VF-1 Carrier Trapping issue

[NZEOD]

Building a 144 scene with a Brownie at the moment of trapping on a carrier HOWEVER... everything I've read says the Arrestor hook is actually a pair of hooks (first issue) and that they are miles off axis in the legs (second issue)... Cant find any images of this though.

So... I'm wondering if I can fudge this into something SLIGHTLY more practical and make it two hooks that extend from the Arms to meet at a single hook.

I can't do two as thats just plain dumb and would be virtually impossible to trap on a moving deck by catching BOTH hooks. Catching one would violently yaw the plane so this option is out.

The gunpod stops a single hook BUT two could wrap around the gun fins and meet at a single hook...

Even more oddball would be a hook on the gun itself...

Thoughts?

Edited November 6, 2016 by NZEOD

[mickyg]

Definitely want to know what the "official" word is on this - in all my years of Macross fandom, I've never even considered how the Valkyries trap.

[NZEOD]

All of them have rear hooks BUT the VF-1 seems to have dual hooks from the engines which is just plain dumb.

The VF-0 series has a black and white hook behind the gun pod up under the tail plate.

But where to put this on the VF-1...

Edited November 6, 2016 by NZEOD

[NZEOD]

Another argument for having it in the arms and not the underside of the tail plate is on a VF-1 that puts the hook attachment point at the rear and above the C/G which would cause the nose to come off the ground when the hook pulled the cable.

ON the Arms it would be further forward (not the hook but the attachment point on the plane) and well below the C/G.

[Seto Kaiba]

Building a 144 scene with a Brownie at the moment of trapping on a carrier HOWEVER... everything I've read says the Arrestor hook is actually a pair of hooks (first issue) and that they are miles off axis in the legs (second issue)... Cant find any images of this though.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie/vf-1-fighter-controlsurfaces.gif

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie/vf-1-fighter-machinery.gif

Mecha Manual's got your back.

It looks like they deploy from the landing gear bays, from the side closest to the aircraft's centerline, and are canted slightly inwards towards the center.

[NZEOD]

Well THAT will never pass scrutiny in a display! Especially when I add the arrestor line into the display. What a mad idea. No pilot lands dead flat on a pitching deck.

Think it will need to be a compromise and have them deploy from the legs BUT meet in the middle under and behind the gun pod at a SINGLE hook point..

[Seto Kaiba]

Well THAT will never pass scrutiny in a display! Especially when I add the arrestor line into the display. What a mad idea. No pilot lands dead flat on a pitching deck.

We don't make the news, we just report it... though I'd imagine the wingtip roll-control thrusters, the reverse verniers, double-slotted fowler flaps, an AI based airframe control system, and the stonking huge size of the carrier they were intended to land on probably help somewhat.

That the Prometheus having seven cross-deck pendants instead of the usual three or four for a modern aircraft carrier may also have helped.

[TehPW]

agreed... and perhaps another reason those twin Tail Hooks are mounted on the insides of each engine nacelle: Engineers noted a larger amount of stress on the tail/back rocket motor's hinges because of the VF-0 using a traditional Naval Tail hook? a really awesome VF-0 mishap diorama would be that said VF-0 with a tail separated (partially or completely) from rest of the airframe... maybe showing the damaged plane getting ready to slide off the side of the ship (with the pilot in process to punch out!) with the tail/motor assembly still caught on the #3 wire?

[sketchley]

Who is your intended audience?

If they're NOT Macross fans (ie people who won't care), then you could get away with cheating it, and having a single hook coming out from between the arms.

If they are Macross fans... well... the above mentioned solutions are the only way to go. Maybe have a single hook on the wire for a more dynamic/realistic visual?

[NZEOD]

Mostly engineer types, Ammo techs and fliers, the people I hang out with... Single wont work on the Tomytec, the guns just too damn big

Damn this is a frustrating one...

Agrhh the VF31s have the same issue! The hook would be out of the gun. Might have to be a VF31 CF or Freya trapping

Edited November 7, 2016 by NZEOD

[coronadlux]

agreed... and perhaps another reason those twin Tail Hooks are mounted on the insides of each engine nacelle: Engineers noted a larger amount of stress on the tail/back rocket motor's hinges because of the VF-0 using a traditional Naval Tail hook? a really awesome VF-0 mishap diorama would be that said VF-0 with a tail separated (partially or completely) from rest of the airframe... maybe showing the damaged plane getting ready to slide off the side of the ship (with the pilot in process to punch out!) with the tail/motor assembly still caught on the #3 wire?

Now THAT is a good idea.

Edited November 7, 2016 by coronadlux

[Excillon]

Why would you need one? Id imagine a valk would just go to gerwalk to land.

[NZEOD]

How would you get from Gerwalk to Fighter once its on the deck and stationary? Its not a Harrier Jump Jet. Makes moving it round a tight hanger deck a pain the ass for maintenance crews. In fighter it can be towed. In Gerwalk a qual'd operator has to walk it. Assuming its not battle damaged and can still walk.

Gerwalk is harder for crew egress as its higher, its got a higher C/G on a pitching deck of a ship, anchoring it to a deck would be harder, engine maintenance would be harder and weapon hard points are now a few meters off the deck. Stripping parts out of it would make it impossible to move if it couldn't be operated. In Fighter mode the gutted airframe still has wheels and can be pushed or towed.

The Fighters dont have reverse jets, the have small verniers. They wont stop it in atmosphere. The Fighter was never shown to be able to hover so the arrestor system is needed to carrier landings.

Were a Valk to have to land on a destroyers deck like the one below...

Imagine how it would do that. Gerwalk mode. Now how does it get into the low hanger... it cant. So its stuck in Gerwalk mode on the deck. In Fighter mode on that deck it could never take off again either.

Yeah... it needs to land in fighter mode on a carrier.

Edited November 8, 2016 by NZEOD

[slide]

agreed... and perhaps another reason those twin Tail Hooks are mounted on the insides of each engine nacelle: Engineers noted a larger amount of stress on the tail/back rocket motor's hinges because of the VF-0 using a traditional Naval Tail hook? a really awesome VF-0 mishap diorama would be that said VF-0 with a tail separated (partially or completely) from rest of the airframe... maybe showing the damaged plane getting ready to slide off the side of the ship (with the pilot in process to punch out!) with the tail/motor assembly still caught on the #3 wire?

Now THAT is a good idea.

Finally an Idea of what to do with my VF-0Bs!!

That's make a great diorama. especially the punch-out

Edited November 8, 2016 by slide

[NZEOD]

I'm guessing you remember these two then...

http://dioramas-and-models.com/cutlass%20ramp%20strike%20(1955).html

Edited November 8, 2016 by NZEOD

[Seto Kaiba]

How would you get from Gerwalk to Fighter once its on the deck and stationary?

On a proper-sized carrier, you'd have a couple different options... like using the ventral verniers to "hop" the fighter and transform that way, or taking it down to the hangar level on one of the elevators in GERWALK and using a crane.

(There is official precedent for both.)

They weren't intended to operate on small warships. That's what VTOL-capable aircraft and helicopters are for... many later VFs were VTOL capable in all modes, though the capability was seldom used since dedicated naval vessels weren't all that common and the surface-based carriers offered pretty darn significant decks.

The Fighters dont have reverse jets, the have small verniers. They wont stop it in atmosphere.

Actually, the VF-1 has a set of large, high-powered verniers on the outside of each engine intake for rapid deceleration... many other VFs are outfitted with thrust reversers. The VF-1 is also unusual in that there is a clearly marked "Reverse" setting on the throttle lever.

The Fighter was never shown to be able to hover so the arrestor system is needed to carrier landings.

Aaaaactually, Hikaru briefly hovers a VT-1 to transform it from fighter mode to GERWALK mode in DYRL? during the escape from Vrlitwhai's ship by using the ventral verniers. The reverse should be equally possible.

The verniers on VFs are small, but they're quite powerful. Especially those reverse verniers and the wingtip ones used for roll control.

Imagine how it would do that. Gerwalk mode. Now how does it get into the low hanger... it cant. So its stuck in Gerwalk mode on the deck. In Fighter mode on that deck it could never take off again either.

Prior to the First Space War VFs were deployed to the large carriers and to ground bases... not really to small warships. The smaller space warships like the Northampton-class had very small footprint but very tall hangars and stored the VFs in battroid mode instead.

[NZEOD]

On a proper-sized carrier, you'd have a couple different options... like using the ventral verniers to "hop" the fighter and transform that way, or taking it down to the hangar level on one of the elevators in GERWALK and using a crane.

(There is official precedent for both.)

They weren't intended to operate on small warships. That's what VTOL-capable aircraft and helicopters are for... many later VFs were VTOL capable in all modes, though the capability was seldom used since dedicated naval vessels weren't all that common and the surface-based carriers offered pretty darn significant decks.

Actually, the VF-1 has a set of large, high-powered verniers on the outside of each engine intake for rapid deceleration... many other VFs are outfitted with thrust reversers. The VF-1 is also unusual in that there is a clearly marked "Reverse" setting on the throttle lever.

Aaaaactually, Hikaru briefly hovers a VT-1 to transform it from fighter mode to GERWALK mode in DYRL? during the escape from Vrlitwhai's ship by using the ventral verniers. The reverse should be equally possible.

The verniers on VFs are small, but they're quite powerful. Especially those reverse verniers and the wingtip ones used for roll control.

Prior to the First Space War VFs were deployed to the large carriers and to ground bases... not really to small warships. The smaller space warships like the Northampton-class had very small footprint but very tall hangars and stored the VFs in battroid mode instead.

I was getting at the point landing and storage in Gerwalk mode wasn't a good idea on a sea going vessel. And at the end of the day I want to do a nice practical looking dynamic carrier landing diorama so I'm going this route.

Edited November 10, 2016 by NZEOD

[Xigfrid]

That sound sick, can't wait to see this

[coronadlux]

I do remember that scene in DYRL. But he was going up into gerwalk, coming down might be more tricky to do on a constant bases for landings.

If the fighter is damaged and can only land in get walk, I'm sure that there's contingencies for that.

At the end of the day, anime magic has always baffled people, so making things look reasonable shouldn't be a big issue.

[MechTech]

I think the dual hooks in the picture (go anime magic!) would work. The arms would get ripped off with hooks on them Two hooks is a lot of extra weight though in reality. But there is no center line. Plus you get an extra chance! Looking at our aircraft every week; I think it might be possible. - MT

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Were a Valk to have to land on a destroyers deck like the one below...

Imagine how it would do that. Gerwalk mode. Now how does it get into the low hanger... it cant. So its stuck in Gerwalk mode on the deck. In Fighter mode on that deck it could never take off again either.

Yeah... it needs to land in fighter mode on a carrier.

I like the idea of a VF-1 landing in gerwalk mode on that destroyer. The deck should have a sliding mechanism so the VF-1 could slide into the hangar with the wings fully swept back.

[Vifam7]

How about replacing or modding the upper half of the gunpod butt (it would be the lower half in fighter mode) with a landing hook? Or simply put a hook at the very end of the butt and pretend that the arms swing down a bit when approaching the deck...

Ofcourse this means that if the pilot loses the gunpod, or the gunpod is heavily damaged, the pilot can no longer land on a carrier in fighter mode or has to opt for the barricade..

Edited November 28, 2016 by Vifam7

[EXO]

The VF-1 is more maneuverable than a standard jet fighter. That was the point of the Angel Birds demonstrations on launch date. I mean, this is a craft that can maneuver in battroid and Gerwalk in atmosphere. It most likely doesn't even need to use the hook.

[NZEOD]

yet they gave it two, and the VF4 has one, and the 11...

All good, I'm going to scale this diorama back up to 1/72 to solve the issue.

Edited November 28, 2016 by NZEOD

[EXO]

They also used the Prometheus deck to take off from in space in the series... lol.

[Knight26]

I'll have to check my books, but I swear one of them shows the VF-1 using its hands to grab the arresting cable.

[EXO]

LOL! That was one of the cartoons in the Perfect Memory Book, IIRC. One of them shows the Max and Millia VF-1Js kissing and Max's is taller than Millia's.

[NZEOD]

They also used the Prometheus deck to take off from in space in the series... lol.

The point is I want a do a diorama of a Pre Space Wars era VF-1 carrier landing and at that point the general public had no idea they could transform (so as to avoid mass panic about giant warlike aliens) and everyone saw them as simply next gen fighters.

If you have a HELPFUL comment, share it, if not...

Looks like it will have to be one of the VF-0s I have for this project.

Edited November 30, 2016 by NZEOD

[pengbuzz]

Maybe a good diorama would be to show a VF-1 in Battroid mode having done a faceplant into the flight deck.

[Chas]

How about replacing or modding the upper half of the gunpod butt (it would be the lower half in fighter mode) with a landing hook? Or simply put a hook at the very end of the butt and pretend that the arms swing down a bit when approaching the deck...

Ofcourse this means that if the pilot loses the gunpod, or the gunpod is heavily damaged, the pilot can no longer land on a carrier in fighter mode or has to opt for the barricade..

To be honest. I think this is the best solution. Given the pics posted earlier of the bottom/back of the VF-1 a hook placed here is in pretty much the perfect place. There could always be a secondary hook that gets deployed from one of the arms in case the gunpod goes missing. Also remember when Roy is detaching the cockpit from Hikaru's VF-1D? In the sloped part at the front of the arms there are those 3 little robotic manipulators that come out. Maybe something could be done using one of those? I mean they are right there in fighter mode.

EDIT: found an image from Perfect Memory

Edited December 1, 2016 by Chas

[NZEOD]

naa thats the helping hands or what ever they called them... mini manipulators for semi delicate tasks and maybe selfrepair in the field?

Maybe a good diorama would be to show a VF-1 in Battroid mode having done a faceplant into the flight deck.

lol, gerwalk is better for epic faceplants

[pengbuzz]

Okay folks: I started a new model (another VF-1, go figure!) and found this on the inside packaging:

 

I'm guessing that pretty much settles the debate, huh (although ti still seems  to be a setup for a landing disaster of epic proportions!) .

Edited March 10, 2017 by pengbuzz

[NZEOD]

YEAH PRETTY MUCH MAKES TRAPPING  IMPOSSIBLE ON A PITCHING DECK

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, NZEOD said:

YEAH PRETTY MUCH MAKES TRAPPING  IMPOSSIBLE ON A PITCHING DECK

Or just about anywhere else that they don't want an explosion, fire, people running around screaming as their clothing is burning and all-out chaos. O.o