Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 20 - READ 1st POST

[Saruta]

Chaos as a PMC is a poorly run entity where members have little sense of work ethics and professionalism. IE. they do things when they feel like it and have basically little discipline when it comes to their emotions.

Which might be one of the best parts of the story.

Post Frontier note: PMC OPed, nerf. Delta: PMC nerfed.

It's a backwater PMC, run around *singers*. And this sort of character is what singers can be notorious for. Yeah, not Mikumo, because she is whatever she is. But Mikumo and Messer were the people trying to beat some form of order into Chaos. Now Messer is dead and Mikumo, even when not unconscious, seems to be going through an identity crisis. So it's a bunch of lads and a bunch of singers. And that's all there is to it, apparently.

Isamu would love this org. He'd fly the way he wants to (while teaching rookies in a very confusing way) and strike it up with more than one Walkure member - perhaps he'd aim for Makina AND Reina? Oh, also he'd kick Keith out of the sky just for the sheer fun. Whether he saves him then depends on Isamu's mood at the moment (assuredly not on politics). But in general this org seems like it's run on Isamu's principles. After this, I do wonder how Isamu fit into the stricter SMS.

Oh and on that topic, it would really be great if Lady M was Myung. Because I'd totally love seeing her KICK ASS for once. She has the brains and she has the guts. She can do much more than just save one loose cannon pilot from her own Vocaloid. (As an aside I still think Sharon was more misguided and confused than malicious).

Edited August 17, 2016 by Saruta

[Aye Aye]

Haven't been posting, but have been voting along for each episode, but after this drivel in ep.20...

As a whole Delta has been a train wreck at this point. The last two episodes in particular have been nonsensical and have dimished the series as a whole. I honestly felt, given the long exposition periods the 2nd cour has been rambling on through, the story had been getting better. However, these last two episodes in particular (especially ep19) have been a major smh moment for me.

I do like the idea of more Macross OVAs, especially a more serious toned, combat epic (a'la like Gundam's OVA success rate), as going between 6-7 years for new Macorss series releases, and the payoff is Delta (!) leaves little faith in the team's ability to execute on their story concepts. Now I am not going to give this the big send off just yet, as we still have about 5-6 episodes to go here, but things are not looking good my friends.

[IXTL]

Subs are out.

[joonbug]

Which might be one of the best parts of the story.

Post Frontier note: PMC OPed, nerf. Delta: PMC nerfed.

It's a backwater PMC, run around *singers*. And this sort of character is what singers can be notorious for. Yeah, not Mikumo, because she is whatever she is. But Mikumo and Messer were the people trying to beat some form of order into Chaos. Now Messer is dead and Mikumo, even when not unconscious, seems to be going through an identity crisis. So it's a bunch of lads and a bunch of singers. And that's all there is to it, apparently.

Isamu would love this org. He'd fly the way he wants to (while teaching rookies in a very confusing way) and strike it up with more than one Walkure member - perhaps he'd aim for Makina AND Reina? Oh, also he'd kick Keith out of the sky just for the sheer fun. Whether he saves him then depends on Isamu's mood at the moment (assuredly not on politics). But in general this org seems like it's run on Isamu's principles. After this, I do wonder how Isamu fit into the stricter SMS.

Oh and on that topic, it would really be great if Lady M was Myung. Because I'd totally love seeing her KICK ASS for once. She has the brains and she has the guts. She can do much more than just save one loose cannon pilot from her own Vocaloid. (As an aside I still think Sharon was more misguided and confused than malicious).

Lady M, my speculation would be Grace from the Frontiers series...

[Ghostbear0]

I have no clue on Lady M. Burger and the weasel faces NUNs guy seemed to know who she is so she's not a particularly shadowy character. That points to her being a new character but if that's the case why haven't we been introduced to the ecintric leader of Chaos? She sounds neat. The payoff window on this particular teese seems to have passed.

[Roy Focker]

Watched it and gave it a neutral review. Which as you know the highest I give this series. I was expecting to be bad but it wasn't. Okay the animation was bad, there was no mecha action but I felt they were able to pay enough attention to every plot point this time. My biggest beef was the whole Mikumo angle.

I don't understand Walkure cloak and dagger activities in this episode. They work for the good guys. Arad and that big Zentradi Captain that's in charge and seems pretty chill. Then why does Walkure have to sneak behind their backs?

[Valkyrie addict]

It amazes me how they've taken the last 5 episodes for some sort of "character development" and "plot advance" and yet, next to little of this has been properly done. The love triangle is ridiculously one sided, WIndereme plans make little sense at all, Hayate and Freija are still the little kids from the 1st episodes, MIrage is still the insecure introvert, stupid hacking and Mikumo is still a "mystery", also NUNS, why introduce a shady corrupted NUNS for then to just be toss aside? Pretty much the only thing interesting is the arms dealer who works for both sides.

[terry the lone wolf]

I was wondering why I haven't seen Macross Delta since ep.16 but after reading these posts it all makes sense now..

[DJ_Convoy]

After 20 weeks... I still don't know what to make of the show.

I despised the first episode. Just loathed it. The subsequent episodes with the additions of Ragna, Chaos and the Elysion made me think "okay, this is getting more Macross-like," even if I still had misgivings.

The love triangle was very obvious... but was SO slow to develop. It's almost like they forgot they had to have one, and have shoehorned it in the last five or six episodes. "Oh, yeah... two of these kids have to get together!" A love triangle where two parts of it slowly realized it was becoming a love triangle and the third part was completely oblivious to it.

The character designs are off putting (to me, anyway)... not just for Walkure, but for pretty much everybody.

The Windemeran Knights are sort of interesting as antagonists... but I can't stand their getups and they are mostly bland from a character standpoint. It is interesting that they use song against the heroes... but nothing else about them is particularly exciting save maybe their connection to the Protoculture. Maybe a bit of the palace intrigue. I find it difficult to believe that their air force could help take over a huge chunk of the galaxy. It is kinda cool that the bad guys are good pilots with Valks for a change.

The idea of someone in the Macross universe militarizing or weaponzing music makes sense (they did it in 7, after all)... but Walkure just isn't especially interesting. I'm not particularly invested in them or Mikumo's mystery. I can barely name all of the Walkure characters... they are mostly ciphers. You've got the two in a relationship (one's a sullen hacker... and I don't remember what the zoftig one does for Chaos... oh, is she the mechanic?), the one that used to lead the band (an interesting idea, but it's not been touched on since it was introduced), Mikomo, who's good at everything but mysterious, and Freyja. Freyja is not a horrible character, but I don't really feel like I need to root for her. Mirage is fairly bland, but, again, not a horrible character. I don't feel like I need to root for her. Hayate is fine, I suppose. I do like the revelation about his father (with presumably more to come)... but other than that he's generic Macross "I must fly" man.

The mecha action is... all right, I suppose. Coming off of Frontier which often had good to excellent battles, it's not really that great in comparison.

The music is nowhere near as good in Frontier. Full stop. I have enjoyed a couple of songs, but that's about it.

The show is poorly paced. I don't think many would disagree with that. When we do get character driven stories, they often seem forced. While I liked Hayate giving Freyja snow for her birthday, for instance, it just felt so forced. "They've been friends for awhile, but we have to make a reason for Freyja to really love him."

When it's good, it's good... but the show is often just treading water and not really advancing. We have a number of mysteries on our hands... and it's not like I really have a burning desire to see them resolved.

I certainly don't hate the show, but I wish that the pacing and plotting issues could have been resolved*. They've a lot to cram into the last few episodes.

*Frontier had wonky pacing sometimes, as well, but when it ramped up for the end, it really ramped up

Edited August 17, 2016 by DJ_Convoy

[tout-puissant]

We've still got five episodes to go. Frontier this ain't, but in the latter half of Frontier there were also a couple episodes which didn't seem to be going anywhere. Obviously there's an endgame here, and I'm sure it'll make up for SOME of the disappointment everyone's expressing here for the middling middle episodes, but still... While it may still be above average IMO for a mecha-based anime series, Frontier this ain't.

Mark

[Roy Focker]

So with heavy editing could all the episodes be cut down to a single 90 minute movie that'll make more sense than the entire series?

[squaresphere]

So with heavy editing could all the episodes be cut down to a single 90 minute movie that'll make more sense than the entire series?

That would probably be the best format. At least they could explain the lack of character growth by just saying they didn't have time.

My thoughts on the episode... It could have been jump cut out like we saw from the early in the season and nothing would have been lost.

[Ghostbear0]

Nah this episode is ok just everything in it and last episode should have been woven together with a little more conceeat information mixed in. Basiicly have the rest and hacking start last episode reveil some of the recap stuff through that. Maybe have a meeting between Burger and the leadership that leaves the end of last ep as Kaname deciding to work with makirrina instaid of ratting them out. This episode could have followed with mostly more of the same and ended as it did. Because the Mikumo in a tank thing would have been a big reveal after two episodes of what the he'll is Mikumo. Instead of you know A THING THEY ALREADY SHOWED US 👿!!!

Edited August 17, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[Zinjo]

The show is poorly paced. I don't think many would disagree with that. When we do get character driven stories, they often seem forced. While I liked Hayate giving Freyja snow for her birthday, for instance, it just felt so forced. "They've been friends for awhile, but we have to make a reason for Freyja to really love him."

*Frontier had wonky pacing sometimes, as well, but when it ramped up for the end, it really ramped up

Well, character driven stories that are shoe horned into a predetermined timeline always seem "forced", because the characters (as we've come to understand them) are not acting in a believable way according to their own character.

Sometimes you need to adjust the timeline to accommodate the characters or change your characters (right back to the beginning) to accommodate your timeline. You can't have both and expect the story to hold up properly.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Zinjo

[Bryan Cranston]

Mirage said that there are some things you have to do, even if it hurts, like singing or flying. We've all got that one thing in our lives, and it's given me a lot of pause thinking about what that means for me. In the end, I think it would have to be watching Macross. Sometimes it hurts and sometimes you want to quit, but in the end it's what you have to do, otherwise you wouldn't be you!

[Saruta]

Positive. Watched after subs came out and it was, in my opinion, better than the spoilers here made it out to be.

It is pretty clear that Chaos is falling apart at the seams without Messer and Mikumo. I wrote about it here before watching (suibs were not out). But what I saw now is that it is being played very deliberately, with Kaname name-dropping Messer at just the right time.

It's high time Macross did such very imperfect protagonists!

[Seto Kaiba]

It is pretty clear that Chaos is falling apart at the seams without Messer and Mikumo. I wrote about it here before watching (suibs were not out). But what I saw now is that it is being played very deliberately, with Kaname name-dropping Messer at just the right time.

IMO, it's pretty clear Xaos (official subs spelling) was an unholy mess even with Messer and Mikumo at the top of their game... they're not a super-elite unit, they're the Wal-Mart of mercenaries.

Name-dropping Messer will always fall flat. Kaname may care about him, but it's almost impossible for the audience to because his one character trait is that the stick up his ass had a stick up its ass.

[Dash]

Worst episode of the series so far so I gave it a negative vote, and next one doesn't look like it'll be good either

IMO, it's pretty clear Xaos (official subs spelling) was an unholy mess even with Messer and Mikumo at the top of their game... they're not a super-elite unit, they're the Wal-Mart of mercenaries.

Name-dropping Messer will always fall flat. Kaname may care about him, but it's almost impossible for the audience to because his one character trait is that the stick up his ass had a stick up its ass.

I don't know about that, in the latest Macross Delta character poll, Messer was number 5 overall and the top ranked male character above Hayate and Keith (not like he has too much competition though), and apparently the number of fanart made for Messer and Kaname as a couple more than doubles the ones for Hayate and Freyja.

Also there's this hahaha:

[kalvasflam]

Having finally viewed this episode with subs, I gave it a MEGA THUMBS UP... you know why? Cause Heinz sang something other than his usual Jingle F***** Bells... Don't know why I didn't catch it before. I was so shocked that I almost fell out of my chair. THUMBS WAYYYYYY UP. You go, Heinz, get some range.

As for the rest of the show... meh. Hope Mikumo gets a new song... may be their version of Lion???? Then have each of the Walkure do a solo... speaking of which, I haven't heard Reina and Makina do solo version of Giraffe Blues or even Ikenai Borderline... I demand to hear the solo versions, that should kill at least another two episodes.

Edited August 18, 2016 by kalvasflam

[SuperHobo]

Having finally viewed this episode with subs, I gave it a MEGA THUMBS UP... you know why? Cause Heinz sang something other than his usual Jingle F***** Bells... Don't know why I didn't catch it before. I was so shocked that I almost fell out of my chair. THUMBS WAYYYYYY UP. You go, Heinz, get some range.

As for the rest of the show... meh. Hope Mikumo gets a new song... may be their version of Lion???? Then have each of the Walkure do a solo... speaking of which, I haven't heard Reina and Makina do solo version of Giraffe Blues or even Ikenai Borderline... I demand to hear the solo versions, that should kill at least another two episodes.

Jingle F****** bells that's what it's called. Song of the wind is too fancy.

[kalvasflam]

Jingle F****** bells that's what it's called. Song of the wind is too fancy.

That's right, the proper song of the wind is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bigswc0BMvk

Not the stuff ketchup boy is singing... if if you play it in stacatto, doesn't sound anything like it.

[aurance]

I hate that kid. I hate everyone! Except Mirage. And maybe Kaname.

[cwmodels]

Mirage said that there are some things you have to do, even if it hurts, like singing or flying. We've all got that one thing in our lives, and it's given me a lot of pause thinking about what that means for me. In the end, I think it would have to be watching Macross. Sometimes it hurts and sometimes you want to quit, but in the end it's what you have to do, otherwise you wouldn't be you!

Bryan Cranston, I love it every time you comment!

[cwmodels]

What I said about last episode...

An info dump like this is actually consider bad writing because it shows that they have no clever ways to integrate all the necessary information piece by piece into the natural flow of the story. And is that Berger guy really necessary to show up and tell us everything in such straightforward manner? They could've easy structured this episode with the Walkurie members feeling suspicious about the events from last episode (especially with Arad and Kagame's conversation regarding hiding secrets) and have Reina & Makina do some hacking and espionage to find out all of this within Chaos. Everybody could've played a part in it without having to just stand around listening to some theory! Did they forget that all these girls have exceptional abilities? Character development can be done without the need of shady guy showing up and hogging up all the scenes. You have so many characters in the show already SO USE THEM in a fun or interesting way instead of shoving them aside for someone that the audience generally don't give a rats ass about.

So they pretty much did it in this episode. But you found out the girls aren't really all that exceptional in their skillz. And everybody still spent a good chunk of the episode standing around talking. it also makes me think last episode is kind of a useless recaps episode now.

Delta is starting to venture into the "frustration television" territory.

[bbrain]

Subs are out.

i wish they never came out...

I feel they are trying to lose viewers in order to make a comeback..

Edited August 18, 2016 by bbrain

[Einherjar]

Best girl strikes back hard this week. Though I don't think Hayate was being serious about quitting. You know, playing it up for Freyja's sake.

This feels like a 36 episode show.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Einherjar

[Raptor One]

Episode was fine, was expecting far worse. Honestly to me episode 18 was the weakest of the series so far. I'd prefer exposition and character work over that overly-dramatic lightshow nonsense.

The funny thing is delta's feels a bit like IBO or 85th MS team or one of the smaller tighter stories but spread over a grander conflict than the origional macross.

Damn, I wish Delta is as good as IBO was. And 08th MS Team? Pssh

Having finally viewed this episode with subs, I gave it a MEGA THUMBS UP... you know why? Cause Heinz sang something other than his usual Jingle F***** Bells... Don't know why I didn't catch it before. I was so shocked that I almost fell out of my chair. THUMBS WAYYYYYY UP. You go, Heinz, get some range.

Hahaha! Yo I soon as Heinz started signing I was about to shout "Learn a new song!" at him, but then he did!

[SuperHobo]

Let's not drag gundam into this. But MS08th team was the far superior product. I really don't like how Delta's 2nd half feels like IBO's boring meandering in space. I just hope by the time Delta ends, it has a large effect on the macross universe as whole. I don't want Xaos just to take back Ragna, defeat the windemeres and call it a day.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SuperHobo

[grigolosi]

And I present the most exciting scene in this weeks episode thanks to Gamlins expertise in GIF's.......next to Heinz learning a new song

Edited August 18, 2016 by grigolosi

[trojan_gambit]

- It's war time, but I don't feel they are (both sides of them) on alert or something. They stil dilly dally around.

- So far I don't see why the writer made Mirage as a Jenius. The way the show is now, she could be anyone else and still doesn't effect anything. The lack of combat scene also prevent her from developing piloting skill.

[eko.prasetiyo]

can someone count how many macross cannon firing during eps 1 - 20 on macross frontier?

cause we only have 1 macross firing in delta

[Ghostbear0]

Let's not drag gundam into this. But MS08th team was the far superior product. I really don't like how Delta's 2nd hald feels like IBO's boring meandering in space. I just hope by the time Delta ends, it has a large effect on the macross universe as whole. I don't want Xaos just to take back Ragna, defeat the windemeres and call it a day.

I guess I didn't say that clearly. It feels like Delta has about as much story as 85th MS Team and then spread it over the whole one year war. Though that's not even the best way to say it. Got it Delta is the story of delta squadron the same as SDFM was the story of Vermilion squadron. We've got more time with our little group but they feel like they have less character because the world around them feels so empty. Maybe.. ish. Its a fight over an area with more planets than it feels like they have participants. Feel free to be confused I don't think I'm explaining this to well.

[aurance]

And I present the most exciting scene in this weeks episode thanks to Gamlins expertise in GIF's.......next to Heinz learning a new song

Yaaaasss

[Aries Turner]

Wow. Even I, who tries to stay optimistic for every episode found this one sub-par. The animation quality was terrible and lacking any detail and seemed like nothing but 20 minutes of dialogue.

That could actually mean that next episodes get all the workforce.

[Roy Focker]

I have a feeling we are starting to turn against this show out of frustration. I've made it clear I was never a big fan. I've tried to judge each episode own its own. I gave this episode a neutral vote. Right now the Positive side has the fewest number of votes. I think people who have been with the series are frustrated by how things turned during the second half. The first half delivered so much more. By episode 20 people are expecting so much more.