Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 22 - READ 1st POST

[Roy Focker]

13 episodes does make sense. It would be easy to edit show afterwards down to 13. Even 13 half and hour episode wouldn't have been enough to feature all 3 groups of characters. Likely would have just focused on one.

Delta reminds me of the last episode of Macross II. The animation was very good in Macross II until you get to the last episode. When it looked like the budget was cut and all the character animation suffered. Whatever was good about Macross II was damaged by how bad that last episode looked.

[grigolosi]

Even sanctioned factory mods are performed in the field. In most cases a mod will not be performed without the manufacturers engineering input. So even if it may look jury rigged it more than likely was given an engineers blessing prior. As with any weapon system. These systems are constantly evolving and improving and a majority of the systems mods will or have been performed in the field.

[TehPW]

So why did the Scooby gang go to Windermere thru the Ruins-provided/powered Fold Gate?

[NightmarePlus]

So why did the Scooby gang go to Windermere thru the Ruins-provided/powered Fold Gate?

They're going for a strike at the Winderbags' throat in order to bring the war to a quicker end.

[Dash]

About the lenght of the series, everyone is forgetting that the booklet is saying that Delta was originally going to be 13 episodes AND A MOVIE, the original 13 episodes would have been the ones we saw and then they would have made a movie to finish the story.

Here's the translation someone posted in Animesuki:

Nemoto

Originally it was supposed to be made up one cour and a movie. I recall it being around the time that we were working on the scenario for the fourth episode that it became a 2 cour show.
Still, the scenario for the first cour had momentum so we proceeded to make it into two cours in a way that that would build up from it.
We did have some vague ideas about what to do in a movie, so we filled that in for two cours.

Link to the translation: LINK

And that's the problem, the movie would have been maybe 2 hours which would be the same as 5 or 6 episodes, but they expanded that to 13 episodes so obviously the pacing is dragging. Also it mentions that the decision to make a second cour instead of a movie was made when they were finishing the script for episode 4, most likely a couple months before the first episode aired in April.

[kalvasflam]

nice subs....

Bogue as usual is just right on target... too bad, didn't kill the Walkure when he had the chance. Road to hell and good intentions, Bogue buddy... good intentions

Keith needs to have an accident, not Roid's buddy any more... if you're not a friend of Roid,

The Mikumo exchange with Hayate was kind of cute in an odd way, but flat. But honestly, Mikumo is like a less interesting version of Sheryl, there is actually just no comparison. Although Mikumo is kind of hot for a three year old. But she does redeem herself a little with the Mikumo slap.

Wait... free the galaxy? I thought Windermere only controlled a small part of the galaxy. As for Ernie, great motivational speech, buddy, you know, Phil Jackson, the gold standard, triangle, bitch... thank goodness he doesn't have any more lines.

why is Hayate always yelling??? you don't hear anyone else always yelling before combat, may be it's a psychological thing. He is psyching himself out or somebody else out.

Cassim/Hayate fight, pretty good. Too bad, it's not enough... heck, I bet he wasn't enough to have taken Mirage. And Mirage dodged point blank shots, some of the Jenius genes apparently is showing through. But hey, that purple and blue action, sorry, nowhere close to Max/Milia, not even on the Michel/Klan level if you ask me.

The backup singers were even not bad... too bad Arad and Chuck was for the most part doing nothing much. Actually Chuck did something.

Finally, the valk actions make this episode worth while. Too bad it took Cassim all that to get more or less nothing done. But he got to see his apple orchard again at least... oh and Alec too on the future version of Apple photos live.. in his mind.

And oh man, Sacrred Requiem looks to be another talky talky flash back ep.... heaven help Macross D.

Edited August 29, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Valkyrie addict]

And here I thought they'd use new battle animations after so long and not the same valk dance and cobra maneuver from every damn episode there´s ever a battle. They even recycled the Frontier Monster scene from almost a decade ago...seriously!! Story wise, everything is still going as dumb like the beginning.

And of course, the stupid way Windereme battle always goes:

- We're gonna kill them all!!!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Wind something, we got them!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Oh look, valks are hugging, let's just stare at our runes and not shoot them down, wind something...

- Cobra maneuver

- They're no longer doing puppy eyes to each other, LET'S KILL THEM ALL...

- Cobra maneuver

- My lifespan is done, time to go...but fisrt, let me die doing a........

- Cobra maneuver

- Well, well, the transport shuttle is downed like a sitting duck, our enemies have landed and are just staring at our fallen comrade helplessly, let's do nothing...

- You know what, episodes ending, let's RTB, i want to polish my rune with apple juice while the wind strokes it

Screw this show!! I'm gonna cleansed my eyes watching robotech!!

[Bryan Cranston]

I know some people are opposed to the idea of robots hugging and kissing, but I think it is important to let robots feel love just as much as people.

[kalvasflam]

Amen Bryan, robot love

[Ghostbear0]

And here I thought they'd use new battle animations after so long and not the same valk dance and cobra maneuver from every damn episode there´s ever a battle. They even recycled the Frontier Monster scene from almost a decade ago...seriously!! Story wise, everything is still going as dumb like the beginning.

And of course, the stupid way Windereme battle always goes:

- We're gonna kill them all!!!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Wind something, we got them!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Oh look, valks are hugging, let's just stare at our runes and not shoot them down, wind something...

- Cobra maneuver

- They're no longer doing puppy eyes to each other, LET'S KILL THEM ALL...

- Cobra maneuver

- My lifespan is done, time to go...but fisrt, let me die doing a........

- Cobra maneuver

- Well, well, the transport shuttle is downed like a sitting duck, our enemies have landed and are just staring at our fallen comrade helplessly, let's do nothing...

- You know what, episodes ending, let's RTB, i want to polish my rune with apple juice while the wind strokes it

Screw this show!! I'm gonna cleansed my eyes watching robotech!!

To be fair they did nothing after the shuttle and Cassims crash because Arad shot down the only other knight present.

[Laundro]

We should start a "How low can Delta go" thread.

What happened to the "Immelman Dance"!?

*Throws potatoes at the writers*

[Aries Turner]

The stock model has always had two thermonuclear reaction turbine engines and four plasma rockets, and the Ravens version was upgraded to have four turbines.

My bad: I reed about the difference on your site, interpreted it the other way around (thanks for clarifying the Ravens version added engines to the basic design) and royally screwed the numbers by relying on faulty human memory alone instead of checking two tabs side by side.

The weight given for the VB-6 SMS ver. and VB-6 Ravens ver. are the same... 101,900kg.

From http://macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vb-6-konig-mf.htm

Mass: unknown (lighter than 101.9 metric ton weight of the mass-produced VB-6)

Considering the SMS VB-6 was equipped with the same energy conversion armor as the VF-25's Armored Pack (ASWGA Advanced Energy Conversion Armor), its reactor output probably ...

...should have been pumped-up, via engine tuning, adding engines as in Ravens type or exchanging those with newer surplus engines, even VF-25 ones.

Sometimes, an aircraft fills a niche SO well that it can linger on in service decades beyond its expected lifespan... like the B-52.

Yup, got me there: long live the sumo valkyrie bomber.

However, those phantom cannons in Delta as in Frontier need some kind of explanation as to why are there on screen and why those aren't in the statistics. Only reasonable (in universe) explanation I think of is those are not even upgrades, but standard optional equipment (Variable Fighter Master file: VB-6 Konig Monster, oh yeah!)..

Edited August 29, 2016 by Aries Turner

[RedWolf]

This episode finally explained how the Aerial Knights went around without having a Fold Booster or piggybacking a carrier. Protoculture Fold Quartz based Fold Systems can generate a two way Fold gate from the origin to the target destination. This is different from the explanation in Macross Chronicle where the Fold drive generates a warp bubble in Fold Space.

[Seto Kaiba]

And here I thought they'd use new battle animations after so long and not the same valk dance and cobra maneuver from every damn episode there´s ever a battle. They even recycled the Frontier Monster scene from almost a decade ago...seriously!! Story wise, everything is still going as dumb like the beginning.

At this point, I think I'm probably well within my rights to demand an apology from everyone who bagged on Macross II for not innovating and mixing it up as much as other Macross shows. At least the Macross II staff were trying...

Delta's production team seems to be completely phoning it in, to such a worrying degree that the Konig Monster is far from the only scene they nicked whole cloth from Frontier and reskinned. Most of the VF-171 shots were also lifted from the Frontier series... and of course, there's copious reuse of parts or entire CG models from Frontier like the Elysion, the Barette City ship, Cheyenne II, etc.

Even the more prominent characters have been fairly blatant copies of Frontier's. Mikumo is trying real hard to be Sheryl 2.0, Freyja and Hayate are less mopey (and better) versions of Alto and Ranka, Keith is now going all creepy overprotective brother (Brera) on Heinz, and Berger Stone seems to be competing with Roid to be the new Grace O'Connor.

And of course, the stupid way Windereme battle always goes:

- We're gonna kill them all!!!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Wind something, we got them!!

- Cobra maneuver

- Oh look, valks are hugging, let's just stare at our runes and not shoot them down, wind something...

- Cobra maneuver

- They're no longer doing puppy eyes to each other, LET'S KILL THEM ALL...

- Cobra maneuver

- My lifespan is done, time to go...but fisrt, let me die doing a........

- Cobra maneuver

- Well, well, the transport shuttle is downed like a sitting duck, our enemies have landed and are just staring at our fallen comrade helplessly, let's do nothing...

- You know what, episodes ending, let's RTB, i want to polish my rune with apple juice while the wind strokes it

Screw this show!! I'm gonna cleansed my eyes watching robotech!!

I was with ya up 'till that last part... that's like cleansing your eyes by dunking your entire head into a poorly maintained, overfull septic tank.

We should start a "How low can Delta go" thread.

What happened to the "Immelman Dance"!?

*Throws potatoes at the writers*

Don't do that, they'll just make their own potato vodka instead of writing a decent episode for once...

[Seto Kaiba]

This episode finally explained how the Aerial Knights went around without having a Fold Booster or piggybacking a carrier. Protoculture Fold Quartz based Fold Systems can generate a two way Fold gate from the origin to the target destination. This is different from the explanation in Macross Chronicle where the Fold drive generates a warp bubble in Fold Space.

As I predicted several episodes back, the ruins seem to include a macro version of the fold stone system that was present on Uroboros... enabling point-to-point teleportation by space fold for small craft over short distances, presumably by simply making two locations briefly coterminous through fold space. In theory, it isn't any different from a normal fold effect, it's just a static bridging of two locations instead of a temporary one. The ship likely has no need to generate its own protective bubble of normalized space-time (the "warp bubble" of which Chronicle speaks) if the static gate is fully bridging Point A and Point B.

However, it's unusual that the one generated by the ruins is a normal fold effect, while the one generated for Windermerean ships is that odd blue-purple vortex instead. Perhaps the one Walkure and Delta Flight used is generated by the ruins, and the one the Aerial Knights have been using is generated by a zero-time fold system on the Sigur Valens.

[azrael]

In order not be disapointed next episode, I've decided to spice things up. I'll open up a beer at episodes start. Every time someone says the words "wind" or "sing" I'll have a sip. That should be fun.

So. Do we need to wheel you out?

[Seto Kaiba]

From http://macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vb-6-konig-mf.htm

Remember a couple days back when I mentioned there were occasionally problems when Chronicle described things in a less-than-clear manner? This is another good example of that.

The Macross Chronicle mechanic sheet lists the mass for the SMS VB-6 Custom as 101,900kg, the same as the Ravens model, but also says that the aircraft was lightened by SMS's rework... so that's what that's about!

should have been pumped-up, via engine tuning, adding engines as in Ravens type or exchanging those with newer surplus engines, even VF-25 ones.

They probably had to economize somewhere... all that Advanced ECA isn't cheap by any means, and a complete retrofit of the control system probably didn't do the general operating account any favors either.

However, those phantom cannons in Delta as in Frontier need some kind of explanation as to why are there on screen and why those aren't in the statistics. Only reasonable (in universe) explanation I think of is those are not even upgrades, but standard optional equipment (Variable Fighter Master file: VB-6 Konig Monster, oh yeah!)

Possibly something that was added in a block upgrade in the 2050's... or something along those lines. Edited August 29, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Roy Focker]

I think I'm going to answer every question that I don't know the answer to with "Wind Something."

[Mazinger]

Hmm when they showed the scene i wished mirage would just pull the trigger on hayate...Kablooooiee! Not from a sadist pov but from a storyline perspective, now that would be dramatic...

Help! I just had a maniacal lapse!

Gotta admit I had the same thought. Definately would have been gutsy and unexpected.

[Marzan]

So. Do we need to wheel you out?

Still standing although I'm definitely worried about watching the film versions if the Windermereans get as many lines as they do in the series

[MisaForever]

It may have something to do with the fact that this series was originally only intended to be 13 episodes long... as confirmed in the liner notes for BD volume 2.

It looks like something similar to what happened with the original series happened with the production of Delta... the ratings were good enough around Ep3-4 for the show to get green-lit for an unplanned extension. The difference being, in this case, they don't appear to have had a bunch of predeveloped surplus plot laying around the way they did with the original series (after it was cut from 49 episodes to 27 and then bumped back up to 36).

It feels almost like the writing team is having a Futurama moment. As Fry put it, "It took half an hour to write, I thought it'd take half an hour to read!" Way, WAY too much episode left at the end of the plot each time, so it's padded like a menstruating firehose.

Welp. This would explain everything.

[azrael]

Still standing although I'm definitely worried about watching the film versions if the Windermereans get as many lines as they do in the series

I think you need to do shots watching this show. Beer won't cut it.

[MisaForever]

What is a cour?

[MisaForever]

I think you need to do shots watching this show. Beer won't cut it.

You alcoholics.

[505thAirborne]

You alcoholics.

When being sober just won't cut it!

[MisaForever]

When being sober just won't cut it!

I'VE BEEN CUTTING IT FOR 40 YEARS AND LOOK AT ME!!

[kalvasflam]

At this point, I think I'm probably well within my rights to demand an apology from everyone who bagged on Macross II for not innovating and mixing it up as much as other Macross shows. At least the Macross II staff were trying...

I can't argue with you there, you're right, Mac II sadly is better than this, although my personal opinion is that I still like the songs on Delta better. Ikenai borderline and "Our battle field" and even Axia are not bad songs.

The mech action is just so meh.....

[azrael]

The mech action is just so meh.....

Yes. How many times did we have to see a scissor maneuver within the same episode?

[kalvasflam]

Yes. How many times did we have to see a scissor maneuver within the same episode?

The floor number is unknowable since it would imply that there is a known budget. So, we may see the same scissor ten times if that's what it takes to get through an episode with limited budget.

The one saving grace of this episode is that the 171 shot down two SV-262s.

I guess when the story is good, no one complains about reusing animation, when the story stinks; everything gets picked on.

[Seto Kaiba]

What is a cour?

French for "Course"... used by the film industry to describe a 3 month arc of approximately 13 episodes.

[MisaForever]

French for "Course"... used by the film industry to describe a 3 month arc of approximately 13 episodes.

Thank you Senpai!

[Roy Focker]

My favorite battle scene is when Keith yelled

"Scissor me timbers!"

[UN Spacy]

Wow subs are out quick.

They'll have to suffice until the official Bluray/DVD's with English subs (that several of our very own MW members helped work on).

Support the Macross franchise!

[David Hingtgen]

I wanna know how Mirage's ears fit into little round human-spec earmuffs.

[cwmodels]

WOW... just saw the subs and things just... HAPPENS...

They worry about Hayate losing control from Freyja's singing so she has trouble singing.

Then they tell her to sing for real and she did and Hayate loses control.

But Haya-Haya then snaps out of it from getting a robo-hug and says "I will never lose control again!"

HOW THE F*CK CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT??????

F*CK... This kind of writing just lacks of any coherence or logic.