New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)

[wmkjr]

2 hours ago, ZOR prime said:

Where did u see that?

I haven't seen no such news.

I did see an article in Forbes,that Macross hasn't been released in its entirety across the world.

 

 

According to an interview with kawamori

The 1st page of this thread mentions the new series, as for the movie there is a thread labeled Macross Delta movie announced posted a few hours ago.

Edited August 6, 2017 by wmkjr

[Mommar]

On 8/4/2017 at 1:07 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I dunno, I thought within certain bounds Hayate and Freyja managed to actually be more likeable than Alto and Ranka.  Maybe that's just because Freyja was actually a participant instead of a spectator and Hayate was a bit more mature and actually seemed to enjoy life.  (Alto always felt like he was going through life looking for something to be angry about... which is perfectly realistic for a teenage boy, but not all that interesting in the bargain.)

This is why I'd like them to fix the story in Delta.  I actually like Hayate.  It would be great to have a show I like as well.

[Sir Galahad®]

Well to be fair, Alto and Hayate seemed to be the only one acting their ages.

Hikaru, Max and Kakazaki were 16~17 years old. Hikaru fluctuated by showing a lot of Maturity (when asked about Zentradi Acceptance into the ship) to switching from Misa to Minmay in each episode. Max was asking himself if he can be a good squadron leader when he was given one. And Kakizaki thought that going to a nice place meant going to a night club. They should not be 16~17. Hahahahaha!

Gamlin is 17, prefers enka to rock and roll, he acts more like an old man though. Basara acts more like a child at 21

Alto had teenaged angst, based from his relationship with his father and what he wanted in life.

Hayate was a Hakuna Matata kind of guy.

Well we have these ages because the target audience is close to that I guess. Ken Washio is 18, Joe Shimamura is 18, Amuro Ray is 16, Ken'ichi Go (of Voltes V) is 18, Koji Kabuto is 16.

Only Isamu and Guld were older at 24

[Podtastic]

Why do they assume that the target audience will identify with them simply because they are similar ages? Being the same age doesn't automatically mean that you have common ground. It seems odd logic to me.

I had always thought that the young ages were merely an advancement of the usual conscript age of 18- 19. A non-augmented human only has a very small window,  when they are in their physical peak, to exploit (fast reflexes etc included) after all.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Podtastic
grammar

[Focslain]

3 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Why do they assume that the target audience will identify with them simply because they are similar ages? Being the same age doesn't automatically mean that you have common ground. It seems odd logic to me.

I had always thought that the young ages were merely an advancement of the usual conscript age of 18- 19. A non-augmented human only has a very small window,  when they are in their physical peak, to exploit (fast reflexes etc included) after all.

This is more due to Japanese culture. Once your out of high school it's a general consensus that you take responsibility and hold down a job or be a productive member of society. It's the high school age bracket that you can be adventurous and 'care free'.

Those that are older and still do adventure are looked down upon as bad role models. While they are still in the media, it's rarer.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, Podtastic said:

Why do they assume that the target audience will identify with them simply because they are similar ages? Being the same age doesn't automatically mean that you have common ground. It seems odd logic to me.

Similar age isn't all of it... Macross's protagonists have always sort of following the tone of the times in an effort to have them evoke the same sort of feelings that similarly-aged teens might be feeling at the time the show aired.  Hayate's pacifist, borderline anti-military attitude is part of this.  Japan's currently grappling with the psychological paradox of needing to build up their defense forces and being morally opposed to militarism after what happened last time.

 

15 hours ago, Podtastic said:

I had always thought that the young ages were merely an advancement of the usual conscript age of 18- 19. A non-augmented human only has a very small window,  when they are in their physical peak, to exploit (fast reflexes etc included) after all.

It's definitely to make the characters more relatable to the audience.

I don't think any reason has ever been given for why the UN Government, and later New UN Government, set the age of majority at 17 instead of the more traditional 18 or 20+.

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(...) Japan's currently grappling with the psychological paradox of needing to build up their defense forces and being morally opposed to militarism after what happened last time.

Erm... not quite.  In short - you're not putting yourself in their shoes.

PM Abe is being forced to increase the SDF (that's Self Defence Force, not the ship ), but he hasn't effectively conveyed to the public why.  He's also trying to change article 9 in the process (the anti-war article in the constitution), which is provoking the most outrage.

It's an incredibly complex issue to convey.  Not the least of it is due to the (in my opinion) poor level of education on the recent past.  So, a lot of people who haven't lived through those events, don't know (and, many don't care) about the geopolitics.

So, Hayate's role in the series, though in-line with some of the people protesting the Abe government's 'militaristic' actions, also serves as the mouthpiece of the show's creators to the audience (like the pro-nature stance of some of the protagonists in Macross Zero).

(To be perfectly honest - this is an issue that truly cannot be summarized in a few lines of text.  I doubt I've done it justice.)

Edited August 15, 2017 by sketchley

[kalvasflam]

6 hours ago, sketchley said:

PM Abe is being forced to increase the SDF (that's Self Defence Force, not the ship )

I liked it better when it was a Super Dimensional Fortress, if we take the standard Frontier model, it's about 15 km long before the smaller island chains... that length should be at least doubled.  30 km should be the minimum size of an SDF.

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/15/2017 at 6:09 AM, sketchley said:

Erm... not quite.  In short - you're not putting yourself in their shoes.

I did rather oversimplify things, in an effort to avoid getting into the politics of it. 

 

22 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

I liked it better when it was a Super Dimensional Fortress, if we take the standard Frontier model, it's about 15 km long before the smaller island chains... that length should be at least doubled.  30 km should be the minimum size of an SDF.

Here's hoping whatever story we get for the new series doesn't try to cheat by having all of the big warships mysteriously absent for its war.  It was really jarring how Delta had a globular cluster that was settled by multiple emigrant fleets, and yet there wasn't a single New UN Spacy warship larger than a Uraga-class carrier and the largest gunship was the Stealth Cruiser Northampton subclass.

[kalvasflam]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Here's hoping whatever story we get for the new series doesn't try to cheat by having all of the big warships mysteriously absent for its war.  It was really jarring how Delta had a globular cluster that was settled by multiple emigrant fleets, and yet there wasn't a single New UN Spacy warship larger than a Uraga-class carrier and the largest gunship was the Stealth Cruiser Northampton subclass.

Or that most of the warships on both sides were simply brushed aside like an afterthought or a redshirt in the few minutes of "fleet" actions that we saw.   And I thought the Protoculture ship was rather underwhelming all things considered.  I wonder why there are even volunteers for those types of ships any more, and why all of them aren't just automated carriers loaded with Ghosts.  (I guess that must be the local version of a jobs program)  Must be some excellent benefits associated with being a crew member on any UN Spacy ship that isn't a Macross class... although I bet there isn't a life insurance policy, since that would be too expensive.

[Seto Kaiba]

10 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Or that most of the warships on both sides were simply brushed aside like an afterthought or a redshirt in the few minutes of "fleet" actions that we saw.

Even the fleets in Macross 7 and Macross Frontier didn't get that kind of dismissive treatment.  

 

10 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

And I thought the Protoculture ship was rather underwhelming all things considered.

Other than being ugly and having a fold fault barrier like the Vajra Queen, it didn't really do a lot.

 

10 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

I wonder why there are even volunteers for those types of ships any more, and why all of them aren't just automated carriers loaded with Ghosts.

There probably are a few like that.  Macross Chronicle did indicate that there are several New UN Government member nations that abandoned manned air forces altogether in favor of the Ghosts and other unmanned craft instead of adopting the VF-171 Nightmare Plus.

(I can't help but wonder how many of them are suffering a bit of buyer's remorse seeing what the 5th Generation VFs are like performance-wise after demolishing their pilot training programs.)

[Sildani]

Eh. Those who did may well have been backwater planets who did not think they'd get involved in a large conflict against a similarly-armed opponent. 

[Sir Galahad®]

Here is a question, var syndrome is affected by the apples and the water, right? So if Federal NUNS suddenly appeared, they won't be affected by King Ketchup's singing right?

[Focslain]

11 hours ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Here is a question, var syndrome is affected by the apples and the water, right? So if Federal NUNS suddenly appeared, they won't be affected by King Ketchup's singing right?

It was a combination of the Windimarian apples and the Voldarian water that made the populous more susceptible to his singing. Like weaking thier immune system. But his singing still effected others. The Var was spread galaxy wide when the Varja left.

Just not sure how much Hienz can take at this point even using it as a defensive action.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Focslain

[Seto Kaiba]

On 8/16/2017 at 8:17 PM, Sildani said:

Eh. Those who did may well have been backwater planets who did not think they'd get involved in a large conflict against a similarly-armed opponent. 

Doubtful, IMO.  As long as the Zentradi Army is still around and operating several thousand Main Fleet-scale forces in the galaxy, pretty much every fleet and planet needs to be prepared to fight enemy forces that will certainly outnumber them and almost certainly outgun them as a result by even the most optimistic assessment.

The idiots who don't believe they need to be prepared for that - like Macross-29 - are few, far between, and certifiably too dumb to live. 

(Macross-29's status as a fleet in which the local government has adopted a philosophy of actual pacifism has earned them the acknowledged status of The Great Galactic Doormat in all matters political, economic, and strategic.  They're suffering for it, though they haven't been attacked by outside forces yet their economy is on the brink of collapse in 2062.)

 

 

11 hours ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Here is a question, var syndrome is affected by the apples and the water, right? So if Federal NUNS suddenly appeared, they won't be affected by King Ketchup's singing right?

Sort of.  Var syndrome is a fold wave-induced mental disorder brought about by the fold bacterium that exist symbiotically with sentient life.¹  The chemical compound formed by combining a protein from Windermere's Exdel apples with the dissolved minerals in the bottled water obtained from the Protoculture ruins accelerates the reproduction of the fold bacterium and makes people much more sensitive to biological fold waves of beneficial or inimical varieties.

As the fold bacterium in question seems to be something that most, if not all, sentients have in at least small amounts, King Ketchup's ability to influence and control people using fold song is more dependent on amplification than anything else.  Using seidznol to boost the receptivity of his local Brisingr Alliance audience via tainted foodstuffs just reduced the burden on him by making all his victims more susceptible to his song.

 

 

1. Berger Stone's periodic outpourings of exposition to Xaos's staff contain enough inaccurate information and outright contradictions to safely assume he's bullsh*tting them and our designated heroes are either humoring him to see if there's any unguarded observations buried in that extraneous waffle or, more likely, being military washouts and people who couldn't hack it at real PMCs they're too goddamn dumb to realize Berger's spinning a yarn.  He would have them (and the audience) believe that fold song is something new that came about as a result of the Vajra conflict... which doesn't fit at all with the explicitly-stated fact that fold singers were present on Earth TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS before humanity made first contact with the Vajra in 2040, and that Dr. Gadget M. Chiba had (re)discovered biological fold waves in the early 2040's via fold songs ("song energy"), invented a means of mechanical amplification, and successfully weaponized it years before the V-type bacterium was even identified by the 117th Research Fleet's study of the Vajra.

[Focslain]

26 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sort of.  Var syndrome is a fold wave-induced mental disorder brought about by the fold bacterium that exist symbiotically with sentient life.

¹  The chemical compound formed by combining a protein from Windermere's Exdel apples with the dissolved minerals in the bottled water obtained from the Protoculture ruins accelerates the reproduction of the fold bacterium and makes people much more sensitive to biological fold waves of beneficial or inimical varieties.

As the fold bacterium in question seems to be something that most, if not all, sentients have in at least small amounts, King Ketchup's ability to influence and control people using fold song is more dependent on amplification than anything else.  Using seidznol to boost the receptivity of his local Brisingr Alliance audience via tainted foodstuffs just reduced the burden on him by making all his victims more susceptible to his song.

1. Berger Stone's periodic outpourings of exposition to Xaos's staff contain enough inaccurate information and outright contradictions to safely assume he's bullsh*tting them and our designated heroes are either humoring him to see if there's any unguarded observations buried in that extraneous waffle or, more likely, being military washouts and people who couldn't hack it at real PMCs they're too goddamn dumb to realize Berger's spinning a yarn.  He would have them (and the audience) believe that fold song is something new that came about as a result of the Vajra conflict... which doesn't fit at all with the explicitly-stated fact that fold singers were present on Earth TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS before humanity made first contact with the Vajra in 2040, and that Dr. Gadget M. Chiba had (re)discovered biological fold waves in the early 2040's via fold songs ("song energy"), invented a means of mechanical amplification, and successfully weaponized it years before the V-type bacterium was even identified by the 117th Research Fleet's study of the Vajra.

Well at least I was half right, thank you for the insight as usual Seto.

[kalvasflam]

Just curious, what's Macross - 29?

Never heard of them before...

 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Just curious, what's Macross - 29?

Never heard of them before...

As the emigration fleets are referred to by the designations of the actual emigration ships they're formed around, it refers to both the 29th New Macross-class emigration ship and its support fleet, the 59th Large-Scale Long-Distance Emigration Fleet.  It's the setting for Macross the Musiculture.

The Macross-29 emigration fleet is a troubled one to say the least.  The fleet's government, under the useless Mayor Serge Glass¹, is incredibly weak as a result of its leader's timidity and its adoption of a pacifistic philosophy that made it kind of a doormat to the rest of the New UN Government.  Consequently, the fleet government's approval rating is very low, its economy is in shambles, and it's beset by rising anti-government sentiment² from the Zentradi activist group "Neo-Zentran" advocating for rearmament of the fleet.³  Unfortunately, the fleet's government doesn't seem any saner at the end of the story, aiming for economic revitalization through the entertainment industry⁴ (specifically, selling concert recordings)... which probably won't work considering the fleet's trade relations and bargaining position suck and they're not pushing anything wealthier fleets don't have more and better of.

 

1. Brother to Howard Glass, the now-deceased President of the Macross Frontier emigration fleet government.
2. Against the Macross-29 fleet government, not necessarily against the New UN Government as a whole.  Nor, for that matter, are they anti-culture or anti-human.  They're just political activists, mostly.
3. Under its leader Vigo Walgria, the Neo-Zentran movement is effectively a political activism group intending to affect governmental policy changes by the simple expedient of getting elected to public office and changing the policies through the entirely legitimate democratic process.  Their main goal is to revitalize the fleet's economy through rearmament, with a particular focus on using the rearmament to rebalance trade relations with the other governments who'd been taking merciless advantage of the Macross-29 fleet under the confrontation-adverse Glass administration.  Some of the group's more hardline members advocate a more violent, less democratic form of regime change, and attempt as much in the musical's second act only to be foiled by the usual Power of Song thing since they idiotically decide to take over a goddamn Miss Macross Contest venue.
4. Which proves only that the mainstream Neo-Zentran activist movement are the only sane people in the fleet, since everyone else is apparently now banking on an entertainment industry Hail Mary to save the fleet economy.

[Chronocidal]

This might be a non-issue due to advances in fold travel, but just out of curiosity.. how exactly does that type of economic system work, even in-universe?

Shouldn't each emigration fleet be self-sustaining?  Sure, communications can get back and forth, so I guess in that sense money can change hands between fleets, but digital money is not going to keep a fleet running by any stretch of the imagination.  Are the individual fleets kept close enough together that they can support each other economically?

I mean, maybe that's the entire point of the problem, but I haven't read up on the Musiculture material at all, so my limited understanding isn't helping.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

This might be a non-issue due to advances in fold travel, but just out of curiosity.. how exactly does that type of economic system work, even in-universe?

Shouldn't each emigration fleet be self-sustaining?  Sure, communications can get back and forth, so I guess in that sense money can change hands between fleets, but digital money is not going to keep a fleet running by any stretch of the imagination.  Are the individual fleets kept close enough together that they can support each other economically?

We've yet to get a really good look at how inter-fleet and interplanetary commerce works under the New UN Government in the 2050's and beyond, but from what's been said in-setting about many of the companies that handle interstellar commerce and finance it's not much different from a modern economy.

In theory, each emigrant fleet and planet is nominally self-sustaining in terms of the essentials for living.  "Reality ensues" in that that theory doesn't always hold up in practice.  Local governments under the New UN Government trade with each other for all the same kinds of things that various countries trade in today like food and drink, raw and processed materials, luxury goods, personal and military technology, exotic pets, and cultural exports like movies, music, and games.  A wide array of the little things that make life more interesting than simply surviving.  Some of it is done through licensing designs to local companies.  A lot of it is done with fold-capable cargo ships like the one that unwittingly brought Freyja Wion from Windermere IV to Al Shahal after she stowed away in a consignment of apples destined for export.  (SMS's parent company, Bilra Transport, is one of the major players in the interstellar shipping business.)

The economics of trade have come up in passing in a few Macross titles before.  Macross 7 made the first real mention of cultural exports via the galaxy network, with Fire Bomber's music being a major hit across the New UN Gov't's sphere of influence.  Macross 7: the Galaxy is Calling Me! got set on a planet that was home to a sparsely populated mining colony harvesting a rare mineral for export.  Macross Dynamite 7 had a fair amount of cultural and technological imports shown on its main setting planet of Zola, with the native Zolans adapting human media for their audience (like their own spin on Romeo and Juliet) and purchasing export model or civilian market VFs for both defense use and personal use.  Macross Frontier and its spinoffs really delved into it for the sake of background, establishing that Earth is arguably the leading technology exporter and that Frontier was nominally on the hunt for supplies of fold quartz at Richard Bilra's behest.  Sheryl's music is, naturally, a cultural export of Macross Galaxy where her label is headquartered.  The Brisingr globular cluster from Macross Delta is established to be kind of an economically stunted region as a result of its isolation, and Windermere IV's main grievances against the New UN Government are economic in nature... their world is rich in fold quartz, but trading in it is strictly controlled in the name of preventing dimension weapons proliferation, so they're stuck with agricultural exports as they don't have the infrastructure for anything else.  (Variable Fighter Master File contends that at least two of the three Project Triangler partners - Frontier and Olympia - legitimately intended to sell the new 5th Gen VFs they were developing to their economic and political allies... and official sources suggest that, at the very least, Frontier and Galaxy did.  Macross Olympia provided some processed materials for the VF-25's construction in the Master File accounting.)

 

 

4 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I mean, maybe that's the entire point of the problem, but I haven't read up on the Musiculture material at all, so my limited understanding isn't helping.

Macross the Musiculture only had a small number of publications cover it, and they don't really go into the nitty-gritty details of the fleet's economic woes.  The level of detail sufficient for the plot's progression seems to be pretty general, saying only that the fleet government's pacifism left them with a very weak bargaining position in trade negotiations.

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

This might be a non-issue due to advances in fold travel, but just out of curiosity.. how exactly does that type of economic system work, even in-universe?

Shouldn't each emigration fleet be self-sustaining?  Sure, communications can get back and forth, so I guess in that sense money can change hands between fleets, but digital money is not going to keep a fleet running by any stretch of the imagination.  Are the individual fleets kept close enough together that they can support each other economically?

 

The simplest explanation (and one Kawamori-san himself used in explaining the setting of Frontier), is that "it is the Age of Discovery, with e-mail".  So, just extrapolate the economic situation on Earth during that era to a pan-galactic scale, and you kind of get a sense of the economic system.

Another thing to keep in mind is the sheer scale of the distances involved.  If memory serves, it's been officially said that the Macross Frontier fleet took 20 years to get to where it is at the start of the series.  The most direct route back to Earth takes 10 years.

 

* Of course, the introduction of the Super Fold Booster technology has "reduced travel times to a 10th".  But that's still an incredibly long travel time.

[Chronocidal]

That's really my main thought, the travel times involved.  Assuming emigration fleets are launched in wagonwheel-ish spreads from colonized planets like they show in the intro, I'd be extremely surprised if the case of Frontier and Galaxy being within reasonable travel distance is common amongst the various fleets.  Sheryl's flight between fleets looked more like a commercial airline than something you'd be spending months at a time on.

I get the impression that information is really the only viable commodity that fleets can exchange on a regular basis, in terms of entertainment, research data, and design specifications.

[Master Dex]

42 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

That's really my main thought, the travel times involved.  Assuming emigration fleets are launched in wagonwheel-ish spreads from colonized planets like they show in the intro, I'd be extremely surprised if the case of Frontier and Galaxy being within reasonable travel distance is common amongst the various fleets.  Sheryl's flight between fleets looked more like a commercial airline than something you'd be spending months at a time on.

I get the impression that information is really the only viable commodity that fleets can exchange on a regular basis, in terms of entertainment, research data, and design specifications.

While that is a point, also to remember is the fold fault issue. It has been shown objective and subjective travel times differ wildly (and in my head canon this relates to Misa's original note of time dilation within fold space from SDFM). While the objective travel time for Frontier to get back to start is at best 10 years, maybe for the people on board it would be less. This of course doesn't count super fold booster technology first developed on Frontier which negates fold faults and as said reduces the effective size of the galaxy by a factor of 10. I suspect it is entirely possible though given how fold faults seem to work that Sheryl's trip between Galaxy and Frontier may actually take months but she and her crew aren't actually on the transport that long.

 

On the subject of Macross 29 though, I feel like that would be the perfect place for equally idiotic pacifist Lynn Kaifun... but we know he makes a living on Macross 11 managing bad cover bands, lol. How strange.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Master Dex

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

That's really my main thought, the travel times involved.  Assuming emigration fleets are launched in wagonwheel-ish spreads from colonized planets like they show in the intro, I'd be extremely surprised if the case of Frontier and Galaxy being within reasonable travel distance is common amongst the various fleets.  Sheryl's flight between fleets looked more like a commercial airline than something you'd be spending months at a time on.

Emigration fleets have been depicted in more than one Macross series as operating in what passes for close proximity to each other in space fold terms.  I would imagine that's intentional to at least some extent, since it would make it easier for the fleets to reinforce each other if one should come under attack.  

Macross 7 depicted the titular emigration fleet operating within reasonable fold distance of the earlier Macross-5 emigration fleet, such that they were able to plan a rendezvous with little difficulty and were the ones to discover Macross-5 had been destroyed by the Protodeviln's slave army.  

Macross Frontier and its prequel/side story Macross the Ride also depicted multiple emigration fleets operating within easy traveling distance of each other, such that regular tourism and sports tourism were both practical.  Macross R in particular depicted the Vanquish League VF air races in a manner not dissimilar to modern auto races, in that the league's championship involves races in a number of different venues including other fleets/planets.  The qualifying races at the start take place in the Macross Frontier fleet, but the regional championship was set to be done in a Riviera-class resort ship in the Macross Galaxy fleet.

So, at the very least, there seem to be little clusters of mutually-supporting fleets moving in concert around the galaxy.  They're obviously not ALL close enough to share trade links, but that's true of nations today as well.

(Of course, it's worth noting that humanity has gotten much better at building fold systems so they can travel much longer distances in much less time.)

 

 

Quote

I get the impression that information is really the only viable commodity that fleets can exchange on a regular basis, in terms of entertainment, research data, and design specifications.

I think that might've been true initially, but as the number of fleets increased and the scale and sophistication of each fleet increased along with the capability of fold systems it's gradually becoming less true as time goes on.  After all, Richard Bilra is an interstellar cargo service owner and it made him so fabulously wealthy that he could afford to not only start a private PMC, he bankrolled an entire emigration fleet to pursue his twofold dream of finding Minmay and obtaining fold quartz.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

While that is a point, also to remember is the fold fault issue. It has been shown objective and subjective travel times differ wildly (and in my head canon this relates to Misa's original note of time dilation within fold space from SDFM). While the objective travel time for Frontier to get back to start is at best 10 years, maybe for the people on board it would be less.

Macross Chronicle has kind of suggested that Misa's estimate of the time disparity during a fold jump (1 hour = 10 days) was a gross exaggeration born of humanity's inexperience with the technology.  It asserts there is almost no difference between the subjective time experienced by the ship's crew and the objective time passing in realspace under ideal conditions... though things like intense gravity fields and having to detour around fold folds can greatly increase the difference between ship time and real time.  Leon Mishima notes at one point the fold jump from the Macross Frontier fleet to Gallia IV would've been almost instantaneous if not for the fold faults between the fleet and the planet, which turned it into a day trip with a time loss of 172.25 hours.

Fold quartz-based zero time fold systems are noted to be able to fold right through fold faults like they're not even there and have no difference between ship time and real time, which would be why Luca suspects Richard Bilra's aim might be a trade monopoly based on fold quartz-enhanced ships... his fleets would be able to ignore the galaxy's most common fold navigation hazard and get where they're going MUCH faster.

 

 

1 hour ago, Master Dex said:

On the subject of Macross 29 though, I feel like that would be the perfect place for equally idiotic pacifist Lynn Kaifun... but we know he makes a living on Macross 11 managing bad cover bands, lol. How strange.

Maybe so, but he wouldn't be nearly as effective as a dig at Carl Macek if he wasn't living in a New Macross fleet that's done up as a goddamn Eagleland.

[Sildani]

Whaaaat? ^^^

[Seto Kaiba]

11 hours ago, Sildani said:

Whaaaat? ^^^

It's unlikely to ever get brought up in a proper Macross series since Kawamori doesn't like to return to old characters and plot points from stories he considers finished...

Spoiler

What little we're told about Lynn Kaifun's career as a manager after he and Minmay broke up late in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series is commonly interpreted as a "take that!" aimed at Carl Macek and his... adaptation.

After their breakup, he went on something of a wandering journey and managed a couple of unsuccessful and quickly forgotten bands.  He finally wound up living on Macross-11, a New Macross-class cityship modeled on America, where he became the manager of an unlicensed Fire Bomber cover band called Fire Bomber American.  Fire Bomber American were a blatant ripoff of Macross-7's wildly successful Fire Bomber in everything from music to how the band members dressed... and despite being established after Fire Bomber's first hit and having the band's catalog consist solely of English covers of Fire Bomber songs, they loudly profess the Fire Bomber from Macross-7 are ripoffs of them.  The band has a modest following in City-11 but is generally reviled anywhere the genuine article is known.

(Fans drew the connection after noticing that Kaifun's handling of Fire Bomber American was uncannily similar to Carl Macek's handling of Robotech... being a localization done without the knowledge or consent of the IP owners and devoting most of its PR to slandering the original with obvious lies.  What sold it was Kaifun echoing Carl Macek's famous pronouncements like the claim that the Macross story was created for Robotech and simply animated in Japan, or that Macross's were developing their sequels by imitating/ripping off Robotech.)

 

[Mommar]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's unlikely to ever get brought up in a proper Macross series since Kawamori doesn't like to return to old characters and plot points from stories he considers finished...

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What little we're told about Lynn Kaifun's career as a manager after he and Minmay broke up late in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series is commonly interpreted as a "take that!" aimed at Carl Macek and his... adaptation.

After their breakup, he went on something of a wandering journey and managed a couple of unsuccessful and quickly forgotten bands.  He finally wound up living on Macross-11, a New Macross-class cityship modeled on America, where he became the manager of an unlicensed Fire Bomber cover band called Fire Bomber American.  Fire Bomber American were a blatant ripoff of Macross-7's wildly successful Fire Bomber in everything from music to how the band members dressed... and despite being established after Fire Bomber's first hit and having the band's catalog consist solely of English covers of Fire Bomber songs, they loudly profess the Fire Bomber from Macross-7 are ripoffs of them.  The band has a modest following in City-11 but is generally reviled anywhere the genuine article is known.

(Fans drew the connection after noticing that Kaifun's handling of Fire Bomber American was uncannily similar to Carl Macek's handling of Robotech... being a localization done without the knowledge or consent of the IP owners and devoting most of its PR to slandering the original with obvious lies.  What sold it was Kaifun echoing Carl Macek's famous pronouncements like the claim that the Macross story was created for Robotech and simply animated in Japan, or that Macross's were developing their sequels by imitating/ripping off Robotech.)

 

Where is this story contained?

[Seto Kaiba]

57 minutes ago, Mommar said:

Where is this story contained?

The liner notes for the Macross 7 album "English Fire".

[Devil 505]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's unlikely to ever get brought up in a proper Macross series since Kawamori doesn't like to return to old characters and plot points from stories he considers finished...

  Hide contents

What little we're told about Lynn Kaifun's career as a manager after he and Minmay broke up late in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series is commonly interpreted as a "take that!" aimed at Carl Macek and his... adaptation.

After their breakup, he went on something of a wandering journey and managed a couple of unsuccessful and quickly forgotten bands.  He finally wound up living on Macross-11, a New Macross-class cityship modeled on America, where he became the manager of an unlicensed Fire Bomber cover band called Fire Bomber American.  Fire Bomber American were a blatant ripoff of Macross-7's wildly successful Fire Bomber in everything from music to how the band members dressed... and despite being established after Fire Bomber's first hit and having the band's catalog consist solely of English covers of Fire Bomber songs, they loudly profess the Fire Bomber from Macross-7 are ripoffs of them.  The band has a modest following in City-11 but is generally reviled anywhere the genuine article is known.

(Fans drew the connection after noticing that Kaifun's handling of Fire Bomber American was uncannily similar to Carl Macek's handling of Robotech... being a localization done without the knowledge or consent of the IP owners and devoting most of its PR to slandering the original with obvious lies.  What sold it was Kaifun echoing Carl Macek's famous pronouncements like the claim that the Macross story was created for Robotech and simply animated in Japan, or that Macross's were developing their sequels by imitating/ripping off Robotech.)

 

I read the story behind Fire Bomber American before, but I never noticed the RT references until you pointed them out.

[Sildani]

That's just... fascinating. 

IF HG loses their copyright thing, then perhaps by 2021 you'll be able to write the Macross Great Compilation where all of these tidbits and throw-away information can be recorded in one place and sold so you can be compensated. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Sildani said:

That's just... fascinating. 

IF HG loses their copyright thing, then perhaps by 2021 you'll be able to write the Macross Great Compilation where all of these tidbits and throw-away information can be recorded in one place and sold so you can be compensated. 

There are much better people to write that book than I.  sketchley, Gubaba, or Tochiro could provide a much more diverse array of trivia.

Still, now that I think on it, I would be rather happy if the next Macross series broke with tradition just a little and gave us some nods to all those minor works that do their best to expand Macross's continuity between the main shows and OVAs.

I'd love to get a glimpse of, say, Macross the Ride's Chelsea Scarlett in her later career as the New UN Government MP for the Macross Frontier government¹, or seeing a T-crush arena at a school², or maybe having the Queen's Knights³ perform a flight demonstration before a concert.

 

1. Per the novelization of Macross Delta, Macross R leading lady Chelsea Scarlett seems to have gone into government.
2. The "extreme" sport from Macross 7 Trash.
3. A Sheryl Nome-themed unit from Macross Olympia in Master File.

 

Edit: Further to my note about Kaifun, on review the bit about him living in Macross-11 is not in the English Fire!! album liner notes.  I remember reading it, but I'm looking into sourcing that one definitively with the gracious assistance of Gubaba and possibly Renato.  

Edited August 24, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[Podtastic]

On ‎2017‎/‎08‎/‎23 at 1:50 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Emigration fleets have been depicted in more than one Macross series as operating in what passes for close proximity to each other in space fold terms.  I would imagine that's intentional to at least some extent, since it would make it easier for the fleets to reinforce each other if one should come under attack.  

Macross 7 depicted the titular emigration fleet operating within reasonable fold distance of the earlier Macross-5 emigration fleet, such that they were able to plan a rendezvous with little difficulty and were the ones to discover Macross-5 had been destroyed by the Protodeviln's slave army.  

Macross Frontier and its prequel/side story Macross the Ride also depicted multiple emigration fleets operating within easy traveling distance of each other, such that regular tourism and sports tourism were both practical.  Macross R in particular depicted the Vanquish League VF air races in a manner not dissimilar to modern auto races, in that the league's championship involves races in a number of different venues including other fleets/planets.  The qualifying races at the start take place in the Macross Frontier fleet, but the regional championship was set to be done in a Riviera-class resort ship in the Macross Galaxy fleet.

So, at the very least, there seem to be little clusters of mutually-supporting fleets moving in concert around the galaxy.  They're obviously not ALL close enough to share trade links, but that's true of nations today as well.

(Of course, it's worth noting that humanity has gotten much better at building fold systems so they can travel much longer distances in much less time.)

 

 

I think that might've been true initially, but as the number of fleets increased and the scale and sophistication of each fleet increased along with the capability of fold systems it's gradually becoming less true as time goes on.  After all, Richard Bilra is an interstellar cargo service owner and it made him so fabulously wealthy that he could afford to not only start a private PMC, he bankrolled an entire emigration fleet to pursue his twofold dream of finding Minmay and obtaining fold quartz.

 

 

 

Macross Chronicle has kind of suggested that Misa's estimate of the time disparity during a fold jump (1 hour = 10 days) was a gross exaggeration born of humanity's inexperience with the technology.  It asserts there is almost no difference between the subjective time experienced by the ship's crew and the objective time passing in realspace under ideal conditions... though things like intense gravity fields and having to detour around fold folds can greatly increase the difference between ship time and real time.  Leon Mishima notes at one point the fold jump from the Macross Frontier fleet to Gallia IV would've been almost instantaneous if not for the fold faults between the fleet and the planet, which turned it into a day trip with a time loss of 172.25 hours.

Fold quartz-based zero time fold systems are noted to be able to fold right through fold faults like they're not even there and have no difference between ship time and real time, which would be why Luca suspects Richard Bilra's aim might be a trade monopoly based on fold quartz-enhanced ships... his fleets would be able to ignore the galaxy's most common fold navigation hazard and get where they're going MUCH faster.

 

 

Maybe so, but he wouldn't be nearly as effective as a dig at Carl Macek if he wasn't living in a New Macross fleet that's done up as a goddamn Eagleland.

So for interest sake, what would likely be the theoretical maximum distance that can be achieved in a single fold jump executed by a Golg Boddole Zer Mobile fortress equipped with a fold quartz-based zero-time fold system?

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Podtastic said:

So for interest sake, what would likely be the theoretical maximum distance that can be achieved in a single fold jump executed by a Golg Boddole Zer Mobile fortress equipped with a fold quartz-based zero-time fold system?

Retrofitting something that big with zero-time fold system clusters would require an astonishingly huge amount of fold quartz.  L.A.I. only managed to harvest enough to build a couple super fold boosters and one YF-29 during the Vajra conflict.

Given that energy requirements for a space fold grow exponentially as distance increases, and it's implied they grow linearly with the volume of space to be exchanged, the maximum range of any fold system is limited chiefly by the ship's ability to generate large amounts of energy quickly and store that energy for long periods of time.  I'd assume it'd probably be capable of jumps of up to ~1,000ly either way, though with a zero-time fold system network it'd probably be able to make much more efficient use of that 1,000ly range.  (It'd also get there a LOT faster, since they say a zero-time fold system reduces travel times to a tenth of what they were with conventional space fold systems.)

[no3Ljm]

Is there any new info or updates regarding the 'new' series?

 

[Valkyrie Driver]

On 8/16/2017 at 11:07 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Here's hoping whatever story we get for the new series doesn't try to cheat by having all of the big warships mysteriously absent for its war.  It was really jarring how Delta had a globular cluster that was settled by multiple emigrant fleets, and yet there wasn't a single New UN Spacy warship larger than a Uraga-class carrier and the largest gunship was the Stealth Cruiser Northampton subclass.

Um, to use a real world parallel, The US Coast Guard doesn't have huge ships. Its also a fact that the Macross-verse still uses some form of economy and currency that we recognize. Which means that mobilizing the massive ships would be costly. It's also probable that the NUNS, in its arrogance, didn't consider the conflict a big enough threat to warrant. Also, a real world parallel, when the US started to remove guns from fighter designs because missiles were the future, and the Nuke-centric nature of the cold war made force on force engagements a costly proposition. 

 

I'd just consider it a repeat of cold war mindsets (history is cyclical after all...).