Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 24 - READ 1st POST

[Product9]

Fact is that No one tried to stop anyone from jumping nor firing.

Well, that was sort of my point. Because...

they couldn't openly oppose Heintz's decision. All I'm saying is they don't seem too broken up about their rivals escaping to fight them in the air once again. Except for Bogue, anyway.

Yeah, you're hoping for way too much.

I know, but while we're waiting I might as well hope.

[Einherjar]

This would have been a good opportunity for Roid to make a grand spectacle of putting the son of Wright Immelman to trial and death if only he didn't have Mikumo. Oh well.

RedWolf might be right, the Windermere is really foolish to ultimately get themselves judged Bird Human style because of Roid's obsession. The NUNS, and now Epsilon Foundation as well, must have known that already to not really give a damn about the war or this part of the galaxy all this time. I think they only cared about the technology the kingdom helped develop to both control and exploit the Var Syndrome.

Also turns out Windermere proved Sara Nome's worldview as wrong.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Einherjar

[Roy Focker]

Neutral Vote

Stuff happens. There's story, action and good animation this time.

This episode feels like proper build to a climax episode. The build up from the past 10 or episodes was pretty bad. If this episode 24 was the first episode you saw you'd be tempted to go back and watch the rest of the series. The pacing of the whole Mikumo plot wasn't handled that well. Can we just erase the last 10 episodes?

The VF-22 legs were removed. Because we don't want to animate it transforming.

Why didn't they turn their VF around during the rescue and shoot the helpless Knights?

In naked singing dreamland you still get to keep your glasses. That's good news. It would totally suck to be in naked singing dreamland and not to able to see everyone else's nakedness in naked singing dreamland.

[guyxxed]

So...

what was the thing that appeared after Mikumo sang, and where did it appear? At first, I thought it was on top of the Sigur Valens, but then the very next shot showed the SV looking the same as always. Ancient Evil Engine of Destruction seems a good guess for what it is, but nobody else seemed to notice it at all.

[squaresphere]

Negative vote, such sloppy writing.

Sure that went about how I expected. But man there was such sloppy and contrived writing in this ep

• Burger finds the other half of the Xaos team without a hitch: Oh we made your equipment so we're tracking you (like we've been from the start but it's too late for you to do crap about it now *evil laughter*
• BUT as a reconciliation gift Epsilon has made the VF-22 flight ready: What's that you say? Why didn't any of the Windemere's stop us from working on the "Wings of the Demon" even though everyone knows it should just be a non functioning exhibit? Oh we just told them their wind was calling for dinner so we were left alone
• Hayate: I will try to assault everyone with my cuffed hands and head BUTTS! Oh wait these are super soldiers, maybe they'll get tired from all the beatings they're giving me.
• Super soldiers? Wait I'm wrong. These royal knights and body guards can't hit 3 humanoid shaped targets that are running at a normal pace IN STRAIGHT LINES with automatic weapons no less.
• LOL WHUT??? Ok so you're telling me the VF-31's infiltrated so deeply they were able to avoid all search parties and sensors to end up RIGHT NEXT to the castle, below their defensive AA net... WTF if the Sigs could do that ON AUTO PILOT why leave the FAWKING PLANES?!?
• Xaos re-enforcements... how... what.. That makes no sense. So you're telling me Xaos had a squad of VF-31a's, escape shuttles and Monster's hanging out near the fold gate this WHOLE time just waiting on MAYBE a gate would be opened... EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS NEVER PART OF THE PLAN?

UGGG. I mean if they're going for this shortcut writing why not go ahead and fold in the SMS movie fleet RIGHT NOW.

Too many coincidents for my liking.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

So...

what was the thing that appeared after Mikumo sang, and where did it appear? At first, I thought it was on top of the Sigur Valens, but then the very next shot showed the SV looking the same as always. Ancient Evil Engine of Destruction seems a good guess for what it is, but nobody else seemed to notice it at all.

The new piece appeared over the piece of the SV that the SV left behind on Ragna.

[trojan_gambit]

I'm tired hearing Bogue's yelling in the last 2 episodes.

Really wished Arad would shoot him down this time, but didn't happen.

Where are the evil twins during the trial scene ?

the combat is still the same reluctant engagement, where neither sides throw hard punches, only poking each other.

[Kelsain]

Ah yes, because we all remember that happened, 11 episodes ago on a planet we haven't even seen since. Sigh.

Anyone want to bet that the next episode starts with everyone talking on the bridge of the Elysion?

[Einherjar]

So...

what was the thing that appeared after Mikumo sang, and where did it appear? At first, I thought it was on top of the Sigur Valens, but then the very next shot showed the SV looking the same as always.

The head. Sigur Valens is the Windemere equivalent of the Bird Human from Macross Zero. Mikumo, an equivalent to Sara Nome, is supposed to go inside it and judge the entire species.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Einherjar

[Ghostbear0]

Ah yes, because we all remember that happened, 11 episodes ago on a planet we haven't even seen since. Sigh.

Anyone want to bet that the next episode starts with everyone talking on the bridge of the Elysion?

I'd say about 40% chance of that 35% starts in The throneroom/bedroom 15% to the shrine of time 10% to anything else.

[Kelsain]

Back in Ep 18, when Mikumo went all super-powered, a circle of lights was shown powering up. I noticed at the time, that this was not the same as the fold quartz artifact that Heinz sings into. I figured it would come back later.

Looking at the screen grabs on Macross Delta's unofficial FB page, the "head" or spleen - whatever - looks to have this circle at the center. Hmmmm...

[Product9]

The VF-31's active stealth system must be pretty good.

I also figure technology hasn't really proliferated through Windermere, since on the whole the place looks pretty archaic.

About the VF-22, honestly, I'm more surprised it has weapons. I gather the weapons it used were the kind that don't take "ammunition" per se, but still... to have working weapons on a display piece is quite surprising.

But, I'm willing to accept it. Why? Because we got to see a freaking VF-22 flying, man. That was great!

Also, I'm pretty sure the reason Arad didn't do this, or Arad didn't do that, was because he was being shot at by AA emplacements and his chief priority was protecting Kaname and the others. I'm still not clear on how that whole rescue went down, but even if we don't get clarification it was a cool sequence and I'm happy it happened.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Product9

[kalvasflam]

The bigger question is why he bothered to use the VF-22 in the first place when he had a perfectly usable VF-31, presumably within the sound of his magical voice. My only guess is that his Sig didn't have enough room for all three Walkures. But hey, Kaname could've ridden on his lap while the VF-31 picked up one Walkure per hand.

I can only suppose that the VF-31 is able to pick up exactly the triangle because they have some type of weird neural interface with the planes... otherwise, the triangle would've splattered on the bottom of that mountain... of course, then it doesn't explain Arad's need to live the good ol' days in an last generation fighter.

Also, makes me wonder who exactly is Makina riding with nowadays? I presume it used to be Messer, but since Messer is gone, Makina has no more Valk ride any more.

Edited September 14, 2016 by kalvasflam

[daflip702]

Well, that was sort of my point. Because...

they couldn't openly oppose Heintz's decision. All I'm saying is they don't seem too broken up about their rivals escaping to fight them in the air once again. Except for Bogue, anyway.

Keith status with Ketchup Boy holds weight to oppose. None of the AKS reactions indicate relief either.

We won't know for sure until something is revealed(most likely not).

Original Main point, Hayate and Mirage Blew it. Im wtih Squaresphere, too many coincidents and sloppy writing for this episode and the series.

[Product9]

Looking at the strafing scene again, were those shots coming from the VF-22's gunpods?

So, did it have ammo loaded as well, or what? Someone with more knowledge of the VF-22's weapons help me out here.

[Mazinger]

Looking at the strafing scene again, were those shots coming from the VF-22's gunpods?

So, did it have ammo loaded as well, or what? Someone with more knowledge of the VF-22's weapons help me out here.

Subs say that ammo was conveniently loaded. Berger for the win!

[Marzan]

So does Lady M appear before the end or do they save her for the movie version?

[Ghostbear0]

Honestly as goofy as the VF 22 being ready is the Sigfrieds just kinda showing up is what killed me. Why not let Arad catch them then rondevue with their planes.

[Product9]

Subs say that ammo was conveniently loaded. Berger for the win!

I don't recall seeing that anywhere in the subs I watched. I checked the scene where Berger was showing them the VF-22, but didn't see anything about ammo. Was it somewhere else that I forgot about? Or are there different subs?

Though, if Berger really went to all that trouble, I wonder what his reasoning was. There was no way he could have known that far in advance that the Delta team would need an escape vehicle and/or distraction. Maybe, seeing as how things with Windermere were going sideways, he prepared the VF-22 as an escape route for himself in case he got into trouble?

So does Lady M appear before the end or do they save her for the movie version?

Lady M might stand for Lady Movie. A personification of the upcoming movie version that will undoubtedly meddle with the plot.

Honestly as goofy as the VF 22 being ready is the Sigfrieds just kinda showing up is what killed me. Why not let Arad catch them then rondevue with their planes.

Well, the VF-22 in question had no legs, so that might present a problem for that scenario. Can a VF-22 hover without its legs? IIRC at least some of the thrust from the main engines is directed downward in GERWALK mode.

Really, the YF-21/VF-22 is one heck of a robust vehicle.

[azrael]

So does Lady M appear before the end or do they save her for the movie version?

I'll contribute to your drinking game by saying, she'll appear as a chair and and arm sitting at a desk holding some trinket. Down that bottle of vodka if we see that in episode 26.

Guess I should do my sit-down viewing of this episode later. Haven't even had time to do a quick-viewing.

[Kelsain]

Honestly as goofy as the VF 22 being ready is the Sigfrieds just kinda showing up is what killed me. Why not let Arad catch them then rondevue with their planes.

Yeah, that would've been cooler.

Arad shoots out of castle & takes out AA guns.

Starts swooping toward H, M & F.

Then H tells the girls to jump

Arad matches their velocity & opens up the 22's belly doors, as the other 3 singers hold on tight

He scoops up H & F, but Mirage has drifted too far away!

Nicely mirroring Ep 13, F uses her rocket skirt to catch M & get her back into the 22, as Arad pulls up just before they crash

All this could take place in like 10-15 seconds & it would've been great!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Kelsain

[Ghostbear0]

Honestly I was expecting Hyate to do his solo jump see the weepy girls start on their walk to the end only to have Hyate reapeer standing on the shoulder of the gerwalked 22. If course that was raw and expecting the passengers stuffed in the internal middle bays instead of having the legs cut off.

So you'd have Hyate on top them a shot of Arad with a big crap eating grin as he hoses the windys with the energy weapons. Wich the knights would superman dodge but would take out the mooks then the Gila jump on and in and they fly off to the sights under fire.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[Raptor One]

Lady M might stand for Lady Movie. A personification of the upcoming movie version that will undoubtedly meddle with the plot.

Hopefully less of a meddle and more of a complete overhaul

[Zinjo]

The head. Sigur Valens is the Windemere equivalent of the Bird Human from Macross Zero. Mikumo, an equivalent to Sara Nome, is supposed to go inside it and judge the entire species.

Wouldn't that be a neat twist! Windermere, you have been judged as wanting, prepare to die....

Oh, by the way. With respect to the valks appearing without an EX Suit. Hellooo, fingernail computers....McFly, Helloooo..*knock, *knock

It would be a weak explanation, but hey we are used to weak from this show by now...

[Ghostbear0]

It's more how did they sneak past the windys and if they could do that on auto pilot why the he'll did they leave them behind?!?!

[Product9]

With respect to the valks appearing without an EX Suit. Hellooo, fingernail computers....McFly, Helloooo..*knock, *knock

I suppose if Walkure can control the multidrones with gestures of their arms and hands (and likely a mental component), then maybe the pilots can also do likewise with their fighters.

Given the already established tech that made up the main control system of the YF-21, I wouldn't say that's too far-fetched. What with the implants and all.

As for how the VF-31s avoided the patrols and whatnot, I guess the active-stealth system that has been on Valkyries for a while now, paired with careful maneuvering between concealment. As for why they left them behind, that I don't know. They should have just dressed the VF-31s up like Windermere soldiers. Nobody would have known.

Ps: I wonder how many references to Back to the Future this thread will have by next week's episode. I, for one, hope the number is high.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Product9

[Saruta]

This is the kind of scene you'd actually like to see in the show.

Just a 30 second scene with Berger telling Arad "I fixed it, she's ready to fly!"

Not much to ask for is it?

This just shows why it's dangerous to comment without the subs. Very nearly the exact scene was present. (He used "tuned up" according to the subs).

I am somewhat baffled as to how the VF-31 rescue worked. But if remote control itself is present (do hope they explain it), perhaps I see why they could get them to fly now but not use them originally. Perhaps they banked on Keith being pretty much the only competent person there. So, while the Knights were searching for them - no-fly. But once the Knights are safely on that platform, Hayate could get the stuff flying. Still not sure how, though - I did not notice him fiddling with anything.

(Perhaps he did not? Perhaps Makina/Reina did, and he just spotted them, and before that moment he was hoping to repeat the Ragna wind stunt? Nope - rewatched, he seems to know it from the start. He also told Mirage to take care of Freyja, likely meaning Mirage either knows, or he just expects her to handle the jump better and steer Freyja. Then there is the exchange of nods with Mirage - they both know? The VF-22 was obviously a surprise for him, he was awaiting the 31s... but if they all have such remote control why did Arad not use his?)

Also in the trial, according to the subs, Heinz asked why they fought, not being from the cluster. Somehow none of the "accused" reminded him that he has declared war on the entire Galaxy. Sloppy writing? Or was it clear in the original Japanese that he meant "why they took up weapons way before he declared that war"?

Also, any idea who are the boys in red and blue around 2:50?

Also, no, Roid is not a child abuser. He believes Mikumo to be a revival, not just a clone, of the Star Singer - and the Klaatu Barada Nikto thingie seems to prove his point. This sort of thing is not really in the genes? or is "genetic memory" established canon in Macrossverse? I can't seem to remember people exhibiting it to such a specific degree - special abilities, yes, but not words or concepts.

Roid is, however, one hell of a hypocrite. Bind her shibari-style, then pretend to worship her.

Speaking of special abilities, I really do wonder what would happen if Sheryl Nome were to land on the island of Mayan on Earth. Would the stones fly at her singing?

Speaking of Klaatu Barada Nikto - this might be a direct quote and in this way an SDFM reference. SDFM had quite a few Star Trek references and I think the occasional Star Wars one. Quoting classic SF movies was at the time a Macross staple, but I think it dies out by Frontier. Perhaps this is a revival? (Perhaps someone at the studio is reading this and laughing his/her arse off, chuckling "they finally noticed?" in Japanese)

Oh - and my vote was positive. Not perfect, but I wish every episode was at least on this level of good. You can;t have every episode at ep13 level, probably.

I liked the way Kaname started using the drones offensively. "Let's get serious", Kaname style.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Saruta

[505thAirborne]

This just shows why it's dangerous to comment without the subs. Very nearly the exact scene was present. (He used "tuned up" according to the subs).

I am somewhat baffled as to how the VF-31 rescue worked. But if remote control itself is present (do hope they explain it), perhaps I see why they could get them to fly now but not use them originally. Perhaps they banked on Keith being pretty much the only competent person there. So, while the Knights were searching for them - no-fly. But once the Knights are safely on that platform, Hayate could get the stuff flying. Still not sure how, though - I did not notice him fiddling with anything.

(Perhaps he did not? Perhaps Makina/Reina did, and he just spotted them, and before that moment he was hoping to repeat the Ragna wind stunt?

Also in the trial, according to the subs, Heinz asked why they fought, not being from the cluster. Somehow none of the "accused" reminded him that he has declared war on the entire Galaxy. Sloppy writing? Or was it clear in the original Japanese that he meant "why they took up weapons way before he declared that war"?

Also, any idea who are the boys in red and blue around 2:50?

"This just shows why it's dangerous to comment without the subs. Very nearly the exact scene was present"......

While granted this was subtitled my point was I still would have preferred a quick shot of Arad & Berger in front of the VF-22, then telling him "yep, she's airworthy, armed... I fixed it." Again, not much to ask for vs. getting a Back to the Future II moment or Bogue being a never ending douchebag.

As for you being baffled on the VF-31 rescue, that is simply called bad, sloppy & lazy writing/planning. With two episodes left I am simply watching to see they how they end it. At this point abandon all Hope for answers to questions. If you (all of us) actually get an answer I'm calling it a bonus!

[Negotiator]

i'm watching this for the lore now. gave up on engaging story telling a long time ago as well as any good valk action.

[David Hingtgen]

I'd take bad valk action at this point, so long as they showed some transformation in doing so.

[Einherjar]

Wouldn't that be a neat twist! Windermere, you have been judged as wanting, prepare to die....

Look familiar?

The Bird Human needed a body, head, and a Mayan Island priestess to activate. Roid just got a Star Singer who summoned a head-like structure from the super dimension directly on to the Sigur Valens, which he wants to use against the entire galaxy. But her singing in the vicinity of Protoculture ruins only affects Windermereians. And the only redeeming value of their species as a whole throughout the war has been Freyja. The NUNS really don't need to do anything at this point.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Einherjar

[Roy Focker]

Walkure are singing in their underwear with holographic clothes. I guess that could work in a climate controlled space ship. Windermere on the other hand is an entire planet that seems to only have one season - Winter. How are they not freezing to death?

[treatment]

Walkure are singing in their underwear with holographic clothes. I guess that could work in a climate controlled space ship. Windermere on the other hand is an entire planet that seems to only have one season - Winter. How are they not freezing to death?

Law of Anime #34:

• Law of Probable Attire

[azrael]

Neutral, with the thumb twitching in the downward direction. Only because stuff happens.

My thoughts:

-As I said last week, the VF-22 was a plot device. Other than that, it really had no purpose. Arad could have accomplished the same thing with his VF-31 and taken out both AA turrets. And since the '22 only had minor wing damage, it could still be flown (provided that it would be in a straight line) so crashing it seemed like a waste. Frankly, my curiosity with that VF-22 wouldn't be with the fighter but with the flight data recorder. If the FDR was untouched, then that would be the useful. But alas that '22 is no longer necessary for the story so I'll forget about it.

-Bogue is pretty much like us. Can we get this over with? I'm surprised they didn't get Bogue to leave the throne room with his outbursts.

-Mirage v. Hermann. The old man might die in the cockpit like Qassim did.

-Chuck and the gang coming out of a random fold gate. I touched on this already. They should have sent a larger force from the start. They had the element of surprise and they let that go to waste.

-So Roid was reviewing Kumo-Kumo all night. Was he doing anything else? Cuz the lady is in bondage and not just handcuffs like the love trio. I thought it was just last episode but she's still in the bondage this week.

-And now Frejya has eczema. Perhaps this is Protoculture's cruel joke to Windermerans. If ya sing or light up those fold receptors, ya die. Joke's on you!

-I get the feeling Roid is misinterpreting all of this. Since Delta is suppose to have a "team"-aspect to the series, I get the feeling it should be "Star Singers". Plural. One Star Singer will not produce the results he was expecting. Or something like that.

[Nazareno2012]

Walkure are singing in their underwear with holographic clothes. I guess that could work in a climate controlled space ship. Windermere on the other hand is an entire planet that seems to only have one season - Winter. How are they not freezing to death?

They actually wear transparent suits as well, and I think it goes with a temperature regulation mechanism.