The Nintendo Switch

[UN Spacy]

Nice…nabbed one from Amazon Japan.

 

 

[UN Spacy]

 

[mikeszekely]

A bigger OLED screen is nice, but it's not really the upgrade I (and I guess most people) were hoping for. I'll probably pass for now.

[Scyla]

2 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

A bigger OLED screen is nice, but it's not really the upgrade I (and I guess most people) were hoping for. I'll probably pass for now.

For me the new stand is reason enough to upgrade. God, I hate the one on the current Switch. 

[mikeszekely]

5 minutes ago, Scyla said:

For me the new stand is reason enough to upgrade. God, I hate the one on the current Switch. 

I never use mine. It's either in handheld mode, or it's docked. I even bought a second dock so I can easily move between the TV in my bedroom and the one in the living room.

In fact, compatibility with the existing docks could be the deciding factor for me.

[Scyla]

13 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I never use mine. It's either in handheld mode, or it's docked. I even bought a second dock so I can easily move between the TV in my bedroom and the one in the living room.

In fact, compatibility with the existing docks could be the deciding factor for me.

I use mine often while watching YouTube when the only TV in the household is blocked. Or on business trips, vacations, etc.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Scyla

[azrael]

Likely a pass. New stand? Woohoo. Bigger OLED? OK. I think mini/micro LED would be better but OK. Same SOC line? 👎 Feels like a spec-bumb upgrade.

[Tking22]

6 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

A bigger OLED screen is nice, but it's not really the upgrade I (and I guess most people) were hoping for. I'll probably pass for now.

I was expecting a chip upgrade, and 4K resolution while docked so yup, color me disappointed. I use my Switch in handheld mode, a lot, far more often then docked, but this is still a pass for me. This seems like a cool mid-life update for those without a Switch entirely, not exactly upgrade worthy if you already have one. 

[mikeszekely]

11 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

I was expecting a chip upgrade, and 4K resolution while docked so yup, color me disappointed. I use my Switch in handheld mode, a lot, far more often then docked, but this is still a pass for me. This seems like a cool mid-life update for those without a Switch entirely, not exactly upgrade worthy if you already have one. 

Basically this.  If you've got the money and don't own a Switch the OLED one is definitely the one to get.  But if you already have a Switch the new screen isn't really enough of an upgrade without a new SOC.

[kajnrig]

I wonder what they would have upgraded it to, though. I don't hear much of anything about any successors to the Tegra X1 - IIRC there were one or two generational improvements and that's it? Presumably Nintendo would want something like that so as to maintain broad software compatibility.

What even is the makeup of the Tegra X1? How specialized is or isn't it such that a hardware upgrade is feasible?

And also IIRC, Nintendo specifically went with the Tegra X1 because stock of it was so high, Nvidia had produced so many chips and no one was using them, so they could be had for cheap. I don't think there's a chip in existence today that could replace the X1 and can be had for similarly cheap.

[mikeszekely]

55 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I wonder what they would have upgraded it to, though. I don't hear much of anything about any successors to the Tegra X1 - IIRC there were one or two generational improvements and that's it? Presumably Nintendo would want something like that so as to maintain broad software compatibility.

What even is the makeup of the Tegra X1? How specialized is or isn't it such that a hardware upgrade is feasible?

And also IIRC, Nintendo specifically went with the Tegra X1 because stock of it was so high, Nvidia had produced so many chips and no one was using them, so they could be had for cheap. I don't think there's a chip in existence today that could replace the X1 and can be had for similarly cheap.

They made some sort of improvement once already that improved the Switch's battery life. Even another battery bump would have been better than the exact same thing, but OLED.

[kajnrig]

40 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

They made some sort of improvement once already that improved the Switch's battery life. Even another battery bump would have been better than the exact same thing, but OLED.

That improvement was due mainly to a more efficient version of the Tegra X1 - made on a 16nm process rather than the original's 20nm. IIRC, the following year Nvidia took orders for one final run of the Tegra X1 before ending its production for good, so there's not much chance of that design moving to another manufacturing node.

Nintendo could probably get one more good battery life extension by increasing the battery size... and maybe the OLED screen is more power efficient, too, I dunno. They could also unlock more of the chip's overclocking headroom, but even that still wouldn't net the performance boost necessary to get, say, Hyrule Warriors 2 running at anywhere near a decent framerate.

[mikeszekely]

15 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

That improvement was due mainly to a more efficient version of the Tegra X1 - made on a 16nm process rather than the original's 20nm. IIRC, the following year Nvidia took orders for one final run of the Tegra X1 before ending its production for good, so there's not much chance of that design moving to another manufacturing node.

Nintendo could probably get one more good battery life extension by increasing the battery size... and maybe the OLED screen is more power efficient, too, I dunno. They could also unlock more of the chip's overclocking headroom, but even that still wouldn't net the performance boost necessary to get, say, Hyrule Warriors 2 running at anywhere near a decent framerate.

I dunno, maybe people thought (wished?) Nintendo got a brand new SoC from Nvidia?  I know there was a lot of talk about a Switch Pro using DLSS to upscale to 4K, but I'm fairly certain DLSS can't just run on any old Nvidia chipset.

[JB0]

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

And also IIRC, Nintendo specifically went with the Tegra X1 because stock of it was so high, Nvidia had produced so many chips and no one was using them, so they could be had for cheap. 

nVidia had basically designed the hardware for them. The Switch hardware was basically what would have been the Shield Tablet 2.

 

OBVIOUSLY, there's far more profit to be had as a supplier of a Nintendo console than as an Android tablet manufacturer, so nVidia was all too willing to cancel ShieldTab2 as part of the Switch deal.

Edited July 7, 2021 by JB0

[Mommar]

What if Nintendo did actually have plans for bigger things but various component shortages meant it was easier for them to do a minor refresh with parts they still had readily available instead?  I was certainly hoping for a bigger boost but I’ve got an original release Switch that is bowed and warped and this is as decent an excuse to bump up internal memory and increase battery life and screen size even if it isn’t everything I wanted.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Mommar

[technoblue]

3 minutes ago, Mommar said:

What if Nintendo did actually have plans for bigger things but various component shortages meant it was easier for them to do a minor refresh with parts they still had readily available instead?  I was certainly hoping for a bigger boost but I’ve got an original release Switch that is bowed and warped and this is as decent an excuse to bump up internal memory and increase battery life, internal storage and screen size even if it isn’t everything I wanted.

This makes sense too. There are so many firms competing for silicon with the restrictions on supply and logistics. It could be that Nintendo decided to play it safe with nVidia's SoC to avoid potential delays and have a refresh (albeit a minor one) available for the holidays.  

[mikeszekely]

56 minutes ago, Mommar said:

What if Nintendo did actually have plans for bigger things but various component shortages meant it was easier for them to do a minor refresh with parts they still had readily available instead?  I was certainly hoping for a bigger boost but I’ve got an original release Switch that is bowed and warped and this is as decent an excuse to bump up internal memory and increase battery life and screen size even if it isn’t everything I wanted.

I'm hoping this is actually the case, and maybe in another year or two we can get a real Switch Pro or even a backwards-compatible Switch 2.  But I don't see myself going for the Switch OLED.

[kajnrig]

20 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I dunno, maybe people thought (wished?) Nintendo got a brand new SoC from Nvidia?  I know there was a lot of talk about a Switch Pro using DLSS to upscale to 4K, but I'm fairly certain DLSS can't just run on any old Nvidia chipset.

Yeah, DLSS requires their tensor cores. I was under the impression that they - Nintendo - were leaning in that direction; IIRC there was some leaked developer guidance or something stating that devs should aim for 4k output, and the rumor mill at the time saw that as hints at improved hardware.

Assuming they did want to implement DLSS, that definitely would have required a new SoC. The most recent generation of Tegra has tensor cores - its GPU is Volta-based, two generations ahead of the X1's Maxwell GPU. For reference, Maxwell was 7xx-9xx cards; Volta was used in professional cards after the 10xx Pascal cards and before the 16xx/20xx Turing cards.

Alternatively, they could have asked Nvidia to, if possible, backport tensor cores to the Tegra X1... which would be a custom solution and be even more complicated and costly as using a new SoC. About the only possible positive of going that route is possibly maintaining absolute compatibility with previous Switch games/software. 

19 hours ago, JB0 said:

nVidia had basically designed the hardware for them. The Switch hardware was basically what would have been the Shield Tablet 2.

Well, kind of. Nvidia didn't make the Tegra X1 specifically for the Switch. It made it for its Shield devices and to sell to third parties, but no third parties were interested. Nintendo only settled on it because Nvidia practically let them have it to clear up inventory.

Or at least that's the story I hear.

14 minutes ago, Mommar said:

What if Nintendo did actually have plans for bigger things but various component shortages meant it was easier for them to do a minor refresh with parts they still had readily available instead?  I was certainly hoping for a bigger boost but I’ve got an original release Switch that is bowed and warped and this is as decent an excuse to bump up internal memory and increase battery life and screen size even if it isn’t everything I wanted.

That's also very possible, and it seems reasonable to me.

It's just disappointing, is all.

...then again, I haven't even touched my Switch in years, so what do I have to be disappointed about?  I'm just complaining to complain.

[azrael]

The supply constraints are likely the case, given TSMC's current fab-to-supply issues. From what I hear, the chips are being scooped up as soon as they come off the fab. Basically everything being manufactured is already allocated to manufacturers. There's no leftovers being produced.

[Mommar]

My reasoning is that's the kind of business savvy that, we gamers aren't necessarily fond of, but is the reason Nintendo is consistently the richest company in Japan.  From my perspective not getting what I was hoping for is preferable to not being to find what I want in stores.  And while Sony and Microsoft simply can't put their stuff on shelves Nintendo can and will have product out, and it will look relatively new.  They can easily snag some new customers and we few suckers (me) with old, busted systems have something marginally better to grab for.  And/or they figured out how to sell me on their old back stock before the new one emerges.  I'll just pass this one on to the Niece and Nephew then,.

[kajnrig]

3 minutes ago, Mommar said:

My reasoning is that's the kind of business savvy that, we gamers aren't necessarily fond of, but is the reason Nintendo is consistently the richest company in Japan.  From my perspective not getting what I was hoping for is preferable to not being to find what I want in stores.  And while Sony and Microsoft simply can't put their stuff on shelves Nintendo can and will have product out, and it will look relatively new.  They can easily snag some new customers and we few suckers (me) with old, busted systems have something marginally better to grab for.  And/or they figured out how to sell me on their old back stock before the new one emerges.  I'll just pass this one on to the Niece and Nephew then,.

Good luck porting all your save data, etc., from the old console to the new. Did they ever offer a workable solution for that, or is it still relatively locked down? Maybe connect the two with a USB cable, copy everything over...

[kajnrig]

Valve announces the Switch Pro

[UN Spacy]

 

[mikeszekely]

24 minutes ago, UN Spacy said:

 

I couldn't get with the motion controls the game used in it's original release, so this will be my first time playing it.

It'd be cool if Nintendo re-releases Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD on the Switch, too. I did play those on the Gamecube back in the day, but skipped the HD re-releases because I skipped pretty much everything on the WiiU.

[Scyla]

4 hours ago, mikeszekely said:

I couldn't get with the motion controls the game used in it's original release, so this will be my first time playing it.

It'd be cool if Nintendo re-releases Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD on the Switch, too. I did play those on the Gamecube back in the day, but skipped the HD re-releases because I skipped pretty much everything on the WiiU.

Windwaker is my favorite Zelda game. It has some issues, especially after you pick up the Master Sword but I would totally pick that up on the Switch. 
I still have my GameCube and the disk and the cell shaded look gives it a timeless look but it would be nice having a cleaned up version to play. 

[Mommar]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:53 PM, kajnrig said:

Good luck porting all your save data, etc., from the old console to the new. Did they ever offer a workable solution for that, or is it still relatively locked down? Maybe connect the two with a USB cable, copy everything over...

The process is fairly simple now.

Pre-ordered a B&W OLED at Walmart friday.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Mommar

[UN Spacy]

 

[Black Valkyrie]

 

https://www.siliconera.com/genesis-n64-nintendo-switch-online-debuts-in-october/

 

[Seto Kaiba]

Fired up my Switch for the first time in a while.

I know Nintendo said they were opening the gates of the Nintendo eShop to a greater variety of games including those meant for adults... but the games on offer there are 99% "Sad Trombone".  It's all shovelware, casino games, PG-13 versions of galge, and the kind of minimum-effort JRPG that was clearly expected to sell because of the waifu on the cover art.

Nice to know we're gonna start seeing Sega Genesis and Nintendo 64 games the expanded Switch Online though.  Most of the use I've gotten out of it, excl. Ace Attorney and Hyrule Warriors, has been playing old games on the Nintendo Switch Online NES and SNES emulators.

[mikeszekely]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Fired up my Switch for the first time in a while.

I know Nintendo said they were opening the gates of the Nintendo eShop to a greater variety of games including those meant for adults... but the games on offer there are 99% "Sad Trombone".  It's all shovelware, casino games, PG-13 versions of galge, and the kind of minimum-effort JRPG that was clearly expected to sell because of the waifu on the cover art.

Nice to know we're gonna start seeing Sega Genesis and Nintendo 64 games the expanded Switch Online though.  Most of the use I've gotten out of it, excl. Ace Attorney and Hyrule Warriors, has been playing old games on the Nintendo Switch Online NES and SNES emulators.

I rarely bother with Nintendo's eShop.  Funny how a company that used to restrict how many games a third party could release on their platforms because of crappy Atari games crashing the market seems totally content to let their eShop become almost an unnavigable swamp of garbage people wouldn't bother to download for free on a phone.

Nintendo still makes some of the best 1st-party games in the industry, though.  Really looking forward to Metroid Dread next week.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I rarely bother with Nintendo's eShop.  Funny how a company that used to restrict how many games a third party could release on their platforms because of crappy Atari games crashing the market seems totally content to let their eShop become almost an unnavigable swamp of garbage people wouldn't bother to download for free on a phone.

Nintendo still makes some of the best 1st-party games in the industry, though.  Really looking forward to Metroid Dread next week.

I'm kinda stuck with it, since there's just the one game store in my area is a GameStop that almost exclusively trades in XBox stuff various "geek" collectibles.

You'd think Nintendo would take the path of least resistance and offer ports of bestselling games from more recent older systems.  There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what DOES get ported to the Switch.  The occasional current-gen AAA game I can understand easily enough, but there's a surprising number of horror walking simulators from days gone by like Amnesia: the Dark Descent.  I'm pretty sure I saw the original Quake in there earlier... like, Windows 95 Quake.  

Better search and filtering functions would definitely help on the eShop.  Especially if they could put proper category and age filters in there so customers could filter out the knockoff art applications and the million-and-one iterations of "pretty girl <casino game>".

[mikeszekely]

So... Nintendo revealed the pricing for the awkwardly-named Nintendo Online + Expansion Pack, and it's coming it at $50 a year.  This is, apparently, not a bad deal if you're into Animal Crossing, since it includes the Animal Crossing DLC.  If you're not into Animal Crossing, though, I can't see paying over double the base price just for a handful of N64 and Genesis games when the base price gets you over 100 NES and SNES games plus online play and cloud saves.

Nintendo should have included Gameboy and GBA games for that price, and made sure that their entire first-party library is included.  Then maybe it'd be worth it to play all the Metroids* on one console.

*All the Metroids being Metroid/Zero Mission, Metroid II, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, and Metroid Dread, not the Prime series.  Not that I don't want the Prime games, I just expect them to show up in a Switch collection that gets a retail release.  And, apparently, a Metroid Prime Trilogy for Switch has actually been completed, Nintendo's just sitting on it until Metroid Prime 4 is closer to being complete.  Unless maybe it's just the first Metroid Prime game?

Edited October 15, 2021 by mikeszekely

[danth]

I'm not paying rent for games.

I'd pay good money for any Nintendo game collection on disk. But nothing recurring.

[Seto Kaiba]

Has anyone published a list of what all's available in the way of the N64 and Genesis titles?

There was already a Genesis emulator for the Switch that had a pretty good library behind it... so I'm hoping there's no overlap between those two.

[mikeszekely]

7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Has anyone published a list of what all's available in the way of the N64 and Genesis titles?

Yes.  At least the ones that will be initially available, anyway.  I'm sure Nintendo will add more (there's at least seven more N64 games planned), but probably as sporadically as they've built the NES and SNES libraries.

Anyway, there's nine N64 games:

Dr Mario 64
Mario Kart 64
Mario Tennis
Sin & Punishment
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Win Back: Covert Operations
Yoshi's Story

Seven more are coming, but I'm not sure when

Banjo-Kazooie
Pokemon Snap
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards
Mario Golf
Paper Mario
F-Zero X

There's 14 Genesis games

Castlevania Bloodlines
Contra: Hard Corps
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Ecco the Dolphin
Golden Axe
Gunstar Heroes
M.U.S.H.A.
Phantasy Star 4
Ristar
Shining Force
Shinobi 3
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Streets of Rage 2
Strider

Of those 14, Contra, Castlevania, Contra, Ecco, M.U.S.H.A., and Strider are the only ones that aren't on the Sega Genesis Collection.  Even then, of the remaining five Castlevania is on the Castlevania Anniversary Collection, Contra's on the Contra Anniversary Collection, and Strider* is available in Capcom Arcade Stadium.  That leaves a whopping two games you couldn't already play on the Switch in one format or another.

*Ok, technically it's the arcade version in Capcom Arcade Stadium, but as far as I'm aware the Genesis version was a pretty faithful port hampered only by the technical limitations of the Genesis hardware.

So like I originally said... online play, cloud saves, 58 NES games, and 49 SNES games for $20 a year.  And $30 more gets you 9 N64 games with the promise of 7 more, and 14 Genesis games you could mostly already play on the Switch, plus some DLC for Animal Crossing you'll lose access to if you end your subscription and you could already buy outright for a one-time $25.  I'm not sure how the accountants at Nintendo came up with that price, but I'm thinking it's probably too much for most people.