Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 20 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

It would have been better to have "clues" and foreshadowing leading up to a few "aha" moments amidst the action.

I think that's what we're missing. Those "A-HA!"-moments. I would say since they left Ragna, the show has been lagging. They could have sprinkled moments into the past 7 episodes instead of shoving into the past 2 episodes which is likely causing that dragging feeling.

[Ghostbear0]

There is a subtle difference between building suspense and withholding information and Delta tends to fall toward the latter. That and this is the third or fourth time we've gotten efectivly the same cliffhanger multiple episodes in a row. Pacing on this show is weird.

[guyxxed]

Agreed. Frontier was a much more balanced package than Delta has so far been. It's ironic, since Delta has (imho) a much better constructed premise and cast so characters than Frontier did. Too bad they've failed to do much with them so far.

[Zinjo]

Agreed. Frontier was a much more balanced package than Delta has so far been. It's ironic, since Delta has (imho) a much better constructed premise and cast so characters than Frontier did. Too bad they've failed to do much with them so far.

Different batch of episode writers it would appear. SK provides the outline and the writers, write it... The format isn't really to blame as it can work, but the episodes need to be deliberately constructed to act like sequences of an overall story.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Zinjo

[Roy Focker]

I haven't watched this episode yet. As of this post only 28 members have voted and the majority 39% have a negative opinion of this episode. Usually most of the early voting is positive. After viewing the pilot episode I thought the biggest problem would be super-powered singing idols. Instead the series greatest weakness are a lack of mecha action, inability to juggle multiple characters and multiple story lines. I doubt Delta will become a critical success. Could become a commercial success if it helps to drive doll and music sales.

[crixskn]

How they keep treating or mistreating Mirage is one the biggest problems. Too much of what happens in her mind is not told and we have to guess instead.

And the Windermereans are underdeveloped as hell. I kept thinking they wanted the audience to empatize with them but Cassim/Herman are basically the only redeemable ones and with some brains.

[David Hingtgen]

Still no subs? Doesn't sound like I'm missing much. 20 eps in, I was *much* more invested into Frontier's story and characters. (and valks, and battles, and songs...)

[Sandman]

Yeah I have to agree. I watched an episode of frontier the other day and I was impressed with how much better it seemed than delta. What is really noticeable is the background music. It's really good compared to delta which I don't even notice the bgm.

Delta is not really selling up its valks either. Frontier made the 25 look cool with all the add ons. Made me want to get them all. Delta hasn't really shown anything other than the forgettable sound booster. They aren't even capitalizing on the swappable pods.

[David Hingtgen]

They're not even capitalizing on the fact that they can TRANSFORM. Might as well just have F-22's flying around...

[Saruta]

I haven't watched this episode yet. As of this post only 28 members have voted and the majority 39% have a negative opinion of this episode. Usually most of the early voting is positive. After viewing the pilot episode I thought the biggest problem would be super-powered singing idols. Instead the series greatest weakness are a lack of mecha action, inability to juggle multiple characters and multiple story lines. I doubt Delta will become a critical success. Could become a commercial success if it helps to drive doll and music sales.

I suspect they trolled us with superpowered idols, generated the early flames, then intentionally nerfed them all, except Mikumo.

I mean, MakiMaki and ReiRei make up for it with sheer yuri (they make up for everything, including very Hollywood-y hacking, with sheer yuri anyway). And Freyja and Kaname have their power moments when they feel for a person, though Freyja is not exactly sure what she is doing. Still, there are no "sailor-type" idols, this problem turned out to be not very real. (They do have plot armour in the form of Bogue taking way too much time to aim and trying to hit from way too close range, but what do you expect).

Mikumo was not nerfed but she appears to be becoming a walking, singing plot device. (Macguffin, in TV Tropes parlance).

I do agree that the writers are not great at juggling story lines and routinely fail to flesh out characters. Hayate and Freyja got more or less proper character development, for the rest is seems to be going in an awkward, piecemeal fashion.

The amount of hidden and semi-hidden references to previous Macross media was heartening. (Like that moment when Hayate taking after his father was discussed, and there was Mirage looking uncomfortable - specially for the Macross fan to catch the "she is a Jenius and she is thinking how she failed to take after her grandparents properly"). But they had to go and add the super-mini-spoiler. Undoubtedly not the FULL spoiler - it does not give the actual M7 resolution and the Frontier resolution is very minimally discussed - but a spoiler nevertheless, perhaps most painfully for M+ where the hypno is supposed to be happening suddenly.

They're not even capitalizing on the fact that they can TRANSFORM. Might as well just have F-22's flying around...

I was actually thinking of a WW2 rewrite fanfic. (Ragna=France or a region therein). Exactly because pilots will still be pilots, You have to think something up about the power of music and what th replace the Var with, but the rest can slot in and one does not even have to change Freyja Wion's name. Pilots will be pilots and the variable mecha stuff, the super size Zentradi stuff - all of that is just not there.

Of course this will have to wait for the end of the series to evaluate plausibility.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Saruta

[Roy Focker]

I wasn't a very big fan of Frontier either. I felt the character designs were pandering to anime fans. They covered just about every fetish for an endless supply of hentai material. Frontier also had a very modern weird anime plot and characters who acted as stereotypes. All things the Delta has as well. The redeeming feature of the Frontier is that it had plenty of mecha action, great music and likeable characters.

I have a feeling that when Delta ends it will either feel unfinished or a conclusion the felt rushed.

Macross Delta an epic space drama where characters chit-chat while doing mundane real world activities. Sometimes they almost do something exciting or but then the closing song starts.

[grigolosi]

Yeah I have to agree. I watched an episode of frontier the other day and I was impressed with how much better it seemed than delta. What is really noticeable is the background music. It's really good compared to delta which I don't even notice the bgm.

Delta is not really selling up its valks either. Frontier made the 25 look cool with all the add ons. Made me want to get them all. Delta hasn't really shown anything other than the forgettable sound booster. They aren't even capitalizing on the swappable pods.

Definitley agree with you on that. I did the same last week, actually I watched the first 17 episodes of MF over the weekend. They seemed to have put more work into Frontier on all levels. I actually find the VF-25 more aesthetically pleasing to look at than the 31. To me the 25 looks like a killing machine. It has more of a lethal grace to it. The 31 looks like it can't wait to put on an airshow demo for you. Probably because of the lack of weapon load outs we have seen on it.

I do like the music for Frontier far better. Even the BGM is far better IMOP.

[aurance]

You know, I used to avoid spoliers for this show... Now I just don't care. By this point in the series MacFrontier had already hooked me pretty good, but with Delta not so much. It's running out of time.

[Heron]

Agian seeing Walkure Live this past week, Delta is more about launching a real world Macross Idol group for commercial success than about an anime and it is showing in the level of animation, disjointedness and pacing on this episode. However, on the product side you see Walkure everywhere and now they have a second album dropping in September. I am assuming most of the funds are going to their real world development.

[Zinjo]

Agian seeing Walkure Live this past week, Delta is more about launching a real world Macross Idol group for commercial success than about an anime and it is showing in the level of animation, disjointedness and pacing on this episode. However, on the product side you see Walkure everywhere and now they have a second album dropping in September. I am assuming most of the funds are going to their real world development.

So then it really IS the spiritual sequel to M7 after all!

Thank God it is only 25 episodes...

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Heron]

So then it really is the spiritual sequel to M7 after all!

Sure but to be honest I enjoyed M7 much more so than I am enjoying Delta.

And I enjoy Walkure. I think they're a great idea given the state of the fandoms in Japan at the moment. Even if I do feel like an Uncle for supporting them.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Heron

[Zinjo]

Sure but to be honest I enjoyed M7 much more so than I am enjoying Delta.

I can't say the same. M7 was too long and because of it, too repetitive. I also hated the 2 dimensional hero of Basara. The supporting cast I enjoyed far more.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Junna and Minori Suzuki are getting their starts from this, but it was mentioned a while back that it might be more difficult to keep the whole group together for the long term, since the other three VAs have existing careers.

[Zinjo]

Junna and Minori Suzuki are getting their starts from this, but it was mentioned a while back that it might be more difficult to keep the whole group together for the long term, since the other three VAs have existing careers.

Well with Junna's English, she could be on her way to international recognition. Minori, will certainly have a singing career after this, but I don't see the same potential as Junna at this point. On a further note, if May'n studied her English she certainly has the pipes for international success.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Ghostbear0]

I can't say the same. M7 was too long and because of it, too repetitive. I also hated the 2 dimensional hero of Basara. The supporting cast I enjoyed far more.

Basara isn't the hero My land and Gamlin are. Basara is a force of nature. 7 is much more enjoyable if you think of it as Mylene and Gamlins syrugle to guid the avatar of Rock & Roll into the path of Chthulu. 7 dragged a bit in parts but didn't have the weird pacing hiccups Delta has. Edited August 16, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[Zinjo]

Basara isn't the hero My land and Gamlin are. Basara is a force of nature. 7 is much more enjoyable if you think of it as Mylene and Gamlins syrugle to guid the avatar of Rock & Roll into the path of Chthulu. 7 dragged a bit in parts but didn't have the weird pacing hiccups Delta has.

No it was just very environmental: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle... which made it possible to turn a 25 episode series into 49 episodes.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[kalvasflam]

They're not even capitalizing on the fact that they can TRANSFORM. Might as well just have F-22's flying around...

except with just F-22; it would be even more boring, nothing but BVR engagements.

Well, here is hoping for more useful battroid action, not, let me take two seconds to transform when I don't need to do it, to strike a cool pose, and giving the enemy time to shoot the gun out of my hand.

I wasn't a very big fan of Frontier either. I felt the character designs were pandering to anime fans. They covered just about every fetish for an endless supply of hentai material. Frontier also had a very modern weird anime plot and characters who acted as stereotypes. All things the Delta has as well. The redeeming feature of the Frontier is that it had plenty of mecha action, great music and likeable characters.

I have a feeling that when Delta ends it will either feel unfinished or a conclusion the felt rushed.

Macross Delta an epic space drama where characters chit-chat while doing mundane real world activities. Sometimes they almost do something exciting or but then the closing song starts.

I know Frontier was pandering, but I liked it. Even all the extra fan service was helpful. I think in Delta, you could've taken out the triangle, and focused on Mikumo, and it would've been a great show. This could've been fantastic if the show was truly song focused, and the Valks play a background role, and even in combat. But the mix... arrrgh... let's be everything to everyone and please NO ONE.

[aurance]

Basara isn't the hero My land and Gamlin are. Basara is a force of nature. 7 is much more enjoyable if you think of it as Mylene and Gamlins syrugle to guid the avatar of Rock & Roll into the path of Chthulu. 7 dragged a bit in parts but didn't have the weird pacing hiccups Delta has.

It was stretched out way too long, but I agree - Basara isn't really a "character" in terms of how he works in the story.

[Zinjo]

It was stretched out way too long, but I agree - Basara isn't really a "character" in terms of how he works in the story.

Basara as a plot device, I get it, but as the main hero character, I hated it. I don't want superman flying a valk and singing the same few songs in my ear every episode...

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Ghostbear0]

Planet Dance..... I have never hated a song I actually kinda like so very much.

[azrael]

Thank God it is only 25 episodes...

I think that's going to be something that plays against this series rather than a highlight. This episode really hasn't helped the overall picture of the show. Looking back at episode 20 of Frontier, we were pushing more than 4x the number of posts in 1 day on Frontier than we are with Delta, and that's even without subs (Michael also died in that episode). Commercially, the show has been good. Critically, this show, especially this 2nd half, has been a narrative bore. And for all the reasons we've been yapping for weeks now. I think this show will finish up in the remaining episodes, but we're not going to like the rest of the ride.

[Zinjo]

Planet Dance..... I have never hated a song I actually kinda like so very much.

Yeah, given some distance I can appreciate it now...

[Roy Focker]

Still no subs. Still waiting for them before watching.

[Zinjo]

I think that's going to be something that plays against this series rather than a highlight. This episode really hasn't helped the overall picture of the show. Looking back at episode 20 of Frontier, we were pushing more than 4x the number of posts in 1 day on Frontier than we are with Delta, and that's even without subs (Michael also died in that episode). Commercially, the show has been good. Critically, this show, especially this 2nd half, has been a narrative bore. And for all the reasons we've been yapping for weeks now. I think this show will finish up in the remaining episodes, but we're not going to like the rest of the ride.

Perhaps it's a testment against rushing the next series out. I think SK needs to open up the narrative to other writers, not necessarily in terms of growing the universe per se, but at least in expanding it with dramatic OVA's taking place in already established eras. This will keep the franchise alive between TV broadcasts which may take years to effectively develop.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Sandman]

Yeah it's be nice nice if Macross did what Gundam is doing. A tv series for the mainstream and OVAs geared toward fans of the original series.

[Ghostbear0]

The funny thing is delta's feels a bit like IBO or 85th MS team or one of the smaller tighter stories but spread over a grander conflict than the origional macross.

[NightmarePlus]

The funny thing is delta's feels a bit like IBO or 85th MS team or one of the smaller tighter stories but spread over a grander conflict than the origional macross.

Nah, a Macross OVA where the story is told from the point of view of a group of standard NUNS pilots would have more of a 8th MS team feel to it.

[Ghostbear0]

Obviosly, but I was thinking more the we've stayed with the same small group on both sides thing. It's not the best comparison but it feels like a fight being waged across across more planets than we have active participants and I've never watched a show like that and probably wouldn't be wathing this one if it wasn't Macross. (Maybe I am a sucker for all forms of mechs.)

Edited August 17, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[BlueMax]

Neutral vote, bordering on negative. If I were a new comer to the series, the last 3-4 episodes would have put me off the series altogether. I'm only still in this because I am a a Macross fan. I'm in it for the Valkyries, I'm in it for VF combat, i'm in it for good songs, and a good story.

So far, after episode 13, we haven't have had much of these: The VFs were barely there, they were mostly sitting in their hangers, the songs don't really do it for me, and although there might be a good story, the pacing absolutely kills it.

The episode sees too much moping around, and by the time something exciting actually happens, sorry, time's up. Grrr!

I'm not even going to put spoiler tags because there is nothing much to spoil: 1/2 the people are moping around because of last episodes reveal, and pretty much the other 1/2 of the people are trying to reach Mikumo in the Hospital ship late in the episode.

That is all the episode is all about.

Plain boring and Chaos as a PMC is a poorly run entity where members have little sense of work ethics and professionalism. IE. they do things when they feel like it and have basically little discipline when it comes to their emotions.

[Saruta]

No it was just very environmental: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle... which made it possible to turn a 25 episode series into 49 episodes.

Yup. I'd love to have the 25 episode version of M7. Ideally with new music (not "new new" of course, but "new to the series, from the Fire Bomber albums") generously sprinkled in.

They seem to be fixing these particular issues in Delta. Unfortunately, even though JUNNA is totally awesome (and double so if you remember she's 15), she is not Fukuyama. And the writing...