Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 20 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Delta Episode 20 Talkback Thread

Guidelines:

• Macross Delta episode file requests, file offers or any audio/video sharing links of any kind or format are not permitted anywhere on the forum except by Boinger in the iMacross thread. This is 2016, not 2007. They know about us and how the 'Net operates now. This includes, but is not limited to BitTorrent files/links, YouTube, Nico, related video-sharing or video streaming site links, File sharing links, full audio soundtracks, etc.. Any user-post in violation of this rule will be deleted without notice. Repeated offenses may result in a ban. DISCUSSION ONLY. Send a PM to Boinger with a link to the file to be added to iMacross.
• This thread only covers the episode listed in the subject. Do not post comments about another episode not covered by this thread. (i.e. References are OK, but do not post a critique about episode 1 when this thread covers episode 999).
• This thread(s) is about current episodes only. Please reserve mecha talk and news talk for their respective threads. Do not cross-post.
• Please reserve all talk about future episode spoilers for the News thread.
• Do not ask when an episode will be aired or released (this includes fansubs).

  Raw files will be release shortly after broadcast. Subtitled versions will be released when they are ready.

• Please use spoiler tags for the first 24-hours after an episode airs. There will be consequences if you don't

New episode threads and polls opens Sundays, 9:00AM EST/6:00AM PST (22:00, i.e. 10:00PM JST), 30 minutes BEFORE the broadcast.

Broadcast schedule:

Sunday: Tokyo MX, 22:30 JST

Monday: TVQ Kyushu, 26:30 (2:30 AM) JST

Tuesday: MBS, 27:00 (3:00 AM) JST / BS11, 24:00 (midnight) JST

Wednesday: d anime store, 12:00 JST / TV Aichi & Television Hokkaido, 26:05 (2:05 AM) JST

(Broadcast times subject to change, Check listings.)

[RedWolf]

Berger's last visit makes Freyja doubt herself as she does not want to hurt Hayate. The test isn't going through because of that. It gets bad to the point both are fighting over who would quit. Mirage straightens them out regardless of her own feelings which makes her the Gamlin of the show. Just do the things you want to do and never waver. What she wants is those that she love's happiness.

On the Aerial Knight side they are discussing about what happened to them on Voldor. The twin starting to think there is something about Mikumo that can affect the Protoculture system. Bogue stupid as ever thinks that is impossible believing it was Freyja as she is a Windermerean. Cassim ties to hide he is deteriorating from Helmann.

Berger gets back with souvenirs from Barrete City but Roid hates it. They talk but Keith comes in.

Heinz gets a new doctor that Keith starts to doubt Roid.

Heinz is wondering what the heck happened before. He meets Helmann's son whose pet bird he tamed with song. Him and Helmann thought he was about to be attacked.

Meanwhile Makina and Reina conspire to meet Mikumo in the hospital ship hacking its systems. Kaname finds out instead of squeeling joins them. Doesn't go as planned as the ship's net security is better than expected. Reina should've known that is possibility as Kaos recruited her after catching her hacking into them. Makina and Reina get arrested but Kaname reaches a sleeping Mikumo. Kaname singing Axia Mikumo responds singing it in her sleep.

[Graham]

So from the above description, it sounds like yet another episode without any mecha action?

[This Confuses Gamlin]

So from the above description, it sounds like yet another episode without any mecha action?

Just Gerwalked Draken background plates standing around the hangar.

You do get...

A few people do get to run around a bit. And Mirage walking into the frame with the camera level with her butt.

[Silverwind]

This was the first time i was meh on an episode......But I guess I gotta be patient and hope these kind of eps. pay off in the end.

[CRYO]

So from the above description, it sounds like yet another episode without any mecha action?

Yes, what a second half without good mech action and very dull so far...

[kuyaaids]

Right now makes me think if it's really a 24 episode series or it has a 2nd season like it's becoming a trend with other anime lately.

[Roy Focker]

That sounds like a lot of stuff going on for a little over 20 minutes of television.

[Master Dex]

I too am having trouble believing this can simply be 20-something episodes long.. but I also know it has happened.. which is kinda depressing the way they are pacing it. This pacing would be a lot more excusable for a 3 or 4 cour series.. but as is known right now... I'm left wondering how they decided on this.

[Gerli]

My God...

Mirage is the only one with a brain in the cast?

The new doctor is human? I didn't see his rune

Also Kaname with loose hair... MYDICKULTURE!!!

Edited August 14, 2016 by Gerli

[kalvasflam]

From the spoilers, it could easily be a 24/25ish episode show. Because let's face it, they are setting up the backstories now. The next two episodes, throw in some mecha action or some such thing. Then one episode to set up the finale, then either one or two episodes about fighting at or near Windermere.... the end. Waiting to see this episode for more on story development.

Mirage is the only with a brain in the cast?

You forgot Bogue, who has been demonstrating brains all along, even today with his nonsense about Freyja... he is on the mark. So far, Freyja is the only one who is supercharging a pilot to kick AK ass. He just have this protoculture ruins thing a bit backwards, but you can forgive him there because he just doesn't know.

[Moosey]

Just this.

[MisaForever]

Wow. Even I, who tries to stay optimistic for every episode found this one sub-par. The animation quality was terrible and lacking any detail and seemed like nothing but 20 minutes of dialogue.

[UN Spacy]

Giving it a neutral...close to negative...I wanna see some SIGGYS!

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Yeah, I really hope that they have made the most of the last two consecutive episodes of not much happening to give the animators plenty of time to do a proper ending, but the second half of the series has been paced terribly by comparison to the first half.

[SuperHobo]

Whelp, after this many build up episodes I'm going to stop watching this show week to week. I'll wait until it finishes and then see if all the build up was worth it. If it ends up a mess I might not even come back to it. The first half was almost everything I wanted in a new macross show, but this 2nd half is everything I don't want in a new macross show. Aquarion Evol, Nobunaga the fool and now Delta. What is happening with Kawamori's shows?

[Marzan]

Not too impressed with this episode to be honest

Found the bit with the Windermereans dull as usual and things only picked up at the end when Mikumo and co. broke into the hospital ship. This is a strange Macross iteration. The 'singers' are more action oriented than the 'pilots' who sit down and talk and awful lot. This bunch needs a visit from Isamu to straigthen them out.

[MisaForever]

Not too impressed with this episode to be honest

Found the bit with the Windermereans dull as usual and things only picked up at the end when Mikumo and co. broke into the hospital ship. This is a strange Macross iteration. The 'singers' are more action oriented than the 'pilots' who sit down and talk and awful lot. This bunch needs a visit from Isamu to straigthen them out.

Agreed 100%

[Seto Kaiba]

All righty... sitting down to view this one on the BIG screen.

All told, I still don't like the design of the hospital ship. It looks more like something that belongs to Gundam than Macross.

's it just me, or did the animation quality take a dive here? Hayate's pendant looks like someone stapled a paper airplane to his jumper during his conversation with Freyja in the corridor.

Like the last episode, this one seems to be trying to make up for time lost on fanservice and superfluous characters by unloading a veritable dumpster of expository dialogue all at once. The pacing in the Macross Frontier series felt pretty natural until the last few episodes when all the loose ends had to be tied up in an almost unseemly rush, but Macross Delta feels like it's having near-constant pacing problems. The series spread its action sequences too thin and wastes tons of time on characters and events that have little or no real relevance to the plot, leading to a show that has horribly inconsistent pacing as lurches between the rushed, almost frantically-paced action sequences and those long, dreary Kojima-esque exposition dumps.

So now Freyja can't sing because she's got the blues over her out-of-control song having hurt Hayate? That kind of takes Walkure out of the fight entirely... given that Makina, Reina, and Kaname are basically just decorative. They have nowhere near the power Mikumo and Freyja do, and can't do a damn thing without amplification, so the chances of them out-singing Heinz are effectively nil.

In typical Macross protagonist fashion, Hayate is too oblivious to notice his single-minded obsession with Freyja is hurting the better girl... Mirage.

Honestly the best part of this episode might be the additional characterization and exposition for the Aerial Knights. They've been a mostly flat ensemble so far, so this really helps. Hermann's got a kid in the Knights, which you bet is going to end badly for him. I'm betting we get a repeat of Sergei and his son from Gundam 00, where the son snuffs it and the dad has to bravely carry on. A little bit of flashback characterization for Keith and Roid isn't unwelcome either.

Makina and Reina are hacking into the hospital ship to try and find Mikumo, and drag Kaname along with them... and screw up almost immediately. I have to admit every time something like this happens, I think back to the fan theory that Xaos is a "discount" PMC. SMS in Frontier was very much the epitome of the fictional PMC, being a privately-funded army made up of elite soldiers who were "too cool for school" and quit the military so they wouldn't be held back from being awesome by things like laws and regulations. Xaos seems more like a real-world PMC... a bunch of barely-competent civilians who are playing dressup, obsessed with the idea that they're the hero in their own personal action movie. Reina is supposed to be Xaos's resident super-hacker, and her grand plan to infiltrate the hospital ship and find out what's up with Mikumo isn't thwarted by cunning electronic security measures or platoons of uncannily alert armed guards... they're defeated by an electronic door lock on the front door and one unarmed rent-a-cop.

When you think about it, it seems like every time Walkure and Delta Flight pulled off any kind of operation that ended in success it was revealed (to the audience) that their success was because Windermere let them win to further their own goals. Xaos seems to have mistaken that chump charity on Windermere's part for their own cleverness.

Go Mirage! Rip into those two mopers and get this show back on track! This is why you're the best girl!

My vote is Negative. If I want a dustbin full of rambling, disjointed, nonsensical exposition upended into my face, I'll put on Metal Gear.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Sandman]

Seriously WTF. There hasn't been any decent mecha action since ep13. The second half of this series is really paced badly. I think we're not going to see any mecha action till the last battle (probably split over the last 2 episodes).

[Ghostbear0]

All righty... sitting down to view this one on the BIG screen.

All told, I still don't like the design of the hospital ship. It looks more like something that belongs to Gundam than Macross.

's it just me, or did the animation quality take a dive here? Hayate's pendant looks like someone stapled a paper airplane to his jumper during his conversation with Freyja in the corridor.

Like the last episode, this one seems to be trying to make up for time lost on fanservice and superfluous characters by unloading a veritable dumpster of expository dialogue all at once. The pacing in the Macross Frontier series felt pretty natural until the last few episodes when all the loose ends had to be tied up in an almost unseemly rush, but Macross Delta feels like it's having near-constant pacing problems. The series spread its action sequences too thin and wastes tons of time on characters and events that have little or no real relevance to the plot, leading to a show that has horribly inconsistent pacing as lurches between the rushed, almost frantically-paced action sequences and those long, dreary Kojima-esque exposition dumps.

So now Freyja can't sing because she's got the blues over her out-of-control song having hurt Hayate? That kind of takes Walkure out of the fight entirely... given that Makina, Reina, and Kaname are basically just decorative. They have nowhere near the power Mikumo and Freyja do, and can't do a damn thing without amplification, so the chances of them out-singing Heinz are effectively nil.

In typical Macross protagonist fashion, Hayate is too oblivious to notice his single-minded obsession with Freyja is hurting the better girl... Mirage.

Honestly the best part of this episode might be the additional characterization and exposition for the Aerial Knights. They've been a mostly flat ensemble so far, so this really helps. Hermann's got a kid in the Knights, which you bet is going to end badly for him. I'm betting we get a repeat of Sergei and his son from Gundam 00, where the son snuffs it and the dad has to bravely carry on. A little bit of flashback characterization for Keith and Roid isn't unwelcome either.

Makina and Reina are hacking into the hospital ship to try and find Mikumo, and drag Kaname along with them... and screw up almost immediately. I have to admit every time something like this happens, I think back to the fan theory that Xaos is a "discount" PMC. SMS in Frontier was very much the epitome of the fictional PMC, being a privately-funded army made up of elite soldiers who were "too cool for school" and quit the military so they wouldn't be held back from being awesome by things like laws and regulations. Xaos seems more like a real-world PMC... a bunch of barely-competent civilians who are playing dressup, obsessed with the idea that they're the hero in their own personal action movie. Reina is supposed to be Xaos's resident super-hacker, and her grand plan to infiltrate the hospital ship and find out what's up with Mikumo isn't thwarted by cunning electronic security measures or platoons of uncannily alert armed guards... they're defeated by an electronic door lock on the front door and one unarmed rent-a-cop.

When you think about it, it seems like every time Walkure and Delta Flight pulled off any kind of operation that ended in success it was revealed (to the audience) that their success was because Windermere let them win to further their own goals. Xaos seems to have mistaken that chump charity on Windermere's part for their own cleverness.

Go Mirage! Rip into those two mopers and get this show back on track! This is why you're the best girl!

My vote is Negative. If I want a dustbin full of rambling, disjointed, nonsensical exposition upended into my face, I'll put on Metal Gear.

To be fair the hospital ships and rent a cop are Chaos to. As always I'm going to hold judgement ti'll I see the subs.... But this I think it is at best going to be the same as every second half episode (barring last week) and be an episode I like on its own but just doesn't work for series paceing.

[azrael]

Quick-viewing.

Just some general comments. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... This is mostly a character episode for Frejya and Hayate. The pacing of this second half of the series has been ridiculously slow.

-Reina....the first thing you're suppose to do is get proper credentials to break in if you're going to send in live bodies.

[Graham]

From the spoilers, it could easily be a 24/25ish episode show. Because let's face it, they are setting up the backstories now. The next two episodes, throw in some mecha action or some such thing. Then one episode to set up the finale, then either one or two episodes about fighting at or near Windermere.... the end. Waiting to see this episode for more on story development.

You forgot Bogue, who has been demonstrating brains all along, even today with his nonsense about Freyja... he is on the mark. So far, Freyja is the only one who is supercharging a pilot to kick AK ass. He just have this protoculture ruins thing a bit backwards, but you can forgive him there because he just doesn't know.

I'm hoping it's 27 episodes, as it's already confirmed as being 9 x discs (3 eps per disc x 9 = 27 eps). But more likely it will be 26 episodes I imagine.

[TehPW]

A few people do get to run around a bit. And Mirage walking into the frame with the camera level with her butt.

I command Thee to create a GIF of this!

[kajnrig]

Binge-watched this and the last episode. My two cents:

- I still hate that this franchise tries to "study" music, or rather, that it tries to treat music as an essential property or law or element of the universe. Given what we know of the variety of music among even just ourselves, it's hard to accept that the Vajra, Protoculture, and fold bacteria all (independently or otherwise) developed musically such that their biggest hits sound coincidentally like J-pop. When music was just a metaphor for cultural exchange in SDFM (and to a lesser extent in DYRL, though that's certainly when the bullshit started), or when it was used to more believable effect as psychological warfare/manipulation in M2 and M+, it wasn't nearly as rife with inconsistencies and self-contradictions. Vajra, Protoculture, and fold bacteria musics just all happen to conform to the conventions of J-pop? Come on.

- Interesting things going on with the main love triangle, but still not enough to qualify it as a true "triangle" to me. Glad Mirage is doing her own thing, love her VA's delivery (especially in the "awkward emotional breakdown by the comatose patient" scene), disappointed in the existence of said comatose patient scene and the use of "daisuki" this episode. If they had to have her talk about love, couldn't they have had her matter-of-factly tell Hayate and Freyja "Yo, you two are madly falling in love with each other, so fight or frakk or do whatever you have to do to resolve this." and then walk away with them none the wiser about her feelings?

- Didn't buy the dramatic build-up surrounding Mikumo. The revelations and rumors about her, yes. The reaction from Walkure, no. I never got a sense of close attachment between herself and any individual member of the group, to say nothing of the group as a whole. I'd have bought them being concerned about her on a professional level, and maybe even on a personal level, but infiltrating a secure facility isn't something you do for everybody.

- Part of me entertained the idea of Mirage being somehow forced into Walkure to replace Mikumo and/or Freyja, and doing a better job of working with Hayate. Would have at least helped fan the flames of jealousy and triangle-ness.

- Kaname and Arad need to frakk. No I will not let this go, they are a veritable gold mine and the creators are doing nothing with them.

- Merchant Guy (forget his name) would have made for a great character to center the anime (or any anime) around.

- Still would have preferred the original competing air shows idea.

[kalvasflam]

I fast forwarded through the ep mostly, I can't believe I just said that about an episode of Macross that I've not seen before... one thought, the Walkure at the end basically raised their hands, but let's face it, what are the redshirts on the hospital ship going to do? Shot them? Give me a break. They could literally slap any of the redshirts, and there wouldn't be a bit of consequence.

The problem with Delta as we've all said before is just way too many interesting characters on one side, and way too many flat characters on the other. They don't have time to focus on them all. They need to stick with a tried and true formula, Triangle, two of three supporting characters (not 8 or 9) that have relevancy to the plot, a reasonably intelligent enemy, and lots of crap blowing up. I watched ep 1, and 3 again, it was perfect in terms of mix of fighter combat, singing, and story telling, somewhere along the way, someone smoked too much crack, and fell off the curb.

[Saruta]

In typical Macross protagonist fashion, Hayate is too oblivious to notice his single-minded obsession with Freyja is hurting the better girl... Mirage.

Are we seriously hearing shots of a shipping war all over again?

(The bad part is that, unlike Frontier, a yuri resolution does not look realistic. There is some teasing on Mikumo/Freyja but not a single hint of Mirage/Freyja... and Mikumo ships Freyja with Hayate, if only because this makes Freyja sing better).

[Saruta]

Removing the spoiler tag as this is really, it seems to me, about ep19 reveal, as I understood it without even watching ep20:

- I still hate that this franchise tries to "study" music, or rather, that it tries to treat music as an essential property or law or element of the universe. Given what we know of the variety of music among even just ourselves, it's hard to accept that the Vajra, Protoculture, and fold bacteria all (independently or otherwise) developed musically such that their biggest hits sound coincidentally like J-pop. When music was just a metaphor for cultural exchange in SDFM (and to a lesser extent in DYRL, though that's certainly when the bullshit started), or when it was used to more believable effect as psychological warfare/manipulation in M2 and M+, it wasn't nearly as rife with inconsistencies and self-contradictions. Vajra, Protoculture, and fold bacteria musics just all happen to conform to the conventions of J-pop? Come on.

But as far as I could understand, we have only one non-human song that sounds like J-Pop. Ai Oboeteimasuka. Possibly also Aimo, but I think that the only Varja part there is the refrain "Aimo" to "Fotomi", the rest is human framing; and the refrain is really very generic, not J-Pop specific.

What the space whales sang was, as far as I can remember, not J-Pop. What Heinz sings is not J-Pop.

And fold bacteria did not develop any music themselves, They react to music. Whether it's J-Pop (Walkure) or classical-style vocalization (Heinz) does not seem to matter.

It would be nice to see an exploration of other music styles in the Macross universe, but I suspect M+ was as far as things would ever go, if we don't count one-off appearances like Heinz' song.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Saruta

[Tochiro]

Our thoughts on Ep.20 are up - spoiler warnings, as usual.
http://www.macrossworld.com/speakerpodcast-ep-63-macrossΔ-ep-20-spoilercast/

[hevangel2]

Is Macross repaired? or is it just a bug?

Edited August 15, 2016 by hevangel2

[This Confuses Gamlin]

I command Thee to create a GIF of this!

Edited August 15, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[eko.prasetiyo]

Is Macross repaired? or is it just a bug?

perhaps that one of the cause of berger coming to elysion, he fix it or bring parts & supply to fix it.

if he did, why didn't they fix the island ship reactor as well, so elysion could release from that docking position

[RedWolf]

In the previous episodes they seem to not be able to make up their mind if it is fixed or not.

Edited August 15, 2016 by RedWolf

[TehPW]

You sir, are a master of the craft.

In the previous episodes they seem to not be able to make up their mind if it is fixed or not.

in light of a previous speculation of crack consumption and curb stompage, that isn't the only thing MD is waffling on, details & story wise...

[Zinjo]

I too am having trouble believing this can simply be 20-something episodes long.. but I also know it has happened.. which is kinda depressing the way they are pacing it. This pacing would be a lot more excusable for a 3 or 4 cour series.. but as is known right now... I'm left wondering how they decided on this.

The series is suffering from "Second Act Lag (drag)" which happens in some movies. Where the first act is all about setting up the story, the second act is supposed to be about fleshing it out, but often writers bog it down with too much exposition forgetting about the action. Then the third act suddenly sees the story pace ramp up to the climax.

The past two episodes are lagging the series as a whole. They are important to story development, but did not need two episodes dedicated to it. It would have been better to have "clues" and foreshadowing leading up to a few "aha" moments amidst the action. In many ways MF did this better than Delta has so far.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Zinjo