Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 26 -Finale - READ 1st POST

[ayaxr]

For first half gets praise not because it was great but because it ended on a high note of good things to come.

This. I was cautiously optimistic that it had finally started to get better and more in tune with what a macross series should be, even if I still didn't like the whole idol group thing... but turns out thats where it peaked.

[buglepong]

I loved it. Thought it was better than frontier or 7 overall.

It peaked early and the ending was rushed way too much, but i felt very satisfied that Freyja's arc followed through all the way to the end and Freyja x Hayate is the best Macross coupling yet.

Delta departs from the usual Macross style i would say, and I am sure this made many fans quite unhappy, but that seems to be the theme of this series: Delta means change and the winds (of Windermere) are changing.

[buglepong]

Absolutely.

Doing Mirage justice would have been enough to save this thing imo but, alas, Kawamori is senile enough to think delta is a good product.

Definitely less than 15, maybe 5 or 3, but who knows really?

Fixing the lifespan problem altogether like some theorized would have been better.

I feel Delta might mark the end of Macross franchise as we know it. A shame.

They should have just call it something else entirely.

You know the Windermereans 30 year lifespan is an analogy for the lifespan of the franchise, which is 34 years old now right?

Its not a coincidence. Kawamori was saying something.

Edited October 1, 2016 by buglepong

[David Hingtgen]

Well, that was the most boring Macross finale ever. Never before have I sat and watched "the final battle" valk manuevers, capital ships fighting, missile spam, and thought "meh". And like 90% of the battle scenes seemed to be re-renders of Frontier's battles. "We'll just swap the -25's for -31's and run it through again, nobody will notice!" And even worse, the scant few seconds of super-pack scenes we get, are mostly literally re-use from the other time we saw them.

And even the non-battle scenes were just re-hashes. Giant glowing Ranka singling DYRL in front of Galaxy? Well now it's giant glowing Mikumo singing DYRL in front of whatever-they-call-it.

[Koenig_Monster]

The "Wind" of delta smelled like a stinky fart.

[Saruta]

Yes, "breaking wind" jokes abounded...

[RedWolf]

The war hasn't ended. Much like Imperial Japan Heinz will only negotiate peace from a position of strength. After what Windermere did the galaxy would declare them enemy of all humanity alongside Macross Galaxy. Robbing people of their free will makes you enemy of everybody.

Thing is with their fleet much destroyed and being abandoned by Epsilon they are at a precarious position. The NUN won't let them have the Sigur Valens as it proves to be too dangerous.

Heinz himself doesn't have much to live for. I can see with these dangers and being enslaved themselves a Windermerean civil war could be inevitable.

The Kingdom of Wind lied to to the Windermerean people and has brought war twice to it.

Not to mention their economy is ruined.

Edited October 2, 2016 by RedWolf

[Seto Kaiba]

I've just finished a rewatch of the entire series, and I have to say I noticed something I didn't see the first time 'round.

The Macross Delta series is a really poorly-executed riff on the plot of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.

A small, elite military outfit goes rogue and tries to seize control of a remote part of the galaxy in order to unseal and take control of an ancient, forbidden technology the Protoculture originally built in an effort to undo the series of horrible mistakes that ruined their interstellar civilization... and it's up to an understaffed, undercapable private military contractor's branch office to stop their plan and prevent the activation of that technology to save the lives of billions. Naturally, activating that lost technology requires the input of a mysterious young girl who is a singer and is initially sheltered by the PMC and later captured by the evil jackass-in-chief... and is rescued from the freshly-activated evil techno-doodad shortly before it gets blown up by the heroes in a daring last ditch assault. Hell, the key planets involved are even both conveniently isolated from the rest of the galaxy by all-encompassing fold faults.

I can never un-know this realization... but at least know I know why it felt like I'd heard this story before.

[RedWolf]

I do have to wonder. This is two factions in two consecutive series that didn't get peace nor defeated utterly.

Is it possible that in a future Macross sequel they are setting up an Anti-NUN alliance with Macross Galaxy and Windermere?

Out there theory. The Protoculture faction that created the ruins, Sigur Valens, and Star Shrine became the Marduk. The lines appearing on Mikumo are sort of like those that appear on Emulators such as Ishtar.

[Gordon Freeman]

The Macross Delta series is a really poorly-executed riff on the plot of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.

Which is why I stand by the statement that an animated adaption of Macross 30 would have been better then what we got with the Gundam Age of Macross.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Gordon Freeman

[Xigfrid]

Which is why I stand by the statement that an animated adaption of Macross 30 would have been better then what we got with the Gundam Age of Macross.

I really hope they would adapt Macross 30 into a movie or a 5-6 ep. OAV. Speaking of which, is there a youtube/video link to a complete walk-through of the game from the begining to the end with eng sub ?

[eko.prasetiyo]

well I know delta wasn't so good or not as expected but somehow there's something missing. Usually this monday I will waiting for the delta subs

[asukamaru]

I rewatched the Ozma episode, thats good use of M7 music, thats a good callback to an older show.

[Seto Kaiba]

I really hope they would adapt Macross 30 into a movie or a 5-6 ep. OAV. Speaking of which, is there a youtube/video link to a complete walk-through of the game from the begining to the end with eng sub ?

That's what they should've done instead of making Delta.

That or an animated adaptation of Macross the Ride.

[Bolt]

One has to wonder if Delta is commercially successful enough in Japan to carry on the franchise into a new series. And possibly additional Delta content.

I for one am assuming so.

And I do expect a movie out of Delta.

How could they not milk it..?

[Roy Focker]

I hope it just a moderate success. Enough to warrant more Macross down the road but not enough to warrant a Delta copy cat series.

[Laundro]

The only thing I will miss about delta is seeing Redwolfs summarys a few min post airing, Roy Fockers apathy towards each episode and the weekly speaker podcast.

Hearing Renato's growing disinterest for the show week to week was rather entertaining

Other than that Delta can go dive off a very steep and rocky cliff

[arbit]

I've yet to watch the last batch of episodes, but I took a peak at the polls here: 46% negative!

I'm afraid, very afraid...

[azrael]

I've yet to watch the last batch of episodes, but I took a peak at the polls here: 46% negative!

I'm afraid, very afraid...

Might as well get it over with.

[arbit]

Might as well get it over with.

Sheesh. Is this going to be like taking a poison pill, or like taking your medicine to feel better afterwards?

[Seto Kaiba]

Sheesh. Is this going to be like taking a poison pill, or like taking your medicine to feel better afterwards?

The experience is uncannily reminiscent of having unanesthatized dental surgery done while watching a special commentary on Battlefield Earth by Fran Drescher and Gilbert Gottfried.

[Zinjo]

I've just finished a rewatch of the entire series, and I have to say I noticed something I didn't see the first time 'round.

The Macross Delta series is a really poorly-executed riff on the plot of Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy.

A small, elite military outfit goes rogue and tries to seize control of a remote part of the galaxy in order to unseal and take control of an ancient, forbidden technology the Protoculture originally built in an effort to undo the series of horrible mistakes that ruined their interstellar civilization... and it's up to an understaffed, undercapable private military contractor's branch office to stop their plan and prevent the activation of that technology to save the lives of billions. Naturally, activating that lost technology requires the input of a mysterious young girl who is a singer and is initially sheltered by the PMC and later captured by the evil jackass-in-chief... and is rescued from the freshly-activated evil techno-doodad shortly before it gets blown up by the heroes in a daring last ditch assault. Hell, the key planets involved are even both conveniently isolated from the rest of the galaxy by all-encompassing fold faults.

I can never un-know this realization... but at least know I know why it felt like I'd heard this story before.

So then Kawamori phoned in the story, showed up for the first cour and then bugged out to develop his series with the Chinese...

At first I was going to comment on my ambivalence as to whether Kawamori went all Lucas/Roddenberry or the sponsors interfered, but this revelation changed all that.

I do have to wonder. This is two factions in two consecutive series that didn't get peace nor defeated utterly.

Is it possible that in a future Macross sequel they are setting up an Anti-NUN alliance with Macross Galaxy and Windermere?

Out there theory. The Protoculture faction that created the ruins, Sigur Valens, and Star Shrine became the Marduk. The lines appearing on Mikumo are sort of like those that appear on Emulators such as Ishtar.

In a perfect world, we'd get something like that or at least a battle between the Federal NUNS and a faction supported by Epsilon and their new generation of weaponry enhanced by the Sigur Valens data.

The establishment that Epsilon makes a variable fighter with an SV designator also keeps the idea of valk on valk battles alive in the universe. It also allows a deviation in the conventional designs of valks as an SV fighter will not necessarily follow VF design specs.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[kalvasflam]

The experience is uncannily reminiscent of having unanesthatized dental surgery done while watching a special commentary on Battlefield Earth by Fran Drescher and Gilbert Gottfried.

You poor poor thing, may be it is time for that cynaide? No one should have to suffer like that

[Mazinger]

The experience is uncannily reminiscent of having unanesthatized dental surgery done while watching a special commentary on Battlefield Earth by Fran Drescher and Gilbert Gottfried.

Hahahahahaha!

Actually, that sounds fun, especially while in an altered state.

[Zinjo]

You know the Windermereans 30 year lifespan is an analogy for the lifespan of the franchise, which is 34 years old now right?

Its not a coincidence. Kawamori was saying something.

Yep. C'ya, I'm outta here!

Edited October 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[no3Ljm]

Looks like I'll enjoy watching ID:Resurgence more. Hahaha!

But kidding aside, I tried to watch the last 6 remaining episodes last night. Man, did I got so bored after the third episode.

[azrael]

Sheesh. Is this going to be like taking a poison pill, or like taking your medicine to feel better afterwards?

If it helps, you can look at the full series poll.

[Seto Kaiba]

So then Kawamori phoned in the story, showed up for the first cour and then bugged out to develop his series with the Chinese...

I'm not convinced he was ever invested in this project to begin with. IIRC we had an interview not so long ago where it was stated that the show Kawamori'd wanted to make was more or less the polar opposite of Delta. He wanted to do a show that was all VFs, no idols. What he got was a show that was very nearly all idols and no VFs.

If that's true, I have to wonder if he didn't just design a VF and then check right the hell out...

In a perfect world, we'd get something like that or at least a battle between the Federal NUNS and a faction supported by Epsilon and their new generation of weaponry enhanced by the Sigur Valens data.

In a perfect world, we'd have had a final episode that actually resolved the plot. Since there isn't a movie known to be coming, having apparently been a sacrifice on the alter of the second cour, if you don't count Roid and Keith dying then Windermere's king and Aerial Knights pulled a karma houdini. They didn't have to own up to killing tens if not hundreds of thousands of people and attempting to enslave over eight billion people (not counting Roid being set on enslaving the entire galaxy) after a series of unprovoked attacks and illegal military occupations of soverign nations. They didn't make peace, or even recognize that they made a horrible mistake in tampering with a highly dangerous Protoculture device that they knew could kill much of the galaxy's population by burning out their brains.

Windermere is something of a first... not only are they the first enemy that the New UN Government hasn't been able to make peace with at the end of some war or other, but they're also the first unapologetically EVIL adversary the setting has had. They were not redeemed in any way, really. Once the dust of battle had settled, Heinz just took his army and went home to plan his next move. No acknowledgement that this entire mess was his fault, remorse for a campaign of terrorism and murder that spanned much of the galaxy, or even a "thank you" for the Xaos and NUNS forces for stopping Roid's coup d'etat and saving the galaxy. The NUNS would be perfectly within their rights to launch their own invasion of Windermere and/or bomb the planet right out of the material universe.

You poor poor thing, may be it is time for that cynaide? No one should have to suffer like that

Nah, I'll take a miss on the cyanide tablets... but if I ever get it into my head to rewatch this show for any reason other than screen captures from the BDs for M3, I'll know it's time to check myself into the funny farm. I never thought I'd find a show that would make me think better of Macross 7.

Hahahahahaha!

Actually, that sounds fun, especially while in an altered state.

Found the masochist!

[valk1j]

OK, finally watched the whole series. Really had my hopes high for it. Was a little turned off by the initial episode but decided to go along with it. However I never felt any emotion for this series. I decided to re-watch Macross Frontier again to kind of get the bad taste out of my mouth. Realized the issues with Delta are really multifaceted.

1. Did Satelight's B-team work on this? Seems like it, the Valkyrie animation was boring, and seemed like they were just shooting at nothing. There was no sense of an actual battle sometimes. The valkyries had no weight, just seemed there on the screen. I thought Kawamori wanted air combat in this - where was it?

2. The love triangle was a joke. Seemed tacked on to say we checked that box off.

3. The Chaos group is bad, fail at everything until the end, where the enemy has to help you out to set things right.

4. Windermereans - almost zero development, Cassim was the only one who I had any feeling for at all

5. Secondary characters are flat - Frontier had development for a lot of characters. Michael and Klan (Michael's sister story), Ozma and Kathy, Luca/Nanase, Even small things with Canaria and her son, Leon and Kathy, Ranka and Brera, Sheryl and Grace - there was feeling that these characters were in a real world. Delta felt like the characters were in a bubble. I would write out Raina and Makina and Chuck and his family - too many characters no development. Johnson was a bad character - he needs complete re-write/re-do, he was actually laugh out loud bad (giant size and incompetence). Mikumo - to important to write out, but geez what a let down of a character. On the Windermere side, get rid of the twins, get rid of Herman (mix his character with Cassim), You don't need the king either, have Roid manipulate Heinz from the beginning.

6. Same bad guy master plan as Frontier is terrible writing.

7. Background music was very lacking. When Alto did something major in Frontier the music matched.

8. The story kept going back to the well one to many times...sneak onto a planet, fail, go back to space.

9. How about a Ragna based series, where the Windermereans take over and Chaos has to fight to take it back.

10. Never got the sense that Windermereans did anything, take over a planet? In what way, almost never see any troops, just a couple vid screens of Drakens.

11. The best Walkure songs, were never used during the final battle. Terrible mix of songs in the final episode.

12. Even when we got character development episodes, we jumped around to much, we can't linger on Hayate and Mirage to long, because we have to look and see what other characters are doing.

13. Berger - wtf? use 2 episodes to explain things to the stupid Chaos group, and then not be in the final episode? How does this fly? Will he play a bigger part in a movie?

14. Lady M - saving for a movie?

15. Too much talking heads episodes - really this series could have been done in 16 episodes.

I just hope that it makes enough money to warrant new Macross in the near future. I would be OK with a Delta movie, hopefully it will realize the characters better, and have a new story.

[Gordon Freeman]

It really obvious that the Wind Stus are basically poorly written Japanese Wehraboo expies of Zeon. Without any of the story crafting skills, likeability, or legitimate grievances behind them. Hell most Char clones are decent people compared to them. At least Char had a shitty enough life that explains why he why he had a case of Chronic Backstabbing Disorder and for all intense and purposes became clinically insane by CCA . The Wind Stus have no such excuse.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Gordon Freeman

[auberondreaming]

The only thing about this series I found interesting was the anger the Windermere felt about being bombed. I was finally becoming invested in SOMETHING here, and they had no resolution to that. I suppose if this is not a stand alone series, they could explore how the Windermere have now become what they hated with their sneak attack mass destruction maneuver, but let's not focus on the ONLY thing in this series that was original.

Can we PLEASE stop with the callbacks assuming Macross lives through this? Every series doesn't need a young pilot thrust into a battle who winds up in a Valk and holds a girl in it's hand in gerwalk. We don't need an ace who dies every time. We don't need a love triangle every time. We don't need a Macross level ship doing the same tactics every time. These things don't make it Macross.

The magical singing girl squad who go into battle never wound up working for me, can we remove the sailor moon aspect of that? Or give them actual combat armor and have them be a squad who sings and fights with the valks running back up? They tried that a little, but it didn't work for me at least. Perhaps their armor can integrate with the Valk and power it up, kind of like piloted fast packs.

That ending was so boring, because we have seen it over and over again, much like most of this series. Do something original!

Blah.

[kalvasflam]

Nah, I'll take a miss on the cyanide tablets... but if I ever get it into my head to rewatch this show for any reason other than screen captures from the BDs for M3, I'll know it's time to check myself into the funny farm. I never thought I'd find a show that would make me think better of Macross 7.

In comparison, 7 was much higher quality in terms of story telling, sure, parts of it dragged, but somehow I found watching Delta to be just so tedious. I'm not much of a Mac2 fan, but honestly, I'd rate Mac 2 above Delta in terms of storyline. It was compact, it didn't drag, and although it was just a rehash of the original (more or less), it's compactness made it more tolerable.

That said if Kawamori really wants to focus on fighters and aerial combat, my idea for Jenius Air would probably line up well with that concept, imagine Jenius vs Jenius (i.e. their twins going at it against each other). They can always have music in the background, ranging from Minmay, to Sharon Apple, to Mylene...

Here is to hoping the next Macross series is better designed and thought out.

[Ghostbear0]

Oh hell yeah the twins going at it with music from Mylene and Emilia! Let's do that show.

[Roy Focker]

Story we should have gotten was the one they showed in all of the flashbacks. Those parts seemed much more interesting.

[azrael]

That said if Kawamori really wants to focus on fighters and aerial combat, my idea for Jenius Air would probably line up well with that concept, imagine Jenius vs Jenius (i.e. their twins going at it against each other). They can always have music in the background, ranging from Minmay, to Sharon Apple, to Mylene...

Who veto'd Kawamori on his original idea? Don't answer that cuz they still need to be dragged onto the street and shot.