Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 22 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Delta Episode 22 Talkback Thread

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New episode threads and polls opens Sundays, 9:00AM EST/6:00AM PST (22:00, i.e. 10:00PM JST), 30 minutes BEFORE the broadcast.

Broadcast schedule:

Sunday: Tokyo MX, 22:30 JST

Monday: TVQ Kyushu, 26:30 (2:30 AM) JST

Tuesday: MBS, 27:00 (3:00 AM) JST / BS11, 24:00 (midnight) JST

Wednesday: d anime store, 12:00 JST / TV Aichi & Television Hokkaido, 26:05 (2:05 AM) JST

(Broadcast times subject to change, Check listings.)

[IXTL]

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Finally... valk action with battroids and a Koenig Monster too.

[CRYO]

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Final phase

NUNS VB6

Macross elysion in action, no more dim sum cart time

Finally all delta team member have some action scene

End with apple farmer knight passed away... though not too touching

Edited August 28, 2016 by CRYO

[RedWolf]

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We finally have an interaction between Hayate and Mikumo! The later much like Basara bothered of somebody not listening to his song Mikumo wonders why Hayate doesn't react to her songs only to Freyja. Does Hayate find her not cute? More like scary to him. Guess mystery isn't in his strike zone.

Alfheim we finally see Voldor's NUNS kicking ass. Larzabal or Cat Dad blowing up a Windermerean Catamaran battleship with a VB-6 Konig Monster. Thus we have a required Monster appearance.

Freyja still having her doubts but Hayate and Mirage tell her to have faith in them. They fight Cassim who is full of death flags. Hayate goes Var but Mirage snaps him out of it.

Cassim dies as he fossilzes in front of Hayate and Freyja. Thinking of his son.

[UN Spacy]

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THE WAIT WAS WORTH IT

[charles88]

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Its seems that over using rune could shorten Windermere life even further like how Cassim do. Also RIP Cassim

[Nazareno2012]

  On 8/28/2016 at 2:56 PM, charles88 said:

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Its seems that over using rune could shorten Windermere life even further like how Cassim do. Also RIP Cassim

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It was already mentioned in previous episodes regarding Heinz, as "we cannot let his rune run out" or something like it.

[Silverwind]

I loved this episode.

[sh9000]

Hell yeah.

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Cool battles scenes.

Edited August 28, 2016 by sh9000

[Laundro]

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I gave this episode a neutral vote

The Koenig was a delight,animation quality was up this week and FINALLY we get some action.

Is it me or does the choreography for all the atmospheric battles seem to be exactly the same?
I hate those damn forearm cannons on the 31, i miss seeing a gunpod in action but those occasional big blasts from
the draken are cool.

I love how Hayate bitches at Freya to sing, she gets slapped then Hayate goes var in less than a minute and loses his mind.
Well done Hayate,well done *slow clap*

Then we have Cassim who looks like he craps himself in the cockpit just before he goes down and while all this is occurring
Arad is just chilling in the background not really assisting. Arad is the polar opposite of Ozma, he was always neck deep in
the action yelling at Alto to hurry up. Nope... Arad just chills there, going grey.

MVP of the Ep was Chuck. FINALLY seeing a 31 launching missels with a cool pose was a long time coming and Chuck nailed it.

The biggest flaw of this ep is that IT DOESN'T MOVE THE STORY FORWARD!!

We have maybe 4/5 episodes left?

I could care less about what happens to any of them, except Chuck.
I hope he reunites with his sister *if she survived* when they go back to Ragna.
Rest of them can jump into a dimensional fold onto Planet Dont Care.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Laundro

[UN Spacy]

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The HELL voted neutral?

These polls should be public...let me SHAME you.

[Laundro]

  On 8/28/2016 at 3:23 PM, UN Spacy said:

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The HELL voted neutral?

These polls should be public...let me SHAME you.

I did, but i gave my reasoning.

[abbadon]

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Everyone was kicking ass! Even Chuck!

[Roy Focker]

Neutral

(Spoiler-free review)

Watched the episode without spoilers because I was looking to make screen grabs. The good thing is stuff actually happens and all the computer generated action scenes are really good. The bad thing is the character animation. It's all over the place. Most of it is really bad.

[Laundro]

  On 8/28/2016 at 3:52 PM, Roy Focker said:

Neutral

(Spoiler-free review)

Watched the episode without spoilers because I was looking to make screen grabs. The good thing is stuff actually happens and all the computer generated action scenes are really good. The bad thing is the character animation. It's all over the place. Most of it is really bad.

My personal fav is Arad at 14:25

[Heron]

I give it a positive for Mecha Action...still neutral on some of the character choices and I agree with Roy on negative for character animation.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Heron

[Marzan]

Graham rejoice!

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Someone finally remembered that Macross is considered a mecha series despite it's other atributes and we finally get some action in that regard. The Valk stuff was pretty repetitive but the Destroid and Elysion action made up for it.

Mikumo's mistery seems so flat as a plot device, doesn't it? I don't really feel the impact of it at all. I hope Lady M's origin works better

[Product9]

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[ManhattanProject972]

  On 8/28/2016 at 6:04 PM, Product9 said:

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I know you're happy we got to see some transforming in battle

Edited August 28, 2016 by ManhattanProject972

[This Confuses Gamlin]

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Is it bad that while I did appreciate the surge in mecha action, I'm still skimming through Frontier episodes to see if they recycled shots of the Koenig Monster? And while they did include a good bit of action here, that also made the occasional bad shot/effect very obvious.

[azrael]

Neutral. Holy crap, they couldn't keep up the cel animation at times. Action is nice but it's basically going to be crammed in at this point. Eight episodes of almost no action and little character work, you know it's basically going to be crammed into these last few episodes. They are still accountable for that mess. And cramming it in now doesn't excuse the fact they screwed up by not expecting the show to go on this long..

Now onto the spoilers.

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-So they used a ruin to make a fold gate powerful enough to punch through to Windermere. It took us 8 episodes to get here. So a super fold booster wasn't going to be enough huh?

-Action! Finally. We get to see some action from the rest of Delta. The VB-6 was recycled footage. So was the VF-171.

-Qasim dying. He wasn't shot down. His body basically broke down in-flight. That's not a kill. QUITTER!

[kalvasflam]

  On 8/28/2016 at 6:55 PM, azrael said:

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-So they used a ruin to make a fold gate powerful enough to punch through to Windermere. It took us 8 episodes to get here. So a super fold booster wasn't going to be enough huh?

-Action! Finally. We get to see some action from the rest of Delta. The VB-6 was recycled footage. So was the VF-171.

-Qasim dying. He wasn't shot down. His body basically broke down in-flight. That's not a kill. QUITTER!

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haven't seen it yet, but am curious why Cassim died first and not Herman, cause Herman is older right?

[This Confuses Gamlin]

  On 8/28/2016 at 7:01 PM, kalvasflam said:

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haven't seen it yet, but am curious why Cassim died first and not Herman, cause Herman is older right?

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He got the Wind Super Saiyan powerup. What remains to be confirmed is whether his previous experience with the super-powered Voldor ruins accelerated the process, because if Wind Riding ages you, wouldn't Keith already look like Hermann?

[Ghostbear0]

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Yay things happened!!!!! Mecha things even. Waiting for subs for vote but.... some of the decision making seemed questionable. Actualy what the frakk are 3 VF's and Walkure supposed to accomplish on the enemy's homeworld? So mecha yay, story????.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[SuperHobo]

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Positive vote here because after 22 damn episodes I finally got the Hayate and Mirage Duel battroid action! This episode actually feels like a macross episode. Now why didn't they send the whole damn fleet to Windemere? Shouldn't Chuck have gone too? And oh no next episode is another infiltration episode....because we totally need more of those.

Sidenote: That slap pales in comparison to the Minmay slap.

[crixskn]

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Mirage was so great, I feared Hayate would die by her hand but the heart was stronger and didn't let her do it. Precious moment.

[505thAirborne]

  On 8/28/2016 at 8:23 PM, SuperHobo said:

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Positive vote here because after 22 damn episodes I finally got the Hayate and Mirage Duel battroid action! This episode actually feels like a macross episode. Now why didn't they send the whole damn fleet to Windemere? Shouldn't Chuck have gone too? And oh no next episode is another infiltration episode....because we totally need more of those.

Sidenote: That slap pales in comparison to the Minmay slap.

Eazy-E came to mind with that slap.

[kalvasflam]

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holy smoke, I can't believe it, a redshirt in a 171 shoot down a Draken. what in the world is happening. At least he died immediately afterwards, so all is still right with the world.

The episode definitely makes up for a lot of the slow pacing since episode 13. I'd like to wait till sub comes out, but what the heck were Keith et al doing? Cause the evil twin brothers and Cassim were basically bench warmers so far for all the action they have had in the series. Putting them in now isn't any different than putting in a few redshirts.

One thing I didn't get is why the hell is Cassim aging? No song of the wind, and I don't think the Walkure affects the Windermereans the same way.

I enjoyed the mech action, but am a little disappointed with the fact that we don't get to see much of the bigger battle.

As for the slap, this is at least on par with the Ranka slap, although I think Sheryl has more moral authority than Mikumo.

I'm seriously sad that the Windermere catamarans were just sitting ducks for the Koenig. Thought they'd do more, but I guess Macross has always been a fighter centric show and not as much focused on ships.

Edited August 28, 2016 by kalvasflam

[azrael]

  On 8/28/2016 at 8:23 PM, SuperHobo said:

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Now why didn't they send the whole damn fleet to Windemere? Shouldn't Chuck have gone too?

Sidenote: That slap pales in comparison to the Minmay slap.

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Yes. Why didn't they just send an entire fleet through? Chuck was running interference, so that was understandable but yes, they should have sent a fleet through.

[Aries Turner]

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Any clue about the purple and blue beams Hayate was firing against Cassim just after rescuing Freja and Kaname? Purple ones seemed the head turret, although some shoots seem odd. But the blue ones seemed to be fired from the arm railguns. Are those modular and interchangeable with beam cannons as in VF-25 and VF-27?

That VB-6 had some kind of cannon in at least one of the missile arms. It could all be animation errors, or a modular gunpod sitting in one of the arm missile silos.

[Edit]: Also, redemption for the VF-171, fighting like true professionals, even downing some SV-262 onscreen, in space as in atmosphere.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Mazinger]

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Something tells me Cassim's Drakken is gonna be in demand. At least I'll be looking for that kit.

It was also cool to see the flying nuns take out a few drakens. Three iirc.

  On 8/28/2016 at 6:04 PM, Product9 said:

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Bwahaha, and I've been re-watching ST:Voyager for the last month or so!

[This Confuses Gamlin]

  On 8/28/2016 at 9:31 PM, Aries Turner said:

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Any clue about the purple and blue beams Hayate was firing against Cassim just after rescuing Freja and Kaname? Purple ones seemed the head turret, although some shoots seem odd. But the blue ones seemed to be fired from the arm railguns. Are those modular and interchangeable with beam cannons as in VF-25 and VF-27?

That VB-6 had some kind of cannon in at least one of the missile arms. It could all be animation errors, or a modular gunpod sitting in one of the arm missile silos.

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In slow motion, all of the purple shots come from the area of the head turret; Hayate's extreme maneuvering does make them look a bit weird. The arm cannons seemed all right to me. I think the blue "beam" effect is just a result of Cassim's senses riding the wind.

VB-6:

Yeah, that seems like a goof, unless the missiles are just glowing blobs like they were on Airwolf.

[Seto Kaiba]

Okay, sitting down to watch this one on the big screen... and after the last couple episodes, I have to say my expectations couldn't get much lower. The last few episodes have been R*******-level bad, and the thumbnails my Smart TV is making while the cursor rests on the file are doing nothing to inspire confidence.

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So... we open on Roid leaving the Song Shrine on the Sigur Valens, and then the Knights sitting around moping about Heinz's ill health.

Bogue, as is becoming a distressing pattern, seems to be the One Sane Man in the entire Aerial Knighthood, pointing out that they are straight-up f***ed if Heinz can't sing anymore.

Jump on down to an orchard being cultivated within eyeshot of the castle, and Qasim's talking to Hermann's kid, who seems awfully smug. I predict that will end badly for both of him, especially since Qasim's got that photo of his kid out again. Death flags, mate! Death flags! Right before the upbeat and somewhat flat-feeling Absolute Zero Theta Novatic OP. I envy Qasim at this point. Death would be a sweet release from this show that's circling the drain.

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Now we're out in deep space with the Barette City and the Macross Elysion... at least we got some shots of the VF-31A. That's calculated to raise my spirits a little before the writers can dash them again. It looks like the Mercenaries Who Don't Do Anything (Useful) are finally going to try to do something.

Yep, and we're back in the toilet again with a fanservice-heavy scene of Walkure gearing up in their magic underwear and pointlessly-sheer bodysuits. Sorry, but no amount of fanservice is going to make me like any member of Walkure but Freyja. Mikumo's still being a flat copy of Sheryl, and there's no need for the other three.

Heinz is now running the show from his sickbed, just like the late and largely unlamented Gramia. That bodes ill for his future, however short that's going to be. He's getting status reports from Keith alone, it looks like there's some damaged trust involving Roid now. We get some more Heinz x Keith backstory, admittedly minimal as it is, which is nice. It seems like poor Keith has always been shouldering the burden of being the illegitimate brother of the Prince. Also, HELL THOSE ARE BIG EFFING BIRDS! I guess some relative of the Eden-native Giant Sauro Bird?

How many times are we going to reuse that same establishing shot of the island city in this episode? Is that 2 or 3 so far?

Hayate and Mikumo are having what may be their first actual conversation in the series, which seems like a pretty transparent attempt to make us give a toss about Mikumo despite her being a flat character. It doesn't help that the entire convo is about Hayate's problems with Freyja. Hayate still manages to be a more likeable and upbeat character than Alto though. Alto'd be in full pout at this point. I guess it helps being told that, after half a dozen episodes sitting 'round deep space with their thumb up their collective arse they're finally going to do something.

Is it just me, or did the character animation quality take a dive during the briefing scene where holographic Captain Johnson is talking to everyone?

Also, they have a fleet out there... why is the Elysion going ALONE!

Oh snap, are the New UN Forces actually scoring KILLS now? It looks like a Rim Territories VF-171 scored a gun kill on a Draken III! Nope, I got my hopes up... it's time for RECYCLED FOOTAGE! They're not even recycling from their own series, most of this is nicked from Frontier! I like the new Konig paintjob though, and the NUNS is finally shown doing the heavy lifting while the pointless mercenaries are off tossing cards into a hat. More reused footage of the gun turrets on the Elysion. Also, there may be something to the theory that Windermere has some kind of fold portal network like on Uroboros... they have a fold effect just magically appear in the sky without a ship generating it. Possibly connected to the ruins.

Seems like this episode kind of underscores the lameness of the Aerial Knights as a threat. Without Heinz singing, with "No wind" as Keith put it, they don't seem to be a particularly intimidating opponent. Even the cannon fodder are pressing them pretty hard. Then again, Freyja's kind of doing the same thing for Walkure... proving that without her and Mikumo working together, Walkure might as well not bother showing up.

(These ruins look... rather phallic.)

There goes Hayate, who seems to go Var at the drop of a hat now... I thought fold receptor factor was meant to make him more resistant, but it seems he's worse than Messer was. He loses his sh*t in mere minutes, with no apparently effort to resist and starts spraying ammo everywhere. Qasim's not a particularly good sport about it either, and tries to kill him while he's lost to Var syndrome. Good thing Mirage stepped in and saved his butt. (How does a cooldown hug work if it's two robots?)

How is it that Qasim is able to go all wind rider bullet time without Heinz powering him up? Is that something they can do on their own now? From the look of how quickly he's vitrifying in his cockpit, I guess doing that without the support of a Wind Singer is a sort of "Cast from HP" thing... shortening his life to increase his abilities temporarily. I wonder if Freyja's using her rune to boost her fold song is similarly killing her slowly? Are we going to get a default end where Freyja just turns into ashes like when Guld committed suicide at the end of Plus?

The back-to-back battroids thing was a nice touch though, reminiscent of Max and Milia in the original series.

Qasim's a mess after pushing himself too hard to fight Hayate, and died after crashing his fighter. Kind of a downer ending to an already-iffy episode.

All told, while a desperate effort was made to recover from the damage inflicted by the last three episodes, I still have to tender an overall Negative vote. Too little, too late, too short, too sh*t. The animation quality was all over the map, blatant reuse... from previous shows no less, and a setup for another bloody "let's go undercover" episode because Walkure haven't proven sufficiently that they suck at that yet.

[Seto Kaiba]

  On 8/28/2016 at 9:31 PM, Aries Turner said:

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Any clue about the purple and blue beams Hayate was firing against Cassim just after rescuing Freja and Kaname? Purple ones seemed the head turret, although some shoots seem odd. But the blue ones seemed to be fired from the arm railguns. Are those modular and interchangeable with beam cannons as in VF-25 and VF-27?

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We see all through that sequence that nothing has changed with the forearm railguns... so it's probably just Qasim's bullet time awareness at play.

  On 8/28/2016 at 9:31 PM, Aries Turner said:

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That VB-6 had some kind of cannon in at least one of the missile arms. It could all be animation errors, or a modular gunpod sitting in one of the arm missile silos.

The Konig Monster has had forearm-mounted guns since Macross Frontier.

[kalvasflam]

  On 8/28/2016 at 10:44 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The Konig Monster has had forearm-mounted guns since Macross Frontier.

When you say forearm mounted cannon, I assume you're talking about the triple missile launcher?

I would've guessed that the gun shots came from the chin mount beneath the primary cockpit. I figured there are three weapons on the Konig right? the four main cannons, the two arms with triple shot missiles, and then the chin mounted self defense guns.

The animation did look funny since the shots seem to originate from the arm.

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As for the infiltration thing, you know what they say, if you don't succeed at first, keep trying... but I think it's seriously a time for a Fre-fre flashback episode next week, I mean come on, Freyja is back on Windermere, she needs to hide out some place. Back to ye old village and find your fiancee. That should kill an episode or two that way. Or at least one episode.

This opens up one big question though, Now that we see the fold thing going, I'm pretty sure it isn't Heinz generating the fold, so is it the SV that's doing it or somehow the protoculture ruins are doing it on command? This also makes me wonder if the Windermeres can open the gate on other planets for ships and so forth to retreat. It would seem logical, but I wonder how they're getting comms through so that the guys on the other planet can say, hey we need a fold gate out.

This does at least answer the question of how the NUNS fleet a few episode back was wiped out by the AKs so fast. They literally folded from the planet. Oddly enough, I thought that was supposed to be dangerous, folding from a planet that is.

Edited August 28, 2016 by kalvasflam