Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 17 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Delta Episode 17 Talkback Thread

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New episode threads and polls opens Sundays, 9:00AM EST/6:00AM PST (22:00, i.e. 10:00PM JST), 30 minutes BEFORE the broadcast.

Broadcast schedule:

Sunday: Tokyo MX, 22:30 JST

Monday: TVQ Kyushu, 26:30 (2:30 AM) JST

Tuesday: MBS, 27:00 (3:00 AM) JST / BS11, 24:00 (midnight) JST

Wednesday: d anime store, 12:00 JST / TV Aichi & Television Hokkaido, 26:05 (2:05 AM) JST

(Broadcast times subject to change, Check listings.)

[CRYO]

no valk action again, still slow tempo...

Walkure special live... to spread their virus to the Windermere network, and why suddenly the windermere soldiers changed their minds to love the idols?

Hayate did feel himself in love with Freyja..

But his father is the one who dimension bombed Windermere, Freyja's shinning loving heart quickly turns into dull shade of saddness...

Next ep should have dogfight again.

[RedWolf]

At the beginning we get a monologue of Roid having a existential crisis why Terrans are more blessed than Windermereans. Having a longer lifespan despite being physically weaker and no runes while their own lives are so short. So he aims to make the Wind Singer king of the galaxy to prove a point.

Walkure formulate a plan in countering Windermere's plan by getting the ruins under their influence. To do that they do a galaxy wide vaccine concert. As people download it they can infiltrate computer networks particularly Windermere's. Bogue catches a bunch watchng the concert but can't control his rune listening to Freyja. A hologram message of Reina shows up making Bogue scared like the last time. Reina trolling him. With that they can infiltrate Voldor with NUNS resistance assistance, who were freed the last time they were there.

On Windermere Roid is studying Freyja. Berger shows up seeing watching the event of Randal. Prime 4-koma material if you ask me. Berger a Roid talk about Freyja.

Bogue and the twins inspect the new grunts plots of the Drakens. Quasim has his qualms of this whole affair that Helmann acknowledges.

The connection and romance between Hayate and Freyja go deeper that it affects Hayate's senses. Must be how the Sivil feel around Basara. Mikumo, Makina and Reina take notice of Freyja's change around Hayate. Meanwhile Mirage is hurt that she don't seem to have a chance.

On Mikumo just as she comments Freyja's songs has changed Freyja takes note the Mikumo just did too. Kaname gives us a flashback of her and Mikumo talking about that Mikumo doesn't know her own history. When is her birthday and who she is.

Robert Kino can't keep his mouth shut. Tells Hayate that his father was on Windermere and runs off. Arad has to deal with the repercussions. Arad tells why he kept it secret and why Kino was angry at Wright Immelman. It was Wright Immelman that dropped the MDE. NUNS kept that classified.

Hayate will find out the truth later. First he has a mission to fulfill. As the Aethermeets up with Larzabal's resistance group.

[l3fty84]

I was pretty much expecting the bombing to be a small emotional wrench for Hayate and Freyja, it also gave Hayate a new immediate goal, to find out what exactly happened with his dad.

The music player link should be unveiled soon, seriously wondering if it has any kind of message encripted on it by Wright, not to mention that fire, This will probably be unveiled through Hayate investigating the whole thing around his dad.

The resonating factor between Freyja and Hayate is getting stronger, in before he ends as her break dancing galactic peacemaker that wrecks weaponry across the galaxy while purging mind control and Var all over the place just with his dancing.

Bogue finds a few youngling pilots watching the Walkure concert, gets pissed until Reinas holo ends up in his face and he starts freaking out in panic, accidentally donating lots of coins, only for Reina holo to flip him off for trying to buy her out, including episode 8, this is 2 times he was frozen up over Reina, interesting. How would he react to Meltran Reina I wonder.

Should be mentioned Epsilon dude mentioned some newly modified Draken III units being brought to them, really wondering if this means Hayate will get a new Valk of his own soon, or if he will keep borrowing Messer's unit until the end.

[Marzan]

Pretty much a transitional episode. Other than the big 'reveal' which we all saw coming anyway there was little new. Hayate is either head over heels with Freyja, or the jewel around his neck amplifying her song is having a big impact on him.

Is Nekopilot-kun going to join Delta?

That Makina end card.

[eko.prasetiyo]

so the father "start" the war and the son will end it as the boy said to messer before. now what is the real reason hayate father drop the MDE? was he got var / mindcontrolled?

[mzhao3]

So it's pretty much confirmed Hayate takes over Delta02/31F? I'm not sure how I feel about that. It takes away from the melodramatic impact from episode 13 in my opinion - "Oh hey Messer, I'm just borrowing her for this epic fight.. JK. It's an upgrade!

Edited July 24, 2016 by mzhao3

[ManhattanProject972]

So it's pretty much confirmed Hayate takes over Delta02/31F? I'm not sure how I feel about that. It takes away from the melodramatic impact from episode 13 in my opinion - "Oh hey Messer, I'm just borrowing her for this epic fight.. JK. It's an upgrade!

Well Hayate's 31J like the other 31's of Delta Squad are equipped with a pretty rare and expensive fold quartz system so it makes sense that they don't have a spare around after the 31J was lost on Ragna. And even if they wanted to replace the 31J they dont have the resources to make another one in the state that they are in, barely able to afford ammo and supplies. So a replacement 31 is probably the least of their worries when they have Messer's plane. For all we know Hayate's 31J was probably Delta's spare backup VF until he joined then they painted it his unique color and gave it the Delta 05 designation.

Anyway the new songs this episode were pretty nice and two at that!

And I wonder what Kassim was doing infront of Freyja in the preview?

[This Confuses Gamlin]

why suddenly the windermere soldiers changed their minds to love the idols?

If outside culture has been suppressed since the revolution, these guys would have had very little exposure to it in the past. So they're reacting like the original Zentradi did, except that Minmay had more clothes on.

[Product9]

Well Hayate's 31J like the other 31's of Delta Squad are equipped with a pretty rare and expensive fold quartz system so it makes sense that they don't have a spare around after the 31J was lost on Ragna. And even if they wanted to replace the 31J they dont have the resources to make another one in the state that they are in, barely able to afford ammo and supplies. So a replacement 31 is probably the least of their worries when they have Messer's plane. For all we know Hayate's 31J was probably Delta's spare backup VF until he joined then they painted it his unique color and gave it the Delta 05 designation.

They could have given him a -31A, but there's no guarantee there are any extras of those around. Too bad, it would have been nice to see one in a skilled (read important) pilot

Although, then Messer's plane would just be sitting around not doing anything, so I guess what happened actually makes more sense

Also, the intro is actually growing on me.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Product9

[kalvasflam]

Talk about blatant fan service with Walkure. Well, if Windermere can trot out Var virus, then Walkure can sell sex. Let's see if the Windermere can compete with Heinz in the same way. Asymmetric warfare at its best.

What's this thing with Hayate being so affected by Freyja.

Honestly though, I wasn't sure if I was watching an episode of Macross here. Between all the bouncing boobs and green pacman, the only thing that tweaked me off this is a Macross series was the shot of the Island.

As for the Triangle... can't we all just get along? Remember Haya Haya, in 15 years, you can have Jenius obasan... ha ha.

Oh, finally a look at the Windermere version of the Dulfim. Looks like a carrier deck on the port side, and macross cannon on the starboard. Then of course, Winderemere wings. This thing actually looks a little more like a fat quarter style warship.

Bogue was lucky it was only Reina and not Mikumo.

And what was this on the next ep, where it looks like Cassim is talking to Haya Haya and Fre Fre? The damned traitor. Unforgivable... Keith must kill Cassim ASAP.

[kajnrig]

Didn't get a chance to watch/respond to the last episode, but both of these have been overall good rides. The rampant fan service in this episode is another example of Kawamori simultaneously exploiting and critiquing an industry - in this case, sexualization of sometimes junior idols - and getting away with it.

I still found it a bit tasteless and problematic; at the same time, I didn't get the sense that it was presented as any sort of statement about the Walkure themselves so much as the people who consumed it. It's the girls sexualizing themselves for their own benefit, not other people sexualizing the Walkure for their benefits.

...then again one could argue that it's illegitimate coming from a studio headed by and staffed largely by men, but blkajsdf;lkajsdfljasfdlkj anyway moving on.

Kaname and Arad's relationship inching forward, loved every moment of that. Not necessarily toward a romance, but rather things are just no longer stuck in neutral with them. Freyja and Hayate head over heels with each other, which is great, and Mirage only slowly coming to realize she's super jelly, which is also nice. The entire cast of protagonists are getting some much-needed characterization, and it only took a permanent vacation to space to do it. Seems Kawamori and Macross are in their comfort zones again finally.

The bads were also slowly growing in character as the series went on, but this episode's the first one where I can honestly say I enjoyed/remember my time with them. Bogue has always been played for laughs, but I got and continue to get the sense his hostility for Walkure comes more from an unacknowledged attraction to them (and particularly Reina?) than from any hatred.

Revelation about Hayate's dad is an interesting turn of events, very in line with the soap opera spirit of the franchise.

...still I want more kaname and arad tho theyre super cute

[zaino]

hmm, cassim deserter maybe?

next week should be exciting

[Product9]

The rampant fan service in this episode is another example of Kawamori simultaneously exploiting and critiquing an industry - in this case, sexualization of sometimes junior idols - and getting away with it.

I still found it a bit tasteless and problematic; at the same time, I didn't get the sense that it was presented as any sort of statement about the Walkure themselves so much as the people who consumed it. It's the girls sexualizing themselves for their own benefit, not other people sexualizing the Walkure for their benefits.

I wonder how many of the people watching in the show got really close to their screens with the chest closeup, only to be scared half to death when a gigantic freaking sword popped out

Edited July 24, 2016 by Product9

[This Confuses Gamlin]

The rampant fan service in this episode is another example of Kawamori simultaneously exploiting and critiquing an industry - in this case, sexualization of sometimes junior idols - and getting away with it.

I'll admit that I felt a little conflicted about this. Even as I spent time doing numerous screencaps.

Arad and Hayate, giving the meta reaction.

[Gerli]

Someone needs to make a shacking GIF from this image and add the "DECULTURE INTENSIFIES" title

[MisaForever]

Boobs, boobs, and more boobs! Gimme Gimme Gimme. In all seriousness it was an interesting episode. Now to wait for subs.

[azrael]

Did the production know about Pokemon Go when they animated this episode?

People mashing their phone screens feels like they were part of the zombie horde that is Pokemon Go.

And at least they aren't ignoring the fact

that sex sells. Hey Bogue, your rune is sticking up.

I'm maintaining a negative vote here. This whole middle arc of the show has just felt dull. With Frontier, by this time, at least it felt like we were going somewhere. It feels like they're dragging their feet with this middle arc in Delta.

The death-flag for Cassim just rose a little higher. I don't think he'll die just yet, but he's gonna die.

[kajnrig]

Did the production know about Pokemon Go when they animated this episode?

People mashing their phone screens feels like they were part of the zombie horde that is Pokemon Go.

I kept thinking of Cookie Clicker myself.

[Product9]

Someone needs to make a shacking GIF from this image and add the "DECULTURE INTENSIFIES" title

You know, when I saw that scene I knew it was excellent GIF material. I'd do it myself, but I unfortunately don't know how to add words (in any way that would do this justice).

[kalvasflam]

Did the production know about Pokemon Go when they animated this episode?

People mashing their phone screens feels like they were part of the zombie horde that is Pokemon Go.

And at least they aren't ignoring the fact

that sex sells. Hey Bogue, your rune is sticking up.

I'm maintaining a negative vote here. This whole middle arc of the show has just felt dull. With Frontier, by this time, at least it felt like we were going somewhere. It feels like they're dragging their feet with this middle arc in Delta.

The death-flag for Cassim just rose a little higher. I don't think he'll die just yet, but he's gonna die.

Sex does sell, and it sells better than singing. You can tell Bogue is inexperienced here. Now it's obvious, with his initial reaction to Mikumo, she was showing too much skin for Bogue's taste, and that scared him.

I actually think this one merits a neutral because we finally got a better look at that Dulfim class ship, which I dub the Fat Quarter from now on. And how about those rows of Drakkens, too bad it's taking so long for them to show up.

[azrael]

Now it's obvious, with his initial reaction to Mikumo, she was showing too much skin for Bogue's taste, and that scared him.

Considering most Windermerans don't show that much skin, period. Cuz you know, Windermere is covered in snow and walking outside without anything less than a thick jacket is a bad idea.

[kalvasflam]

Considering most Windermerans don't show that much skin, period. Cuz you know, Windermere is covered in snow and walking outside without anything less than a thick jacket is a bad idea.

Unless you're magical Mikumo....

although I think I'm on the mark with Bogue, you don't see Cassim, or Keith freaking out at the sight of Walkure.... I attribute that to Bogue's lack of experience.

[abbadon]

Subs are out!

Edited July 25, 2016 by abbadon

[RedWolf]

Roid keeps asking why but he doesn't want to acknowledge the obvious truth that Earthers realized... The Protoculture can be a bunch of dicks. They create a race denying them culture to act as their war proxies. They leave a weapon of mass destruction on Earth in case the natives become like their mistakes to destroy them. Hell they nerfed Terrans own Fold Receptor potential as they can have access to their most advanced weapons if they have them.

And Roid keeps asking why Terrans that are weaker and no runes live longer and consider it unfair? While believing Windermereans are the true heirs of the Protoculture? Talk about conceit.

Well nobody is telling the truth as nobody knows the whole truth and skeletons in the closet.

Windermere NUNS illegally brought on a planet a MDE. Given what happened to Gaul 4 and the 33rd Marines yeah the NUNG would ban that. However NUNS is made up of different military forces in a NATO setup. There are cases where Federal NUNS doesn't know what some groups are doing like with Lactence and Havamal. As to why Windermere NUNS would do this I suspect it s because the cluster lacks a big stick like other planets in other regions of the galaxy. Earth has a fleet and defense satellite grid. Vulcan has a laser satellite grid. Varauta has the Fleet Flagship Carrier designed to kill off a thousand strong Zentradi fleet. Fleets we've seen on the cluster seem anemic. Al Shahal had 41 ships in its defense. Ragna had 29 ships. Macross 7 an emigration fleet had 187 warships. The Varauta fleet had 502 ships.

2059 to 2060 seems to be a bad years as uncultured Lost Zentradi fleets has attacked colonies. NUNS had to ask for assistance from the Aerial Knights to fight the Zentradi in their region of space. Sephira in Macross 30 in 2059 was attacked by Lost Zentradi as well.

Windermere higher ups on the other hand isn't telling the truth that they asked Wright Immelman to steal the MDE from Windermere NUNS. Those that knew that are probably pushing up daisies already.

So from those who knows the bit of the truth. Windermere blames NUNS for bringing the MDE planet side in the first place. NUNS blames Windermere for turning Wright Immelman and blowing up their base and the city.

The one who knows the whole truth of the matter is Wright Immelman. The missing piece as it were.

Why do I have a feeling he left a message on Freyja's player? He is likely the one who gave it to her.

As to why it was dropped some of theories going around is that Wright may have been a Var victim or Epsilon is involved.

[Roy Focker]

Neutral vote.

I liked most of the character development stuff.

What I didn't like was the lengthy musical number. Quality of animation was lacking in a episodes. Theory was they're saving resources for animating the musical numbers over animating other scenes. This episode is basically visual proof of that. Even this episode ran out of the money to animate some scenes. The elevator ride with Mirage and big guy took a hit in quality. The musical number didn't have to be so long to tell its part of the story.

[azrael]

Roid keeps asking why but he doesn't want to acknowledge the obvious truth that Earthers realized... The Protoculture can be a bunch of dicks. They create a race denying them culture to act as their war proxies. They leave a weapon of mass destruction on Earth in case the natives become like their mistakes to destroy them. Hell they nerfed Terrans own Fold Receptor potential as they can have access to their most advanced weapons if they have them.

And Roid keeps asking why Terrans that are weaker and no runes live longer and consider it unfair? While believing Windermereans are the true heirs of the Protoculture? Talk about conceit.

Someone is jel-ly.

Windermere NUNS illegally brought on a planet a MDE. Given what happened to Gaul 4 and the 33rd Marines yeah the NUNG would ban that. However NUNS is made up of different military forces in a NATO setup. There are cases where Federal NUNS doesn't know what some groups are doing like with Lactence and Havamal. As to why Windermere NUNS would do this I suspect it s because the cluster lacks a big stick like other planets in other regions of the galaxy. Earth has a fleet and defense satellite grid. Vulcan has a laser satellite grid. Varauta has the Fleet Flagship Carrier designed to kill off a thousand strong Zentradi fleet. Fleets we've seen on the cluster seem anemic. Al Shahal had 41 ships in its defense. Ragna had 29 ships. Macross 7 an emigration fleet had 187 warships. The Varauta fleet had 502 ships.

Like all WMDs, usage requires an executive order. And from previous NUNS comments, it sounds like that authorization came from someone much higher-up the food chain than a regional commanding officer.

Speculation time!

I think NUNS knew about the PC ruins on Windermere. Not wanting a repeat of the Birdman incident, they knew nukes won't hurt the thing so they brought in the MDE in case they lost control (In case of Protoculture emergency, break glass). A Mayan priestess share a similar function that a Wind Singer does. Two different cultures that grew up completely unaware of each other, who both have a being that share a similar function. It doesn't matter what you call them, shaman, priest, Wind Singer, idol. And it can't be a coincidence that 2 different species have this "idol". They all can interact with those Protoculture artifacts.

Wright could have been coerced into dropping the MDE. The Windermerans found out that NUNS had a WMD during their revolution and decided to pull that string. Without a trump card, Windermere has nothing in their revolution.

[Ghostbear0]

Someone is jel-ly.

Like all WMDs, usage requires an executive order. And from previous NUNS comments, it sounds like that authorization came from someone much higher-up the food chain than a regional commanding officer.

Speculation time!

I think NUNS knew about the PC ruins on Windermere. Not wanting a repeat of the Birdman incident, they knew nukes won't hurt the thing so they brought in the MDE in case they lost control (In case of Protoculture emergency, break glass). A Mayan priestess share a similar function that a Wind Singer does. Two different cultures that grew up completely unaware of each other, who both have a being that share a similar function. It doesn't matter what you call them, shaman, priest, Wind Singer, idol. And it can't be a coincidence that 2 different species have this "idol". They all can interact with those Protoculture artifacts.

Wright could have been coerced into dropping the MDE. The Windermerans found out that NUNS had a WMD during their revolution and decided to pull that string. Without a trump card, Windermere has nothing in their revolution.

I think your right the DE was in case of protoculture shenanigans break glass. Everyone in show seems to be ignoring the stole it after being in contact with the rebels part of that revelation. The Windermere version isn't correct the Spacy version just didn't mention that the trigerman was a traitor (and how the thing for there).

[Marzan]

I hadn't picked up on the Wright Immelman as a traitor to NUNS without the subs. I expect that there's much more to it than that and soon it will be revealed that Freyja knew Hayate's dad from back in the day.

[RedWolf]

Speculation time!

I think NUNS knew about the PC ruins on Windermere. Not wanting a repeat of the Birdman incident, they knew nukes won't hurt the thing so they brought in the MDE in case they lost control (In case of Protoculture emergency, break glass). A Mayan priestess share a similar function that a Wind Singer does. Two different cultures that grew up completely unaware of each other, who both have a being that share a similar function. It doesn't matter what you call them, shaman, priest, Wind Singer, idol. And it can't be a coincidence that 2 different species have this "idol". They all can interact with those Protoculture artifacts.

Wright could have been coerced into dropping the MDE. The Windermerans found out that NUNS had a WMD during their revolution and decided to pull that string. Without a trump card, Windermere has nothing in their revolution.

Rudanjal Rom Mayan. Note just a couple of years before that whole incident got declassified.

Brisingr Alliance NUNS higher up watches George Yamamori's Tori no Hito spits his drink hearing the word Mayan and the way Sara talks about Kadun is like how Windermereans keep talking about Wind.

[grigolosi]

If this is not a mis translation it was sure damn funny....

[Chronocidal]

Haven't seen this yet, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.

As far as the Mayan connection goes though.. So, if we assume Heinz and Sara were both equivalent within the structure of how the Protoculture set up their worlds, here's the biting question..

Once Shin broke through to Sarah and she convinced the bird human to hold off on the apocalypse, she zipped off into space, and Earth was left alone.

Does this mean that none of the planets with existing Protoculture ruins have had that same sort of event? Let's just call it a graduation exercise, where a species proves its worth in the Protoculture's eyes.

Just for simplicity's sake, let's assume that there was only the one "bird human" for this particular region of space, since it's apparently pretty densely populated. I'm guessing that's the Sigur Valens. Giving Roid the benefit of the doubt, and saying that yes, Windermere was put in charge of that region, I would assume that the fact that it still exists there means they haven't met the Protoculture's standards yet, and pushing things too far could well end up with the entire cluster being wiped out by Birdman MKII.

So, what does that make Mikumo? She clearly has vague memories of singing in those ruins, and experience with what types of things the wind singers can do, but no one knows her history, or birthday. She has some similarities, but she doesn't look Windermerean.

Could she be the last surviving member of a race who failed? She may have been in Sara's position, but with no Shin to bail out the planet at the last moment.

Which makes me wonder.. could the MDE deployment have been what prevented the same thing from happening to Windermere several years ago? The Sigur Valens could very well be from a different planet (possibly found in the ruins of Mikumo's world?) and the MDE was actually sufficient to defeat the bird human analogue on Windermere. Saving Windermere from themselves would definitely fit with the way Hayate's father was described.

Or, on the off chance she actually is from Windermere, could Mikumo have been the previous wind singer who was well on her way to the destruction of the planet when the MDE stopped her?

Edited July 25, 2016 by Chronocidal

[Roy Focker]

I think that was the translator having fun.

[Ghostbear0]

If this is not a mis translation it was sure damn funny....

Mistake no. Direct translation, also no. What's actually going through their heads .... ....(both of them) defiantly.

[spanner]

sub ver is out! Yes!!! now I got something to watch whilst bored at work!