Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 15 - READ 1st POST

kalvasflam · July 11, 2016

On 7/11/2016 at 7:43 PM, This Confuses Gamlin said:

About Windermeran tactical dominance:

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Mook Drakens have been seen on several occasions, starting off as background in Episode 4, then Episode 6, and joining everyone else in the big ball of fire in Episode 13. The series just really, really, really focuses on a few characters at a time—right now Chuck and Arad are barely background elements in fights.

Overall, the Windermerans have been fighting the only way they can: After their opponents have been weakened by Var and the Song of the Wind. It wouldn't make sense for them (or anyone with limited resources) to fight if there was a significant risk of their small force being destroyed by an obviously-superior opponent.

That doesn't entirely explain things such as how they easily overwhelmed the NUNS fleet in the first episode (which didn't appear to be affected by the Var breakout), but give a point there to better equipment and faster reflexes. I'll also acknowledge that the power of the writers is enormously strong (as well as Keith's multiple trope power-ups), but I don't have a huge problem with them managing to stay ahead of the game in the general sense.

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spanner · July 11, 2016

I saw the sub ver is up already! sweet! something to watch while im bored twiddling my thumbs at work!

guyxxed · July 11, 2016

I like Delta and am enjoying it, but in some ways it's in spite of itself rather than because of what it's giving us.

The biggest issue so far (in my opinion) has been a poorly defined and motivated antagonist, and this episode actually made that worse.

Impreszive · July 12, 2016

Sorry but even I am getting really tired of the constant beat down of the NUNS forces. This is getting a bit beyond ridiculous now. This episode had Amuro Ray Gundam levels of stupidity in that final fight. I had to vote this one down. At this point I am watching because it is Macross, but this show has been a definitive negative to me.

hulagu · July 12, 2016

On 7/11/2016 at 3:32 PM, azrael said:
He only acknowledges that Windermere is the "true" successors to Protoculture. Neither Humans nor any other races we've seen have ever made that claim.

Leon Mishima from Frontier made that claim in HIS Gihren Zabi speech as well. I rolled my eyes at that too.

Edited July 12, 2016 by hulagu

hulagu · July 12, 2016

On 7/11/2016 at 8:15 PM, kalvasflam said:

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So, some other thoughts on the episode, I see tons of death flags waving for Herman. The old geezer need to die. And let's face it, the evil twin with the fiancee is online to get whacked too. It would only be fair, and give us the other AKs crying moment, about how Herman was a generous person, and Xao or Theo had so much to live far, blah blah blah.

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Either NUNS is completely screwed up, or they are still not taking the Windermere seriously. That fleet should've had a Macross class ship if they were even half serious about attacking Windermere. On the commander of the UN fleet, was that one of the Perry brothers that was so famous from Macross F? I swear they are cloning these NUNS fleet commanders.

Edited July 12, 2016 by hulagu

This Confuses Gamlin · July 12, 2016

On 7/11/2016 at 8:15 PM, kalvasflam said:

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I swear they are cloning these NUNS fleet commanders.

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Solo Wing Pixy · July 12, 2016

It's always movember in the NUNS :3

RedWolf · July 12, 2016

Roid seems interested in Mikumo. If we are right that Mikumo was the pilot of Sigur Valens kidnapping her may not be a bright idea.

It may activate the AI and it is gong to ask if Windermere brought war into space. It will genocide the Windermereans as by the Protoculture standards they are failure race.

Sandman · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 8:06 AM, RedWolf said:

Roid seems interested in Mikumo. If we are right that Mikumo was the pilot of Sigur Valens kidnapping her may not be a bright idea.

It may activate the AI and it is gong to ask if Windermere brought war into space. It will genocide the Windermereans as by the Protoculture standards they are failure race.

When was Roid showing interest in Mikumo? I don't recall seeing that?

RedWolf · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 8:12 AM, Sandman said:
When was Roid showing interest in Mikumo? I don't recall seeing that?

He has interest in both Freyja and Mikumo due to their effect on the ruins. In this episode he is watching footage of Freyja and Mikumo during the last battle. Then he focuses on Mikumo. Which could mean he figured out who Mikumo is. As all hints point she has been on Windermere before.

trojan_gambit · July 12, 2016

Maybe NUNS should develop Fold jammer small enough to fit in each fighters.

The jamming capabilities should only need to protect the pilot from being affected by Heinz song.

On the galactic domination, I wonder how Windermere will manage that with such a small military force ?

Are they going to spread the apples & water all over the galaxy then have Heinz sing everytime ?

Conquering is one thing, but keeping hold is more difficult.

Product9 · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 8:38 AM, RedWolf said:

He has interest in both Freyja and Mikumo due to their effect on the ruins. In this episode he is watching footage of Freyja and Mikumo during the last battle. Then he focuses on Mikumo. Which could mean he figured out who Mikumo is. As all hints point she has been on Windermere before.

1468275251305.jpg

Hey, that's a good observation.

On 7/12/2016 at 9:11 AM, trojan_gambit said:

Maybe NUNS should develop Fold jammer small enough to fit in each fighters.

The jamming capabilities should only need to protect the pilot from being affected by Heinz song.

#WalkureForEveryValkyrie

Marzan · July 12, 2016

I've been reflecting about Windermere's dominance, and I believe that pretty soon we'll get the twist, with NUNS (this time led by shady Colonel and the Movember brigade) coming with some kind of massive canceler/jammer to the wind song. Then poor, poor Windermere will be on the verge of destruction only to be saved by Chaos who come to the conclusion that Windermere was a victim and not an agressor.

RedWolf · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 11:42 AM, Marzan said:
I've been reflecting about Windermere's dominance, and I believe that pretty soon we'll get the twist, with NUNS (this time led by shady Colonel and the Movember brigade) coming with some kind of massive canceler/jammer to the wind song. Then poor, poor Windermere will be on the verge of destruction only to be saved by Chaos who come to the conclusion that Windermere was a victim and not an agressor.

No Windermere is blatantly the aggressor. We already saw the jamming strategy. It works to an extent but ships that have them can be destroyed. They should invest in PBB I say.

Thom · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 8:38 AM, RedWolf said:

He has interest in both Freyja and Mikumo due to their effect on the ruins. In this episode he is watching footage of Freyja and Mikumo during the last battle. Then he focuses on Mikumo. Which could mean he figured out who Mikumo is. As all hints point she has been on Windermere before.

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Nice catch!

The question though is, how long ago was that? Was it about seven years ago and what we're seeing is maybe the first attempt to launch the Sigure Valens, or was that memory from 500 million years ago, in which case how did the castle exist for so long? Or does that even matter if she is a member of the freaking Protoculture!!

Edited July 12, 2016 by Thom

aurance · July 12, 2016

I feel like I should take a drink every time they say "wind". Okay I get it, you like wind.

Ghostbear0 · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 1:22 PM, aurance said:
I feel like I should take a drink every time they say "wind". Okay I get it, you like wind.

So you feel like comitting suicide by alcohol poisoning?! Don't do it man!!!

kalvasflam · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 8:06 AM, RedWolf said:

Roid seems interested in Mikumo. If we are right that Mikumo was the pilot of Sigur Valens kidnapping her may not be a bright idea.

It may activate the AI and it is gong to ask if Windermere brought war into space. It will genocide the Windermereans as by the Protoculture standards they are failure race.

Have you seen Mikumo? I'd be interested in her too if I were Roid, The man may need decorative glasses, but he is not blind.

On 7/12/2016 at 11:52 AM, RedWolf said:
No Windermere is blatantly the aggressor. We already saw the jamming strategy. It works to an extent but ships that have them can be destroyed. They should invest in PBB I say.

What??? and have the Aerial knights need more than a one shot kill???? That is just blasphemy, it's hard enough as it is that the Aerial Knights can't point to something and shout bang, to have it blown up.

On 7/12/2016 at 9:25 AM, Product9 said:
#WalkureForEveryValkyrie

Yeah, the NUNS pilots may vote for that, but the pop idols will all refuse.

1. It puts their lives in the hands of incompetent NUNS pilots.

2. They can't move around in that tiny cockpit for the VF-171, so no feeling the rythms.

3. The helmet will mess up their gorgeous hair.

Seto Kaiba · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 2:25 PM, kalvasflam said:
Have you seen Mikumo? I'd be interested in her too if I were Roid, The man may need decorative glasses, but he is not blind.

He's probably got a dozen different theories as to how Mikumo can keep that much hair tidy... or wondering how she can stand waking up each morning looking like Cousin It after a purple dyejob.

On 7/12/2016 at 2:25 PM, kalvasflam said:

Yeah, the NUNS pilots may vote for that, but the pop idols will all refuse.

1. It puts their lives in the hands of incompetent NUNS pilots.

2. They can't move around in that tiny cockpit for the VF-171, so no feeling the rythms.

3. The helmet will mess up their gorgeous hair.

I dunno, the Jammings Birds were up for it in Macross 7... never underestimate the power of someone wanting to be the next Minmay or Basara.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

NightmarePlus · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 2:25 PM, kalvasflam said:

Have you seen Mikumo? I'd be interested in her too if I were Roid, The man may need decorative glasses, but he is not blind.

What??? and have the Aerial knights need more than a one shot kill???? That is just blasphemy, it's hard enough as it is that the Aerial Knights can't point to something and shout bang, to have it blown up.

Yeah, the NUNS pilots may vote for that, but the pop idols will all refuse.

1. It puts their lives in the hands of incompetent NUNS pilots.

2. They can't move around in that tiny cockpit for the VF-171, so no feeling the rythms.

3. The helmet will mess up their gorgeous hair.

To be fair, the NUN pilots always have to deal with either mind control or beings who have superior physical traits and superior fighters. They're not so much as incompetent rather than they get the odds stacked against them in every engagement we've seen so far.

squaresphere · July 12, 2016

I have to echo a lot of the sentiment.

New OP is bland
Roid's reason for continuing the war doesn't make sense mostly because we left in the dark of the WHY's
The footage of the VF-22 seems sketchy as hell. BTW I don't think Hayate's father was the pilot, but rather he was the pilot of the craft recording the footage. I'm thinking he probably leak the footage to Windemere.
Roid's reason for galactic domination still seems really weak. He's been portrayed as a more kind and thoughtful character than Keith so making him so war mongering seems very awkward.
It honestly sounds like Windemere tried to use the ruins for something 7 years ago and NUNs knowing the galactic danger potential use one of their most powerful weapons to stop the threat.
I honestly thought Keith would be wearing some sort of Char mask during his injury reveal
I'm on the boat of it's fine Windemere is winning one sidedly but COME ON at least show several squadrons deployed not the same SIX guys that are doing 99% of the fighting.

azrael · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 1:22 PM, aurance said:
I feel like I should take a drink every time they say "wind". Okay I get it, you like wind.

I feel the Wind will be unkind to you. The Wind will force you from the skies to the ground. Can you not feel the unsettling Wind?

(We could do this all day )

Seto Kaiba · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 1:22 PM, aurance said:
I feel like I should take a drink every time they say "wind". Okay I get it, you like wind.

They're a long-winded bunch, no doubt about that...

aurance · July 12, 2016

Well I'm wasted now, thanks dudes.

But seriously. I always give Macross a lot of latitude in terms of implausibilities for story purposes, but Delta is really racking them up.

Edited July 12, 2016 by aurance

guyxxed · July 12, 2016

Agreed. Wasn't Roid the one saying that they'd gone far enough a few episodes ago and that they should start negotiations? Now in this episode he's the one refusing to talk and yelling 'death to the galaxy!' His character has gone back and forth a few times now between being the puppet master and being the reasonable, cautious one, with no real impetus for the change. It's starting to feel like a poorly written character.

Still have hopes that they'll pull it all together well enough for a satisfying finish, especially after a nice strong start to the series, but it's increasingly looking like Delta is unraveling. Too many unanswered questions, too many ambiguous motives, too much repetition, too much 'superpowers > skills'.

On a separate note, though, I wonder if the "We were supposed to do this together" talk between Roid and Keith is actually referencing a plot by the two of them to usurp the kingdom by manipulating Heinz until Gramia kicked off, rather than just executing the 'reclaim the cluster' plan. It would explain Keith's coldness toward Heinz and his insistence on pushing his little brother to his limits. Declaring war on the galaxy wouldn't seem to tie into that very well, so maybe not, but it would fit with everything else we've seen prior to the current episode.

kalvasflam · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 5:19 PM, Seto Kaiba said:
They're a long-winded bunch, no doubt about that...

Although I can imagine after a while in that cockpit, the wind might become a little smelly.

Oh, I just realized another silly reason why Roid is interested in Mikumo; her full name is Mikumo Guynemer.... which contracts to MiG.

Roidis looking at another class of fighters to base things from, after all, there is a base for VF-1 (F-14), VF-171 (F-17), VF-22 (F-22), VF-19 (X-29), VF-24 series (the love child of a SU-27 and F-22), the Drakken (duh....). May be he is thinking Mikumo can help start up the MiG line.

The one thing I really hope they don't do is to have Keith do a turn at the end of the series, they've kind of set up Keith for this in this episode, and you can see some of the Knights already grumbling, one can only hope that those AKs are killed before they have to flip flop. Give them a meaningful death I say.

Nazareno2012 · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 6:30 PM, kalvasflam said:
Roidis looking at another class of fighters to base things from, after all, there is a base for VF-1 (F-14), VF-171 (F-17), VF-22 (F-22), VF-19 (X-29), VF-24 series (the love child of a SU-27 and F-22), the Drakken (duh....). May be he is thinking Mikumo can help start up the MiG line.

For the record, the VF-22 is based on the YF-23 and the VF-19 is based on Grumman's Concept 9 ATF proposal.

azrael · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 6:21 PM, guyxxed said:
It would explain Keith's coldness toward Heinz and his insistence on pushing his little brother to his limits.

Speaking of which, perhaps we should change Keith's name to "I'm not a Stark" after that whole "I'm a knight"-bit during Heinz's coronation.

On 7/12/2016 at 6:30 PM, kalvasflam said:
... one can only hope that those AKs are killed before they have to flip flop. Give them a meaningful death I say.

Herman and one of the twins threw up death flags this week. The other old guy also threw up a death flag but the other 2 were waving them higher. I expect one of the twins to survive but he might die later on. It would probably be better if Keith and Roid kick the bucket.

TehPW · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 7:57 PM, azrael said:

Speaking of which, perhaps we should change Keith's name to "I'm not a Stark" after that whole "I'm a knight"-bit during Heinz's coronation.

Herman and one of the twins threw up death flags this week. The other old guy also threw up a death flag but the other 2 were waving them higher. I expect one of the twins to survive but he might die later on. It would probably be better if Keith and Roid kick the bucket.

At least some of the Wind pilots have their B*llsh*t flags available, in regards to very idea of Galactic Domination. I was kina hoping that Windermere would not have a Protoculture Toilet (because of the Dimensional Bomb going off) so that the windermeres can't be Var'ed themselves but I guess the bomb was used on the NUNS base instead and if anyone non-windy was on planet, instant case of facial Hemorrhoids...

Thom · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 6:21 PM, guyxxed said:
Agreed. Wasn't Roid the one saying that they'd gone far enough a few episodes ago and that they should start negotiations? Now in this episode he's the one refusing to talk and yelling 'death to the galaxy!' His character has gone back and forth a few times now between being the puppet master and being the reasonable, cautious one, with no real impetus for the change. It's starting to feel like a poorly written character.

His change of attitude may tie in with what Gramia told him just before he died. Until then, he did seem like the calm one, but then it's like some switch was flipped. Maybe he was told that Windemere caused the dimensional explosion and now he wants to cover that up too. It's easier to follow the flow claiming they were victims rather than put your hands up and admit they were wrong.

I'm hoping Freyja becomes a Wind Singer like Heinz to give him some slap-back and I hope one of the Knights bites it soon. It's been a cake-walk for them almost the entire way.

I would also think by now that some UN forces would have responded to the Ragna Island's distress call. If they sent one out that is... Seems kind of strange of they hadn't.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Thom

MisaForever · July 12, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 7:57 PM, azrael said:

Speaking of which, perhaps we should change Keith's name to "I'm not a Stark" after that whole "I'm a knight"-bit during Heinz's coronation.

Herman and one of the twins threw up death flags this week. The other old guy also threw up a death flag but the other 2 were waving them higher. I expect one of the twins to survive but he might die later on. It would probably be better if Keith and Roid kick the bucket.

Game of Winds?

This Confuses Gamlin · July 13, 2016

On 7/12/2016 at 11:13 PM, MisaForever said:
Game of Winds?

Every time I see someone stand on the outside of the Sigur Valens I expect someone else to try and push them off.

trojan_gambit · July 13, 2016

I do would like to see Windermere attack Vajra planet, they'll be facing off against Frontier's Skull squadron + Sheryl-Ranka.

By the way, is VF-31's main rifle usable in fighter mode without being flip over to the dorsal ?

eko.prasetiyo · July 13, 2016

On 7/13/2016 at 3:41 AM, trojan_gambit said:

I do would like to see Windermere attack Vajra planet, they'll be facing off against Frontier's Skull squadron + Sheryl-Ranka.

By the way, is VF-31's main rifle usable in fighter mode without being flip over to the dorsal ?

vajra planet are near galactic core while winderemere are at the edge of galaxy, they need very long distance fold to get there. unless sigur valens are able to do that.

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