Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 17 - READ 1st POST

[505thAirborne]

sub ver is out! Yes!!! now I got something to watch whilst bored at work!

I'm telling your boss what you're doing instead of working!

[USCOLMRNE]

Here are some wallpapers for you guys.

Sorry for constant editing. Didn't want to give out spoilers

Edited July 26, 2016 by USCOLMRNE

[azrael]

Again with the speculation.

I'm strongly leaning toward Wright being coerced to steal the MDE. He played with Windermere children, but Windermere "children" are likely more psychologically mature (except for Bogue) than Human children of the same age. I'm guessing that was his "pressure point" and the rebels damn well exploited it. Arad keeps saying he was too kind for his own good.

[spanner]

I'm telling your boss what you're doing instead of working!

hehe! go for it! he's more of a bludger than I am!

Now time to watch Delta-17!

[Einherjar]

Someone graduated from the Sheryl Nome School of Idol-ing.

But seriously, I'm with Robert and Mirage worried how things will end for Hayate. His synchronization with Freyja may gravely injure or outright kill him one day and he may not be able to clear his father's reputation if he was manipulated into dropping the bomb. Pretty high stakes compared to just surviving and picking a love interest (or not) like other protagonists in the franchise.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Einherjar

[ManhattanProject972]

Y'know I feel really sorry for the dude who has to shovel the base every 3 minutes because does it ever stop snowing on Windermere?!

[Graham]

Neutral vote, no mecha action again. At least we got to see a whole bunch of SV-262s parked.

[grigolosi]

What Roid is missing is the fact that human life spans were directly influenced by both our environment and evolution on Earth. The Protoculture basically just gave our remote ancestors the genetic push in the direction they wanted us to go in and let nature take its course. Paleolithic Earth was not a friendly place for a species to evolve that didn't have any form of claws, teeth, size or speed. It bred both aggressiveness and intelligence into us as a species for survival purposes Our lifespans at that time are estimated to be around 45-50 yrs on average. The only reason our life span was increased is due to our advances in medicine and the lack of natural predators that once roamed the landscape. It had nothing to due with Protoculture "engineering". Our environment was hostile enough at the time to give the PC pause to leave an AI to keep tabs on us and if necessary wipe the planet to keep us from venturing out into the galaxy if we continued aggression towards our own kind or any other species. I believe these AI's were only left on planets where the PC saw a foreseeable problem in the future with the aggressive nature of a species as it evolved. What we don't know is what type of environment the Windermerans evolved in and what would cause the PC to grant them such short life spans besides the over the top abilities they were given. Most of Roids issues humans besides the deliberate drop of an MDE on his planet is as stated earlier jealousy.

As for Mikumo, I believe she is either a PC that was found in stasis or is a clone created from the tissue of a discovered PC body that was in stasis. What she is seeing and feeling are almost like genetic memories forcing their way to the surface. Her urge to sing seems to be one of them. I think when she reaches the point in the series when she recovers enough of her memories Roid is going to be very unpleasantly informed of how wrong he is in his elitist views of his race.

Y'know I feel really sorry for the dude who has to shovel the base every 3 minutes because does it ever stop snowing on Windermere?!

LOL that is not fun at all. We had to shovel the ramp areas around the jets at Hill AFB when it snowed and then move the jets forward from their spots so the plows could pick up the rest. It really really sucked when it just dumped snow all day like it seems to on Windermere.

[Tochiro]

Our thoughts are up on episode Makina..err..I mean 17.

http://www.macrossworld.com/speakerpodcast-ep-59-macrossΔ-ep-17-spoilercast/

[Ghostbear0]

So am I just crazy orvaew the knights launching a strike on Earth? The twins and Bouge were talking about a strike at the heart of the NUG and then told the red shirts to hold the fort while they were gone. Then the Khights were seen in a non SS Mindcontroll ship for the first time.

[Product9]

Depending on how this thing with Hayate's father goes, we might have a theme here of being separate people from one's family or parents. Mirage has her struggles with expectations of her as a pilot, and Hayate might have to deal with his father being a mass murderer. Mirage even told Hayate that it doesn't matter if he's following in his father's footsteps or not, because he did so independently and is thus following his own reasons.

This is also kind of similar to one of the themes in Frontier of doing what comes naturally to you. Doing things because you couldn't stand not doing them, or something to that effect. In both cases it's an exploration of why people do the things they do, while advocating for following one's own reasons versus expectations.

[cwmodels]

For me it's been somewhat of a weird experience watching Macross Delta. The show constantly throws in elements that are jarring contrast to the serious underlying plot of war and death. Several episodes ago there was an eventful death of a major character and now the latest one is wacky fun happy concert stuff with slapstick comedy peppered in.

I find myself enjoying this series scene by scene in pieces. But as an overall cohesive show when I have to stop and think about it... tone, pacing and character development issues become more and more apparent, and it doesn't feel like the story is unfolding organically at all. Information and revelation are tossed-in in a very clunky manner sometimes. Almost all the characters are likable, but it feel like the show needs another 26 episodes just to so it can to do them all justice.

Now, on the other hand, I've been running episodes of Macross Delta in the summer camp art class I've been teaching and all the girls ranging from 13 to 16 are going nuts over it. They respond to the magical girl stuff, singing, budding romance scenes, and all the good looking bishonans like rabid dogs. They even eat up all the giant robots and aerial dog fights too calling it epic. So my conclusion is that the show is not really geared toward us old Macross folkies anymore, Shoji's main target audience is the new generation of female otaku and fujoshi and it's hitting them dead center!

Edited July 26, 2016 by cwmodels

[azrael]

So my conclusion is that the show is not really geared toward us old Macross folkies anymore, Shoji's main target audience is the new generation of female otaku and fujoshi and it's hitting them dead center!

No kidding. At least Macross is continuing to draw in new fans, unlike a similar "franchise" which I will not get into here which has been pushing nostalgia hard for 20-some years. I long ago gave up the idea that shows like Frontier or Delta were for people at my age so I said, to hell with it and am just enjoying the ride for what it's worth.

[Product9]

I wonder what it would take to get another Macross Plus in today's climate.

I try really hard to enjoy stuff that is in my area of interest, and will put up with a lot if there is something in a show that I like. I knew from the preview episode that Delta was going to be wacky, but the Valkyrie action was still cool, and I'll deal with everything else to get to that.

But, thankfully, a lot of the other elements have also grown on me (and I let them), so I'm really enjoying Delta now. Though, that said, I would really, really love another show in the vein of Plus.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Product9

[tout-puissant]

Wow, now you can crowdfund freedom. Lotsa politicians should take a hint.

This mid-series lull *feels* like it should be told in fewer episodes, but IMO it's a case of the heroes sitting out traditional Macross action while other parties are seen fighting (and losing). However, this episode features a galactic-scale attack (and fundraiser!) that probably SHOULD have had more time, or at least been given more setup besides an offhand remark by Mikumo last week and then suddenly jumping into a concert featuring all manner of stock footage besides a couple new songs (not complaining about that, BTW). Methinks marathoning Delta would give a more positive takeaway, but we shouldn't HAVE to do that. At least we can conclude that while we aren't looking, it's the past couple episodes that Walkure has been madly writing all the songs we'll here from here through the remaining episodes.

And the beautiful cameo VF-22 shows up again, in full NUNS livery. Anyone catch the flight suit that Immelman Sr. was using? It wasn't what a typical NUNS CF pilot wears, and sure didn't look like 2046-era fashion:

http://www.oocities.org/drakkenwulf_2000/Images/maximilian.gif

Mark

[squaresphere]

My thoughts

You know... I wonder what Roid thinks about the Zentradi? They have MUCH longer life spans than humans (Max aside ) and those not from Lost Fleets have the same potential for creativity as humans. Hell if you think about it Humanity and Zentradi are basically the same culture now with the exception of some keeping their strong ties to the military/authority services like Klan Klang (though it's really just like humans having "military" families where all members have served)

What's more odd to me is if Roid's true aim is to "fix" Windemere's genetic limitation then that might mean he's been experimenting... which is way more mad scientist than what we have been shown. So, this rhetoric doesn't stand up.

So Epsilon finally delivers more SVs... yeah I'm sure they're piloted by jobbers.

As far as Arad's distraction goes I'm very MEH about it. What's more far fetched to me is the fact they have a virus that can infect the whole stellar network. That seems INCREDIBLY dangerous (infections can go both ways) especially when we think about how people can exist in a fully virtual state (Grace from MF).

I do find it silly that people are attributing the coin donation thing to pokemon go. This is clearly a nod to how adult webcam girls ask for tips to show more or give people access to special videos and pictures.

My only thoughts on the triangle is that Mirage experience in romance can be directly related to the fact she probably skipped school and when directly into the service. THAT is weird. I mean what the hell is the minimum age for someone to join NUNs? I mean we know she fought in at least some conflicts where she had to kill. At a stretch, she joins when she's 13, fights for one year, and then leaves to go to Chaos around the time she's about to turn 15?

On Wright... well we're just missing a lot of information here. Was he VARS, really a traitor or some shade of grey? Too many holes to really get a read on this plot point.

On a complete side note, Capt Cat Dad became immune to the VARS? That mean it was directly tied to Freya's singing in her most emotional state. Hell, even Messer wasn't completely immune and he's had WAY more exposure to all of Walkure's singing. Not sure if this is a red hearing or just a plot gap.

[RedWolf]

My only thoughts on the triangle is that Mirage experience in romance can be directly related to the fact she probably skipped school and when directly into the service. THAT is weird. I mean what the hell is the minimum age for someone to join NUNs? I mean we know she fought in at least some conflicts where she had to kill. At a stretch, she joins when she's 13, fights for one year, and then leaves to go to Chaos around the time she's about to turn 15?

Gamlin got special permission to join UN Spacy at 15. Tohma Syun of the VF-X Ravens was a year old 15 ace that joined that unit.

You have to remember other than clones there wasn't much of adults around. Mylene was 10 when she got her driver's license. Milia was setting her up for marriage at 14.

Marrying at that age is probably thought to be old fashioned nowadays in Macross Delta but such was the necessity during the early decades as humans really need to make babies to increase the population.

Meltrandi aging though means they can take their time before choosing a partner. Some of them are picky like Veffidas and Emilia. You'll have to beat them first at what they are good at. Yeah pretty much the Max-Milia courtship. Veffidas did not accept her suitor as he can't defeat her in martial arts. Emilia fell for Basara when he won their Rock off.

[zaino]

Y'know I feel really sorry for the dude who has to shovel the base every 3 minutes because does it ever stop snowing on Windermere?!

heated pavement does exist

[cwmodels]

No kidding. At least Macross is continuing to draw in new fans, unlike a similar "franchise" which I will not get into here which has been pushing nostalgia hard for 20-some years. I long ago gave up the idea that shows like Frontier or Delta were for people at my age so I said, to hell with it and am just enjoying the ride for what it's worth.

Frontier in my opinion was still more consistent in it's pacing and tone. It had a overall seriousness, not to mention almost all the major characters had an arc for character development. It was a much smoother ride in comparison. I thought it was one of the best out of the franchise (even better than Plus in plot and character development).

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Methinks marathoning Delta would give a more positive takeaway, but we shouldn't HAVE to do that.

I think that many series' pacing issues are remedied by viewing in hour-long batches or full marathons. The industry may have reached this state due to some expectation that otaku are going to buy the discs anyway, so if individual episodes are a little sloppy in composition, they just have to hold the viewer's interest for another few minutes and they can run the next one.

[guyxxed]

Delta was on a good course up until episode 13. I felt that in a lot of ways it was improving on the Frontier model with its character work (though Messer's death was rushed). I'm glad that the triangle is finally in motion, but they desperately need to bring more depth to the villains and the Windermereian people in general. I have no idea at the moment how the civilian population is viewing their leaders or what they think of Roid and his war.

Overall, I'm still liking Delta, but they've lost a lot of the rhythm that they had built up in the first half and are falling short in building tension.

[Raptor One]

Here are some wallpapers for you guys.

Sorry for constant editing. Didn't want to give out spoilers

I really love that first image

I wonder what it would take to get another Macross Plus in today's climate.

I try really hard to enjoy stuff that is in my area of interest, and will put up with a lot if there is something in a show that I like. I knew from the preview episode that Delta was going to be wacky, but the Valkyrie action was still cool, and I'll deal with everything else to get to that.

But, thankfully, a lot of the other elements have also grown on me (and I let them), so I'm really enjoying Delta now. Though, that said, I would really, really love another show in the vein of Plus.

I'm thinking Macross would have to reach the success level of something like Gundam, meaning it's able to sustain multiple ongoing series/OVAs at once. I think that's the only way you'd get something as gritty as Plus again. Presumably in that case there would still be a mainstream TV series on the air at the same time. At that level of popularity, the creators would be able to start catering to all different demographics of the fanbase.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Raptor One

[kalvasflam]

I think that many series' pacing issues are remedied by viewing in hour-long batches or full marathons. The industry may have reached this state due to some expectation that otaku are going to buy the discs anyway, so if individual episodes are a little sloppy in composition, they just have to hold the viewer's interest for another few minutes and they can run the next one.

they could always make Macross like House of Cards, do the entire series, and then release it on Netflix. I wouldn't mindd binge watching. I get the feeling that may be this way, parts of it wouldn't be so disappointing, especially with how this series has been paced. I also tend to think that the writers could take a lesson from the original SDF:M since they seem to be able to do a good protrayal of both sides. One could certain not say that they didn't know the Zentradis well at the end of the series. Granted, SDF:M had more time, but by episode 17, we already had a very good background on the Zentradi... Windermeres are still more like Vajra at this point, nothing more than a big boggy man from down the block.

[Solo Wing Pixy]

I've started reading the tie-in manga that focuses on the aerial knights(specifically keith and roid) when they were young, and it really helps to flesh out their motives and characterisation a lot more. Is it possible that the lack of information we have so far due to the presence of the tie-in manga, or should we get more information later on in the anime?

[Ghostbear0]

I've started reading the tie-in manga that focuses on the aerial knights(specifically keith and roid) when they were young, and it really helps to flesh out their motives and characterisation a lot more. Is it possible that the lack of information we have so far due to the presence of the tie-in manga, or should we get more information later on in the anime?

Possible? Certainly yes. Acceptable reason? No.

[kalvasflam]

You know, I have been thinking, there are at least a few good points in this episode. We got the background of Hayate's dad and at least something of the MDE out into the story, that's good, we also got a better look at the Windermere carrier hybrid... The FAT quarter, and best of all, lots of Drakkens.

Do you know what this means.... Lots of nooks and redshirts for Mirage, Hayate and even Chuck to go all ace on in the next few episodes. We can get some good new animation to reuse and may be sees a little less of the reused Bogue animation. If we can only get some decent space ship action, seeing the Aether shooting down some redshirt Drakkens would be nice, give them a chance to put all their AA to good use

[guyxxed]

Every episode of Delta has had good stuff in it, and there's still plenty to like in it. I think the negative feelings (or, at least, my own) are coming from the fact that it could easily be much better than it is, not that it's actually bad or anything.

For the amount of time we've spent with the bad guys, we really still don't have a clear idea of their motives or goals, and have very little details on their background to allow us to sympathize with them. At the same time, we've been given a well balanced group of good guys with interesting backgrounds, but then spent most of the time shoving them to the side and making this the Hayate & Freyja show. Mirage, at the very least, desperately needs more moments to shine. She's a great character, but for an experienced combat pilot, she's somehow become almost a sidekick to amateur Hayate.

I like the fact that there is supplemental material to expand and flesh out the Delta world, but Ghostbear is correct, the existence of that should never take place of development within the show itself.

[cwmodels]

Every episode of Delta has had good stuff in it, and there's still plenty to like in it. I think the negative feelings (or, at least, my own) are coming from the fact that it could easily be much better than it is, not that it's actually bad or anything.

For the amount of time we've spent with the bad guys, we really still don't have a clear idea of their motives or goals, and have very little details on their background to allow us to sympathize with them. At the same time, we've been given a well balanced group of good guys with interesting backgrounds, but then spent most of the time shoving them to the side and making this the Hayate & Freyja show. Mirage, at the very least, desperately needs more moments to shine. She's a great character, but for an experienced combat pilot, she's somehow become almost a sidekick to amateur Hayate.

I like the fact that there is supplemental material to expand and flesh out the Delta world, but Ghostbear is correct, the existence of that should never take place of development within the show itself.

I find the character moments more fun and interesting that the actual war story in Delta. When I watch Delta, were are many moments that makes me think of what Shoji said in one of his interview of how he originally intended to revolve the story and characters around the idea of aerial competitions. Uncertain Cosmic Movement scene from episode 4 and concert sequences from the latest episode really makes think how much more fitting those songs and atmosphere would be if he went in that direction. He's work on cyber formula (a race car show) before and I can easily see how all the Delta characters could've gone in that route without the need to stick them into the backdrop of a war.

[MisaForever]

Deleted.

Edited July 27, 2016 by MisaForever

[guyxxed]

I find the character moments more fun and interesting that the actual war story in Delta. When I watch Delta, were are many moments that makes me think of what Shoji said in one of his interview of how he originally intended to revolve the story and characters around the idea of aerial competitions. Uncertain Cosmic Movement scene from episode 4 and concert sequences from the latest episode really makes think how much more fitting those songs and atmosphere would be if he went in that direction. He's work on cyber formula (a race car show) before and I can easily see how all the Delta characters could've gone in that route without the need to stick them into the backdrop of a war.

Agreed. His statement (in the Forbes interview, I think) that he wanted to do away with the love triangle aspect altogether also helps explain (or, at least give context to) how casually it's been handled up intil this point. Which, actually, I like. The slow pace gave the early character episodes a more natural, comfortable feel that I really enjoyed. I've got nothing against a good romance (I am a Macross fan, afterall), but it was refreshing to have people being friends and comrades first.

I don't know if I would want to do away with war entirely (the military always has the best toys), but would absolutely welcome more variations to the formula.

[Scyla]

It was a cool episode. Really nice comment on the state of Idol groups in Japan.

What I don't like is the missing Battroid combat and the fact that we will be on a stealth mission again on the very same planet it happened before (more cat people). Which means no Battroid action again.

I also was very confused about why..

... Hayates father blew up the bomb. What I understood is that the weapon was illegally transported to Windermere. Then for some reason Wright Immelman contacted a Windermerean resistance group stole the weapon with his VF-22S and blew up the NUNS garrison on Windermere. That makes no sense to me.

It probably ended the war because the Nuns garrison was blown up by an illegal weapon by an NUNS pilot so for each faction to save face a truce was the only solution I guess.

Did I at least understood that correctly or do I have to watch the episode again. Was it translated incorrectly or does it make as much sense to the Japanese viewers as it does to me?

Also man Mirage has to man-up and fight for Hayate. Freyas strange laugh will win him over if Mirage doesn't intervene. I think we need grandpa Max grandma Miria to intervene

[Ghostbear0]

Why is the million dollar question. Mind controll is the most reasonable explanation at this point ( ain't that a hack of a statment) but seems a little easy.

[Solo Wing Pixy]

Perhaps it was part of some false flag operation(Roid did mention having a plan at the time the bomb was dropped, which turned their wings black) to give windemere a precedent for war? I also heard someone mention that wright was too kind for his own good, so there is also the possibility that he defected to windermere.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Solo Wing Pixy

[RedWolf]

Perhaps it was part of some false flag operation(Roid did mention having a plan at the time the bomb was dropped, which turned their wings black) to give windemere a precedent for war? I also heard someone mention that wright was too kind for his own good, so there is also the possibility that he defected to windermere.

Nah Scarfell happen after 8 months of the independence war.

[Einherjar]

And the beautiful cameo VF-22 shows up again, in full NUNS livery. Anyone catch the flight suit that Immelman Sr. was using? It wasn't what a typical NUNS CF pilot wears, and sure didn't look like 2046-era fashion:

For reference:

That's a lot of purple, could be tint from the sunset. Yet no DYRL style shoulder pads. Reminds me a lot of: