Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 15 - READ 1st POST

[kalvasflam]

As Azrael said in the last episode thread, the Windermere Knights need a good ass-whoopin'. I'm tired of seeing them wipe out ENTIRE FLEETS with just a few ships, and even in this episode Keith taking out a large chunk by himself. I try to feel for them but it just isn't happening. They want everyone else to suffer and surrender and feel as if they're entitled. /rantover

i still wonder if the reason here is because the actual Windermere can't take an ass whooping. No ships. Right now, if all six AKs die, Windermere has essentially nothing other than the SV if you take what you see on screen literally.

Waiting for the subs, but with all of those protoculture structures, does that mean more than one SV class ship?

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't see how Windermere can't use child soldiers. Most are likely eligible for military service before they hit their teens. If Frejya is suppose to be married at her age, then for sure Windermerans can enter military service at what humans would consider, childhood ages. If Raito couldn't shoot down children, it would be understandable because at the time, Hayate would have been 10 years old. Probably the same age Windermere children are eligible for military service.

The question is "whose definition of child soldier?"

For a Windermerean, being 10 years old is equivalent to a Human being 23 in terms of the percentage of the average life expectancy. To us, 14 is a kid... to Freyja, 14 is early middle age. Hermann, Keith, Qasim, and Roid are all old men by Windermere's standards.

[Sandman]

Anyone able to make out the color scheme for that vf-22?

[seti88]

Not much of a spoiler... new opening.

Found the MV via taghobby of all places...

http://www.taghobby.com/9-0/9-2/music-video-tv%E5%8B%95%E7%95%AB%E3%80%8Amacross-delta%E3%80%8B-%E6%96%B0opening-song/

which links to youtube...

Edited July 11, 2016 by seti88

[kuyaaids]

Anyone else getting tired of seeing the NUNS getting their crap kicked in at this point?

Same here, the Frontier NUNS had better k/d with Vajra after getting their MDE fix XD

[kalvasflam]

couple of things I just noticed on rewatching the opening: there was this one scene with Keith and a rapid flip through of a bunch of characters. I am wondering what that is about, part of me is hoping that is going to be a death thread for the rest of the series, i.e. who is going to kick the bucket.

Speaking of Keith, I'm kind of wondering, didn't the shot from Hayate come from his left side? So, why is his right side bandaged and such, honestly, I would've much preferred if Keith came out like this.

Obviously, with blond hair, and may be with his rune burnt off.

it makes him look more intimidating than he is now. Make the super robot thing just a bit more believable.

[seti88]

There was a moment in there when I felt like i was watching a CNN broadcast of the king's inauguration..

Edited July 11, 2016 by seti88

[Tochiro]

The GerTalk for ep.15 of Delta is up! As usual, spoiler warning is in effect.

http://www.macrossworld.com/speakerpodcast-ep-57-macrossΔ-ep-15-spoilercast/

[UN Spacy]

SUBS ARE OUT!

[charles88]

Im glad and commented that EVEN Aerial Knight ADMIT that what they did in war is very wrong, cowardly and downright dirty by using Vars and not very righteous . That shows that Windermere and Aerial Knight ARE NOT Self righteous delusional hypocrite

[azrael]

Im glad and commented that EVEN Aerial Knight ADMIT that what they did in war is very wrong, cowardly and downright dirty by using Vars and not very righteous . That shows that Windermere and Aerial Knight ARE NOT Self righteous delusional hypocrite

But their continued use of the ruins means what? Now they want to take over the galaxy. That's greed and arrogance. Without the ruins, Windermere has no bargaining chip. When they lose that chip, a whole lot of people are going to want payback.

[eko.prasetiyo]

But their continued use of the ruins means what? Now they want to take over the galaxy. That's greed and arrogance. Without the ruins, Windermere has no bargaining chip. When they lose that chip, a whole lot of people are going to want payback.

how old is heinz? and how long does he can sing with those high pitch voice like that? normal men when grow adult will loose that ability or heinz got castrated so he wont grow like normal. perhaps that also keith means when they dont have much time, if heinz growup & loose that ability, winderemere dont have enough firepower to fight the battle.

[zathras]

But their continued use of the ruins means what? Now they want to take over the galaxy. That's greed and arrogance. Without the ruins, Windermere has no bargaining chip. When they lose that chip, a whole lot of people are going to want payback.

Since the Protoculture ruins are causing so much spiritia/fold waves disturbance, i'm surprised that any of the Protodevlin haven't investigated yet. If Mikumo was an Anima Spiritia, it should attract the attention of the Protodevlin just to find out if it's a threat. Remember that the last time those ruins were used, they were successful in imprisoning the Protodevlin. Even if the majority of the Protodevlin aren't in the galaxy, the Varuta fleet will be used to investigate as well as Gavil as he was shown to be hanging around the Macross Frontier fleet. I'm sure that it's in the Protodevlin's interest that those ruins are wiped out.

Anyway i'm surprised that the NUNS haven't been broadcasting FireBomber's songs very loudly thru out galaxy. Remember that the Macross7 fleet was able to find Basara in the Space Whales planet by his singing even if it's across the galaxy. What i'm expecting is a Fold Space Music Battle to see who can make the most noise in the galaxy. If Basara's annoying voice is enough to wake Gipilnich from imprisonment, then it's more than powerful enough to disrupt Heinz' sub par singing.

Edited July 11, 2016 by zathras

[azrael]

how old is heinz? and how long does he can sing with those high pitch voice like that? normal men when grow adult will loose that ability or heinz got castrated so he wont grow like normal. perhaps that also keith means when they dont have much time, if heinz growup & loose that ability, winderemere dont have enough firepower to fight the battle.

Windermerans aren't humans. And even if Heinz's voice matures, what happens when they want to spread his voice out that far? He's going to exert himself more, draining more of his strength. He's going top need a week to recover, not days. So I'm not terribly worried about Heinz growing up. The kid might run out of juice before he grows old.

What did Messer say? There's not such thing as a duel or a fair fight or something like that?

That pretty much sums up my response to Herman's remark about using Var. Plain and simple, using the ruins to increase the reaction to Var is a bargaining chip. Windermere is exploiting it.

[zathras]

Windermerans aren't humans. And even if Heinz's voice matures, what happens when they want to spread his voice out that far? He's going to exert himself more, draining more of his strength. He's going top need a week to recover, not days. So I'm not terribly worried about Heinz growing up. The kid might run out of juice before he grows old.

What did Messer say? There's not such thing as a duel or a fair fight or something like that?

That pretty much sums up my response to Herman's remark about using Var. Plain and simple, using the ruins to increase the reaction to Var is a bargaining chip. Windermere is exploiting it.

What happens to Heinz voice when puberty starts. Male voice usually starts to change when they get older. Is that why they need to get things accomplished asap. They need a young boy's voice as they can't trust a girl/women to sing the song for the Var effect.

Edited July 11, 2016 by zathras

[Ghostbear0]

What happens to Heinz voice when puberty starts. Male voice usually starts to change when they get older. Is that why they need to get things accomplished asap. They need a young boy's voice as they can't trust a girl/women to sing the song for the Var effect.

Why would his voice changing have any effect?

[Roy Focker]

Neutral

It nice to see a more in depth view of the Knights and Windermere. They have some characterization now.

[RedWolf]

Well Roid is obsessed with Windermereans being the inheritors of the Protoculture not the Terrans and other races that he wants to conquer the galaxy creating a slave empire like the one Protoculture had with the Zentradi.

Looks like he isn't privy to or does not acknowledge what Terrans have learned of the Protoculture. They were a foolish race that destroyed themselves through war. They were afraid that their seeded races would follow their footsteps. That they hope their descendants would come together through love thus a proof of peace that they desired.

These were from the Zentradi's own records, declassified events of Macross Zero and what happened on Rax. As for the latter NUNS still keeps the Varauta campaign classified as per Macross FB7. All the galaxy knows Fire Bomber beat the Protodevlin. However as per Macross Frontier it is popular belief that the Protoculture created the seeded races out of hope for peace.

[Midnight_Wyvern]

Considering the ending of the new episode and the conversation with the rescued pilot, I'm thinking Hayate is the son of the VF-22 pilot who deployed the dimensional weapon.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Midnight_Wyvern

[Marzan]

Anyone else getting tired of seeing the NUNS getting their crap kicked in at this point?

Amen to that brother.

I think that the writing team behind Delta is basically grinding NUNS into obsolescence. Even in Frontier and Zero, despite not being as good as the shows "heroes", they were fairly competent and well armed. Here in Delta, Heinz just shoots them down with his 'superpowers'. I almost feel like I'm watching some saturday morning shounen. Like Seto said, the only thing keeping them from winning the galaxy entirely is that they have to break for tea or something. I hope that changes soon, but I feel that will not be next episode. That will be all about Hayate going full emo when he finds out whatever it is his dad did in the past

[daflip702]

To me, it doesn't make any sense that NUNS would send a huge "scouting" fleet. Cocky Much? Or perhaps to show off Keith doing a Lebron James on the opposition.


BTW, Does the new OP suggest that Hayate is the new 02? Also, I like the new OP song, it has a sultry style to it.

[Midnight_Wyvern]

To me, it doesn't make any sense that NUNS would send a huge "scouting" fleet. Cocky Much? Or perhaps to show off Keith doing a Lebron James on the opposition.

BTW, Does the new OP suggest that Hayate is the new 02? Also, I like the new OP song, it has a sultry style to it.

Sultry is putting it mildly.

[azrael]

...

Looks like he isn't privy to or does not acknowledge what Terrans have learned of the Protoculture. They were a foolish race that destroyed themselves through war. They were afraid that their seeded races would follow their footsteps. That they hope their descendants would come together through love thus a proof of peace that they desired.

...

He only acknowledges that Windermere is the "true" successors to Protoculture. Neither Humans nor any other races we've seen have ever made that claim.

[RedWolf]

He only acknowledges that Windermere is the "true" successors to Protoculture. Neither Humans nor any other races we've seen have ever made that claim.

Majority of the races never made the claim. Only the Zentradi fringe element Fasces made that claim seeing the Earth being the second coming of the Protoculture Stellar Republic.

Keith pretty much hit it on the head Terrans don't care about the Protoculture or Windermere's claims of inheritance. It boils down Windermereans or Roid's insecurities of Terrans being a more advanced and longer lived race. Those other races have comparable lifespans as Terrans. Zentradi are more longer lived. Terrans in 57 years has established an interstellar community not them.

Roid thinks they are conquering the galaxy when in truth Terrans are running away as far apart from each other as they can so Zentradi wont wipe out the species. Most of the sapient humanoid life in the galaxy are still Zentradi.

[MisaForever]

If it means anything, Herman is my favorite of the Knights. Probably because he's the most mature. >_>

[Bryan Cranston]

Next episode is a birthday... I hope all of our characters have a Happy Birthday

[Ghostbear0]

Next episode is a birthday... I hope all of our characters have a Happy Birthday

With any luck it will be Herman celebrating the ripe old 34 with his grandbaby.

[Mommar]

I think the problem is that the Antagonists haven't been established as being enough of a threat and there's a "Super Robot" compensation being delivered on all of the NUNS forces to try to sloppily show how tough they are. But it just comes off as goofy and one-sided. I'd been enjoying the show so far but the same six fighters wiping out entire squadrons is getting a bit old now.

[NightmarePlus]

That whole scene felt a bit Gundam-esque to me.

[zaino]

hmm, whos right and whos wrong morally/ethically?

NUNS being clowns

Roid on par with NUNS to go off the deep end

Ariel Knights being conflicted

Chaos late to the party as usual


will there be a split between within Windemere? the younger 3 are brash and arrogant while the older two are a fair bit wiser. Keith "follows the wind" If there is a split which side does Kieth join?

theres what? 10? 9? episodes left? very interested to see how things follow after being set up on this episode.

does heinz collapse after every song of the wind or only when Walkure interferes? He sang in front of a whole crowd of people, pretty bold if he collapsed there.

Edited July 11, 2016 by zaino

[Thom]

Show

Also getting tired of the NUNS always getting arse-whuppied!


The NUNS are the seed branch of the current galactic culture. They didn't get that way by being anybodies punching bag. And yet we still see them flying the VF-171. I would have thought by this time they would be flying the VF-25 at least, if not the VF-27!


And why wouldn't they have a Macross with any fleet going up against such high odds? Makes me think there's a separate storyline in here about the NUNS, and that perhaps some of them are working for their own ends.

Consider the loss of Ragna. When the reaction bomb went off, the NUNS tool didn't seem surprised that it didn't stop the Whindmerens from conquering. He just mentioned having the data they needed. Unless that was for the jamming system, which they really need to up-scale!


Anyway, you can bet the jammers will be used again, but with better protection next time. The was the first test in battle for it. They proved it works, just as long as they keep it safe. If I was them I'd have those things mounted on very ship and every fighter!


The vid of the dimensional weapon going off seems pretty shaky. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a hoax. But if it isn't, then my bet is on Hayate's father being the pilot. It's already been set up that he's been to many unnamed places, and someone attached to a special forces unit certainly wouldn't be able to tell people where he's going or where he's been.


As for Mikuma, I don't think she's Protodeviln. I think she is one of the Protoculture!


Perhaps found in stasis not too long ago and not remembering her distant past. I think what she is seeing are memories of the Protocultre at its zenith, and the part where's she's floating nude in space is when she was discovered.


If so, that would make her a direct threat to Heinz, for when she remembers finally, she may end up being more powerful than anyone realizes.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Thom

[Product9]

That whole scene felt a bit Gundam-esque to me.

And the power creep continues

[Seto Kaiba]

Show

The NUNS are the seed branch of the current galactic culture. They didn't get that way by being anybodies punching bag. And yet we still see them flying the VF-171. I would have thought by this time they would be flying the VF-25 at least, if not the VF-27!

The New UN Government and New UN Forces are not the monolithic entities that the pre-reorganization UN Government and UN Forces were... the individual member worlds and emigrant fleets have a lot more autonomy now, and consequently have a lot more latitude in how they arm the military forces they raise and maintain.

Most, if not all, of what we've seen from the New UN Spacy in Macross Delta is the local boys. They're not the central (real) New UN Spacy, they're the defense forces from each individual Brisingr Alliance member planet. In some ways, each planet and fleet is an independent nation in a strategic alliance raising, maintaining, and equipping its own armed forces. In others, those local New UN Spacy troops are kind of like the central New UN Spacy's equivalent of the National Guard Reserve.

Part of that autonomy I mentioned is that the various fleets and planets are partially on their own when it comes to developing new fighters and so on to arm their troops with. The VF-171 Nightmare Plus was the last main variable fighter to be mandated by the central NUNS before the government finished decentralizing, so each fleet and planet has to decide on their own what to replace it with. Some fleets buy stripped-down "monkey model" versions of what the central NUNS is using, while others use the specs as a starting point to develop their own new fighters for themselves and for sale to their allies/trading partners. That second category is where the new fighters from Macross Frontier and Macross Delta fit in. The VF-25, VF-27, and VF-31 are all "original" aircraft developed by, and for, various emigrant fleets and planets based (sometimes loosely) on the stripped-down specs for the YF-24 Evolution prototype which were shared around the galaxy by the central New UN Spacy. Some planets will keep using the VF-171 until the damned things fall apart because they're cheap. Some will buy Shinsei/LAI's VF-25 from the Frontier fleet, some will buy General Galaxy's VF-27 from the Galaxy fleet, some will buy Surya Aerospace's VF-31 (like Kaos did), and some will doubtless buy fighters that we haven't seen yet. The one thing that's pretty much guaranteed, based on what's been said of this situation, is that the central New UN Spacy will definitely have THE BIGGEST STICK so that it will always outclass the local forces.

And why wouldn't they have a Macross with any fleet going up against such high odds? Makes me think there's a separate storyline in here about the NUNS, and that perhaps some of them are working for their own ends.

That's a good question... one we've been pondering over in the Mecha & Technology thread. The Brisingr cluster was settled by at least one 3rd Generation or later emigrant fleet, so there should be one or more Battle-class ships kicking around.

[RedWolf]

That's a good question... one we've been pondering over in the Mecha & Technology thread. The Brisingr cluster was settled by at least one 3rd Generation or later emigrant fleet, so there should be one or more Battle-class ships kicking around.

Could be perspective but I'm starting to think Barette City didn't leave Earth or Eden with a Battle class.

An Uruga may fit the dock instead.

When it first arrived on Ragna.

Edited July 11, 2016 by RedWolf

[This Confuses Gamlin]

About Windermeran tactical dominance:

Mook Drakens have been seen on several occasions, starting off as background in Episode 4, then Episode 6, and joining everyone else in the big ball of fire in Episode 13. The series just really, really, really focuses on a few characters at a time—right now Chuck and Arad are barely background elements in fights.

Overall, the Windermerans have been fighting the only way they can: After their opponents have been weakened by Var and the Song of the Wind. It wouldn't make sense for them (or anyone with limited resources) to fight if there was a significant risk of their small force being destroyed by an obviously-superior opponent.

That doesn't entirely explain things such as how they easily overwhelmed the NUNS fleet in the first episode (which didn't appear to be affected by the Var breakout), but give a point there to better equipment and faster reflexes. I'll also acknowledge that the power of the writers is enormously strong (as well as Keith's multiple trope power-ups), but I don't have a huge problem with them managing to stay ahead of the game in the general sense.

Edited July 11, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin