thought it was kind of fun in a quaint, charming sort of way.

 

16 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

To be entirely fair to Delta, I've only seen it once, and I don't know if the soundtrack CDs have lots of character tracks like Frontier did.  In my case, I just don't remember any of the non-idol tracks having any kind of staying power like Frontier, not to the point where I thought to myself "I need to find the name of this track!" like I did with the bombastic piratey-sounding SMS themes, or that majestic orchestral bit during the movie premiere applause scene.  So much emphasis was put on the pop music that I don't recall any of the rest of the soundtrack.

I have the Delta OSTs, and they are dull as dishwater.  There's no track on either that can even readily be associated with a character or a particular moment in the series... it's all bland and rather forgettable. 

[Gerli]

I wish for a new TV series when the civilians/colonies/planets go full rebellion against the tirany/incompetence of the NUNS and a full Civil War explodes on the Macross universe.... I want to see two ace pilots with two different valkyries fighting each other ala Gundam thunderbolt, but also fighting for the girl (or guy, go full diversity, I don't care) with awesome Yoko Kanno music.

And then we die 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Gerli

[Master Dex]

7 hours ago, JB0 said:

That's... unfortunate. It was kind of the worst way to do a clip show.

The beauty of stock footage! 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I have the Delta OSTs, and they are dull as dishwater.  There's no track on either that can even readily be associated with a character or a particular moment in the series... it's all bland and rather forgettable. 

I won't defend it overall but I do associate some songs. Axia is no doubt Kaname's song for the Messer death scene. I also associate Giraffe Blues with the moment Freyja stands up to and wakes up Larazzabal in episode 8. Admittedly the last song is so overused it isn't tied to that but that's what I think of when I hear it (incidentally I prefer Freyja singing it to Mikumo). I also associate Ikenai Borderline to Mikumo though the only moment of worth is the first episode and only cause it was new. 

Largely past those, I agree with you, not as much to connect to compare to Frontier. Most of the songs are just there. 

[Sanity is Optional]

I really hope they manage to snag Yoko Kanno again when they do another Macross show.

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

I won't defend it overall but I do associate some songs. Axia is no doubt Kaname's song for the Messer death scene. I also associate Giraffe Blues with the moment Freyja stands up to and wakes up Larazzabal in episode 8. Admittedly the last song is so overused it isn't tied to that but that's what I think of when I hear it (incidentally I prefer Freyja singing it to Mikumo). I also associate Ikenai Borderline to Mikumo though the only moment of worth is the first episode and only cause it was new. 

Largely past those, I agree with you, not as much to connect to compare to Frontier. Most of the songs are just there. 

You literally just listed off the entirety of what I remember of the music in the series, and for the same reasons.  "Axia" is "the one Kaname sings because Messer liked it", "Giraffe Blues" is "the one Freya un-brainwashed the cat-guy with" and "Ikenai Borderline" is "the one Mikumo sang while magic-punching herself out of a debris pile."  It's remarkably Seinfeldian.  

What's disappointing to me in all three cases?  I don't think any of them were lyrically relevant to the scenes they were used in.  They're good songs and all, but I don't recall any of the lyrics actually being contextually appropriate for the scenes (if they were, I like to think I would recall them).  They were just what the characters happened to sing at those moments.  "Axia" was the only one with a story connection, and even then it wasn't the song lyrics itself that were meaningful, just the fact that it was a nostalgia trip for Messer.

Comparatively, Sheryl's live "Diamond Crevasse" performance in episode 6?  I don't know whether it was just better composing and lyrics (unfair advantage here really), better context for the story, better writing/characterization, or some combination of all of the above, but it still blows me away as my favorite scene in the entire series.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Chronocidal

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

The beauty of stock footage! 

Well played, sir.  Well played.  

 

53 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I really hope they manage to snag Yoko Kanno again when they do another Macross show.

It'd be nice.

[Saruta]

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

You literally just listed off the entirety of what I remember of the music in the series, and for the same reasons.  "Axia" is "the one Kaname sings because Messer liked it", "Giraffe Blues" is "the one Freya un-brainwashed the cat-guy with" and "Ikenai Borderline" is "the one Mikumo sang while magic-punching herself out of a debris pile."  It's remarkably Seinfeldian.  

What's disappointing to me in all three cases?  I don't think any of them were lyrically relevant to the scenes they were used in.  They're good songs and all, but I don't recall any of the lyrics actually being contextually appropriate for the scenes (if they were, I like to think I would recall them).  They were just what the characters happened to sing at those moments.  "Axia" was the only one with a story connection, and even then it wasn't the song lyrics itself that were meaningful, just the fact that it was a nostalgia trip for Messer.

Comparatively, Sheryl's live "Diamond Crevasse" performance in episode 6?  I don't know whether it was just better composing and lyrics (unfair advantage here really), better context for the story, better writing/characterization, or some combination of all of the above, but it still blows me away as my favorite scene in the entire series.

Well for me another memorable - perhaps the most memorable - song is "Walkure wa Uragiranai" and in that particular case, as well as Absolute 5 surrounding it, the lyrics actually have a lot of relevance to the story.

But this was the movie. Apparently, they realized the problem and this was a fix.

There is a great song from the series with lyrics relevant to the story, though! It's "Bokura no Senjou", an actual song about aerial warfare for a change. But I don't even remember *where it is* in the series.

(Another one I really like is "Love Thunder Glow" but not sure if it even was in the series at all. It appears to be a JUNNA solo, the only difference from other JUNNA solos like "Vai Ya Vai" being its release via Walkure? And yes I just want more JUNNA solos and am trying to work out how to buy them off iTunes  given that I use Linux).

The lyrics dissonance seems to be one of the story points they, so far, missed the chance to explore. So we see this power-clone Mikumo sing a song about being madly in love in a very, er, sexually engaged way, "Ikenai Borderline", while kicking some bigtime ass. But - she never was. She never could be. She is three years old! Yet she speaks Japanese (or whatever language she sings in, if "translation convention" is in use) so knows what she is singing about.

What is this doing to her? What is it like to power the world with emotions you have no experience, nor education, to understand? Yes, this thing explicitly happened to her in the Sigur Valens... but it was also going on *from the start of the series* and no writer batted an eyelid to tell us any detail? Perhaps *that* is why the baddies could use her comparatively easily?

(One sincerely hopes JUNNA also never was by the time she recorded the song, being 14 and all, so it is yet another "close to home" moment).

If they were to explore this all in the second movie it would be great. They would need to provide for some mecha action for it to be Macross and to pull a triangle from their, er, backside - or give Mirage a knife already. But whatever. Mikumo is the one I really want to know about, whether or not she is in a triangle. (I do doubt they would go for my preferred triangle with Mikumo - Freyja - Hayate in THAT order, but whatever, just Mikumo and the huge level of angst this story calls for).

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Saruta

[Einherjar]

On 1/7/2019 at 6:16 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

And many seemingly random red circles to you too.

On a theoretical level, are you willing to bet your online reputation against those circles?

[seti88]

 

At the end when roy says he is sick that ivanov made what he is today...

Makes me wish there was a focker origin story....not sure if there would be transforming valks though, but still, perhaps valks could be fitted in somewhere?

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, seti88 said:

At the end when roy says he is sick that ivanov made what he is today...

Makes me wish there was a focker origin story....not sure if there would be transforming valks though, but still, perhaps valks could be fitted in somewhere?

Not sure it'd be all that interesting...

As far as we know, the university he was attending was attacked somehow during the Unification Wars and he joined the military.  Ivanov was his instructor at flight school.  Then it's just him potting MiM-31s and older MiGs in a F203 for a while until he's tapped to serve as a test pilot on the VF-X-1 program in '07 and then seconded to model conversion training out there on the CVN-99 Asuka II in '08.  There wouldn't be any VFs in it unless it got far enough to overlap the flashback episode of SDF Macross.

(I may be somewhat against the idea because I've seen The Series That Must Not Be Named's attempt at it, and it was hilariously terrible.  They made him into a combination of Chuck Norris and Crocodile Dundee memes.)

Edited January 16, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[Convectuoso]

On 1/8/2019 at 12:58 PM, Gerli said:

I want to see two ace pilots with two different valkyries fighting each other ala Gundam thunderbolt, but also fighting for the girl (or guy, go full diversity, I don't care) with awesome Yoko Kanno music.

And then we die 

I think that's called Macross Plus

[seti88]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not sure it'd be all that interesting...

As far as we know, the university he was attending was attacked somehow during the Unification Wars and he joined the military.  Ivanov was his instructor at flight school.  Then it's just him potting MiM-31s and older MiGs in a F203 for a while until he's tapped to serve as a test pilot on the VF-X-1 program in '07 and then seconded to model conversion training out there on the CVN-99 Asuka II in '08.  There wouldn't be any VFs in it unless it got far enough to overlap the flashback episode of SDF Macross.

(I may be somewhat against the idea because I've seen The Series That Must Not Be Named's attempt at it, and it was hilariously terrible.  They made him into a combination of Chuck Norris and Crocodile Dundee memes.)

the flight school portion could serve as a lead in to something else perhaps that made Roy into a killing machine? Flight training is one thing but the valk is also somewhat a projection of being a soldier, since it’s also capable of hand to hand combat. Less impersonal than a fire and forget missile.

Then the meat of the story could cover how a pilot goes from piloting a non transforming aircraft to a transforming valk, and the experiences he had to learn to grow to be as effective in piloting gerwalk and battroid modes. Ivanov is also learning the same, but with a different angle that forces Roy to be ruthlessly effective...

just something I am thinking abt how to get macross away from girl bands..

but that is interesting that some series tried to do a Roy origin story too...I can’t remember if I heard abt that and subsequently forgotten it...

 

 

[Sanity is Optional]

1 hour ago, Convectuoso said:

 I think that's called Macross Plus

And it was awesome. More please!

[Bolt]

That would be quite something to see them take Macross that far back. They Would have to turn what’s supposedly canon upside down to make it interesting..

Man, I miss Zero and Plus! They’re like old friends now.

[HardlyNever]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not sure it'd be all that interesting...

As far as we know, the university he was attending was attacked somehow during the Unification Wars and he joined the military.  Ivanov was his instructor at flight school.  Then it's just him potting MiM-31s and older MiGs in a F203 for a while until he's tapped to serve as a test pilot on the VF-X-1 program in '07 and then seconded to model conversion training out there on the CVN-99 Asuka II in '08.  There wouldn't be any VFs in it unless it got far enough to overlap the flashback episode of SDF Macross.

How does that fit in with him knowing Hikaru and Hikaru's family?  Is all that before he goes to college?

I'm surprised there wasn't some kind of Ichijyo cameo in Macross Zero, even if very brief.  Like you see Focker talking to Hikaru's father, or maybe even showing a young Hikaru (even if it is just in a picture in the background or something).  That seemed like a missed opportunity for some reasonable fan-service.

Or is there something there that I missed?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Convectuoso said:

I think that's called Macross Plus

... it really is, but without the edgelord BS and pretentious music.

 

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

the flight school portion could serve as a lead in to something else perhaps that made Roy into a killing machine?

Pretty sure that's called "being a natural badass".  Roy's natural aptitude for flying led to him being a high-scoring ace in the Unification Wars... with 180 victories under his belt during the war, it'd be hard to argue he wasn't already a killing machine before he got his hands on a VF.  (For reference, the top scoring ace of the supersonic jet era in the real world is Giora Epstein of the Israeli Air Force, with 17 confirmed victories.)

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Flight training is one thing but the valk is also somewhat a projection of being a soldier, since it’s also capable of hand to hand combat. Less impersonal than a fire and forget missile.

Granted, but most of the fiddly aspects of maneuvering on the ground are handled by the VF-0's/VF-1's ANGIRAS integrated airframe management and control AI rather than the pilot himself (or herself).  It's still basically point-and-click.

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Then the meat of the story could cover how a pilot goes from piloting a non transforming aircraft to a transforming valk, and the experiences he had to learn to grow to be as effective in piloting gerwalk and battroid modes. Ivanov is also learning the same, but with a different angle that forces Roy to be ruthlessly effective...

That's well after how Roy learned to be a pilot, and more overlapping with SDF Macross Ep33... which was after D.D. defected to the Alliance.

With 180 kills, Roy was already pretty ruthlessly effective before he ever set foot in a VF.

 

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

but that is interesting that some series tried to do a Roy origin story too...I can’t remember if I heard abt that and subsequently forgotten it...

If you read it, you'll want to forget it all over again.  It. Was. TERRIBLE.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Bolt said:

That would be quite something to see them take Macross that far back. They Would have to turn what’s supposedly canon upside down to make it interesting..

Man, I miss Zero and Plus! They’re like old friends now.

But you can see them whenever you want... so why miss them when you can just pay them a visit?

 

 

8 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

How does that fit in with him knowing Hikaru and Hikaru's family?  Is all that before he goes to college?

His bio in Zero suggests it was probably after he and Aries Turner broke up in college that he became a stunt pilot in the Ichijo family's flying circus... since his breakup with Aries is indicated to be what essentially turned him from a serious young man into a drinking, carousing womanizer and risk-taker.

 

8 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

I'm surprised there wasn't some kind of Ichijyo cameo in Macross Zero, even if very brief.  Like you see Focker talking to Hikaru's father, or maybe even showing a young Hikaru (even if it is just in a picture in the background or something).  That seemed like a missed opportunity for some reasonable fan-service.

Or is there something there that I missed?

IIRC there was something in the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross about Roy having had a falling-out or something with Hikaru's father over his decision to join the military and having reneged on his promise to return to the flying circus after the Unification Wars ended.

[Bolt]

34 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

But you can see them whenever you want... so why miss them when you can just pay them a visit?

I know, I know.  I just miss that mature style of story telling and intensity in the newer Macross world. And YES, I know why it is what it is. 

Which makes me wonder. Walkure is obviously good for Walkure, hence the concert craze. But was it good for Macross? Would be very interested to see the spread sheet on that..

40 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IIRC there was something in the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross about Roy having had a falling-out or something with Hikaru's father over his decision to join the military and having reneged on his promise to return to the flying circus after the Unification Wars ended.

Yes , I remember thinking how much it seemed to matter to young Hikaru , asking Roy about that..

[Sildani]

Worth noting here that the Macross WE want isn’t necessarily the Macross OTHERS want, and it seems the others outnumber us greatly. 

[Bolt]

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

I know, I know.  I just miss that mature style of story telling and intensity in the newer Macross world. And YES, I know why it is what it is.

Like I said..

I’m allowed to dream...sigh*

[BlackRose]

On 1/16/2019 at 3:25 PM, Bolt said:

I know, I know.  I just miss that mature style of story telling and intensity in the newer Macross world. And YES, I know why it is what it is. 

For my money it doesn't necessarily have to be mature storytelling as long as it's effective storytelling.

If you can't get invested in the characters what's the point.  Like for Delta it's hard to give a damn about Walkure or most of the other characters because we barely know anything about them.

[Saruta]

I still want some effective storytelling and character development and interesting and emotional arcs. And I'm fine with them being about an idol group fighting a galaxy-wide danger (beats fighting closure of a school, at least).

[JB0]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:15 PM, Sildani said:

Worth noting here that the Macross WE want isn’t necessarily the Macross OTHERS want, and it seems the others outnumber us greatly. 

Man, you ain't lyin'. I'm not even always on the right side of "WE". I just want another show as dedicated to believable characterization and growth as SDF was. A show about people, rather than events and merchandise.  

Characterization and growth fueled by angry-but-misguided space aliens, empowered by transforming robojets, and underscored by a nice soundtrack, of course.

[brouken]

Engaging story, relatable characters, and catchy soundtrack aside, all I really want from a Macross series is some serious VALK ACTION! 

And no, not more scissoring please. Hire a better mecha action director for the next series. 

[charles88]

News : https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2019-02-02/shoji-kawamori-aims-to-release-new-macross-delta-film-in-2020/.142917

So its confirm that 2nd movie is pure original story and essentially sequel to Delta. I so look forward to see who new villain in movie as series villain Roid killed in movie 1.

So what you guys think of possible new villain?
 

Edited February 2, 2019 by charles88

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, charles88 said:

So its confirm that 2nd movie is pure original story and essentially sequel to Delta. I so look forward to see who new villain in movie as series villain Roid killed in movie 1.

So what you guys think of possible new villain?

The villain of the story... who knows?  Maybe it'll be Lady M, once the New UN Government, New UN Forces, and Brisingr Alliance local governments finally overcome bureaucratic inertia and initiate legal proceedings against her and her company for a laundry list of criminal and questionable activity.

The real villains, of course, are the production committee and Kawamori for back-burnering or canceling a new series in favor of inflicting another serving of Delta's weaksauce on us all.

[seti88]

Wait...there was an announcement in September(?) for a second delta movie in 2020? 

Was there an announcement? 

Anyway a second delta movie.....yay-ish? My only skin in the game would be a possibility of a next gen valk perhaps!

Edited February 2, 2019 by seti88

[Seto Kaiba]

19 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Wait...there was an announcement in September(?) for a second delta movie in 2020? 

Was there an announcement? 

During the most recent Crossover Live, IIRC.

[Bolt]

Interesting.

kawamori doing sequels now..

From the guy who doesn’t like to go back..

[Master Dex]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

Interesting.

kawamori doing sequels now..

From the guy who doesn’t like to go back..

Well.. He's done direct continuations like the multiple Frontier movies. He just doesn't go back to older stories later. 

I honestly suspect the big wigs here are telling him to do more Delta cause Walkure makes money. If SK actually wants this then he really has sold out. 

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

Well.. He's done direct continuations like the multiple Frontier movies. He just doesn't go back to older stories later. 

I honestly suspect the big wigs here are telling him to do more Delta cause Walkure makes money. If SK actually wants this then he really has sold out. 

Or maybe a more simple reason. If he wants to do another TV series, he need to give them one more movie.