Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 15 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

Welcome to the Macross Delta Episode 15 Talkback Thread

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New episode threads and polls opens Sundays, 9:00AM EST/6:00AM PST (22:00, i.e. 10:00PM JST), 30 minutes BEFORE the broadcast.

Broadcast schedule:

Sunday: Tokyo MX, 22:30 JST

Monday: TVQ Kyushu, 26:30 (2:30 AM) JST

Tuesday: MBS, 27:00 (3:00 AM) JST / BS11, 24:00 (midnight) JST

Wednesday: d anime store, 12:00 JST / TV Aichi & Television Hokkaido, 26:05 (2:05 AM) JST

(Broadcast times subject to change, Check listings.)

[akt_m]

So, it seems Arad knew Hayate's father from what the rescued pilot said.

Edited July 10, 2016 by akt_m

[RedWolf]

Just as the populace of Windermere think the war is over it turns out it has begun. Roid declares war on the entire galaxy. With the Protoculture ruin network they can mind control the entire galaxy... Where have I heard that before? As propaganda he shows a VF-22 launching a MDE on Windermere's surface as proof of NUNS wrong doing. Even if the video is true I find that doubtful as the VF-22 is already at the hands of civilian racers, terrorists and pirates. Not to mention Carlisle is where the NUNS base was. Keith and Roid fought in that war.

The newly crowned Heinz sings bringing all the ruins out of Fold Space. Mikumo starts to have a memory of her past.

NUNS send a taskforce with Fold Jamming to face the threat. It protect them from Var however Keith boosted by his resonance with Heinz destroys the entire fleet by himself. Leaving only one survivor to be retrieved by Delta platoon.

This guy was a comrade of Arad. Recognizing Hayate he asks his name. He then questions Arad of his decision as he is Raito Imellman's son.

Speculation: Mikumo is one of the Anima Spiritia than sealed the Protodevln 500,000 years ago.

[eko.prasetiyo]

why I think winderemere are kinda greedy, at first they said they gonna "liberated" brisingr cluster from NUNS/earthling. now they already control the cluster then what after that? did they make those world independent from NUNG and govern themself? no, they ruled by winderemere kingdom. and now they want the entire galaxy, I think they has become something that they hate. winderemerean hate human/earthling cause they think human take freedom from the cluster and now look whose taking freedom from those world?

[RedWolf]

why I think winderemere are kinda greedy, at first they said they gonna "liberated" brisingr cluster from NUNS/earthling. now they already control the cluster then what after that? did they make those world independent from NUNG and govern themself? no, they ruled by winderemere kingdom. and now they want the entire galaxy, I think they has become something that they hate. winderemerean hate human/earthling cause they think human take freedom from the cluster and now look whose taking freedom from those world?

To them Sky means all of space as they still think they are the center of the universe. Reclaiming their Sky started with planet then it became the cluster now the galaxy.This plan of theirs reeks of Macross Galaxy. Makes you wonder if they had a hand in this.

Edited July 10, 2016 by RedWolf

[ManhattanProject972]

Finally! Some good Draken battroid mode action.

[starla]

what, birthday episode next??? ahhhhhh, throwbacks of birthdays past

heheh, can't resist this... to Graham:

yes to mecha action albeit just wee towards the end

[l3fty84]

To them Sky means all of space as they still think they are the center of the universe. Reclaiming their Sky started with planet then it became the cluster now the galaxy.This plan of theirs reeks of Macross Galaxy. Makes you wonder if they had a hand in this.

Actually, it's only Roid who is pushing this whole Galactic War against Earthlings, Keith is sort of following him, though he warned him that he would end him if he goes overboard, Heinz is pretty much just following their lead at this time.

Aside from younger trio of knights, everybody else went "wtf" at Roid declaring Galactic War, hell, Kassim sounded like he wanted to wring a neck or 2 when he heard that.

[UN Spacy]

Called it...Keith's got a HUGE ol' battle scar...whoa.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Called it...Keith's got a HUGE ol' battle scar...whoa.

This series will end with him trying to drop a giant chandelier on someone?

Also, in the Episode 14 thread I was wondering if...

...the Ragna Megaroad really had gone off that far into space by itself. The map shown in this episode

does show additional mapped locations between the cluster and where the rest of the fleets are, though it does look like most of the Seeding Project went the other way.

Edited July 10, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[starla]

Called it...Keith's got a HUGE ol' battle scar...whoa.

hahahahah, soooo sexxxyyyyy

This series will end with him trying to drop a giant chandelier on someone?

the random musical numbers are in place... i say we're almost there!

[eko.prasetiyo]

what connection between the rescued pilot, arad & raito immelman? is raito the one that detonate MDE in winderemere? or is it arad involved in raito death?

[Gerli]

what connection between the rescued pilot, arad & raito immelman? is raito the one that detonate MDE in winderemere? or is it arad involved in raito death?

My money on that.

[Marzan]

I was surprised by this episode.

It was extremely Windermere-centric. I know that we're supposed to be sympathetic to them. They're being played and manipulated. But they are so incredibly arrogant, smug and unaware of the pain and destruction that they inflict on others, that I want nothing else than to see them ground into dust.

I bet the thing with Hayate's pappa is going to cause him to go full Amuro in the desert. Maybe his dad is responsible for the bomb in Windermere.

[kalvasflam]

Not much of a spoiler... new opening.

[Product9]

what connection between the rescued pilot, arad & raito immelman? is raito the one that detonate MDE in winderemere? or is it arad involved in raito death?

That's what I was thinking. Hayate's father is probably the guy who dropped the weapon on Windermere, or at least related in some way. The guy they rescued didn't seem to like him too much.

I also got the vibe that Arad was trying to protect Hayate by the way he stood in front of him then, so I don't think Arad did anything bad, but maybe Hayate's father did. Interesting turn of events.

In any case, it was nice to see a VF-22. I always like when they bring stuff from previous shows back - helps the world feel more cohesive.

Also, apparently Keith's right eye was only holding him back

Oh yeah, and...

Not crazy about the new OP, but hopefully it'll grow on me. Loving the new ending, though

Edited July 10, 2016 by Product9

[kajnrig]

Liking the new OP well enough. Not much of an impression until subs are out, though. Too much necessarily flew over my head.

[NightmarePlus]

Anyone else getting tired of seeing the NUNS getting their crap kicked in at this point?

[kalvasflam]

Regarding the new opening, it seems to be generic, and didn't do a lot of foreshadowing at first glance compared to Mac F.

But I suppose it is a bit too early to tell.

[Alberich]

Oh yeah, and...

Not crazy about the new OP, but hopefully it'll grow on me. Loving the new ending, though

Regarding the new opening, it seems to be generic, and didn't do a lot of foreshadowing at first glance compared to Mac F.

But I suppose it is a bit too early to tell.

Well the new OP sure is a let down, it seems so flat, generic.... mmm don't know which word can be the best to describe how it feels, but surely, it does not feel right. In the other hand the new ED is awesome animation and performance wise.

And for the chapter:

I need subs to get more of the info here, but it was nice to see the VF-22 and Sv-154 in action... hope is a foreshadowing of Bandai doing those two DX

[Ghostbear0]

Anyone else getting tired of seeing the NUNS getting their crap kicked in at this point?

Yes.

[eko.prasetiyo]

I was surprised by this episode.

It was extremely Windermere-centric. I know that we're supposed to be sympathetic to them. They're being played and manipulated. But they are so incredibly arrogant, smug and unaware of the pain and destruction that they inflict on others, that I want nothing else than to see them ground into dust.

I bet the thing with Hayate's pappa is going to cause him to go full Amuro in the desert. Maybe his dad is responsible for the bomb in Windermere.

lets see arad & ernest seems hide many things about the winderemere war 7 years ago yet there's not much they tell to other personel of kaos ragna + walkure. why they hid it? hayate will begin his journey to know the truth about his father, perhaps he would go sneaks to winderemere with freya just to find it out. if hayate somehow know the "real" stories from berger / roid / keith, he might be change sides (for awhile)

[UN Spacy]

Kinda not feeling the NEW OP compared to the first.

Definitely not stepping up the stakes like Lion did for Frontier.

[kalvasflam]

ok, like people said, very Windermere centric. And I don't quite know why I should car. There was a significant focus on the Aerial Knights, whom honestly hope would start becoming red shirts soon. I don't care much about Cassim's stupid apple farm or Bogue's dead family. My reaction to that Bogue scene was, oh, they died? Whatever, move on, it could have only been worth if it was the twins visiting their dead parents.

The problem I have with this show are all the excess characters and the needless scenes on them. Consider Kanam for example, development with the Messer arc and dropped right back to uselessness after her declaration to Mikumo that she was going to matter. Makes me wonder if there was a deleted scene with them in private where Mikumo put Kaname back in her place with a few choice words and a Mikumo slam.

Now, onto the NUNS task force. It seems like the only thing that Uragas, Guantanamos, and Northamptons are good for is explosion bait. Why even bother. Now what I actually mind is not the NUNS task force going kaboom, more the Super robot Keith aspect of the show. With his Bretai eye patch, aside from his power to hold his pee for prolonged period, he has gained the power of single handedly killing lots of redshirts without batting an eyelash.

I really wish they would have shot some footage of Vared NUNS fighting non Vared NUNS in ship to ship and then recycle the footage. It would make this a better story. I can't stand the super robot aspect of this show.

As for the footage of the VF-22 dropping the MDE, looks suspiciously doctored to me.

It is obvious that they spent money on animation on this episode. It's just too bad the story quality doesn't seem to match up.

This fits starting to feel like Gundam Seed.

Edited July 10, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Seto Kaiba]

Sitting down to review this one now...

Well, the new OP does nothing for me... the first one was much better.

As nice as it is to have the Windermerean side of this equation get some long-overdue characterization, there's not a lot going on in the first half. The Aerial Knights get together for a bit of self-congratulation over the successful completion of the Starwind Sector, and Bogue goes off on his own to angst in front of a grave. Keith is back and he has a stylish new eyepatch, apparently because he wants to be a Char even more than Lord Feff did back in Macross II. Speaking of Gundam, we get Roid's equivalent of Gihren's "Sieg Zeon!" speech at Garma's funeral, where he laments the loss of the king and then declares war on the entire fricking galaxy. We get a quick remembrance of a shot-down Keith and Roid watching that huge dimension eater detonation, which leaves me suspecting that Roid has been pulling the strings behind this all along because of his belief that Windermereans are the true successors to the Protoculture. Figures they'd point the finger at the New UN Spacy... they probably dropped the sodding bomb themselves and Gramia covered it up to protect his son.

In the second half we get a little plot progression... the New UN Spacy has a countermeasure that can actually protect their soldiers from Heinz's song, and we finally get some of that long overdue Macross Plus-style full-transforming dogfight that was so conspicuously absent in previous episodes. Unfortunately, Keith is still a Marty Stu, so the fold jamming that's protecting the entire New UN Spacy fleet somehow doesn't remotely inhibit his ability to get a fold wave power up from Heinz, and he proceeds to destroy every ship with the jamming system so the rest succumb to Var syndrome and are either wiped out or enslaved. Lather, rinse, repeat the same old tired bullshit.

I really, really hope this series is going to be two seasons long... because what we've been getting since Windermere openly declared war is basically the same shabby mess as the first twenty or so episodes of Macross 7. The protagonists boldly sally forth and accomplish absolutely nothing, while the enemy amuses itself with kicking the redshirts around with technologically superior aircraft. The problem with Delta is that, where Macross 7 had Diamond and Emerald Force to show the audience that the reason the Varauta Army hadn't already won the war was because they were facing stiff opposition rather than because they were getting bored and going home before sealing the deal. We don't have any of that assurance in Delta. Unless Delta Platoon and Walkure are involved, the fights only end two ways: when Windermere's Aerial Knights wipe out all opposition without taking any casualties of their own, or when they get bored and go home for reasons unclear. It doesn't give you the feeling that the New UN Forces are even in the fight... you're left with the impression that the only thing standing between Windermere and galactic domination is Heinz's rigidly enforced naptime or a bizarre compulsion to be home in time for tea. Delta Platoon and Walkure have certainly shown they can't hack it, so who's gonna save the universe now? Is Basara gonna come back, all withered-looking like Keith Richards or Mick Jagger, and sing us to victory with the classics? Seriously, I'd actually take that at this point... and as many of you know, I emphatically dislike Basara as a character. That's how frustrated I am with this series right now.

I'm afraid I have to offer up a negative vote... and will probably continue to do so until Windermere's one-sided curbstomp-a-thon comes to an end.

[azrael]

Quick-viewing.

New opening sucks. Can we get the old one back?

Something looks odd about that VF-22 footage. Unless MDEs haven gotten smaller, that drop looks more missile-like. And last time we saw an explosion like that, a whole planet got consumed.

As I've said many times before,

Windermere just steamrolling through NUNS is just boring and grossly repetitive at this point. I found Keith kicking ass the low point of this episode, enough to justify fast-forwarding through. Yeah they're winning because the other side has no defense against them. By this point, in Frontier, even NUNS forces were starting to mitigate their losses with the Vajra. Even with M7's battle repetitiveness at least Varauta birds were being shot down.

At this point, if Windermere

gets nuked into oblivion, I would not shed a tear. I find them arrogant, greedy, and as Chris Rock would say, Windermere ain't above an ass-whoopin'. If that ass-whoopin' involves genocide, so be it. I don't see any redeeming value to them. Except Frejya.

[kalvasflam]

Sitting down to review this one now...

Well, the new OP does nothing for me... the first one was much better.

As nice as it is to have the Windermerean side of this equation get some long-overdue characterization, there's not a lot going on in the first half. The Aerial Knights get together for a bit of self-congratulation over the successful completion of the Starwind Sector, and Bogue goes off on his own to angst in front of a grave. Keith is back and he has a stylish new eyepatch, apparently because he wants to be a Char even more than Lord Feff did back in Macross II. Speaking of Gundam, we get Roid's equivalent of Gihren's "Sieg Zeon!" speech at Garma's funeral, where he laments the loss of the king and then declares war on the entire fricking galaxy. We get a quick remembrance of a shot-down Keith and Roid watching that huge dimension eater detonation, which leaves me suspecting that Roid has been pulling the strings behind this all along because of his belief that Windermereans are the true successors to the Protoculture. Figures they'd point the finger at the New UN Spacy... they probably dropped the sodding bomb themselves and Gramia covered it up to protect his son.

In the second half we get a little plot progression... the New UN Spacy has a countermeasure that can actually protect their soldiers from Heinz's song, and we finally get some of that long overdue Macross Plus-style full-transforming dogfight that was so conspicuously absent in previous episodes. Unfortunately, Keith is still a Marty Stu, so the fold jamming that's protecting the entire New UN Spacy fleet somehow doesn't remotely inhibit his ability to get a fold wave power up from Heinz, and he proceeds to destroy every ship with the jamming system so the rest succumb to Var syndrome and are either wiped out or enslaved. Lather, rinse, repeat the same old tired bullshit.

I really, really hope this series is going to be two seasons long... because what we've been getting since Windermere openly declared war is basically the same shabby mess as the first twenty or so episodes of Macross 7. The protagonists boldly sally forth and accomplish absolutely nothing, while the enemy amuses itself with kicking the redshirts around with technologically superior aircraft. The problem with Delta is that, where Macross 7 had Diamond and Emerald Force to show the audience that the reason the Varauta Army hadn't already won the war was because they were facing stiff opposition rather than because they were getting bored and going home before sealing the deal. We don't have any of that assurance in Delta. Unless Delta Platoon and Walkure are involved, the fights only end two ways: when Windermere's Aerial Knights wipe out all opposition without taking any casualties of their own, or when they get bored and go home for reasons unclear. It doesn't give you the feeling that the New UN Forces are even in the fight... you're left with the impression that the only thing standing between Windermere and galactic domination is Heinz's rigidly enforced naptime or a bizarre compulsion to be home in time for tea. Delta Platoon and Walkure have certainly shown they can't hack it, so who's gonna save the universe now? Is Basara gonna come back, all withered-looking like Keith Richards or Mick Jagger, and sing us to victory with the classics? Seriously, I'd actually take that at this point... and as many of you know, I emphatically dislike Basara as a character. That's how frustrated I am with this series right now.

I'm afraid I have to offer up a negative vote... and will probably continue to do so until Windermere's one-sided curbstomp-a-thon comes to an end.

I don't mind so much the curb stomp, you can explain that away as a big tactical advantage of the Var. what I do mind is the fact that th Windermeres sent in six pilots who were all desperately holding their pee against a full task force, and won, the foldjammers may as well not have existed. That plus the fact how do they even know where the NUNS task force was.

My take is if a NUNS fleet has no Macross class, it is screwed. If this is really a problem, they should just send in a bunch of fully AIed, unshackled Ghots. Can't Var those.

Here is how I would have liked to see this play out. NUNS task force meets Windermere plus slaves squadron, fold jamming comes into play. NUNS beat up on Windermeres, the Aerial Knights notice the fold jammers. They go in and take those out. Windermere gets effect of ketchup boy singing and then they squash the NUNS task force. That is plausible on many levels.

The least of which is that now the Knights don't have to hold their pee all the way from Windermere.

You know they must have toilets in the Drakken like the SU-34

Edited July 10, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Supernova]

The problem I have with this show are all the excess characters and the needless scenes on them. Consider Kanam for example, development with the Messer arc and dropped right back to uselessness after her declaration to Mikumo that she was going to matter. Makes me wonder if there was a deleted scene with them in private where Mikumo put Kaname back in her place with a few choice words and a Mikumo slam.

I don't think you quite grasped the interaction between Kaname and Mikumo. While Kaname has always showed a cheerful exterior, episode 11 revealed to use that she never thought much of herself, and accepted being inferior to both Freyja and Mikumo. However after realizing how precious her song was to Messer, Kaname grew as a character and reach the pinnacle of her fold receptor value, like Freyja did in episode 8. This didn't mean that Kaname was going to suddenly become apart of the dual ace vocalist of Walkure, as her fold receptor level is lower than Freyja and Mikumo.

What this mean't for Kaname though was that she was no longer going to sing half heartedly, but always sing to the best of her ability, because their are people out there who appreciate her songs.

[RedWolf]

Interesting theory.

The VF-22 and Hayate's father is red herring. We saw a crashed Sv-154 of Keith with Roid helping him.

What if the footage was doctored instead of a VF-22 it was really a Sv-154 that launched an MDE at the NUNS base? Carlisle was collateral damage. The reason why the rescued guy hates Hayate's dad?

Raito Immelman could've stopped if he shot down Keith. As seen in the prequel manga Windermere isn't above using child soldiers. Raito has an affection for kids. He probably gave that player to Freyja. He couldn't shoot down Keith thus Carlisle went boom.

Keith has a Guld like memory suppression and starts blaming NUNS for it when the truth was it was him who did it.

[akt_m]

Kinda not feeling the NEW OP compared to the first.

Definitely not stepping up the stakes like Lion did for Frontier.

2

[Ghostbear0]

Interesting theory.

The VF-22 and Hayate's father is red herring. We saw a crashed Sv-154 of Keith with Roid helping him.

What if the footage was doctored instead of a VF-22 it was really a Sv-154 that launched an MDE at the NUNS base? Carlisle was collateral damage. The reason why the rescued guy hates Hayate's dad?

Raito Immelman could've stopped if he shot down Keith. As seen in the prequel manga Windermere isn't above using child soldiers. Raito has an affection for kids. He probably gave that player to Freyja. He couldn't shoot down Keith thus Carlisle went boom.

Keith has a Guld like memory suppression and starts blaming NUNS for it when the truth was it was him who did it.

I like it. I doubt it, but I like it.

[MisaForever]

As Azrael said in the last episode thread, the Windermere Knights need a good ass-whoopin'. I'm tired of seeing them wipe out ENTIRE FLEETS with just a few ships, and even in this episode Keith taking out a large chunk by himself. I try to feel for them but it just isn't happening. They want everyone else to suffer and surrender and feel as if they're entitled. /rantover

[azrael]

Interesting theory.

...

Raito Immelman could've stopped if he shot down Keith. As seen in the prequel manga Windermere isn't above using child soldiers. Raito has an affection for kids. He probably gave that player to Freyja. He couldn't shoot down Keith thus Carlisle went boom.

I don't see how Windermere can't use child soldiers. Most are likely eligible for military service before they hit their teens. If Frejya is suppose to be married at her age, then for sure Windermerans can enter military service at what humans would consider, childhood ages. If Raito couldn't shoot down children, it would be understandable because at the time, Hayate would have been 10 years old. Probably the same age Windermere children are eligible for military service.

[RedWolf]

Macross 7 VF-22S bombing run.

Alleged NUNS VF-22 bombing run.

Anybody else noticing the discrepancy of performance? Why drop when you can fire far away?

[eko.prasetiyo]

Macross 7 VF-22S bombing run.

Alleged NUNS VF-22 bombing run.

Ohys-Raws Macross Delta - 15 (MX 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_12.26_2016.07.11_09.18.24.jpg

Anybody else noticing the discrepancy of performance? Why drop when you can fire far away?

perhaps that vf22 pilot got mind controlled?