Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 26 -Finale - READ 1st POST

[Zinjo]

Who veto'd Kawamori on his original idea? Don't answer that cuz they still need to be dragged onto the street and shot.

Sponsors...OOPs! I let it slip....

[eriku]

Awesome ending to what I found to be a truly enjoyable series. I have a few questions still but they don't really spoil anything for me. Definitely want a movie.

[buglepong]

It really obvious that the Wind Stus are basically poorly written Japanese Wehraboo expies of Zeon.

No, the windies are an analogy for kawamori at the helm of macross franchise

Macross = 34 years old

Windies = live to 30 years old

Kawamori is saying he had only 30 years to make the macross he wanted.

Also the 1st NUNS/windermere war was 8 years ago. Guess what was 8 years ago? Frontier. NUNS nuking windermere is talking about execs trying to nuke frontier.

The whole thing is an analogy for kawamori vs the execs.

Edited October 5, 2016 by buglepong

[eko.prasetiyo]

so we must wait another 8 years for the next macross series?

[Seto Kaiba]

Also the 1st NUNS/windermere war was 8 years ago. Guess what was 8 years ago? Frontier. NUNS nuking windermere is talking about execs trying to nuke frontier.

The whole thing is an analogy for kawamori vs the execs.

Slight hole in your theory... Windermere's war of independence was SEVEN years before the start of Macross Delta.

[buglepong]

Slight hole in your theory... Windermere's war of independence was SEVEN years before the start of Macross Delta.

A few months doesnt disprove my theory. The timeframe pretty much lines up.

There are more references in the series that indicate a connection too

[Impreszive]

Very disappointed. That's about all I can say. The show just never hit a stride, in my opinion. Plot points with no payoff or resolution? No real motivation behind Windmere's aggression? Corruption in NUNS? Lady M? Megaroad 1?

Look, unless this is that Episode 1 Prequel kind of thing where we get pieces of an overall plot that may take time to come to fruition, then everyone that worked on this totally missed the boat with this show.

[Sandman]

They missed the boat alright. Who thought it was a great idea for a Macross show to not have any valk action in almost half of the series. To whoever decided this:

Edited October 5, 2016 by Sandman

[mickyg]

I love that image so much! Even if you enjoyed the show (and I definitely had moments where I did - a lot) it's still durned funny!

[zaino]

if only 14-25 was as exciting as 26

would have made the show a lot better

[Beltane70]

While I liked the series, I definitely didn't love it like I did the original or Frontier.

I was totally expecting Lady M to be of far more importance than they made her, and I'm still quite disappointed that they never revealed her identity.

[Whatever_Guy]

Voted neutral only ... found the ending alright, overall didn't enjoy the series as much as I did for Frontier. I think it was mostly that it didn't feel like it resolve most things, maybe that's on purpose and they'll do followup movies

[Bolt]

C'mon guys. How can there not be some kind of follow up??

Even if you haven't heard anything in the wind (haha!)

Granted the Macross trend is now 'leave em hanging'..

Again, I really want to know what the Japanese fans are saying about Delta..

Maybe there's change in the wind.( Haha,sorry can't resist.!)

😝

[Seto Kaiba]

Very disappointed. That's about all I can say. The show just never hit a stride, in my opinion. Plot points with no payoff or resolution? No real motivation behind Windmere's aggression? Corruption in NUNS? Lady M? Megaroad 1?

Let's be plain... this series didn't end, it just sort of lurched to a stop when it ran out of episodes.

[TNT1120X]

They missed the boat alright. Who thought it was a great idea for a Macross show to not have any valk action in almost half of the series. To whoever decided this:

Okay, which episode did that screen shot come from?

[Nazareno2012]

Okay, which episode did that screen shot come from?

From Episode 1, instead of Freyja doing the Walkure sign, the picture had her index fingers brushed out to make her flip the bird.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Nazareno2012

[hachi]

Just saw the last 4 episodes. First time I've set the play speed to faster on a Macross episode (that I was watching for the first time). That getting captured part II sequence was really annoying. Wasn't really that engaged in the last episode, I just felt I had to watch just to get it over with. Afterwards rewatched most of Macross 7 ending, and it was way more interesting.

(Now listening to Basara's songs to feel better...)

Edited October 10, 2016 by hachi

[Kyp Durron]

Who veto'd Kawamori on his original idea? Don't answer that cuz they still need to be dragged onto the street and shot.

^This.

I HATED Macross 7, and never thought I'd say this, but I'd rather watch Macross 7 ANY day of the week over this garbage. Easily the worst Macross series ever.

[Zinjo]

From Episode 1, instead of Freyja doing the Walkure sign, the picture had her index fingers brushed out to make her flip the bird.

Hmm, makes one wonder if that wasn't the original intent. That some dissatisfied fan would photoshop out the index fingers to be able express their rage...

^This.

I HATED Macross 7, and never thought I'd say this, but I'd rather watch Macross 7 ANY day of the week over this garbage. Easily the worst Macross series ever.

Yeah, I never thought I'd feel this way, but I do. Excuse me, I need to curl up and cry now...

[no3Ljm]

So, I finally decided to watch the last 3 episodes last night... sad to say I just wasted 70 minutes of my life watching those.

It's a shame that they went all 'Gundam-esque' on that nude-scene-without-showing-the-actual-private-parts-in-a-intra-dimensional-state-of-trance. So weird.

But yeah, still gonna get some of the DX Valks out of this series. Mainly Keith's Draken and Messer's 31. Arad's 31, probably.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah, I never thought I'd feel this way, but I do. Excuse me, I need to curl up and cry now...

Yeah, that was my reaction too... "This series was such a monstrous disappointment that it's made me look back more fondly on Macross 7."

It's a shame that they went all 'Gundam-esque' on that nude-scene-without-showing-the-actual-private-parts-in-a-intra-dimensional-state-of-trance. So weird.

At least they didn't stick us with a whiny milquetoast like Saji Crossroad or Relina Peacecraft.

[Isamu Starkiller]

I don't usually post opinions imidiately after a movie, TV series, Anime series until I digest it for awhile.

So I have had enough time....I did not enjoy this series very much, I never really got invested with any of the characters Walkure, Windermereian or otherwise. The conclusion felt hollow, the music was not good.

[NightmarePlus]

I want the people who made to give an apology to us.

I know it's wicked late, but i have a few complaints about this episode. First off, how the hell did Frejya not get hit by, not one, but the flaming wreckage of TWO Lil'Drakkens? Why not play Ikenai Borderline and Absolute 5 for the finale? Those two songs would have been perfect. Assuming all those other NUNS ships were from Voldor, i would have liked to see some Voldoran Strike 171s kicking the crap out of the Windies in space like how they did in Ep 22, although at least we got Elysion doing some work though.

[Einherjar]

So yeah, Delta had the standard Macross ending. As I said in other threads, I have a hard time believing that there's just a movie, continuation or compilation, with so many lingering threads unresolved. Have the feeling we're going to have to wait until the end of the second airing of the series to find out the future for the series. Last Sunday was episode 18 again, so that would make it Christmas Day.

One thing this episode answered? Berger's theory that music is a weapon only applies to Windermere through Heinz. Unfortunately, he, as the weapon, only figured that out after forcing someone else into the role his entire kingdom, or just Roid, was prodding him into for entire series and finally witnessing the effects. I have a hard time sympathizing with him since it appears he had a cloistered life up to now, maybe due to being treated as both royalty and a weapon. I don't know, does he have the mentality of a human 8 year old despite his short lifespan? Remember, his brother was a pilot or pilot in training and became a closet sociopath around his age. Then again, weapon.

All things considered, Ishtar learned quicker.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Einherjar

[Saruta]

I want the people who made to give an apology to us.

I know it's wicked late, but i have a few complaints about this episode. First off, how the hell did Frejya not get hit by, not one, but the flaming wreckage of TWO Lil'Drakkens?

I think that it's somewhat useless to ask why all of the Walkure survived despite death flags all over Mikumo. They survived because of RL Walkure concerts.

[hachi]

I'd be so disappointed if Mikumo dies. Her singer is the only one I like among the Walkure. Freyja's singer is ok but I wonder if she can have a successful career with her voice. Remember Megumi Nakajima? Where is she now?

[Gordon Freeman]

. Remember Megumi Nakajima? Where is she now?

She is the voice sample for a Vocaloid. However it was the 2014 Precure series that put a stop to Nakajima's carrier, nothing that can be blamed on Macross.

Hope she rebounds with her voice work for Kantai Collection.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Gordon Freeman

[Saruta]

I'd be so disappointed if Mikumo dies. Her singer is the only one I like among the Walkure.

I really do like JUNNA too. I started a thread about her but it sorta died, probably because so little is known about her.

Re Megumi Nakajima - was Precure 2014 really that bad?

Edited November 25, 2016 by Saruta

[Gordon Freeman]

I really do like JUNNA too. I started a thread about her but it sorta died, probably because so little is known about her.

Re Megumi Nakajima - was Precure 2014 really that bad?

Yes Happiness Charge did rather poorly. They tried and failed to emulate Heartcatch. (the 2008 Precure season who had Nana Mizuki as the lead)

Macross Wehraboo seems to be going the same way. Blatantly ripping off a long running franchise such as Gundam in your last episode was only going to end badly.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Gordon Freeman

[jenius]

I watched the whole series over the last couple weeks and it definitely does lose steam after the 13th episode but I didn't mind it nearly as much as others have. Would I write the whole thing differently? Yes, but some of the exposition I actually enjoyed. Here are some thoughts (and again, I just watched it one time through, I haven't studied everything).

Episode 1 felt like a test. They turned the ridiculousness up to 11 to establish that his wouldn't be a more serious Macross series for adult fans but rather something meant to appeal to a younger crowd. That said, I'm not sure it was meant for 14 year olds either... maybe something for fans that started with Macross7? It really does feel like a spiritual successor to 7.

Oddly, after episode 1 the girls felt a lot less Sailor Moon. It felt like we got less and less of the girls' transformation sequences and the mecha dancing gradually became "riding the wind" which was simply good flying. By the time episode 13 rolled around it was starting to feel like it had cast off some of the silly shackles.

There is definitely a pivot after episode 13 but it wasn't all bad to me. I really liked Frontier but one aspect that always bothered me about it was how poorly developed Macross Galaxy was as villains. Delta seems to sin in the other direction, over-developing the Windermereans. Lloyd (I'm not going to call him Roid) also bounces around as a villain. Early in the series he's cast aside for being too slow but then he rather suddenly regains favor and goes full uber tyrant. 

In the end, I am bummed because it felt like it had started heading in the right direction and then paused for lots of universe building. I thought Lloyd's attempt at the end was at least a new twist on the Macross formula and it was fun to see Protoculture playing a bigger role in the events. Had it always been intended as a 26 episode series the pacing would likely have benefited greatly.

Overall, I'd put it above MacII, Mac7, and the first Macross Frontier movie with all other series and movies above it.

Edited December 28, 2016 by jenius

[kaiotheforsaken]

So I know I'm really late to the party on this one, but I finally got around to watching Delta and I just finished the last episode. Just kinda want to post my musings here about the series as a whole and this episode.

First I'll just say that dear god Delta was a bummer. I don't mean it just sucked either, there was some really interesting things that they didn't expand on that were way way more interesting than magical girl pop group.

Some of the things I really liked were the focus on Protoculture and how it's mark is still left on the galaxy at large. I think all that stuff is super interesting and I like when Macross really looks at that stuff. Also because of my love of Zero, I can get behind the callbacks and ties to that. By extension I liked a lot of the Windermere stuff too. The characters struck me as more complex and interesting than the main cast. 

That said...The main Chaos cast, holy crap, what a boring group that was. Everyone save for Hayate and Frejya were complete throwaways. Mirage wasn't quite that bad I guess, but she was basically shoehorned into being the tag along for H&F so we could the ol' Macross love triangle again. 

I also really disliked the focus on Walkure basically at the expense of everything and everyone else. I get that music is part of the deal with Macross, but I couldn't get behind this at all. If we go with pop music, classic Minmay works best for me. Sheryl wasn't too bad either. I can dig the song of the wind and song of the stars though. The type of stuff sounds neat, works well with the Protoculture and ties back to Zero, I'd really like more music like that. But yeah, we lost a lot of character building and nearly all of the action to develop two characters who weren't very interesting and to turn every episode into an anime music video.

Other points of contention are not expanding on things like Lady M (Minmay?) Or any of the other mysteries presented. We also had a world with basically no consequences. Aside from the predictable mid show death, every "good" guy survives, the world is peachy and any bad guy of real consequence is dead. They also lumped in a ton of crap in the final two episodes out of nowhere and resolved it so fast it was basically pointless.

When the Windermereans took Ragna and we had all that crazy mid season stuff, I thought we were in for a crazy back half of the show. Oh was I wrong, they really squandered that turning point and did almost nothing interesting with it.

So yeah...Really disappointed with the focus and what was seemingly tossed aside as a result. I'll be curious to see where Macross goes from here. Hopefully the next show shifts off the music heavy focus and gives us something more interesting.

[jenius]

I think your hope about the music, while understandable to us older fans, is very unlikely. As much as we would like Macross to be about selling transformable jets, it's now more about selling CDs... but at least it's been pretty successful at that so we still get more stories where the curtain is pulled back on protoculture more and more.

[kaiotheforsaken]

I didn't mean to imply I don't like the pop music or don't want it in Macross at all...I guess I just like a better...or different balance between the typical Macross ingredients.

That said, I didn't enjoy Walkure's music as much as anything Minmay, Firebomber or Sherly sang.

[Seto Kaiba]

15 minutes ago, jenius said:

I think your hope about the music, while understandable to us older fans, is very unlikely. As much as we would like Macross to be about selling transformable jets, it's now more about selling CDs... but at least it's been pretty successful at that so we still get more stories where the curtain is pulled back on protoculture more and more.

Well... perhaps it might be more accurate to say that Macross's animation has become more about selling music, while those who want to get their robot fix are catered to by the various manga, light novel, and video game offerings.  The emphasis on music in recent Macross titles still isn't really an excuse for the mecha in Macross Delta being almost an afterthought though.  Macross Frontier was mostly about promoting the music of May'n and Megumi and it still managed to squeeze a lot of pretty epic mecha action in.  Macross Delta doesn't lack for transforming fighters, its problem is that the individual set pieces like character designs, mechanical designs, and music are great but the show's execution was an absolute disaster.  The writers screwed the pooch so hard the SPCA got involved on behalf of a strictly metaphorical dog, with pacing problems galore and an excessively large cast of shallow stock characters and expys, and the fight choreography often completely forgot the fighters could transform and left almost every dogfight with just one or two maneuvers... usually the scissors.

What it sounds like kaiotheforsaken wants is a more balanced Macross series like Macross Frontier.  Macross Delta just feels like a halfhearted effort compared to what we've had before, possibly because it wasn't the show Kawamori wanted to make.

[kaiotheforsaken]

That's basically what I'd like. I think Frontier actually had a pretty solid balance and I enjoyed it a lot. Frontier did a good job putting the music up front but still making the story really enjoyable. Most elements just felt much more fleshed out.