Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 23 - READ 1st POST

[505thAirborne]

Then that would have been made Keith even more of a hypocrite since he was gonna lob off Freyja's head back in episode 7 or 8.

Perhaps at epsiode 7 or 8, But at this stage I'd like to see some emotion of these characters. Would be nice to see him as something more than just a Cliche, If Keith truly wants to win this war then he needs Pilots with self control, not Bogue who just yells & screams his anger all day long. Frankly Bogue reminds me to much of Nora at times from Mac Zero... was great when she got wasted!

[BlueMax]

Negative

Very poor screenplay. The scenes, speech and actions of characters, mostly from Chaos side made little sense.

There are many things wrong, but one of the things that stood out for me was the plotline involving Mikumo falling into enemy hands.

I think as regular watchers/fans who have been analysing what would be the next logical step in therms of the storyline, it was logical that Roid would need a replacement singer and it was clear that Mikumo was it, and that means that sooner or later, she was going to be in enemy hands.

in this episode it happened. Now, I'm sure there are many ways one can fall into enemy hands, and i have to say that this is one of the lamest ways to do it:

Basically what happend on screen basically GIFTED her to the Windermereans, specifically Roid, JUST LIKE THAT. No fuss, no sense of danger, too convenient.

Furthermore, though Chaos would not have known the depth of her abilities, they really should have known better: ANYONE capable of interacting with the Protoculture ruins - which is clear in-universe how powerful they can be - should be deemed a priority target for protection against falling into enemy hands, which they know use a person who can...guess what? Interact with the ruins!

The abduction would have worked much much better, if Chaos had spent much effort to protect Mikumo, only to be outsmarted by their enemy.

What happened was basically very lazy writing.

if this show did not have "Macross" in its title, I would have totally written it off and refused to watch anymore episodes, and something tells me I'm not alone in this.

Edited September 5, 2016 by BlueMax

[NightmarePlus]

Perhaps at epsiode 7 or 8, But at this stage I'd like to see some emotion of these characters. Would be nice to see him as something more than just a Cliche, If Keith truly wants to win this war then he needs Pilots with self control, not Bogue who just yells & screams his anger all day long. Frankly Bogue reminds me to much of Nora at times from Mac Zero... was great when she got wasted!

Then Keith could just simply have Bogue grounded and have another pilot take his place, not shooting Bogue. At this stage it's better to wait for the movie(s) to see any emotions between these characters and just let the series take it's disappointing course.

[Seto Kaiba]

if this show did not have "Macross" in its title, I would have totally written it off and refused to watch anymore episodes, and something tells me I'm not alone in this.

Yeah, I'll admit if this one didn't have Macross in the title it'd long since have joined the very elite fraternity of shows that were so awful I couldn't finish them.

In a lot of ways, it feels worse than shows which were garbage from the outset like Stratos4 or Bubblegum Crisis: Tokyo 2040 AD because all the elements of Macross greatness are there. The main trio are actually quite interesting, even the weaker songs like Walkure Attack! are eminently listenable, the mecha are interesting and some downright gorgeous, the scenery is beautiful and the setting enormous... but it's put together wrong. It's painful to watch because it's obvious a competent staff could have turned this into something wonderful and exciting, and the nutters running the show have produced something that I actually straight-up dread watching every week with a plot that is pants-on-head retarded.

Then Keith could just simply have Bogue grounded and have another pilot take his place, not shooting Bogue. At this stage it's better to wait for the movie(s) to see any emotions between these characters and just let the series take it's disappointing course.

In all honesty, Mythbusters proved you could polish a turd (Ep.113)... but some turds really don't deserve the effort.

I doubt condensation is going to do this sh*t awful barely-there plot any favors, and I don't need Macross serving up two disappointments in a row when installments are so infrequent.

[Alberich]

Just end this series in a nice note and we can wrap up things somewhat nicely.

I really, really hope that the last chapters made for this awful 2nd cour and we can at least end the series nicely... btw we are just in time to get a good gift in the 35th anniversary, so why not make a remake of SDF Macross based in Macross the First?. Well a man can dream.

About the chapter... well we now that Xaos is awful in "surgical ops" and "infiltration", so why they try it again?, they have failed every time in the series. And this time was no exception...

Animation wise they are trying to make everything cheap. I mean, I hope is for some very good animation and CG in the final chapters... again I can dream.

Also all of this makes me think about what I was saying in the spanish-speaking forums... why don't give a Sunrise treatment to the Macross franchise? And then make a lot of Macross series, like with Gundam... at least that way we can get something nice every some years. Delta just make the excuse of "uniqueness" of Macross productions fall flat, at least from my POV...

Well just my 0.02 cents and bitter rant

[505thAirborne]

Then Keith could just simply have Bogue grounded and have another pilot take his place, not shooting Bogue. At this stage it's better to wait for the movie(s) to see any emotions between these characters and just let the series take it's disappointing course.

IF.... and that's a mighty big "if". Any movie that should actually be produced, they better make damn sure that everyone on the TV series production crew has NOTHING to do with it, they need to hire a competent Director, experienced writer and redevelop these characters with some personalities that truly define them. As of now they are just cardboard cutouts with little or no likable traits. Freyja at this point is the only one I actually care about.

Also, forget Keith shooting Bogue... poor choice there. When Freyja was thrown to the ground, would have loved to have seen Hayate either punch the SOB or pull a knife on him, letting Bogue know that he (Hayate) needs no VF in order to take him out. Again show me these characters have some emotion, passion, a burning desire.

[Aries Turner]

Also, forget Keith shooting Bogue... poor choice there. When Freyja was thrown to the ground, would have loved to have seen Hayate either punch the SOB or pull a knife on him

That was another thing that puzzled me: no one was restrained and Hayate even was allowed to beat one of their own without anyone pointing a rifle. So chivalrous of the knights to not bind anyone and just trust their enemies honor on not doing anything rash. Oh, my...

Edited September 5, 2016 by Aries Turner

[sh9000]

Subs are out.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

That was another thing that puzzled me: no one was restrained and Hayate even was allowed to beat one of their own without anyone pointing a rifle. So chivalrous of the knights to not bind anyone and just trust their enemies honor on not doing anything rash. Oh, my...

They don't seem too bothered by human reflexes, consider how quickly they were able to re-subdue them in Episode 8 even after being flashbanged and Qasim disarming Hayate in Episode 18 even though Hayate was already pointing a gun at him.

[TehPW]

Negative

Very poor screenplay. The scenes, speech and actions of characters, mostly from Chaos side made little sense.

There are many things wrong, but one of the things that stood out for me was the plotline involving Mikumo falling into enemy hands.

I think as regular watchers/fans who have been analysing what would be the next logical step in therms of the storyline, it was logical that Roid would need a replacement singer and it was clear that Mikumo was it, and that means that sooner or later, she was going to be in enemy hands.

in this episode it happened. Now, I'm sure there are many ways one can fall into enemy hands, and i have to say that this is one of the lamest ways to do it:

Basically what happend on screen basically GIFTED her to the Windermereans, specifically Roid, JUST LIKE THAT. No fuss, no sense of danger, too convenient.

Furthermore, though Chaos would not have known the depth of her abilities, they really should have known better: ANYONE capable of interacting with the Protoculture ruins - which is clear in-universe how powerful they can be - should be deemed a priority target for protection against falling into enemy hands, which they know use a person who can...guess what? Interact with the ruins!

The abduction would have worked much much better, if Chaos had spent much effort to protect Mikumo, only to be outsmarted by their enemy.

What happened was basically very lazy writing.

if this show did not have "Macross" in its title, I would have totally written it off and refused to watch anymore episodes, and something tells me I'm not alone in this.

I'm sure for every Star Trek II, you gotta have a Star Trek V every once in a while...

[UN Spacy]

I'd like to see how this forum would react to Macross 7's first twenty episodes if it were around in the mid 90's.

Edited September 5, 2016 by UN Spacy

[Ghostbear0]

I didn't watch 7 till earlier this year so my reaction would be strangle Basara. But I imagine the reaction would be either that it's moving slow or that it's mostly about the travails of a rock band. Honestly the first 20 episodes of 7 are faster paced than the second half of this show and more importantly it was the first episodes the introduction not the payoff.

[seti88]

Just end this series in a nice note and we can wrap up things somewhat nicely.

I really, really hope that the last chapters made for this awful 2nd cour and we can at least end the series nicely... btw we are just in time to get a good gift in the 35th anniversary, so why not make a remake of SDF Macross based in Macross the First?. Well a man can dream.

About the chapter... well we now that Xaos is awful in "surgical ops" and "infiltration", so why they try it again?, they have failed every time in the series. And this time was no exception...

Animation wise they are trying to make everything cheap. I mean, I hope is for some very good animation and CG in the final chapters... again I can dream.

Also all of this makes me think about what I was saying in the spanish-speaking forums... why don't give a Sunrise treatment to the Macross franchise? And then make a lot of Macross series, like with Gundam... at least that way we can get something nice every some years. Delta just make the excuse of "uniqueness" of Macross productions fall flat, at least from my POV...

Well just my 0.02 cents and bitter rant

Just give us the dang armored valkyrie so we can await the dx!!!!

[Sandman]

This might be the first macross to not have an armoured Valkyrie other than plus.

[Marzan]

I'd like to see how this forum would react to Macross 7's first twenty episodes if it were around in the mid 90's.

Everyone would be going BOMBA!! What else?

[David Hingtgen]

At this point, I won't be surprised if the remainder of the series is infiltrating the castle/rescuing various people, talking to Roid about Mikumo, then Mikumo sings and saves the galaxy. As in, no more mecha, "we've seen the last of the VF-31".

[azrael]

Can I call this episode, "How to waste the element of surprise"?

[Seto Kaiba]

That was another thing that puzzled me: no one was restrained and Hayate even was allowed to beat one of their own without anyone pointing a rifle. So chivalrous of the knights to not bind anyone and just trust their enemies honor on not doing anything rash. Oh, my...

Well, we know that the Windermereans, as bullet-time supermen, don't think much of human physical abilities... but on the Bogue front, I guess it could be that they just don't like him very much.

I'd like to see how this forum would react to Macross 7's first twenty episodes if it were around in the mid 90's.

Probably exactly the same as this... you'd have a handful of people who are just happy there's another Macross show on the air or praising its "easy to follow" absence of a story, and the rest would probably be baying for the director's blood over Macross 7 having two full cours of "bugger all's going on". At least Macross 7 had a much stronger finish than Delta is likely to receive, with those two cours of nothing being run-up to something much more reasonably-paced and interesting.

I'd actually rank 7 above Delta on those grounds. 7 started weak and finished strong. Delta started strong and will finish weak, and be all the more disappointing for it.

This might be the first macross to not have an armoured Valkyrie other than plus.

Five'll get you twenty an Armored Siegfried will show up in the Variable Fighter Master File book a year or so from now as equipment issued to the NUNS squadrons flying it.

At this point, I won't be surprised if the remainder of the series is infiltrating the castle/rescuing various people, talking to Roid about Mikumo, then Mikumo sings and saves the galaxy. As in, no more mecha, "we've seen the last of the VF-31".

As lame as the dogfights have been, I almost have to say "good riddance"... Xaos is almost as bad in the air as they are on the ground, and the VF-31's too good-looking an aircraft to have its legacy weighed down by association with them.

[RDX17]

The show definitely went off the rails a number of episodes back, but with 22 and 23 it feels like it's getting back on track towards...something.

[kalvasflam]

I have to agree with the Macross 7 comparison by Seto, initially it was quite weak, but the storyline developed eventually. You could argue they could've pared Macross 7 down, glad they didn't.

They either need to develop these characters, or not bother at all. With Mac7, there was also familiarity in terms of some of the characters that could continue to hold interest. But onto this episode....

Bogue is once again inspirational, but is stopped short by the rest of his short sighted colleagues... if he had killed Freyja, he could've ensured the eventual success by the Lenscrafters spokesman. Speaking of whom, nice gut shot to Kumo Kumo, starting with a little of the roid rage, eh? Beating up a woman, and then tying her up? Oh man, is Roid deciding to go for another team now that he has been rejected?

Hmm, so there is a "klaatu barada nikto" in the marcoss universe... heh heh, and it affects Mikumo.

Strange, the VF-22 wasn't shot down, it was taken intact, talk about fishy... So, the NUNS base is intact? what the heck have the Windermerans been doing, holding the base open for people to reclaim it? Then having the "original" MDE dropper as a trophy/momento?

Silly... I wish we could've had a flashback episode. Is Herman going to die any time soon? How about the evil twin brothers?

[505thAirborne]

^^^

"Hmm, so there is a "klaatu barada nikto" in the Macross universe... heh heh."

After watching the subs & reading your comment it was hard not to laugh for a moment.

[Ghostbear0]

I still don't understand why the hell everyone split up. Did anyone catch why they split like that?

[Seto Kaiba]

I still don't understand why the hell everyone split up. Did anyone catch why they split like that?

Xaos! You don't have to be suicidal or incompetent to work here, but if you weren't you'd be working somewhere else.

Or maybe...

Arad: "When I'm in command, every mission's a suicide mission!"

or better yet...

Arad: "Everything I know about infiltration and stealth I learned from Pirates of Penzance... that's not a problem, is it?"

Edited September 5, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Aries Turner]

It makes me sad to think that for the toy to be sold, we'll see Arad in Armored VF-31, but doing nothing as allways. For the mandatory Macross attack, we'll get a reuse of Frontier and Quarter tag teaming Galaxy as Elysion and turbocharged Hayate's VF-31 (no new fighter) tag teaming Sigur Valens.

Only bright point would be Bilrer having found what he desired, and maybe a widow's blessing.

[azrael]

...

Let me restate...

Can I call this episode, "How to waste the element of surprise"?

Really, I'd say more but I would prefer not to re-plaster the wall. Again.

Sit-down viewing...

-Again, perhaps if this episode came earlier, I won't feel as bad. But again, a day late and a dollar short.

-Again, someone explain to me the tactics of this rhetorical nonsense...Why in bloody-frakin hell did they not send a EFFIN' FLEET to Windermere? We saw the in last episode NUNS was taking names and actually doing something to Windermere forces. They should have sent a fleet and ended this. There was no Wind Singer. Someone get those writers in here so I can Three-Stooges-smack the crap outta them and explain proper tactics.

-Oh Bogue, the more you talk the more I want you to shoot you out of the sky then tea-bag you (SERIOUSLY, we need some Bogue fanart with someone tea-bagging him. NOW!). You deserve to live and be continuously sh*tted on for the rest of your short existence.

-EX-Gears would have been so useful.

-They rebuilt the VF-22. My plot device-senses are tingling.

I could go on more but 'eff it. At 2..3 more episodes left what would be the point. This show will end. But the road we took to get here is not one I want to repeat.

[Saruta]

Positive vote. A rather weak positive, but a positive. This looks like it was picked from the original movie script or something -there is action, there is a reasonable pace.

...and there is little Freyja covering Ranka. Yet another nod to cover singing, which started with Macross 7. I do wonder how the early 90s Macross managed to hit "bang on the buck" of what would be happening with NicoNicoDouga and the like - Vocaloid and Utaite ! At least I'm glad they know it happened and keep the Utaite line going, something absent, I think, in Frontier.

The Mikumo-picnic stuff is cute and quite welcome, though, yes, way too late in the show. I think they should have made a "Mikumo trying to grow up" arc instead of some of that talking around. Her getting caught and dumbfounded with "Rudanjal Rom Mayan" would have hit WAY harder if they did that.

It appears clear why there is a split of Makina-Reina-Mikumo from the others as they were in that shuttle and the others, in the two VFs. But I'm not sure why Arad+Kaname have split from the main trio, as they were all in the VFs and should not have landed too far from each other.

If Mikumo ends up feigning cooperation with Roid then singing her own thing and saving the galaxy, possibly by sacrificing herself, this will be way too predictable.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Saruta

[Aries Turner]

-They rebuilt the VF-22. My plot device-senses are tingling.

They wouldn't dare...

...no way...

...museum things are supposed to be devoid of engines or avionics!

Oh, crap, the thing is going to fly at the first try.

[David Hingtgen]

...museum things are supposed to be devoid of engines or avionics!

The best ones are ready to fly and have drip pans under them, though it's rare.

[NightmarePlus]

-EX-Gears would have been so useful.

^ This. This so much. Did the writers forget that those were a thing. They're literally in the enemy's motherland, surrounded by all sides with no way to get back home. EX-Gears would have at least helped them evade capture longer.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

But I'm not sure why Arad+Kaname have split from the main trio, as they were all in the VFs and should not have landed too far from each other.

Going to fanwank that either Arad ran into additional reinforcements (offscreen) that he had to divert, or that they didn't want to have all of their fighters hidden in a single location.

Putting aside the "But it's convenient for the plot and character development" answer.

EX-Gears: Yeah, that would have been great. Unfortunately the staff went for skintight holosuits for Walküre instead of practical combat gear. Though if they used EX-Gears then we would have had to have an episode where a horribly-off-model Freyja trashed the Elysion while learning how to use the thing while looking for her panties.

Edited September 6, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[ayaxr]

^ This. This so much. Did the writers forget that those were a thing. They're literally in the enemy's motherland, surrounded by all sides with no way to get back home. EX-Gears would have at least helped them evade capture longer.

The writers themselves have long forgotten this is a Macross show. This could pretty well have been "generic anime x of the season" if you took out the VFs. And I mean there's so little of them onscreen that it really wouldn't be that hard. Haha.

- A restored VF-22 piloted by MCs father.. lol... so cliche'd its not even funny. Watch Hayate save the day in a badly CGI animated VF-22.

[Aries Turner]

The best ones are ready to fly and have drip pans under them, though it's rare.

But why, oh, why would you restore the inside when the outside is memento enough of the shame? Why going the extra mile to restore the engines? That would be a WTF that not even a batallion wide tactical facepalm could sufficiently describe. Edited September 6, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Seto Kaiba]

They wouldn't dare......no way......museum things are supposed to be devoid of engines or avionics!

Oh, crap, the thing is going to fly at the first try.

Let's just say it wouldn't be the first time in Macross that someone's static display of an old Valkyrie turned out to still be in working order and possessed of enough emergency backup power to transform and maneuver briefly.

The VF-1 Valkyrie on the roof of Macross Frontier Island-1's Mihoshi Academy is a late-block VF-1 in good working order. It's not the same variant in every version of the Macross Frontier story, but in the manga story it's a VF-1J type and is briefly activated to save Sheryl during events which correspond to the TV series episode "High School Queen". It had enough juice left to transform to Battroid before it hit ground, saving Alto and Sheryl.

But why, oh, why would you restore the inside when the outside is memento enough of the shame? Why going the extra mile to restore the engines? That would be a WTF that not even a batallion wide tactical facepalm could sufficiently describe.

Better question... why isn't this fighter in a museum? It's supposed to be a propaganda piece, so why not put it where everyone can see it?

Why is there an apparently intact, quite possibly operational enemy variable fighter inside the royal palace of the Windermere Kingdom?

Moreover, why are the Aerial Knights taking their totally unrestrainted, very hostile captives for a guided f***ing tour of the royal palace? It's like the plan is to make sure Xaos know where they can score an high-value invalid for them to take hostage and an unguarded escape vehicle are as a courtesy in the event they were planning an escape. Does the tour also come with a map of the castle and an "I ESCAPED DARWENT CASTLE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY T-SHIRT" shirt? Are they even going to be imprisoned, or is the Windermere Kingdom's equivalent of INS just going to deport them after they get a personal scolding from Keith and Roid? I can't help but think of the end of Robin Hood: Men in Tights... is Roid going to say. "Take them away! Put them in the Tower of Darwent! ... make them part of the tour."?

Actually, maybe there's something to that second one. Maybe Roid intends for them to escape and kill or abduct Heinz so he can seize power on Windermere with Mikumo as his puppet.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Ghostbear0]

I realise that the shuttle crashed in a different place and they were already split int those 3 groups but they hid the VF's taking the time to group up would be utterly inconsequential. Hall how are the Windemerians missing 3 60 foot fighters while holding right in on the bloody people. Well besides going "How do we get this to work?" "Ooooh I know know new magic powers for runes!!" .

And as for the 22 he said Gramia had it repaired... I can't really decide if I dread the contrivance or hope for the sweet, sweet Strumvogle action more.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[Zinjo]

I'd like to see how this forum would react to Macross 7's first twenty episodes if it were around in the mid 90's.

Oh gawd!! The first viewing of M7 I couldn't finish. I had to wait a year and be prompted by an argument with Keith to watch the whole damn thing. I suspect this show will end the same with either Walkurie or Mikumo alone, singing the galaxy to safety like Basara did in M7...

I didn't watch 7 till earlier this year so my reaction would be strangle Basara. But I imagine the reaction would be either that it's moving slow or that it's mostly about the travails of a rock band. Honestly the first 20 episodes of 7 are faster paced than the second half of this show and more importantly it was the first episodes the introduction not the payoff.

How about we agree to disagree about M7...

The VF-22 with the NUNS insignia was definitely a sponsor moment. Now all the toymakers with VF-22 molds can repaint and add new insignia and sell them as Delta VF-22's...

Edited September 6, 2016 by Zinjo