Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 19 - READ 1st POST

[dreamweaver13]

Also loved Mirage and Hayate's interaction, but those shipping those two might be disappointed, since her heartfelt words percolated into his dreaming mind that his mother was yelling at him.

Then again, there's the psychology thing that you end up marrying someone like your mother, so.....

[RedWolf]

Well I Berger and Roid as evil parallels of Dr.Chiba and Mao Nome.

Like Chiba Berger believe songs has power. Both are scientists but one believes in the power os songs and those individuals who sing them the other see it as weaponization.

Mao and Rod are both researchers of the Protoculture. Where Mao is probably looking at humanity's shared heritage and the whereabouts of of her loved ones Rod wants vindication of his species as being short lived is such a bad joke.

[Beltane70]

Wait, Stone and Sterne are both ストーン, aren't they? Coincidence or does Berger have anything to do with Brera and Macross Galaxy?

No, they're not. Sterne is written as スターン in Japanese.

[RedWolf]

Berger has missed an incident where song played a part in making contact. If anything it invalidates his theory. Galactic Whales, space borne energy plant lifeforms that resemble Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class ships that has a couple die off at their graveyard at Zola, which resembles a spiral hole, every 7,000 years the resulting lifeforce energy revitalizing the planet and triggering a mass spawning of Galactic Whales. Galactic Whales are hunted illegally by poachers as they can be made into into better than normal spaceship engines in the black market. Galactic Whales like the Vajra are intelligent lifeforms that can Fold. The largest one the White Whale according to ancient writing is millions of years old and revered as a god. If the Vajra Queen the Bird Human then perhaps the White Whale is the Fish Human in Mayan tribe folklore. The White Whale can tell between friend from foe. Basara singing to it and its pod proved they are intelligent beings as they also sang to him.

[Nazareno2012]

Well I Berger and Roid as evil parallels of Dr.Chiba and Mao Nome.

Like Chiba Berger believe songs has power. Both are scientists but one believes in the power os songs and those individuals who sing them the other see it as weaponization.

Mao and Rod are both researchers of the Protoculture. Where Mao is probably looking at humanity's shared heritage and the whereabouts of of her loved ones Rod wants vindication of his species as being short lived is such a bad joke.

In fairness in the Macross universe music is already long established to be a weapon of mass DIstraction and DEestruction. Though your analogy does make sense though.

[Ghostbear0]

The bio fold resonance stuff is magic and Dr Chibas and the first Anima spirit is guys atempts to use it as a force of love and good to banish evil spirits are the only attempts to scientificly weaponize it that didn't end in utter disaster.

The galaxy was saved because Basara is to stupid to live and wouldn't give up on the emotional conection being the only important part in the face of all evidence. And that's why we need the wind singer interupted by the Archmage of Rock and Roll.

[squaresphere]

And that's why we need the wind singer interupted by the Archmage of Rock and Roll.

haha I just had a thought. Maybe Basara could actually reverse the short lives of the Windereme through his singing. I mean he brought dead flowers back to life

[kalvasflam]

If Berger truly believed this stuff about weaponization of song, he could've just found a way to marry a Sharon Apple AI with Ghosts on a permanent basis. Then flood the airwaves with song while fighting...

One thing that I thought was a little disturbing about Berger's fold microbe folding into people's gut theory... sounds like miracle space germs that enables a certain connection between people. Sound familiar????

Looking at you... midichlorain. a magical organism that connects us all.

Just waiting for beam saber wielding Valks now.... please let it not happen.

[azrael]

One thing that I thought was a little disturbing about Berger's fold microbe folding into people's gut theory... sounds like miracle space germs that enables a certain connection between people. Sound familiar????

That existed in Frontier. Except they had the habit of appearing in the brain, not the gut, which caused a slow death.

[Zinjo]

Not necessarily. You're forgetting the basic fact that, while Big West and Kawamori have mixed visual aesthetics from the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Macross: Do You Remember Love? more or less freely, they favor the TV series continuity for the events of the First Space War on the timeline. There are also several versions of the First Space War narrative (like Macross the First) that follow the whole TV series narrative with the DYRL? Macross design and Daedalus and Prometheus instead of ARMDs. It's pretty clear this is an aesthetic substitution, given that Berger Stone's little presentation shows the initial appearance of the ASS-1 as the Supervision Army design from the original series.

Kawamori's view that there is no one "true" version of the First Space War would kind of mean you're overthinking it.

OK, forget DYRL? in terms of its plot. As far as the ongoing Macross timeline is concerned it's an in-universe work of fiction.

DYRL?'s design aesthetics get substituted into Macross works from time to time because the creators like them better... it makes the Zentradi look more alien, the designs are more polished, etc. Even Berger's presentation affirms, for the most part, that the First Space War happened along TV series lines (with DYRL? aesthetics). The Macross was a Supervision Army gunship (TV ver.), and we see her launch without arms.

I can see where you can make a plausible argument regarding the aesthetics and there are precedents in MF where the Zentradi Naval uniforms were patterned after SDFM and the Marines were patterned after DYRL. Delta also showed an Altiria Island type colony ship as the method by which the PC would colonize worlds so that is no smoking gun either.

However my focus (which apparently I muddled by the aesthetics argument) is really in regard to the DYRL song. This story point was exclusive to DYRL not SDFM and since Berger was recounting history and not pop culture, this is where the weight of the events of DYRL come into frame.

Yes SK has stated that each production is an interpretation of actual historical events in universe, however there needs to be some hard coded anchors to the history to avoid a muddled mess with the very same spine of history that the media is supposed to rest upon.

haha I just had a thought. Maybe Basara could actually reverse the short lives of the Windereme through his singing. I mean he brought dead flowers back to life

Sara did the same...

The bio fold resonance stuff is magic and Dr Chibas and the first Anima spirit is guys atempts to use it as a force of love and good to banish evil spirits are the only attempts to scientificly weaponize it that didn't end in utter disaster.

The galaxy was saved because Basara is to stupid to live and wouldn't give up on the emotional conection being the only important part in the face of all evidence. And that's why we need the wind singer interupted by the Archmage of Rock and Roll.

You sound ambivalent on Basara....

Edited August 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[Ghostbear0]

I want to strangle Basara. That I find him so very infuriating means he's a good character if that makes any sence.

[kalvasflam]

That existed in Frontier. Except they had the habit of appearing in the brain, not the gut, which caused a slow death.

True enough, but transmission in Frontier was very mundane, through birth, blood transfusions, etc, the bacteria did not fold by themselves. Berger managed to take fold bacteria into a whole other level. This also makes me wonder why more people aren't dying now, because what makes the bacteria favor the gut instead of the brain?

[Ghostbear0]

I think it mutated(?) into a nonlethal strain. Its possible they have some level of collective conscience since they where how the vajra maintained theirs. A galaxy spanning magic bacteria God as it were. Evolution through shared learning. Its important to remember no-one really truly gets this bio fold stuff though count setting probably knows more than the protoculture did as they've come a bit farther without summoning Chthulu.

[Raptor One]

Wait, Stone and Sterne are both ストーン, aren't they? Coincidence or does Berger have anything to do with Brera and Macross Galaxy?

No, they're not. Sterne is written as スターン in Japanese.

Damn, beat me to it

[Product9]

Haven't really checked back in the last few days. A lot to get to.

I am still not sure how M7 managed to solve the PD problem. Perhaps it is because i haven 't seen the show in so long, but teaching the PD to sing for themselves seems rather simplistic considering the PC had an Anima Spiritia army of sorts doing the same thing as Fire Bomber did.

The love affair between Basara and Sivil probably helped, since it was their team up at the end of the series which turned the tide.

What this leads me to believe is Mikumo might be an actual EVIL series model but possibly with a blocked link to super dimensional power which kept her from being possessed by the Protodevilin.

That would certainly explain her airplane hair.

Yeah, the only way he could make himself more doomed would be to be two days from retirement and partner up with a devil-may-care wingman who breaks all the rules.

The man's sent up so many death flags you could mistake him for a ship under sail.

Keep in mind the Ozma fake-out in Frontier. Mr. Kawamori knows how to troll an audience.

Curious what the "cargo" that berger brought on board was

Any chance it was Hayate's new VF-31? I don't know where they get their fighters from, but if Epsilon is supplying both sides, then maybe?

It would be pretty funny if there was some misunderstanding somewhere in the supply line they got an Sv-262 delivered instead.

If Isamu and Myung stayed together you would think they would want to stay near each other so it doesn't make sense for them to be half a galaxy away on different assignments for potentially rival companies

Do we know where Lady M is based? Is there any reason she couldn't be in another part of the galaxy?

True enough, but transmission in Frontier was very mundane, through birth, blood transfusions, etc, the bacteria did not fold by themselves. Berger managed to take fold bacteria into a whole other level. This also makes me wonder why more people aren't dying now, because what makes the bacteria favor the gut instead of the brain?

I guess the Vajra instructed the bacteria to be less harmful to humans once they got that mess sorted out. Ranka fixed Sheryl by moving the bacteria, and I'm sure the Vajra hive-mind had a major part in the translation of those instructions. Or at least they must have been aware of it.

Also, is Mirage surprised at the Mylene reveal or am I misreading that scene?

Quoting myself here. After watching the scene with subs it dawned on me that Mirage was just surprised that Berger knew so much about her. I guess it would be surprising if some random guy started telling me all about my family history.

---

I can't find it, but someone mentioned the possibility that the Sv-262 might be a reference to the Me-262. Good observation, if it turns out to be accurate. Though I'm not sure how it would be relevant given it seems to be about on par with the VF-31.

Also,

If Windermere is Delta's equivalent to WWII Germany (with some ideas from WWII Japan thrown in), I bet Epsilon would be in a similar role to Sweden, which supplied equipment to both sides. Another thing is that the SV-262 is inspired by the Saab J-35, a Swedish fighter, and the rifles used by NUNS and Windermere resemble the Bofors Ak 5 rifle with a HK G36 carrying handle.

Interesting observation.

Everyone has pretty interesting theories about the identity of Lady M as well. I wonder if Mr. Kawamori will blow us all away and have her be Lynn Minmay. I know how unlikely that is, which is all the more reason it would be a very powerful choice, at least in terms of surprise.

Though, what about Grace O'Connor? I know her name doesn't start with an M, but she's the kind of character that would be be pulling strings from behind the scenes. Also, isn't she older than she looks or am I remembering that wrong? Depending on what continuity they go with she is either a villain or a heroine, and either turbodead or possibly not dead? Though I guess she could possibly be not dead in either continuity, what with all the body swapping and all.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Product9

[Zinjo]

I want to strangle Basara. That I find him so very infuriating means he's a good character if that makes any sence.

Not really, but if it works for you, I'm cool with it...

I can't find it, but someone mentioned the possibility that the Sv-262 might be a reference to the Me-262. Good observation, if it turns out to be accurate. Though I'm not sure how it would be relevant given it seems to be about on par with the VF-31.

That would be me. I was making the comment that SK and company were referencing the famous German jet with their numeric designation of the SV-262.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[Mazinger]

I'd really love it if Lady M was Misa or Minmei. That would continue a trend I think I'm sensing in SK and BW slowly trying to reappropriate SDF and reestablish Macross outside of Japan. Could be all wishful thinking in my head, but I'm keeping hope alive.

[Zinjo]

I'd really love it if Lady M was Misa or Minmei. That would continue a trend I think I'm sensing in SK and BW slowly trying to reappropriate SDF and reestablish Macross outside of Japan. Could be all wishful thinking in my head, but I'm keeping hope alive.

I would be shocked if it were either. SK has stated repeatedly he feels that the Megaroad 01 sailed off into the sunset and he didn't want to revisit that story.

[NightmarePlus]

Any chance it was Hayate's new VF-31? I don't know where they get their fighters from, but if Epsilon is supplying both sides, then maybe?

Nah. Kaos gets their VF-31s from Surya Aerospace.

[ManhattanProject972]

True enough, but transmission in Frontier was very mundane, through birth, blood transfusions, etc, the bacteria did not fold by themselves. Berger managed to take fold bacteria into a whole other level. This also makes me wonder why more people aren't dying now, because what makes the bacteria favor the gut instead of the brain?

You can thank Ranka for this one.

When she saved Sheryl from her Fold Microbe infection by somehow guiding the little buggers to her gut, Ranka basically taught the microbes to live inside of a humanoid's gut instead of their brain.

Now fast forward to the Vajra leaving the galaxy, the Microbes once living inside their Vajra hosts now folded their way into not only the gut of humanoids but apparently inside our cells as well.

Nah. Kaos gets their VF-31s from Surya Aerospace.

Well Berger did say he dealt in arms, so maybe a fresh supply of replacement arms for Hayate's Valk?

Y'know cause he keeps loosing his...

okay I'll let myself out now.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ManhattanProject972

[Heatwave]

You can thank Ranka for this one.

When she saved Sheryl from her Fold Microbe infection by somehow guiding the little buggers to her gut, Ranka basically taught the microbes to live inside of a humanoid's gut instead of their brain.

Now fast forward to the Vajra leaving the galaxy, the Microbes once living inside their Vajra hosts now folded their way into not only the gut of humanoids but apparently inside our cells as well.

Well Berger did say he dealt in arms, so maybe a fresh supply of replacement arms for Hayate's Valk?

Y'know cause he keeps loosing his...

okay I'll let myself out now.

Well to be fair. Hayate can be an armful

. . . I'll see myself out

[Einherjar]

In Berger's defense.

'Murica's Tactical Music Unit; just guns that fire CDs.

[Crossboy]

Lynn Minmay Monogatari (in gg fansubs translates as Lynn Minmay Files) = Lynn Minmay Story (Macross 7)?

[grigolosi]

Not really, but if it works for you, I'm cool with it...

That would be me. I was making the comment that SK and company were referencing the famous German jet with their numeric designation of the SV-262.

Plus 2 of the of the members of Delta are named after famous German aces and other members of Chaos are named after famous aircraft.......so the 262 reference is pretty much spot on in my book also Zinjo.

[RedWolf]

Welp! Sorry Roid but the Windermere royalty and Mayan priestess line seems to have both been engineered to make contact with the Vajra.

Terrans did it first. Why? Cause your people hardly leaves your planet and worry too much about your short lives.

[Seto Kaiba]

1471059526140.jpg

Welp! Sorry Roid but the Windermere royalty and Mayan priestess line seems to have both been engineered to make contact with the Vajra.

Terrans did it first. Why? Cause your people hardly leaves your planet and worry too much about your short lives.

The Mayan priestesses were for the purpose of maintaining (and, if necessary, activating) the Birdman, as stated in Macross Chronicle.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

M is obviously Dame Judy Dench.

Just hooking onto your post to marvel at how quickly everyone speculated on Lady M's identity when even the "M" is not a confirmation of anything.

The M could be flipped over to make a W, therefore Warera Nantes is Lady M, Half-Life 3 is confirmed, etc.

[RedWolf]

The Mayan priestesses were for the purpose of maintaining (and, if necessary, activating) the Birdman, as stated in Macross Chronicle.

Yes it seems more that just that if we go by Mao's theory. She's the one that made a connection between the Protoculture and the Vajra.

The Bird Human was made in the image of the Vajra Queen. Whose purpose was to watch over the Terran species. Why Earth so far got one not the other races there may be a purpose to it.

[Sartika3091]

Protocultere idols look like Mikumo, especially their hair also Their physical appearance like humans

[RedWolf]

Protocultere idols look like Mikumo, especially their hair also Their physical appearance like humans

I guess Protoculture had decency laws. Sara and Mikumo sings in the nude.

[Mazinger]

The M could be flipped over to make a W, therefore Warera Nantes is Lady M, Half-Life 3 is confirmed, etc.

Misa, Hikara, and the Megaroad will be back from the Black Hole before we get Half-Life 3. Sadly.

[Saruta]

I've been thinking about Mirage and Mikumo lately, and how Mirage doesn't really know her famous family and Mikumo doesn't have any close relations with anyone. What it Mirage is like a physical avatar for Mikumo for her to try to interact with society normally?

No, because Mikumo ships Freyja/Hayate (pretty much in that order), while Mirage is anxious about the ship.

Note that other Walkure members ship Hayate/Mirage. Kawamori, ever the troll, preempted the shipping wars by showing them on screen.

[Saruta]

One thing that I thought was a little disturbing about Berger's fold microbe folding into people's gut theory... sounds like miracle space germs that enables a certain connection between people. Sound familiar????

Looking at you... midichlorain. a magical organism that connects us all.

So what's new? Macross is chock full of Western popular sci fi references ever since SDFM, where Star Trek quotes abound. Now they quoted Star Wars too.

[Saruta]

In general: I had a few very busy weeks and then marathoned the few episodes I missed, ending with this one. They are doing a few things very right:

- Introducing a huge number of Walkure songs in the anime. Not in supplementary material as happened with Fire Bomber. Most episodes now seem to have a unique ending song, or something?

- Showing the singing of Walkure improve gradually. Especially Freyja (which is an outright plot point) but also they seem to become more "in sync" with each other?

The triangle/ship war thing seems a bit forced. It's like they are only doing it because it's Macross and they have to. But at least they are self-conscious about it and play it as a joke too, at least by other characters watching the interaction and supporting one ship or the other.

I think there are still death flags over Mikumo but we need to find out who she is, nah - SHE needs to find out who she is. I have a feeling that after she finds out who she is, she might prefer to "go out with a bang" and win the war by sacrificing herself.

Also, IO do wonder what the exclamation about something horrible and Gramia close to the end is. Did Gramia arise as a zombie?

[JB0]

So... I've been introducing someone to Macross, and we went from SDF(which he loved) to Delta(because it was current).

I sorta figured Delta would be mostly standalone like the past shows, so no real harm.

I was most definitely NOT expecting it to go ahead and explicitly spoil Plus, Seven, and Frontier all in the space of two minutes.

Fortunately, we get together on mondays and the delay on the subs means I screened this before they did.

Now I just have to figure out damage control.

Lady M is Dr. Chiba confirmed!