Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 25 - READ 1st POST

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah we just need a certain someone to come back and defend delta saying we are not the target market thus we have no right to complain about the lack of mecha action, bad pacing and coherent plot.

Recent sufferers of drill-related head injuries is an awfully niche market to target...

[kalvasflam]

OK, time to wade into Episode 25 of Super Dimension Disgrace: Macross Delta.

... and we're back at RaguNyanNyan for some reason. Why the hell aren't they listening to the flight data recorder from Wright Immelmann's VF-22 in, say, the conference suite aboard the Elysion?

Reina, of course, conveniently was able to salvage and repair the recorder to gain access to the recording. The NUNS clearly knew what Windermere was planning and wanted to destroy the Protoculture System before it could be used as a weapon. Once again we're left with Xaos as the slow children of the galaxy while the NUNS and Aerial Knights are the competent ones. Why, again, is anyone hiring these clowns to do ANYTHING? It seems almost like the arrogant and dismissive treatment of the NUNS earlier in the series and in Frontier is coming back to bite them in the arse.

This is gonna be a talking-heads episode isn't it?

We're back to the goddamn galaxy parallel thought plan? This is the laziest f*cking show...

The Star Shrine looks like it's begging for someone to jokingly photoshop a Brazzers logo onto it... who took the description "ancient Protoculture shrine and superweapon" and decided "distended anus is a perfect look for that"?

Even the Aerial Knights are starting to question Roid's megalomania... but it looks like Heinz is stepping up to back Roid, even though it'll mean mass murder at best. Why is it this show's characters keep gleefully jumping back and forth across the moral event horizon?

Oh crap, another New UN Spacy fleet and this one's armed with dimensional weapons. They're going to get curbstomped without firing a shot again, aren't they?

Once again, Lady M and Xaos are doing the stupidest thing possible. Instead of working with the NUNS to resolve the problem as directly as possible, they're going to let thousands and thousands of soldiers die for the sake of their own vanity and try to intercept the enemy forces headed to Ragna instead... when they have a 0% success rate. Honestly, as often as Berger praises Xaos for doing stupid crap, I'm now utterly convinced he's taking the piss out of them and they're too thick to notice.

Wait, didn't Berger just contradict himself? Lady M has been actively researching song as a weapon since the First Space War... but only appeared in 2059? The writers are getting forgetful or Berger's taking the piss.

Replacing all of the gear from Epsilon will take ten years of Xaos's operating budget? Wow. They dug themselves a REAL deep hole. Maybe that's why Windermere had such an easy time of jamming Walkure's gear... they probably got the specs right from Berger.

They built Hayate a new VF-31J? WHY?

Yep, and there we go. Mikumo sings her song and the NUNS forces poised to attack Windermere all obligingly commit suicide. It's official, this show is worse than Macross 7 could ever hope to have been. The writers responsible for this garbage should never be allowed to work in the industry again.

If there'd been an episode as bad as this atrocity before Ep13, I would've started to cancel my blu-ray preorders. Too late now, I suppose. I can only hope Big West will not compound the mistake called Macross Delta with a movie. Burn it and salt the earth, and hope the next Macross series is written by someone who isn't a drooling moron.

No really, Seto, tell us how you really feel... don't hold back.

Didn't I suggest waiting until next week so you only have to puke once.

Edited September 20, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Scream Man]

i dunno, Ive been back on board since around Ep20 (Whenever it was Mikumo got hurt). Yeah its a pacing mess, but it's a decent ride.


i gave it to 2 friends who have never seen Macross, and they love it.

[505thAirborne]

Yeah we just need a certain someone to come back and defend delta saying we are not the target market thus we have no right to complain about the lack of mecha action, bad pacing and coherent plot.

Since this is called Macross Delta that means the "Target Market/Audience" is for Macross fans.... not people who have never ever seen any of the other Series before.

[Sandman]

I can't see how they can possible wrap this series up in one 20 min episode. Are we even going to see some crazy mecha action that rivals frontier's final episode. I'm kinda doubting it. It will suck if they pull a to be continued in a movie that takes over a year to come out.

Also I not sure how I feel about this megaroad 1 revelation. Normally I would be exited about something like this but this is the series they choose to pull out that card? Especially as a last minute plot detail that came out of the blue. I was never into this lady M mystery. Theres really no one safistfying ahe could be. Now it looks like they pointing her to be Minmay which I just can't see. She comes back from megaroad and starts up Xaos that operates on the fringes of the galaxy. It would've made more sense if she appeared at the end of frontier.

[SuperHobo]

This episode was no where near as bad as some people are making it out to be. Go watch season 2 of either Infinite Stratos or Psycho Pass and after that every anime seems much better by comparison. The moment with Hayate and Freyja looking over the letters was really sweet. I did find the NUNS blowing themselves up kind of funny. I'm just going to enjoy the rest of the ride. It's a shame Kawamori was not doing the storyboards for the entire series. The flight school / air show competition pitch for macross could have been neat in the right hands.

[azrael]

And the thumb goes down. Nice moment with Frejya and Hayate, but that was it. The only bright spot in a sea of talking heads and what the hell happened to the animation in the middle? Seriously, who the hell did they farm that sequence to?

Really, what does revealing who Lady M do for this story, NOW? Does it help defeat Winderemere? No. Does it rescue Mikumo? No. Does it magically give them a freakin army to take to Ragna? No. That one got blown up. Does it help our cast resolve their current predicament? No. Does it help anyone? No. Was it just random sh*t mouthed off by a sales guy? Yes. Other than that, they could have just left it alone. And they should have. Don't bring in some random callback character just to save the show.

And let me reiterate my point from several episodes ago. If they brought that whole fleet through the fold gate, this who situation would have been over. DONE. But noooooo, now there is no fleet.

And Ketchup boy? You are now responsible for this. Your planet should be nuked. Just like Mr. LensCrafters™ and Keith "I'm not a Stark" Windermere. You need to die. There is no redeeming quality to you now.

The flight school / air show competition pitch for macross could have been neat in the right hands.

Who ever veto'd that idea should be shot.

I took it as Wright lied about the turbulence to take a route that hit the side of the mountain away from the city to minimise casualties. This led to him being intercepted which caused NUN's to take the stick and beeline towards the target. I think this explains where the footage they showed comes from one of the interceptors. So NUN's dropped it before he got shot down.

You're right, but the alternative would be somehow Roid or Garmia or some Windermerans accessed the controls of the VF-22 and took over.

At this point, I'm chalking it to horrible writing. Because any further reveals would just be pointless, if we believe the old sequence, Roid/Keith were both there. Could be that both of them got shot down by Wright; What doesn't make sense here is that if I'm assigning someone to drop an MDE, I don't care how good a pilot he is, he'll have escorts going in... even if it means I strip every single fighter from every single mission. If the target was indeed SV, it is basically the most important mission of the war, why would NUNS only assign a lone fighter to make the sortie. Makes no sense. NUNS taking control also doesn't make sense either because they completely missed the target. It was essentially the height of stupidity.

I will share my thought about this later.

[cwmodels]

They built Hayate a new VF-31J? WHY?

So they can use stock footage from previous episodes!

[cwmodels]

Who ever veto'd that idea should be shot.

The series director Kenji Yasuda admitted he and producer Eguchi Kouhei vetoed the idea in this interview:

https://karice.wordpress.com/2016/05/29/p509/

and if you read the interview again now you'll find a lot of what he says is pure bullshit when compared to how everything ended up.

[Heatwave]

I'm so exhausted by this series. I've been trying to like the second half but it's so draining. I'm honestly considering not ordering the remaining 5 blu ray volumes. In fact I regret buying the first 4. I wish I had hunted down all the Frontier blu rays instead.

Like, ANOTHER info dump? Sure it was only in the first half but still! It's right before the finale!

And Freya's troubles continue to pile up each episode. From dead parents to escaping a forced marriage to failing walkure to traitor to yada yada, ENOUGH already!

What could have made the war feel like an actual galaxy spanning war was the possibility of large NUNS fleet battle, and they quickly destroy it. AGAIN. It sucked when Keith and Heinz did it and it sucks again when mind controlled Mikumo did it too.

Also, god damn am I sick of Mirage getting brushed aside to the curb. She was supposed to be one of the 3 lead characters and has been given nothing. Sure Herman's advice was nice and all last episode, but we've only got one remaining episode left and whatever achievement she has in ep 26 will feel like an asspull.

God this series is just so frustrating!

[trojan_gambit]

Shame on Arad,despite him being a pilot, it's MakiRei who have the brains to pickup VF22 recorder.

Double shame on him, despite him being the higher rank, Reina asked Hayate's permission to play the record.

I don't understand how Heinz control Star singer which in turn mind-control NUNS to suddenly trigger the MDE.

Why not like :

Heinz : Rudanjal rom Mayan

Mikumo starts singing

Hearing the song, the NUNS get off their chair & start dancing naked.

I really want to know the fate of Megaroad-01, but if the writing is as bad as Delta, they better leave it as mystery.

As for Lady M candidate, other than Misa & Minmay, could it be Miku Ichijo ?

[Ghostbear0]

So for me the biggest elephant in the room is why didn't the NUN's fleet defold right on top of Ragna? And if something stopped that why didn't they imidiatly start vomiting foldbooster DE carrying fighters to do that. That fleet shouldn't have been in the cluster more than a minet or so before the first DE detonated.

[Roy Focker]

Heinz, Roid, Berger and the Knights totally deserve to die. The willingly used the var. A mind control that sends people on killing sprees. They did this long before they declared war. They willingly use weapons that kills thousands in instant without a second thought. Maybe you can justify that it is a war and the NUNS is a legitimate target. What about the civilian victims of the var?

I so want this series to end with Hayate going nuts and taking all of the Knights out in a brutal mecha fight. Freyja frees Mikumo who yells a sonic blast that explodes Heinz and Roids heads. There's no way to end this mess in 20 minutes. Instead I'm afraid the series may end with a big singing-sing love feast with Heinz and Walkure. Maybe Roid will die. Heinz and the rest of Knights will just learn the errors of their ways once singing heals their planet, ends their aging disease and brings love to everyone.

[Aries Turner]

First things first: although I dislike this episode, there is nothing wrong in it for a kid show. Bad guys may have second thoughts but it is their final decision to remain bad guys what really counts. Good guys are into good deeds. Shady characters remain being shady. Plot holes are everywhere but a kid is just happy ignoring those and making 'oh's and 'ah's and feeling fuzzy for Freja. But not only kids: look up there. It is an undeniable fact that even in this forum this talkie of an episode is at a technical draw about being likeable or not. A *TALKIE*.

My prediction for last episode were ten minutes of talkie *AGAIN* and 10 minutes of hyperfastmelee. I am not so sure any longer. As much as I enjoyed Frontier last two episodes grand finale, I recognize it could be somewhat difficult to follow, jumping locations and talking about what is happening. Maybe this is again a two episodes finale, with all the explaining in the first part. I hope so. The final piece appearing on Ragna in last episode is also a spoiler about using stock footage to fill the 20 minutes, having original animation or not. As cheap as it may be, seeing Elysion yet again rising from the sea and firing is a scene worth seeing twice. So much effort in it for only a viewing. I don't really like the idea, I am just saying it wouldn't be unwelcome.

Also, although I would like to see an armored VF-31J, at this time window in Macross it makes no sense. It is VF-19 tiny fast packs times again. VFs are so pumped up in base configuration there is only need for helluva missile carriage capability, not armor. Besides, armor means nothing in this show: a single SV-262 volley destroyed an entire, fully functional, Gitmo in episode 1. Pinpoint barriers or bust it is.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Aries Turner

[azrael]

So for me the biggest elephant in the room is why didn't the NUN's fleet defold right on top of Ragna? And if something stopped that why didn't they imidiatly start vomiting foldbooster DE carrying fighters to do that. That fleet shouldn't have been in the cluster more than a minet or so before the first DE detonated.

Fold faults surrounding Windermere prevent craft from folding directly into Windermere territory. Which makes the NUN fleet approaching by sub-light even dumber. As I said, a fleet should have gone through the fold gates and attacked. But that idea has now faded away. No point dwelling on it now.

edit: Sorry, read that as Winderemere. No idea why they didn't go to Ragna. It would have made more sense than a head-on fight to Windermere.

[TehPW]

Shame on Arad,despite him being a pilot, it's MakiRei who have the brains to pickup VF22 recorder.

Double shame on him, despite him being the higher rank, Reina asked Hayate's permission to play the record.

I don't understand how Heinz control Star singer which in turn mind-control NUNS to suddenly trigger the MDE.

Why not like :

Heinz : Rudanjal rom Mayan

Mikumo starts singing

Hearing the song, the NUNS get off their chair & start dancing naked.

I really want to know the fate of Megaroad-01, but if the writing is as bad as Delta, they better leave it as mystery.

As for Lady M candidate, other than Misa & Minmay, could it be Miku Ichijo ?

I think she asked Hayate because it would be hearing his father from the grave. So it was a act of kindness that she did ask.

I know the lot of state side folks seem to be MEH about SDD:MD but what is the general opinion of actual Japanese target audience (or should I say, Asian?)

[azrael]

I can't see how they can possible wrap this series up in one 20 min episode.

There's no way to end this mess in 20 minutes.

Well, it's gonna happen whether you think it can or cannot.

[Seto Kaiba]

No really, Seto, tell us how you really feel... don't hold back.

That much profanity would swiftly earn me the ire of the moderators.

Didn't I suggest waiting until next week so you only have to puke once.

I'm of the school of thought that it's better to get something you're dreading out of the way as soon as possible. I can honestly say I haven't been quite so dissatisfied with an anime series since Talos talked me into Stratos 4.

The one good thing to come of Macross Delta for me is that it's made Macross 7 a much more appealing series by comparison. 7 might have had a main character who was a complete and utter pillock, but it had a reasonably logical plot progression that felt like the show was building to something (and it did). Macross Delta doesn't feel like it's building up to anything except an unseemly rush to tie up loose ends before the episode count runs out.

i dunno, Ive been back on board since around Ep20 (Whenever it was Mikumo got hurt). Yeah its a pacing mess, but it's a decent ride.

i gave it to 2 friends who have never seen Macross, and they love it.

I suppose if one went into Macross Delta with no prior experience with Macross adjusting their expectations, the series could be mistaken for an utterly mediocre idol anime.

If you've calibrated your expectations based on previous Macross shows, then it's just a train wreck.

Well, it's gonna happen whether you think it can or cannot.

I think that may depend on the distinction between:

"The series will end."

and

"The story will end."

We know that we're in the home stretch in terms of episode count, so we know the series will end.

Will they manage to scrape together a natural and satisfying conclusion for the story in the time they have left? I'm betting "No".

So the series will end, but the story will probably just sort of stop.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[squaresphere]

Got a negative vote from me for continuing the bad writting and straight pandering with the Mega Road 1 reference.

As others have said, Berger straight contridicts himself about Lady M founding Xaos and the transmission after the Vajra war. Honestly, if this was "good" writing it's to indicate his full of lies.

Beyond that it feels like Epsilon has been leading Xaos by the balls the whole time and honestly, keep them retards around to deflect all of their shady deals. In a weird way it seems like they're poised to win regardless of the out come. Hell at this point I'd be way more intresting in a side story about Epsilon making the whole Starwind Sector look like fools.

Everything was throw away plot cliches with the minor revolation that Wright was actually spy (attached to what NUNS org?) being an ok plot point.

For the offical record I place Delta on the a rung below Zero. Both had cool concepts but Zero actually had tighter writing some how :/

[Zinjo]

Like DYRL in reverse?

Hmm, what if DYRL was actually the antidote to the Star Singer Song of Control and even the Var and NOT just a PC pop song? Then we'd be full circle...

Edited September 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Got a negative vote from me for continuing the bad writting and straight pandering with the Mega Road 1 reference.

As others have said, Berger straight contridicts himself about Lady M founding Xaos and the transmission after the Vajra war. Honestly, if this was "good" writing it's to indicate his full of lies.

Beyond that it feels like Epsilon has been leading Xaos by the balls the whole time and honestly, keep them retards around to deflect all of their shady deals. In a weird way it seems like they're poised to win regardless of the out come. Hell at this point I'd be way more intresting in a side story about Epsilon making the whole Starwind Sector look like fools.

Everything was throw away plot cliches with the minor revolation that Wright was actually spy (attached to what NUNS org?) being an ok plot point.

For the offical record I place Delta on the a rung below Zero. Both had cool concepts but Zero actually had tighter writing some how :/

If Lady M is who I suspect she is then I am not surprised she would bring in lost causes to run her PMC.

Epsilon will always win since they are the quintessential war profiteers, playing both sides of any given conflict.

[Chronocidal]

For the offical record I place Delta on the a rung below Zero. Both had cool concepts but Zero actually had tighter writing some how :/

Zero had much better writing up until we somehow lost an episode's worth of material after #4, and it became a minefield of plotholes and deus ex mecha. Even after that though, the crazy flippity mecha-jet combat action was still top notch (lame villain deaths not withstanding).

It's kind of sad, but I think our best hope for getting a satisfying resolution at this point is for someone to recut and re-voice everything after episode 13 into an entirely new story.

[Graham]

I've been a Macross fan since 1982. In the last 3+ decades I've steadfastly loved and supported the franchise, even and especially the red-haired step child's of the franchise; Macross II and Macross 7.

But honestly speaking, for the first time ever since I fell in love with Macross, I feel no compelling or urgent desire to watch this latest episode of Macross Delta

Sure, I'll watch it eventually, but it's not like in the past where I'll use any and all methods to watch a new episode as soon as I can.

[asukamaru]

I've been a Macross fan since 1982. In the last 3+ decades I've steadfastly loved and supported the franchise, even and especially the red-haired step child's of the franchise; Macross II and Macross 7.

But honestly speaking, for the first time ever since I fell in love with Macross, I feel no compelling or urgent desire to watch this latest episode of Macross Delta

Sure, I'll watch it eventually, but it's not like in the past where I'll use any and all methods to watch a new episode as soon as I can.

I feel the same, and i have the same background, Robotech (yes yes i know) aired in France when i was a child.

I still remember when frontier aired how i was waiting each week eagerly for the next episode, and all the discussions on the forums... Im a lurker usually but this time i felt so... empty about delta, i need to participate little, catharsis i believe:p

[Laundro]

I've been a Macross fan since 1982. In the last 3+ decades I've steadfastly loved and supported the franchise, even and especially the red-haired step child's of the franchise; Macross II and Macross 7.

But honestly speaking, for the first time ever since I fell in love with Macross, I feel no compelling or urgent desire to watch this latest episode of Macross Delta

Sure, I'll watch it eventually, but it's not like in the past where I'll use any and all methods to watch a new episode as soon as I can.

Graham i feel exactly the same way and could not of said it any better.

No one remembers a boring show but i will never forget the cheese that Macross II and 7 gave us.

Shoji clearly doesn't care about Delta and guess what... neither do most of the long standing supporting fans.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Laundro

[DJ_Convoy]

Like DYRL in reverse?

Well, a particular song was playing in the background as they combed thru them...

[Zinjo]

I feel the same, and i have the same background, Robotech (yes yes i know) aired in France when i was a child.

THAT is remarkable that RT would air in France before Macross, considering France and Japan have always had a close relationship with respect to anime shows airing in that country.

[Saruta]

Neutral vote. Some very good ideas; some not so good ones; execution mostly disappoints, except that one Hayate-Freyja scene, and even that is, I think, underanimated.

Still not sure what happened to Wright Immelmann. OK, he saw his VF-22 controlled remotely - and exactly how did he know he was now going to die? Was a poison injected into him, slow-acting enough that he could say a few words? He could not have been caught in the MDE explosion, as his body was found in the plane - the MDE would have left the plane and body unrecoverable.

Still no resolution on how the VF-31s came t the rescue in the last episode. Who controlled them?

Separate negative point: they had a *perfect* setup for Reina kissing Makina. They could have confirmed the yuri without affecting the age rating of the series (like, have them pull faces away from each other when Hayate enters, without detailing the actual kiss). They chose not to.

Lady M being Minmay would give a great inworld explanation of why Xaos is a train wreck. (Her being completely over her head). It would not, however, redeem many of the problems of the show. They do have an excellent layout of characters - and waste most. Freyja does get her development; to a degree so does Hayate; very belatedly so does Mikumo; but I'd love to know WAY more about the other three Walkure, and Arad, and Messer, and the darned Knights.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Saruta

[Zinjo]

Shoji clearly doesn't care about Delta and guess what... neither do most of the long standing supporting fans.

I believe Kawamorisan has moved on kids. It's been a good ride for him, but I see no more passion to tell anymore Macross stories. This is not a bad thing. New blood, fresh ideas are clearly needed moving forward. I expect he'll always be willing to design new valks (it is his passion afterall), but telling more stories in a universe that seems to bore him now, I doubt it.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[Gerli]

Guys, about this part from Berger speech:

They say that at the end of the Vajra War, Chaos intercepted a transmission from subspace.

It's frequency was the same as that of the 1st long Distance Colonization Fleet's flagship the Megaroad01, that went missing fifty years earlier

I heard that the person called Lady M made their debut around that time as well.

The last part: I heard that the person called Lady M made their debut around that time as well.

It's VERY ambiguos, at least in spanish. is he talking about fifty years earlier or at the end of the Vajra War?

[asukamaru]

THAT is remarkable that RT would air in France before Macross, considering France and Japan have always had a close relationship with respect to anime shows airing in that country.

True, there were lots of contacts between France and Japan at the time and most of the animation was "respected" (well city hunter and hokuto no ken are quite special issues in that regards, but long story off topic). Usually we had around 4 hours of anime everyday on the first channel, sometimes more, Robotech was bought by the fitfh channel to try to compete with the first one, they usually had more US cartoons. To my knowledge Macross never aired at the time. "Japanimation" was huge. Lots of Franco/Japanese productions too. France was the first foreign market for animation, i guess i got my weakness for nekomimi from that period

AAhhhh blissfull days

French op of robotech:

Sorry

Edited September 20, 2016 by asukamaru

[Aries Turner]

Most of Europe had contacts in the late seventies and early eighties with Japan anime industry, and even some kind of cooperation, as series made with German, Italian or Spanish cooperation were also aired elsewhere. However, most imported anime productions used the American cut and dubs expressly made for kids, so it is not that strange that RT arrived earlier. Or arrived at all: I have no notice other than those English dubbed unedited DVDs of any airing of Macross outside Japan.

Have not found the German company not the Italian one (I was thinking about Marco, which is not, and another one about kid roman gods) but the Spanish one, BRB, is responsible of these two:

Little El Cid no Bouken (Sorry, have not found any version dubbed in anything but Spanish or Japanese)

Wan Wan Sanjuushi

Edit: I made a mess and included Canadian and Taiwanese co-productions.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Zinjo]

True, there were lots of contacts between France and Japan at the time and most of the animation was "respected" (well city hunter and hokuto no ken are quite special issues in that regards, but long story off topic). Usually we had around 4 hours of anime everyday on the first channel, sometimes more, Robotech was bought by the fitfh channel to try to compete with the first one, they usually had more US cartoons. To my knowledge Macross never aired at the time. "Japanimation" was huge. Lots of Franco/Japanese productions too. France was the first foreign market for animation, i guess i got my weakness for nekomimi from that period

AAhhhh blissfull days

Sorry

Well growing up in Canada I got to see many anime shows in French. Harlock and Cat's Eye come immediately to mind.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[asukamaru]

Cat's Eye !

My first love :3

Most of Europe had contacts in the late seventies and early eighties with Japan anime industry, and even some kind of cooperation, as series made with Italian or Spanish cooperation were also aired elsewhere. However, most imported anime productions used the American cut and dubs expressly made for kids, so it is not that strange that RT got earlier. Or got at all: I have no notice other than those English dubbed unedited DVDs of any airing of Macross outside Japan.

I think you are right, i guess it was easier to shop in the US than directly in Japan.

[kalvasflam]

I believe Kawamorisan has moved on kids. It's been a good ride for him, but I see no more passion to tell anymore Macross stories. This is not a bad thing. New blood, fresh ideas are clearly needed moving forward. I expect he'll always be willing to design new valks (it is his passion afterall), but telling more stories in a universe that seems to bore him now, I doubt it.

Meaning, it is time to sell the franchise to Bandai just like Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney. This might get us a better Macross series.

I think they should've just stuck with the ten year cycle for the series, 2016 is clearly two years to early to have released Macross Delta.