some basic model building help (Bandai Sv-262 / Hasegawa VF-25G)

[whistler]

hey guys

so i ordered some new fighter kits (Hasegawa 1/72 Super VF-25G and the Bandai SV-262H) and i have to say i am feeling a bit overwhelmed. back when Frontier was out and i had funds i wasn't able to get myself a Valk of my own, so when i saw the -25 kit while looking at -262s... well, i jumped on both. i have a decent amount of experience with making/painting pewter tabletop minis (Battletech specifically) and i thought that would prepare me for these projects but now that i am looking through the kits (the Messiah in particular) i am not so sure. since i can't read Japanese very well (let's be honest, at all) i figured i would turn to you guys for some advice, both basic and specific. for easy organization (i hope) i am color coding questions for the two models because i do of course realize that these are different types of kits and may well have different requirements.

1. is the colored plastic simply a base coat? both models come in the basic colors that they should be (including the super parts and various portions of the Draken) but there are some extensive painting guides on the -25's instructions and minor ones on the -262.

- an assembly guide for the -262 that i found (http://blog.livedoor.jp/hobisima-rittai/72_Sv-262Hs_2016-08-20) seems to put it together straight away without painting anything or even applying decals. some areas, like the pilot and landing gear, obviously need painting if you want to have them visible. what about the rest of the fighter? can you paint over the plastic without priming? and if you did how would it look? or is the color guide just there in case of touch ups on the main body?

- i found some color chart translations online, but is there one that is specifically for Hasegawa's instructions?

- i have a good deal of (and experience with) acrylic paint. is that what is recommended on these kind of kit or are you supposed to use enamel?

- if the colored plastic is supposed to simply be the surface then should i avoid sanding down bumps and leftover flash? if so what should i use to preserve the surface?

- should i paint everything first and then put it all together, paint after each assembly step, or all at the end?

- how important or helpful would an airbrush be? dont have one but i have been considering a really basic model for some time now so i am constantly wondering if this will be the project that makes me try one.

2. is super glue good enough or should i use something like plastic cement?

3. there are alot of decals. like, a ton. i have some decal setting solution that i can use to make things easier but would there happen to be some kind of tutorial on cutting and maneuvering this many decals? not to mention getting the alignment right.

- the -262 comes with both decals and stickers. why is that? are the decals going to be harder to see once applied or is it just that some people find stickers easier?

i know i need to get some hobby clippers to free the pieces from the spruce but hopefully i can start soon here. if i can come up with any more questions i will be sure to add them. any advice you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated. thanks!

[Mazinger]

Actually I'd like to see the answers to most of these questions too as I'm even more of a n00b to models than whistler here.

[mickyg]

Whistler, you sound a bit like me when I started my first couple of kits! All really good questions, trust me. One thing you need to understand before anything else though - there's no one way to do anything. With the Hasegawa and Bandai, you can use similar approaches but they're completely different beasts and you'd likely be very frustrated if you adopted the same approach to both.

I'll hit on your specific questions in a minute, but here's some very basic guidelines that you probably already knew:

• You'll need glue for he Hasegawa kit
• You won't need glue for the Bandai kit at all, but it can be useful in cases where things might pry open, or you want to avoid ugly seem lines.

Ok, VERY basic. The rest of your questions cover quite a lot so here goes:

1. Is the colored plastic simply a base coat? Yes. You can very happily use the plastic as is. Just bear in mind that plastic will always look like plastic, unless you paint it. For the Bandai kit, there are very good reasons to not paint it. Firstly, if you plan to transform it (like at all, ever) you'll likely end up with paint rubbing or chipping. You can build around that but it's a lot of work.
2. That blog you've referenced does show a quick buildup. But it's not finished. If you look at his VF-31J build, you'll see he built the kit, then spent time painting a few areas and applying decals or stickers. I expect he'll do the same with the Draken in part III of his build.
3. Can you paint over the plastic without priming? and if you did how would it look? or is the color guide just there in case of touch ups on the main body? Yes. Fine. Yes. In more detail, you can definitely paint over the plastic without priming, but the paint might not bite into the plastic very well if you do that. Unless you're going to play with it, in my opinion, priming is unnecessary. Priming does give you a consistent base colour to paint over though,which makes things look a lot more consistent. But priming is also another layer that can potentially hide detail, and on the Bandai, will definitely interfere with the moving parts, causing scraped paint at the very least. The colour guide is there for folks who want to paint the whole thing and want to know what colour it should be. It's not a requirement by any stretch. Think of it as a helpful guide if you want to go that way.
4. I found some color chart translations online, but is there one that is specifically for Hasegawa's instructions? Hasegawa uses Gunze paint callouts. The first column is their Aqueous (acrylic) paint and the second is Mr Color (lacquer) paint.
5. I have a good deal of (and experience with) acrylic paint. is that what is recommended on these kind of kit or are you supposed to use enamel? Again, no right or wrong choice here. It comes down to preference and experience. Different paints have different strengths (sometimes literally). Acrylic is (usually) low odour, low toxicity, easy to clean up, and fairly predictable. The downside is it isn't always very durable. Fine, if you're going to display a model and not handle it. Enamels can be smelly, are not non-toxic, but they dry slowly, give a nice finish, and are reasonably durable. Lacquers are very toxic, smell very strongly, dry extremely fast, can be very unforgiving to work with, but offer a great finish, and are probably the most durable of all paints. They also bite into the plastic better than either of the other two. I don't know what's used on the Yamato/Bandai/Arcadia toys, but my bet would be lacquers because of the durability they offer (I may be wrong).
6. If the colored plastic is supposed to simply be the surface then should i avoid sanding down bumps and leftover flash? if so what should i use to preserve the surface? Up to you. But I'd recommend sanding down anything that shouldn't be there (leftover sprue gate marks, seem lines, flash, etc.) unless you want it to look more like a toy than the real thing. You just have to be very careful and make sure you sand only where you need it. But yes, this is one of the primary reasons why people paint their creations - to hide the flaws introduced when assembling the kit. I'm not sure I follow your question about preserving the surface. If you don't paint, the plastic is pretty durable as is and wouldn't need preserving. If you're applying decals or stickers, then a clear coat is a good idea. That would help preserve the surface.
7. Should i paint everything first and then put it all together, paint after each assembly step, or all at the end? No way to say for sure. Every kit is different. Both kits will have areas where this is possible and places where it would make much more sense to do it after assembly. See what makes sense as you're tackling it. Like I said, there's no right or wrong answer here, only what works best for the person building it.
8. How important or helpful would an airbrush be? dont have one but i have been considering a really basic model for some time now so i am constantly wondering if this will be the project that makes me try one. There are some incredibly talented folks who only use a paint brush (affectionately called "the hairy stick" by some) but I couldn't imagine building a "good" model without my airbrush. If you're only doing detail painting and you stick with the base colour of the kit's plastic, you could certainly get away without one on either kit. Personally, I'd steer you well away from using either kit as a test bed for an airbrush. Buy a cheap kit and practice there first. An airbrush can be wonderful for painting larger areas. But so can a spray can if you're careful.
9. Is super glue good enough or should i use something like plastic cement? Depends. Superglue tends to be very useful for certain things on a model kit. But it's messy, almost never goes where you want it to, can turn an accident into something terrible, very quickly, and it's not very forgiving to work with. Model glues (and there are many types, all of which have there place) work by melting the plastic together, so can offer a much better joint and tend to be a lot easier to work with. The Bandai kit uses a lot of ABS parts though, and model cement doesn't do a whole lot with ABS. As mentioned previously though, for the most part, you can get away with no glue on the Bandai kit. The Hasegawa kit will require it though. And I'd recommend some plastic model cement in a bottle. Revell makes some good stuff with a needle applicator (Contacta is the name of it) and there are some good things that come in glass bottles with applicator brushes. Invest there an learn to use them. They'll become indispensable.
10. There are alot of decals. like, a ton. i have some decal setting solution that i can use to make things easier but would there happen to be some kind of tutorial on cutting and maneuvering this many decals? not to mention getting the alignment right. No "one size fits all" solution here. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say. But a good approach is to use something to help get the decal positioned. Setting solutions are for after it's in place, so make sure you get the right thing for the job. I like to use a bit of Mr Mark setter which appears to be a very thinned down white glue (maybe it is?). It sets very slowly and is a bit slippery. If the decal is going to be a pain to position, I lay down a fair bit of it onto the part beforehand, and gently slide the decal off the backing paper with a wet paint brush. That said, there are numerous tutorials out there (check youtube) on how to apply decals. Soak up as much knowledge as you can and then practice.
11. the -262 comes with both decals and stickers. why is that? are the decals going to be harder to see once applied or is it just that some people find stickers easier? I think it's to give people options. The stickers, as good as they are (and really, they're not bad) have much more trouble sticking to irregular surfaces, or showing the underlying detail beneath the marking. They also don't stretch all that well. Decals are much better here. But decals are fragile, tricky to work with, and not at all forgiving. So bundling both gives the modeller a choice.
12. I know i need to get some hobby clippers to free the pieces from the spruce but hopefully i can start soon here. Not a question but yes! Definitely get a set of good cutters. They'll make your life much easier.

Hope that's of some help to you! Enjoy the build and be sure to share with us what you're doing and any troubles you have. We've got a pretty helpful community here.

[Big s]

As far as cutters I still use a set of cheap finger nail clippers, but a good set of nippers can't hurt.

If your hand brushing skills are great then you may want to use citadel paints for warhammer and other games, but don't run it through an airbrush. Tamiya is really good if you use an airbrush, but not as good by hand.i don't really care for enamels much since they rub off as easily as acrylics. Laquer paints are getting easier to find in hobby shops now that model master started to bottle them and they stick well to plastics and primers but they don't do well by hand although they can be easier to clean up and if you use an acrylic top coat or future before a color change you can erase mistakes with a mild thinner.

You may not need primer, but it helps if the kit has moveable joints.

[seti88]

Hope this helps somewhat...http://gamerabaenre.com/?page_id=1202

[whistler]

mickyg, thank you for spending so much time and effort on your reply... it is very helpful!

the -262 i got to pretty much keep in fighter mode. had i known about the Hasigawa (which of course i only found out about the day after mine was delivered) i might have gone for it instead but i am hoping that they will have the super parts/drones for the Bandai at some point and going by the -25's FAST pack it seems i wouldnt be able to just add them onto one of their kits. but since i am really not planning to transform it i am seriously considering painting it. in the meantime i got myself a Corsair model and am going to use it as a trial run. i am fairly sure i am going to get an airbrush, as i will be able to use it on my Battletech minis and in my painting-painting, but we willl have to see. i might just try and do the Corsair by hand to see what shakes out. so, practice on the Corsair, maybe assemble the -262 (with the option of reselling it or getting a Hasigawa kit), and save the -25 for last. thank you again for your help... fell like i need to reread it a few times here as i am looking over some of the stuff i picked up earlier from Hobby Lobby.

i do actually have some Citadel and Reaper paints i use for my other minis, but i kinda figured they wouldnt go too well with the airbrush. so you're saying the Tamiya paint can just go straight in the airbrush? that would make things easier since they are: 1. fairly easy to get hold of and 2. i am looking at a gravity-fed airbrush so they would seemingly pair well thanks to the dropper style bottle. well, that is at least if i am understanding you correctly and i can just go straight from the bottle.

seti, that link of yours looks to be a great resource. thank you! will be taking a look at all this this week. if i do the assembly on the -262 i will be sure to post it here for you guys to see / judge for yourselves.

[Big s]

If citadel paints are thinned well they won't leave brush strokes that are noticeable. They can also be thinned with water. About fifteen years ago I used them for gundam kits all the time. They clog up an airbrush in no time as a downside.

If you use a good thinner like the x20 for the tamiya paints when airbrushing with tamiya acrylics the paint runs fairly smooth through an airbrush and 91% alcohol that can be bought for a dollar or two is good for cleanup of overspray and can be used to clean the airbrush itself.

It's always good to have something like a cheap kit to test new things on so you don't mess up the kit that you really want to be able to show off.

Good luck and whatever happens remember to have fun.👍

[derex3592]

Tamiya Acrylics do airbrush beautifully, I start with a 50/50 mix with paint and the X-20 thinner and it always just works perfectly. Don't have to be exact on the measuring either. However, I suggest practicing because I find they take a lot more time to airbrush on than enamels. And they will run easier. Many, many, many light coats is the key. I use Windex to clean up.

[whistler]

Big s, can you elaborate some on how to properly thin the Citadel paints? some colors i have had no trouble with out of the pot, while others leave brush strokes no matter how careful i am. some, like reds, dont seem to cover very well, though i guess multiple lawyers are simply required to get the results i want. still one careful layer would be great considering the schemes i am trying to paint.

Edited August 26, 2016 by whistler