Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 26 -Finale - READ 1st POST

[kalvasflam]

Some of the good stuff!

I remember that scene, it was great. One amongest the few great fight scenes in Plus. My only complaint is: "where the hell are the scissors????"

One question, I don't know Japanese at all, but did Mirage really say: "I will not overthink my flying?" right after the three way love fest in fold space? That is just so awful; it would have been better in writing if she said nothing at all.

Oh, forgot, that happened a little with the Ghost.

Edited September 28, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Zinjo]

just commenting on this... there were a lot of unneeded things, lady M (irrelevant), creepy NUNS guys (irrelevant), evil twin brothers (irrelevant), Master Hermann Munster (irrelevant), Chuck (irrelevant), Chuck's family... did anyone ever see them again after the birthday ep (irrelevant), Marianne (irrelevant), Windermere fleet (irrelevant), Windermere mooks (irrelevant, they could've all been just Lil' Drakkens), NUNS local forces (irrelevant), Cat daddy (irrelevant), seacat (cute in the beginning, but rendered irrelevant to the series as a whole post Ragna), Ernie Johnson and the bridge crew (about as relevant as the Perry twins in Frontier), Elysion (irrelevant, I know Macross Quarter, and Elysion, you ain't no Macross Quarter)

Worst of all, those crappy Windermere songs that I have dubbed Jingle Bells and Silent Night... totally irrelevant.

Well a 26 episode show about flying valks duking it out without any purpose is equally irrelevant...

Now if you described much of what you said as incomplete or dangling story threads, I'd have to agree.

Some aspects would have to be abandoned in the interests of limited time and that isn't always a bad thing.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Zinjo

[cwmodels]

In the past few months dealing with in China, we’ve actually gotten to a point of seriously discussing the possibility of a Captain China animated series. So my contacts in Asia is in the process of shopping for an animation studio and to get a budget quote for a 1 season series. The idea and possibility of using Japanese animation studio also came up, and an industry source told us recently that most Japanese studios when comes to TV series production only prepare scripts for 2 episodes ahead of schedule due to sponsorship demands, because quite often scripts are changed on the whims of a sponsor. It can be something as simple as “you need to feature this upcoming product” or as drastic as “kill off a character to make it more emotional and get some higher ratings”. Of course I don’t know for sure if this 100% percent true for Delta behind the scenes, but it sure seems like it. This can explain why so many weird, messy, and out-of-place stuff happened in Delta since it is a heavily sponsored show.

The final episode of Delta in my opinion did put some good will back into the show, a lot of cool and interesting visuals that are definite trademarks of when a Macross series is hitting its high notes. But there are also still so many dangling loose ends, under-developed plot points, and unanswered question that cripples it from being anywhere near a satisfying ending.

Seeing how good some of the scenes are put together in this episode, I am more than certain that shoji jumped ship and phoned-in a good number of episodes during the second cor.

And how can Shoji say that he always try to do something different when so many ideas, visuals, and plot elements are copied directly from frontier’s last episode?

But then again, Seven, Frontier, and Delta’s ending plot points are all technically copies of each other:

•Big Bad betrays others bad guys for his or her own hidden agenda that somehow ties to protoculture.

•Entire Galaxy is threatened by Big Bad and super unstoppable power.

•The good guy side is on the brink of losing.

•Unreasonable and inexplicable miraculous crap happens because of singing.

•Bad guys joins good guys to fight big bad.

•Singing and lots of missiles conquers all.

•Remaining bad guys flies away.

•MEGA HAPPY ENDING FOR ALL THE GOOD GUYS!

At least in the original Macross, singing causing cultural shock is an explainable reason to how the the fight was won. All the shows ever since just goes into nonsense territory when comes to singing and winning. And do any of you ever wonder why Macross plus is better? It's because there is no falling onto the protocultule BS clutches with characters or story or miraculous crap happens to save the day for it's conclusion.

Edited September 28, 2016 by cwmodels

[kalvasflam]

Well a 26 episode show about flying valks duking it out without any purpose is equally irrelevant...

Now if you described much of what you said as incomplete or dangling story threads, I'd have to agree.

Some aspects would have to be abandoned in the interests of limited time and that isn't always a bad thing.

But I'll bet you'd watch 26 episodes of Valks duking it out vs the 10+ episode equivalent we got of meandering storylines and point less scissoring.

If you took away the irrelevant aspects I mentioned, or may be most of them, there is still more than enough material for a decent story line. They just had to expand and foucs on those parts.

[dizman]

Well that sure was an ending to a 26 episode show! It was just ok which I guess could be said for the whole Delta series. I don't think the ending really lived up to the final episodes of the other series but it still had some fun moments. It was a supercharged remake of the Mac 7 ending with less fun and more naked people.

I didn't have a bad time watching Delta and other than lady M being Minmay (probably) it didn't really trample on the rest of the series so I'm cool with this being a strange side story like Mac Zero. Well I guess it's time to re-watch the other series and wait for a new OVA or movie.

[Strumvogel]

Well I sadly predicted that the sponsors would probably ruin the show all the way back when we were just 3 eps in. Now to be fair sponsors are going to do what they're going to do but the sheer amount of them, something of which satelight proudly promoted at one time (5? or so model and toy companies alone) is pretty much their undoing. That much pressure from them is probably overwhelming.

Now if Satelight is banking on the Macross name and previous Frontier's success to cruise them to a comfortable winning position, I do think they're in for a rude awakening.

That said, got any news about the reception from Japan itself? Perhaps this is something that will be touched on in the next Speakercast. I hope so atleast. Got nothing about it so far.

[Sandman]

If there was 5 toy/model sponsors, you think there would be better mecha scenes and better capitalization of add on parts for the valks. If those sponsors are going to chime in with demands I imagine they'd offer suggestions that would help sell their products. I didn't really see that other than the needless 31J repaint for the last episode.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Sandman

[Raptor One]

I just realized I haven't even watched with subs yet. Ah well, I'll eventually get around to it.

Ever since the flashback episode I can't help but think it would have been cool if if part of this series had been about the formation of Walkure. If they had spent the first few episodes with the story they showed in the flashback episode and then had their first successful tactical concert be a nice payoff from everything that they went through before. The question of the first few episodes would have been "does this concept even make sense?" with a few promising signs and here and there but no outright successes. Then after they figure out how to make it work you delve into the mystery of the Var, reveal the areal Knights at about the halfway point as some more menacing antagonists before giving them a bit more depth right before the lead up to the finale.

Of course with this version you would probably have Kaname as the main protagonist with Arad and Messer rounding out the triangle. Freiyja and Hayate would have ended up as side characters who join up later, with their own little triangle going on in the background.

[Zinjo]

In the past few months dealing with in China, we’ve actually gotten to a point of seriously discussing the possibility of a Captain China animated series. So my contacts in Asia is in the process of shopping for an animation studio and to get a budget quote for a 1 season series. The idea and possibility of using Japanese animation studio also came up, and an industry source told us recently that most Japanese studios when comes to TV series production only prepare scripts for 2 episodes ahead of schedule due to sponsorship demands, because quite often scripts are changed on the whims of a sponsor. It can be something as simple as “you need to feature this upcoming product” or as drastic as “kill off a character to make it more emotional and get some higher ratings”. Of course I don’t know for sure if this 100% percent true for Delta behind the scenes, but it sure seems like it. This can explain why so many weird, messy, and out-of-place stuff happened in Delta since it is a heavily sponsored show.

The final episode of Delta in my opinion did put some good will back into the show, a lot of cool and interesting visuals that are definite trademarks of when a Macross series is hitting its high notes. But there are also still so many dangling loose ends, under-developed plot points, and unanswered question that cripples it from being anywhere near a satisfying ending.

Seeing how good some of the scenes are put together in this episode, I am more than certain that shoji jumped ship and phoned-in a good number of episodes during the second cor.

And how can Shoji say that he always try to do something different when so many ideas, visuals, and plot elements are copied directly from frontier’s last episode?

But then again, Seven, Frontier, and Delta’s ending plot points are all technically copies of each other:

•Big Bad betrays others bad guys for his or her own hidden agenda that somehow ties to protoculture.

•Entire Galaxy is threatened by Big Bad and super unstoppable power.

•The good guy side is on the brink of losing.

•Unreasonable and inexplicable miraculous crap happens because of singing.

•Bad guys joins good guys to fight big bad.

•Singing and lots of missiles conquers all.

•Remaining bad guys flies away.

•MEGA HAPPY ENDING FOR ALL THE GOOD GUYS!

At least in the original Macross, singing causing cultural shock is an explainable reason to how the the fight was won. All the shows ever since just goes into nonsense territory when comes to singing and winning. And do any of you ever wonder why Macross plus is better? It's because there is no falling onto the protocultule BS clutches with characters or story or miraculous crap happens to save the day for it's conclusion.

I always suspected that of the first two cours of M7, but several fanboys on this site were adamant it couldn't have been...

I have no issue with exploring the PC mythos, but I have to agree that the weaponizing of song in this series may have jumped the shark from scifi to fantasy with mecha. However, I will cede that at least they tried to explain it far more than Macross 7 ever did. Considering I see this series as the direct sequel to M7 in tone and subject matter, I am not really surprised by the product we got.

I won't comment on the "formula" since every studio has one, regardless of what country they hail from. Business graduates who run studios (sponsor groups) LOVE formulas since it doesn't rely or require creative skill. Sony's "Flow Machine" software is trying to do that for music...

OVA's and stand alone films seem to get the most freedom since the sponsor pools are smaller, but the ROI may also be smaller compared to a weekly running series.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Zinjo

[505thAirborne]

I remember that scene, it was great. One amongest the few great fight scenes in Plus. My only complaint is: "where the hell are the scissors????"

One question, I don't know Japanese at all, but did Mirage really say: "I will not overthink my flying?" right after the three way love fest in fold space? That is just so awful; it would have been better in writing if she said nothing at all.

Oh, forgot, that happened a little with the Ghost.

What are these scissors you speak of??

Amazing in that one scene you see the VF-11B use all three modes for combating the enemy.... and actually blowing them apart!

[Zinjo]

What are these scissors you speak of??

Amazing in that one scene you see the VF-11B use all three modes for combating the enemy.... and actually blowing them apart!

In space....

[Aries Turner]

I didn't understand what the glasses fellow meant by time becoming an eternity, but if time itself collapsed then I guess that explains it!

I didn't saw time as collapsing, but the loss of self as people becoming little more than expansion memory. The more of self you lose, the more your memories feel simultaneous to Roid. Windermere lives are as limited as allways, but Roid had eternities to explore in mere seconds. Or something like that.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Wow, been a long time since I last posted here. Anyways, finally watched the last episode today and I liked Frontier's final episode better, but Delta was superior overall. I had a feeling none of the action would top off Frontier's judging by the first few minutes, in Frontier we got a badass Macross Attack tag team LOL. Roid was much like Grace, but unlike Grace his methods were a bit more direct and eventually transparent compared to Grace in the TV series and Galaxy in the movies. I was expecting that the Song of the Stars would solve Windermerean life expectancies, but sadly it didn't considering how Freya more or less told Hayate to get ready for her death as they flew off. Definitely dug the VF-9 cameos, as somebody on the FB page said in regards to Lady M, maybe it's a reference to the UN Government in terms of where the capital lies/UN is headquartered much like the US government is referred to as Uncle Sam, but I'm still no satisfied. It felt like I watched the ending of the Iron Blooded Orphans' first season or even 00. I doubt the show was designed to be split into two seasons, but it would be a pleasant surprise and change my opinion if it was. An OVA detailing what happened after would be welcomed as well. It did have a Zero-like imagery at the ending, but not quite like The Wings of Goodbye movie did.

[Macross_Fanboy]

I was struck with the many similarities in the final battle to that of Frontier (which, of course, borrowed heavily from the final battles in Macross and / or DYRL)... but I was also struck by how, despite the similarities, Delta never made me care like Frontier did. I love that last episode of Frontier. Despite the flaws of the series, the last episode legit gave me goosebumps and made me care about the outcome. I even loved the resolution to the triangle- no resolution! I thought it fit Alto well, not to make a "choice" at the end; he chose the sky Sheryl and Ranka opened for him.

and yet, nothing had the power Frontier did. The feeling when Klan gave Alto Michel's rifle. When Canaria shoots the Galaxy in the "face." When SMS shows up... hell, when Bobby pilots the Macross Quarter like a Valkyrie and takes out Galaxy's Macross cannon. When Leon's ambitions are smashed. When Sheryl and Ranka unite to sing and protect the man they love. These things had emotion, had resonance. Delta, too often, just felt like it was checking things off on a big Macross list. Valkyries? Check. Music and songstresses? Check. Tenuous connections to past series? Check. Big threat only the power of love and song can solve? Check.

Windemere could have been a very interesting antagonist for NUNS... instead, they blew their wad, so to speak. Here are these people with their own Valkyries and ace pilots, a race that seems to have a legitimate claim to being the true children of the protoculture... and what did they accomplish? We couldn't really feel for them as villains, or as characters, as often their goals seemed too silly or too pointless. Brain wash, ???, profit. You could say the same for the good guys... we had too many characters to worry about, and none of them got the screen time to become interesting. Probably the only semi-fleshed out or interesting character in Walkyre was Kaname... but they never did anything with her. Freya was just so impossibly high spirited that it was almost impossible to sympathize or even like her character. Mirage could have been interesting, but largely was there just to be the girl who came in second place. Hayate could have been interesting, but we never saw much of his character beyond "I love to fly." Hell, we didn't even get an Immelman dance in the end! Mikumo was such a cipher... I don't really know why we were meant to feel for her or her plight. Humanoid music machine sings for her friends. Humanoid music machine sings for her enemies. Yes, and?

The music for the show, sadly, wasn't that great for the most part. I realize we've been really spoiled with excellent music thruout Macross' three decades, but I got into very little of the music this time around.

The character designs were very busy, and often distracting. I don't know if there's a lof of fault I can lace there; that seems to be a trend in anime and pop culture in general, and I'm cranky and old. The mecha this time around seemed decent enough... we just never got to spend a lot of time with any of them.

One plus I'll give Delta is some of the world building going on. I did find some of the new races and locales interesting.

This has been, for me, easily the most disappointing Macross to date. I wasn't a big fan of 7, either... but I feel like there were a lot of external pressures/faults on that show... and I can kind of overlook my problems, to know that, somewhere within that huge mess, there was a pretty good 20-something episode series dying to get out. Maybe I'll look back at Delta someday and think the same... but it just felt like a way to cash in on idols and idol based anime. I truly don't think anyone would give this show a second look if it weren't branded with Macross.

What you described about Frontier is something I didn't get with Delta, but I think it's partly because the sound design wasn't as moving. When Sheryl sings Diamond Crevasse as events climax leading to Michel dying are hard hitting. I smiled ear to ear at the final episode of Frontier. I got shivers when Frontier and Quarter initiate the Macross Attack and the camera zooms in on cute Rank and an extreme closeup of Sheryl's determined eyes as the music reaches its peak and transitions to Lion which stands as one of the best songs in the franchise, I didn't get much enjoyment from the songs. If I listen to Lion or Diamond Crevasse, Love Drifts Away or Try Again, I can place those tunes exactly to a scene in their respective series. I do like the Song of the Stars instrumentals, mostly because of the brass work.

The Windermere-UN aspect of the story to me seemed like they tried to make it like a EFSF-Zeon affair, but wasn't fully realized and we actually come know great characters coming from Zeon that we can sympathize with or at least fully understand their motives such as Char's revenge against the Zabi's or Kamille's angst with the Gryps War as more of his friends are killed.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Macross_Fanboy

[kalvasflam]

I have to say that I like the music from Delta, but that's about the only thing. During the last set of 13 episodes, not much in the way of new songs either.

Fanboy is right though that the music in Frontier has more impact because it is combined with more effective visuals.

[Aye Aye]

Fanboy is right though that the music in Frontier has more impact because it is combined with more effective visuals.

Frontier has better music because its composed by probably one of the best in the biz with Yoko Kanno at the helm. This thing was sunk when they did the idol group concept without bringing her back.

[kalvasflam]

Frontier has better music because its composed by probably one of the best in the biz with Yoko Kanno at the helm. This thing was sunk when they did the idol group concept without bringing her back.

Ok, there is that too... but hey, even I can learn to like J-pop

[Dangard Ace]

Watched Delta final last night.

Glad that's over with. It's like a soufflé. Meh start. Got better. Completely deflated.

Then I rewatched the last few episodes of Frontier. Felt so much better afterwards.

Voting with my wallet for a better product next time around official English translations or not.

[Axelay]

I haven't commented on a single episode until now, but man, am I disappointed. This whole series was just a humongous "meh." Am I wrong in being sick and tired of the recycling of so many of the plot elements of so many previous Macross series? For God's sakes, give us something new. I despise that as time goes forward, so many Macross characters are becoming younger and younger and have less experience in their designated roles. Isamu was a talented and reckless hotshot *military* pilot. How are we expected to believe that a little kid like Hayate has any piloting experience or sense of aerial tactics whatsoever? This character has no appeal to me in any capacity. Shin started out as a pilot before learning how to fly a Valkyrie. Who in the hell knows how Basara learned to fly, but I have no problem in believing that he's got more talent than Hayate - even if he's using one of the goofiest control schemes imaginable.

I'm almost saddened to think now that for as much as I disliked this series on the whole, I'm *still* going to end up buying Messer's VF-31F... and I already know that I like the YF-30 infinitely more than the VF-31. It really frustrates me how I feel like the first episode of the series might have had some (hidden) potential to become interesting, but the whole thing completely flamed out early. This series was hands down my least favorite of all of the Macross series.

[Kelsain]

I, also just watched last night. Thought it was an ok ending for the series we got - it was just an overall meh series.

There's a lot that's already been said that I agree with, so I won't retread.

What I will say is:

White Drakens looked awesome

I have 0 interest in buying any of the toys for this show - even without the preorder madness. I might get a 1/72 VF-31, cuz it's a neat design, but I won't do it as a Delta Squad VF.

I felt like the songs in the second half of the show were a let down:

They didn't introduce many new songs in the second half. The epic moments for Mikumo on the cat-planet & at the end just used the Ending and Opening credits songs that we'd already heard.

Love Thunder Grows was awesome, but never appeared elsewhere. Almost the same with Ikenai Borderline. Granted, Frontier did this too, with Infinity...

And I know that Frontier used Lion in it's final confrontation, but the Absolute Zero OP song has been disappointing ever since episode 14. It didn't work for me.

But speaking of songs, I have some rambling thoughts about Ai Oboeteimasuka:

While Frontier used it as a thematic turnaround from DYRL, here it seems to be the Song of the Stars. Although, I think it would've made more sense to have the music be the same, but the words would all be in the PC language; rather than a different tune with a few recognizable phrases. After all in DYRL, Misa (somehow?) translated the words into Japanese, but the music was found on Bodolza's ship.

Perhaps the (retconned) reason that the song affected the Zentradi so significantly in DYRL is that it was intended as an override song. So, the lyrics & song were kept on hand for the local cluster's Star Singer as a failsafe. Now, in this case we have a full-powered Star Singer using the song inside a special fold-wave amp that can use it to link minds across the galaxy. But, without that "stage,"maybe it's possible to use it it directly override attacking Zentradi, or other rogue PC sub races.

Over the series, I've felt that there has been a connection between the Windemeran wind singers & the Mayan wind priestesses. It seems both are descended from direct Protoculture blood and have significant fold receptor capabilities.

I've often thought (without any official backup that I know of) that the Mayan island chain was the wreckage of a city/colony ship like Altira. So, perhaps PC colonies had this song around in a "break glass in case of Zentradi" setup, where a powerful singer could use it to turn the tide. Minmay just didn't have quite the fold receptor power, or maybe the right language, to fully take control of the Zentradi fleets.

[Aries Turner]

After all in DYRL, Misa (somehow?) translated the words into Japanese, but the music was found on Bodolza's ship.

Wasn't Altira, the PC ghost undersea city?

[Chronocidal]

What you described about Frontier is something I didn't get with Delta, but I think it's partly because the sound design wasn't as moving. When Sheryl sings Diamond Crevasse as events climax leading to Michel dying are hard hitting. I smiled ear to ear at the final episode of Frontier. I got shivers when Frontier and Quarter initiate the Macross Attack and the camera zooms in on cute Rank and an extreme closeup of Sheryl's determined eyes as the music reaches its peak and transitions to Lion which stands as one of the best songs in the franchise, I didn't get much enjoyment from the songs. If I listen to Lion or Diamond Crevasse, Love Drifts Away or Try Again, I can place those tunes exactly to a scene in their respective series. I do like the Song of the Stars instrumentals, mostly because of the brass work.

The integration of the music and plot/visuals was something Frontier absolutely nailed. In my case, I don't think even the final episode matched up to the full-on wham at the end of episode 6. SMS readies up to go rescue the Galaxy fleet, and Alto drops by the concert hall to give Sheryl back her earring, not knowing if he'll even come back. But she tells him to keep it, with the typical "I want this back" line, even after her near panic trying to find where it was earlier. Then the concert opens with Diamond Crevasse, played over the SMS deployment, and after learning the lyrics to the song, this scene is just so much to take in, it gets to me every time.

Her singing it again acapella in the shelter as all hell breaks loose later on was similar, and the second movie probably had the best use of Northern Cross possible when she starts singing it over the burnt out ruins of Frontier's city. The series finale was amazing, so much rolled up into the music and visuals, and it only gets better if you realize exactly how well the lyrics go along with what's happening. The final bit where they interweave Lion and Ai Oboeteimasuka is just so good. The people in charge of Frontier just had a great grasp of how to integrate the music and action

Delta did have a few moments like that, but I don't think they were quite as well planned, or as powerful, though I also don't know the lyrics to the songs well enough to know if they help that. Two that stick with me are the scene with Freyja singing to knock the 171 pilot out of his mind control, and Kaname singing for Messer in episode 13. The one with the 171 pilot was probably the strongest moment in the series really. The callback to his own kids trying to save him with the same song earlier in the episode really made it a powerful scene. If only the rest of the series had been able to build up that kind of impact with its songs.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Chronocidal

[Strumvogel]

I have a friend who's not really a fan of Macross and watched Delta because he thought the music was good and the story was passable. When he got to the end of the last episode, and I was actually chatting with him online at the time, he just went "WTF?!!"

Pretty much says it all really.

[Chronocidal]

I need to watch the last two episodes tonight, but don't know what I really expect. The whole thing up to episode 13 was great, but then it's like the tension and plot fell off a bus somewhere.

I've been trying to decide why I feel that way, and maybe it's just that the stakes were raised past the point of believability? You suddenly have an enemy that's conquered an entire region of space by flat out mind controlling everyone until they fall all over each other, but they did it in such a way that it feels there's really nothing at stake at all, because, "Oh, if we bomb this ruin thing, everyone goes back to normal and we're all ok."

Meanwhile, as much hatred and ire was generated over the shipping war in Frontier, this is like the complete opposite. And sadly, it's also nowhere near as interesting to watch, because there's really no one and nothing to root for, because the ending is so obvious. The way they made the triangle "different" in Delta was really just to not have one at all.

[Macross_Fanboy]

The best time they used music was when Chaos and Windermere went at it when Ragna was being invaded after Walkure's stage survived a direct hit. Freya leaping into the air and singing while Hayate fought Keith. I wonder how the music would have turned out had Yoko Kano, or my new favorite, Hiroyuki Sawano worked on the music. The best singing voice though is whoever does the songs for Mikumo, it's the most May'n-like.

[Zinjo]

I need to watch the last two episodes tonight, but don't know what I really expect. The whole thing up to episode 13 was great, but then it's like the tension and plot fell off a bus somewhere.

I've been trying to decide why I feel that way, and maybe it's just that the stakes were raised past the point of believability? You suddenly have an enemy that's conquered an entire region of space by flat out mind controlling everyone until they fall all over each other, but they did it in such a way that it feels there's really nothing at stake at all, because, "Oh, if we bomb this ruin thing, everyone goes back to normal and we're all ok."

Meanwhile, as much hatred and ire was generated over the shipping war in Frontier, this is like the complete opposite. And sadly, it's also nowhere near as interesting to watch, because there's really no one and nothing to root for, because the ending is so obvious. The way they made the triangle "different" in Delta was really just to not have one at all.

Keep in mind that episode 13 was supposed to be he cliff hanger ending to the TV series, followed up by a movie climax to the story.

I was hoping that Ai Oboeteimasuka was indeed the antidote to the mind control, as stated, a fail safe measure. What bothers me is all the universe building, but no insights as to what the hell the Segur Valens and the Star Singer were intended to be. Why the Windies were created and of course the insulting bait and switch regarding the Lady M question...

Were the Valens, Star Singer and Windies a weapon system that sparked the PC Civil War or at least a game changing weapon? It has come up twice now. The idea was first introduced in Frontier and the Vajra hive mind, where Grace and Galaxy tried to co opt that mind for their own nefarious ends.

Now we have Delta, which exploits the Var Syndrome or perhaps an inherent gene, that seems to have been around for far longer than the exit of the Vajra, into a mind control system. If that is indeed the case then perhaps the reason why the Windermier were found so far from the galactic core along with the Sigur Valens and the Star Singer is that they were at a base of operations or weapons development test site on the opposing side in the Civil War. One side was creating the Evil Series weapons and the other was creating the Windermere and the Star Singer to weaponize song. If this is an inherent gene in all PC creations, it would undermine the loyalty of even the Zentradi with their handlers. A project ultimately abandoned when the PD became a galactic threat.

It may also start to explain the way in which the PD were able to control the soldiers of the SA and subsequently the Varuata forces.

That would be very interesting if it is true!

Edited September 30, 2016 by Zinjo

[Heatwave]

Hmm. I might have to check out Macross Plus, as that clip alone looks way better than anything in Delta.

[Kelsain]

Hmm. I might have to check out Macross Plus, as that clip alone looks way better than anything in Delta.

Yes, yes it is. And yes, you should.

That clip is only in the 4 episode OVA, and is one of my favorite moments in the entire franchise - cementing the 11B as my favorite Valkyrie.

The movie adaptation of the story is a tighter narrative that, unlike the Frontier movies, overall follows the same path as the OVA series.

[Lorindor]

This whole show was a trainwreck. The story felt like the worst parts of Macross 7 was crammed into a watered-down version of Macross Frontier, sprinkled with tired, reused ideas from Macross 30. Sure, all Macross shows and movies have had some flaws, but I was able to forgive most of them. But in Delta, bad ideas and bad execution of nearly good ideas were everywhere... Without the Macross name stuck on, I could disregard Delta as just another crappy anime show. But under that brand it's just inexcusable. Such a disappointment...

I still don't get the praise the first half tends to get. Yes, it was a bit tighter and more stuff was happening than in the second half, but the it was still plagued with most of the same flaws. I remember all the nonsensical plot points, like how Var syndrome was triggered by magical baking soda...

In the end, I am sure I will never see this show again - a verdict I have only given to FB7 among the Macross productions before - and I will try my best to forget that this story was ever was part of the franchise.

[dreamweaver13]

Sigh. I suffered through 26 episodes of this, and the only bright spot I will remember from this is the first on-screen actual confirmation that Megaroad 1 disappeared near the center of the galaxy 51 years ago.

So yeah. What a waste.

[Scyla]

I liked it a lot. I think the main problem of the series is the lack of good story writing and pacing.

For me the best parts are the characters. I liked characters in Delta the much more than the cast from Frontier.

I would really like to know why one of Master Hermanns runes was cut off. Oh well maybe in the movies.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Scyla

[Chronocidal]

So, watching the last episode.. am I the only person who had flashbacks to Final Fantasy X when the fleet went kablooie?

But yeah.. yay for naked mind control neural tentacle networking. Honestly, the ending felt like a direct mashup of Macross 7 and Frontier, right down to Freyja struggling to sing to knock people out of their stupor.

Which, ok, frankly? Do we have any proof that they aren't THE EXACT SAME THING?

Think about it. The Varauta drained the spiritia of their captives directly, and turned them into zombie soldiers. Is anything that happened in Delta different, besides the method of delivery? Macross 7 used a direct mind linkage/drain, while Delta just used a wide broadcast system. And they were both defeated in the exact same way. Main difference seems to be that the Varauta lived off of that neural energy, while Roid just got off on backseat flashbacking everyone in the universe at once.

Anywho, series is over, it had its high points and low points, but I thought the ending at least sort of mostly tried to wrap the important threads up. Windermere is still probably messed up, but at least Heinz got a taste of what it feels like to actually fight a war (if you can even call that fighting, and not mass murder).

Frankly, all I'm left with is questions about what the Protoculture intended to do with all the nonsense they made, or what the point of it was. As goofy as some of the stuff in Macross 7 was, it actually did a fairly decent job of explaining why old Protoculture bioweapons were suddenly assaulting the universe. Same for Zero actually. This just didn't bother trying to give a reason for anything.

Maybe the Star Singer was just actually one of the Evil series who never fell under the control of the Protodeviln?

Music-wise though, I did love the piano version of the DYRL theme. The Mikumo version though, that was interesting. Really makes me think that the version from DYRL may have been only a partial recording that was filled in by human songwriters. Come to think of it, when the SDF-1 did start broadcasting it without lyrics, Minmay was only singing a small part, which was the only piece Mikumo actually sang, if I remember.

[Roy Focker]

For first half gets praise not because it was great but because it ended on a high note of good things to come.

[Ghostbear0]

My theory is that the star singer, sigurevalens ,structures combo was a last ditch kamakazi anti protodelven, supervision army super weapon they were relived to not to have to use. You know since using it would effectively be mass suicide to birth a new God.

[SpacePirateNeko]

I'm glad they didnt reveal Lady was LMM or something...no need to drag her into this mess.

Really there was just no sense of desperation in this show, the overarching conflict just seemed silly. You never cared enough for anyone to care if they died beyond whether it was going to fit the macross trope or not.

Making these stories that take place in small corners of the galaxy is really cool... 7, F etc but once you make it this Galaxy wide thing it kind of dilutes the impact of just how immense and mysterious our galaxy is. The earth colonists could not have really seen more then 1% of the galaxy yet even with current tech.

Really largest issues with this show..its just a sign of the times. Modern anime in general...convoluted storylines that are purposefully overly grandiose without the character or wolrd building to support it...and of course...in 2016 you have to end up with the underage girl ( pls drop the technically middle aged stuff, shes a kid). mature love interests were big in the 80s, macross , maison ikkoku, orange road etc....its just not the cultural trend anymore.

I thought F did a good job of combining the old with the modern....this show just swung too far in one direction.

Edited October 1, 2016 by SpacePirateNeko