Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 23 - READ 1st POST

[Zinjo]

* This is not a sneaking mission.... it's picnic.

It was a picnic mission? THAT explains a lot!

[cwmodels]

Well... Didn't think this episode was as bad as some of the previous one. But still, it's not much to go on. I don't mind if there is no Valk action if the story is intriguing and the character are developing, or vice versa - more action less talking, but there is none of that. The love triangle is barely there after 23 episodes. No kissing, not even hands-holding.

They set me up in the beginning with dancing robots, and aerial stunt sequences, and upbeat concept stuff. And now there is no trace of it... The series has drifted so far from when it began.

[Raptor One]

I've been a fan of Mac II since day one.... it is not perfect by any means but still fun to watch, Whatever you do, do not watch the Dubbed version. Subtitled only!

Haha yea, I'm gonna go ahead and watch it this weekend I think

They set me up in the beginning with dancing robots, and aerial stunt sequences, and upbeat concept stuff. And now there is no trace of it... The series has drifted so far from when it began.

Well they did warn us that the tone would change drastically

[Seto Kaiba]

Well they did warn us that the tone would change drastically

Did they? I thought they only warned us that the love triangle was going to be done differently... (and by differently, I suppose they meant "not at all").

[Einherjar]

I would like to point out that Walkure and Delta squad now have a better track record compared to Warera, Loli, and Conda when it comes to infiltration missions. One successful recon and liberation of a planet against petty theft.

[cwmodels]

Well they did warn us that the tone would change drastically

When did that happen?

[Raptor One]

Did they? I thought they only warned us that the love triangle was going to be done differently... (and by differently, I suppose they meant "not at all").

When did that happen?

I can't point to sources, but I remember people in the know on this forum citing interviews where the creators stated the tone of the series would shift drastically. But that was stated to be from episode to episode, so I was jokingly referencing that as them warning us about the dip in quality.

[dreamweaver13]

23 episodes in, NOW they finally decide to develop Mikumo's character??

Jesus christ, where is this going?

Ok time to backread.

[dreamweaver13]

Guess I'm one of the few that want to see Keith die, not be Brera Sterne v2.0. I find nothing redeeming about any of the Knights. And Keith being willfully ignorant of Roid's plans ("I'll go where the wind takes me.") doesn't jive with me.

Me, I want them all (windermerians) to die, cause they are really an annoying race to me, with how their officers/royalty are portrayed.

Yes, even Freyja. Because her death would make a dramatic ending which might redeem this series a bit, and of course because I predicted it earier.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

I can honestly say that I havent been this dissapionted in a series with the Macross name since Robotech.

I was looking forward to this series,but.....

[JB0]

So... them Draken guns blew some pretty big holes in the ground. Good illustration of the "Valk guns ain't just throwin' lead" issue.

[nexxstrait]

Frontier had (in part) the same problem for me: a lot of cool characters badly underdeveloped. Compared to Delta, however, they seem to come straight out of a Shakespeare play.

This new Macross installment is a strange beast, the lack of battroid action (or any action) and bland "bad guys" don't help, but I'll wait until the final episode to make a clean judgement.

Obviously, if the incredibly cool mercat from earier episodes resurfaces, I would be unbearably glad

[Sildani]

Unlimited alien technology, and not one 262 has a passive IR tracker? That'd have found 8 warm bodies against cold terrain reasonably quickly.

Character development for Bogue, Mikumo, and Hayato. Way too late though.

The VF-22 is sexaaaaaayyy. Best part of the episode.

[Kelsain]

Do you think they're even going to make it back to Ragna by the end of this show? What ever happened to our suspicious NUNS officer? They really built up Hayate's dancing in the first 5 eps - where did that go?

Sigh, I really enjoyed the first half of this show, and was really excited to see where it went after episode 13. Well - aside from the repetetive aerial combat. Maybe we should have known when they rolled out the new, snoozefest OP.

I'll stick with it until the end to see what happens, but it's definitely my least favorite Macross series. I've watched all the others multiple times, with varying degrees of enjoyment. I MIGHT give Delta another chance as a marathon series - it could hold up better without having to wait a week between episodes. But that will largely depend on he ending we get.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Kelsain

[Scyla]

Now I remember where I've seen Arad before:

[jenius]

I remember the early quote saying this series would play with tone from episode to episode.

[treatment]

I remember the early quote saying this series would play with tone from episode to episode.

it seem that this series' episodes got progressively tone-deaf...

[Seto Kaiba]

Unlimited alien technology, and not one 262 has a passive IR tracker? That'd have found 8 warm bodies against cold terrain reasonably quickly.

That's actually a really good question... every VF has had infrared cameras as part of its sensor suite, so why the hell are the Aerial Knights wasting their time sweeping the frozen hinterland with searchlights?

Do you think they're even going to make it back to Ragna by the end of this show?

Maybe, in the epilogue.

What ever happened to our suspicious NUNS officer?

Odds are he's probably pulling the strings behind the NUNS counteroffensive... being better at saving the galaxy than the protagonists.

[Valkyrie addict]

They don't need IR sensors... they have.........the wind

[Graham]

Well they did warn us that the tone would change drastically

If I remember correctly, they warned us that the tone would change drastically after episode 1 or 2, which it didn't really until after Messer's death.

I also seem to recall the said we'd see some really cool choreography for the atmospheric dogfights, but that really didn't happen much, unless you count glowing light trails scissoring in the distance as "really cool".

[Graham]

That's actually a really good question... every VF has had infrared cameras as part of its sensor suite, so why the hell are the Aerial Knights wasting their time sweeping the frozen hinterland with searchlights?

Yeah, I also wondered about that. Far more efficient to search for people using thermal imaging (IR) technology, rather than search lights .

Living bodies against a snowy background are gonna stand out like a sore thumb!

[Saruta]

What ever happened to our suspicious NUNS officer?

Wikipedia:

=

Laurie Maran (ラウリ・マラン Rauri Maran^?) Voiced by: Eiji Sekiguchi A staff member of N.U.N.S. Section Two. He is sent to Ragna to inform Chaos that the Protoculture ruins of the planet are to be destroyed to prevent the Windermere Kingdom from using them to amplify the Var Syndrome. Following his failed attempt to destroy the Protoculture ruins, he is killed in his fleet's failed assault on the Windermere Kingdom near Windermere IV's orbit.

=

If this be true and if "big" NUNS (as opposed to Voldor NUNS) and their jamming won't be heard from again, I'm disappointed. I was pretty sure that the fleet was a "first attempt", and that they knew it could fail - why else would they NOT send a Macross class? They just thought "if Var happens and the fleet falls into enemy hands, they should not get a Macross class". And three fleets with Macross class ships and far more redundancy in jamming are being prepared, right? RIGHT?

They failed due to a single good pilot. Simultaneous attack to get that pilot busy is so obvious, even the lackluster Chaos could pull that one off with the help of Voldor NUNS. A triple-fleet attack would be a pretty obvious response.

I can believe in Chaos winning *before* NUNS had the time to attack - and saving Windermere from the dimension-weapon genocide that a NUNS success would be. (Saving NUNS itself from that, too. A planet-killing response would bring them to Darth Vader level, and I somehow can't imagine them doing anything less).

But if NUNS actually gave up after losing one fleet, suspension of disbelief is gone.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Saruta

[Einherjar]

Wikipedia:

[Aries Turner]

First, searchlights are very useful, as shown by the ANG, in interceptions. This is not the case: searchlights are braindead here.

Second, IRST is not foolproof. Dense foliage or adverse atmospherical conditions would make it useless. There is also jawdropping IR-countermeasures today IRL, and Frontier EX-Gears and our least favorite technobabes transparent jumpsuits sure have a better version of those. Sure, it is problematic with *current* technology to hide something warm over cold ice in *good* atmospheric conditions. But there they have *future* technology and *bad* weather.

Third, Knights are way too cooltards to refrain using the (Wind)Force. Searchlights were there just for ambiance while they listened their favorite disco hits, mimicking Hayate moves on the dance floor while the camera was focusing elsewhere. Maybe, like Jedis, most of the avionics easily surpassed with their natural abilities is gone, IRST included.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Ghostbear0]

Or they were using IR sensors as well and they just didn't bother showing us that on the Draken's control panel.

[Sandman]

Wikipedia:

=

Laurie Maran (ラウリ・マラン Rauri Maran^?) Voiced by: Eiji Sekiguchi A staff member of N.U.N.S. Section Two. He is sent to Ragna to inform Chaos that the Protoculture ruins of the planet are to be destroyed to prevent the Windermere Kingdom from using them to amplify the Var Syndrome. Following his failed attempt to destroy the Protoculture ruins, he is killed in his fleet's failed assault on the Windermere Kingdom near Windermere IV's orbit.

=

If this be true and if "big" NUNS (as opposed to Voldor NUNS) and their jamming won't be heard from again, I'm disappointed. I was pretty sure that the fleet was a "first attempt", and that they knew it could fail - why else would they NOT send a Macross class? They just thought "if Var happens and the fleet falls into enemy hands, they should not get a Macross class". And three fleets with Macross class ships and far more redundancy in jamming are being prepared, right? RIGHT?

They failed due to a single good pilot. Simultaneous attack to get that pilot busy is so obvious, even the lackluster Chaos could pull that one off with the help of Voldor NUNS. A triple-fleet attack would be a pretty obvious response.

I can believe in Chaos winning *before* NUNS had the time to attack - and saving Windermere from the dimension-weapon genocide that a NUNS success would be. (Saving NUNS itself from that, too. A planet-killing response would bring them to Darth Vader level, and I somehow can't imagine them doing anything less).

But if NUNS actually gave up after losing one fleet, suspension of disbelief is gone.

That would be the lamest resolution of the evil nuns guy subplot. I don't remember seeing him shown on that fleet when Keith destroyed it but i don't put it past delta's writers to do this off screen. I've never thought i'd be so disappointed in a macross series.

[NightmarePlus]

Wikipedia:

=

Laurie Maran (ラウリ・マラン Rauri Maran^?) Voiced by: Eiji Sekiguchi A staff member of N.U.N.S. Section Two. He is sent to Ragna to inform Chaos that the Protoculture ruins of the planet are to be destroyed to prevent the Windermere Kingdom from using them to amplify the Var Syndrome. Following his failed attempt to destroy the Protoculture ruins, he is killed in his fleet's failed assault on the Windermere Kingdom near Windermere IV's orbit.

=

If this be true and if "big" NUNS (as opposed to Voldor NUNS) and their jamming won't be heard from again, I'm disappointed. I was pretty sure that the fleet was a "first attempt", and that they knew it could fail - why else would they NOT send a Macross class? They just thought "if Var happens and the fleet falls into enemy hands, they should not get a Macross class". And three fleets with Macross class ships and far more redundancy in jamming are being prepared, right? RIGHT?

They failed due to a single good pilot. Simultaneous attack to get that pilot busy is so obvious, even the lackluster Chaos could pull that one off with the help of Voldor NUNS. A triple-fleet attack would be a pretty obvious response.

I can believe in Chaos winning *before* NUNS had the time to attack - and saving Windermere from the dimension-weapon genocide that a NUNS success would be. (Saving NUNS itself from that, too. A planet-killing response would bring them to Darth Vader level, and I somehow can't imagine them doing anything less).

But if NUNS actually gave up after losing one fleet, suspension of disbelief is gone.

That doesn't even seem right, imo. IIRC, the fleet that was sent to Windermere IV seemed to have been smaller than the one we saw in either episode 14 (forgot which episode the briefing was) and that group was led by one of the officers seen in the briefing.

Edited September 9, 2016 by NightmarePlus

[Einherjar]

I'm curious what Japanese fans are saying about the show.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-09-09/preliminary-results-for-2016-newtype-awards-are-in/.106287

[Sildani]

Yeahp. So a Japanese anime written for Japanese audiences is doing phenomenally well in Japan.

Proof that Western (read: American) and Japanese audiences have vastly different tastes, expectations, and perhaps most importantly have wildly different requirements to suspend their disbelief. We're bitching about lack of real military tactics, strategy, and ham fisted storytelling that seems to drastically change tone midway through the series. Not to mention lack of Valkyrie action.

They're seemingly more concerned with character, style, music, and willing to either ignore the plot holes or or take them, and the plot items we're not shown, like the shifty NUNS guy vanishing, on faith.

Eastern and Western audiences apparently demand, and can tolerate, vastly different things. No surprise, but it is a surprise that we in the West complain about it so much. Kawamori is aware of us here, he likes and appreciates us, but he doesn't write or create specifically for us. One day perhaps, but Delta isn't it. Never will be.

[Raptor One]

They're seemingly more concerned with character, style, music, and willing to either ignore the plot holes or or take them, and the plot items we're not shown, like the shifty NUNS guy vanishing, on faith.

You must not follow Western TV much if you don't think Western audiences do the exact same thing. There are lots of super successful shows over here that are riddled with plotholes. I think it's less about Japanese versus Western and more about specific demographics or groups.

[Roy Focker]

Wait there's character, style and music in Delta?

Delta plays it pretty safe with those. It uses the standard stereotypes in the most bland and uninspired way possible. The music is adequate but it is performed by a group of young and cute girls. There's always fans for stuff like that. Those results are from readers of a magazine. What is Delta's impact beyond those readers? What do the critics think? What are its ratings? Have they been going up or down?

[David Hingtgen]

Wait there's character, style and music in Delta?

Pretty much. Even ignroing mecha/battles-----Frontier had much more interesting characters and music. Delta is bland and very "same-y".

[Seto Kaiba]

Those results are from readers of a magazine. What is Delta's impact beyond those readers?

An equally valid question would be... is this voted on by readers on a one-person one-vote basis, or is this one of those polls-by-postcard where one person can submit as many votes as they like as long as they're willing to spring for that many postcards?

Did Delta score in some of these categories it clearly doesn't belong in, like story, because of a handful of determined fanboys sending thousands of postcards?

Some of these categories are eminently deserved, but story? C'mon...

[Saruta]

Personal opinion follows:

Delta is doing music "by the book". M7 and Frontier had dedicated creators who, despite being very different (an ascending rock star and an anime composer at the peak of her power) believed in their work and could be interesting and spontaneous. Delta has a music plan and sticks to it pretty well. If they planned out the story as well as they planned out the music, it would be an awesome show.

[David Hingtgen]

If the story had as little variation as the music does, it'd be an even more boring show than it is.