Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 14 - READ 1st POST

[Falconkpd]

I enjoyed it quite a bit, myself. No real complaints here. Honestly, I wouldn't be watching it if I didn't like it.

[RedWolf]

And who's to say PMCs haven't gotten cheaper in the eight years since Frontier? Apparently, there's lots of competition, and competition drives down prices. Also, it's possible Chaos isn't the best of the best... but at least they aren't getting their pilots from high schools...........

Those high school students has pilot training courses and is using civilian grade EX-Gear comparable to military ones.

Hayate wasn't even a pilot and Kaos had to spend money for him to get trained.

Indeed in Diamond Force's first sortie Kinryu comments the money spent on their training, food and suits.

Is it a wonder some governments are turning to Ghosts due to expenses on pilots?

[ManhattanProject972]

Those high school students has pilot training courses and is using civilian grade EX-Gear comparable to military ones.

Hayate wasn't even a pilot and Kaos had to spend money for him to get trained.

Indeed in Diamond Force's first sortie Kinryu comments the money spent on their training, food and suits.

Is it a wonder some governments are turning to Ghosts due to expenses on pilots?

Well when everybody and their mother can become a pilot makes you wonder how the government pays them all.

[azrael]

Friday night. Time for sit down viewing.

Since everyone has already addressed all the other points...I want Bogue to be shot down by Mirage now. Whiny little punk should be shot down by the worst Delta pilot, IMO. He complains about Keith being in a bed when Windermere hasn't really lost many pilots on-screen compared to NUNS and Chaos. Now that it's Keith v Haya-Haya, I want him to suffer at the hands of Mirage.

[OptionZero]

I'm extremely annoyed that they dropped the whole angle of "Lady M talked to some mining corporations nearby and got them to pay us to re-take the cluster"

That's got pretty significant ramifications: our heroes get $$$ for bullets and fuel, but they're beholden to new bosses. What happens when/if they succeed? Do the mining corps own Ragna/other planets?

All of that happened OFF SCREEN and was just a remark they bombed in at the end

I would have loved to have the Lady M introduction/backstory here, while showing her negotiating with the mining corps

They better not frickin leave her identity an unresolved mystery

[l3fty84]

I'm extremely annoyed that they dropped the whole angle of "Lady M talked to some mining corporations nearby and got them to pay us to re-take the cluster"

That's got pretty significant ramifications: our heroes get $$$ for bullets and fuel, but they're beholden to new bosses. What happens when/if they succeed? Do the mining corps own Ragna/other planets?

All of that happened OFF SCREEN and was just a remark they bombed in at the end

I would have loved to have the Lady M introduction/backstory here, while showing her negotiating with the mining corps

They better not frickin leave her identity an unresolved mystery

You sort of have to look at it from the corporate angle, they can't earn their money from mining if the sector is under the new establishment, so they are happily throwing money at the party that has the people eager to fight back and make it so they can go back to massive profit margins.

[squaresphere]

SMS did not even exist during M+, though it did hire Isamu later apparently. And I don't see why SMS would need to attack the Earth in Frontier times. The Earth becomes a part of the story only when the controlled Vajra appear over it in the series, but there is no battle.

You're looking at it from a story perspective, I'm talking about an abstract example of potential force they could muster against what we consider the biggest known military power we've seen.

On the aspect of SMS we did see the Macross Quarter crew abandon their contract when Leon took over in the TV series. It's one thing if SMS decided to officially terminate the contract, instead we saw them sneak away. From the public's view, SMS left them high and dry after the president died in a Vajara attack. Once aspect of this story that was never touched on was what Richard Bilrer did during this abadonment. Did he leave on the Quarter or on some other craft, did he hole up in his mansion. You know for sure he would have been brought in for questioning otherwise. This sequence is why the movie version full of SMS reinforcements doesn't make sense.

I know the scale is different, but that's sort of my point. Sheryl hired SMS personnel, Valkyries and the Macross Quarter for an operation to rescue Macross Galaxy. That's only one operation, but Sheryl is only one person as well. Yes, she's a mega-diva that probably has all the money, but I'm guessing (and this is a guess) that a mining conglomerate has more money than one person, even the most popular singer in a galaxy obsessed with singers.

So, if one rich person could hire SMS to do one operation, then its conceivable that a big corporation could hire a force large enough to pose a threat to Windermere's occupation force.

And who's to say PMCs haven't gotten cheaper in the eight years since Frontier? Apparently, there's lots of competition, and competition drives down prices. Also, it's possible Chaos isn't the best of the best... but at least they aren't getting their pilots from high schools...........

Hmm. Now I'm wondering if 'drifter' is a step up or step down from 'high school student'.

The point the on the mining corps is that sets up a dangerous precedence for PMCs. We have no idea if there's an rating/bonding commission for them or any recourse for employers to file grievances against PMC abuses or even vise versa.

Today's PMC might be tomorrows pirate fleet or personal space fiefdom. But yeah true enough lives are cheap and if PMC are cheaper due to competition there's bound to be an increase in conflicts.

[Raptor One]

That's got pretty significant ramifications: our heroes get $$$ for bullets and fuel, but they're beholden to new bosses. What happens when/if they succeed? Do the mining corps own Ragna/other planets?

No. They get to resume their profitable mining operations.

They better not frickin leave her identity an unresolved mystery

Not sure why you think they would ever do that

Edited July 9, 2016 by Raptor One

[This Confuses Gamlin]

That's got pretty significant ramifications: our heroes get $$$ for bullets and fuel, but they're beholden to new bosses.

According to the subs, Johnson states that their contract with the cluster government is still intact. It would be seen as a problem that the cluster government is not entirely intact (this reminds me rather much of several Hammer's Slammers plots), but it could be logically assumed or argued that at least one portion of the cluster's government is intact if at least some of Ragna's government took the sensible step of leaving aboard the Ragna Island Ship.

Johnson's description of the new arrangement doesn't explicitly state that the mining corporations are now their new employers, just that the corps are sponsoring them, and that their job is to reclaim the cluster. It would make sense that the cluster government would also support the idea of reclaiming the cluster.

Of course, some concessions may have been made, but if the mining corporations were already active in the cluster, their personnel and equipment would be lost to Windermere as well, so there's still a chance that it's a mutual benefit.

The point the on the mining corps is that sets up a dangerous precedence for PMCs. We have no idea if there's an rating/bonding commission for them or any recourse for employers to file grievances against PMC abuses or even vise versa.

Sidebar: I'm calling the depiction of the Ragna fleet's travels in the prologue "dramatic license" as it would be silly to send one fleet by itself way the hell out in a different direction than apparently all of the other fleets.

The vastness of the Macross realm works both ways; it would make sense for there to be a central authority that keeps tabs on all of the mercenary outfits operating out there, but it's a big galaxy and easy to disappear into. But on the other hand, unless an outlaw unit makes particular efforts to secure supplies, they'd have a rough time operating as rogues, since Fold communication seems to be good enough that they'd be shut out of support from most places within a few months or however long it takes alerts about them to propagate.

[OptionZero]

No. They get to resume their profitable mining operations.

Not sure why you think they would ever do that

Were the mining corps "already" in the cluster, or trying to elbow in? Did the subs make it clear?

And kawamori is not above not resolving stuff, like the Sheryl, alto and rink a triangle in Mac F tv series

[RedWolf]

The point the on the mining corps is that sets up a dangerous precedence for PMCs. We have no idea if there's an rating/bonding commission for them or any recourse for employers to file grievances against PMC abuses or even vise versa.

Today's PMC might be tomorrows pirate fleet or personal space fiefdom. But yeah true enough lives are cheap and if PMC are cheaper due to competition there's bound to be an increase in conflicts.

The only PMC that we know of that were a-holes was Critical Path Corporation and they were involved in the black market and Lactence. Their boss also has ties to Macross Galaxy conspiracy becoming an AI himself.

Macross 30 had the Hunter Guild where freelancers can get jobs from deliveries to security. Ganess was a Hunter that became a Bandit.

Were the mining corps "already" in the cluster, or trying to elbow in? Did the subs make it clear?

Probably interstellar corps like Bilrer's transport company. So corporate HQ is outside the cluster.

Hell old Richard Bilrer's business would probably be affected as his transport company is one of the biggest in the galaxy. The Brisingr cluster has the biggest civilian population in the galaxy that we know of. Makes you wonder if SMS will get a cameo as reinforcements.

Edited July 10, 2016 by RedWolf

[eko.prasetiyo]

does the SMS still exist in 2067? I thought they where disbanded and merge into NUNS?

[Seto Kaiba]

does the SMS still exist in 2067? I thought they where disbanded and merge into NUNS?

Yes, they still exist. Like Kaos, the SMS office in the Macross Frontier series was just one branch of a corporation with locations on many different worlds and fleets.

The branch office in the Macross Frontier fleet was temporarily drafted into the fleet's local New UN Spacy forces... but most of the staff legged it instead of complying, and may have regained their autonomy after the crisis was over.

In the movies, we see reinforcements from SMS branches in other fleets, and the Macross 30 game's protagonists belong to SMS branches in other star systems (Leon is originally from the Sephira branch office, Aisha runs the branch office on Uroboros).

[eko.prasetiyo]

well SMS is private military and Kaos is civilian contractor, when the conflict in the cluster escalated to full scale war, why those planet government didn't call for SMS if they think NUNS forces there are unable to deal with it.

is it because SMS is too expensive ?

will we ever see SMS making a cameo in MD?

I just hope to see dozens of macross quarter defold on final war

[Seto Kaiba]

well SMS is private military and Kaos is civilian contractor, when the conflict in the cluster escalated to full scale war, why those planet government didn't call for SMS if they think NUNS forces there are unable to deal with it.

is it because SMS is too expensive ?

Er... both SMS and Kaos are private (civilian) military contractors.

As such, both are also technically private armies given that they're military forces that owe their allegiance to a corporation rather than a nation.

Both are also [owned by / part of] interstellar conglomerates that started out in much more mundane fields... SMS's parent company is an interstellar shipping firm (Bilra Transport Co.), and Kaos's is an interstellar media corporation (name not known yet).

The SMS force attached to the Macross Frontier fleet just seems to have been bigger and more professional than Kaos, a difference that's not altogether surprising considering the Macross Frontier fleet's SMS branch office had a clandestine purpose of being an elite force for an all-but-inevitable conflict with the Vajra and therefore needed the very best soldiers money could hire... while Kaos was essentially a bodyguard detail for Walkure and a supplemental security force for the military out in a sleepy little globular cluster where the occasional Var outbreak was the only real threat until recently.

[Graham]

Damn, I hope Deadfish have not given up on Delta.

[azrael]

Damn, I hope Deadfish have not given up on Delta.

Graham, I would suggest using rebox.NET to re-encode MKVs to MP4.

[Product9]

What about proximity? How does that play into the whole SMS not being present in the Brisingr Cluster, at least presumably, thing?

Isn't Frontier nearer to the center of the galaxy whereas Ragna is way out on the edge?

[RedWolf]

What about proximity? How does that play into the whole SMS not being present in the Brisingr Cluster, at least presumably, thing?

Isn't Frontier nearer to the center of the galaxy whereas Ragna is way out on the edge?

SMS has branches across several fleets and planets. We know Macross 17 and 23 has branches with their own Quarters. Planet Sephira has its own branch in Macross 30. Sephira was first introduced in one of the missions of Macross VF-X2. While a frontier planet it was close and important enough that Earth to send special forces VF-X Ravens to deal with the Zentradi Anti-UN group Black Rainbow, which was operating on several planets. Planet Ourouboros has branch with Northampton class with a personnel of one... Aisha is close to Bilrer, pretty much a researcher on breaking Fold Faults and the Protoculture ruins do have Fold Quartz. We can see why Richard Bilrer was funding this one woman operation.

For all we know Kaos has the Brisingr Cluster as a captured market as they are contracted to the Brisingr Alliance. They have branches on several planets there.

Edited July 10, 2016 by RedWolf

[eko.prasetiyo]

What about proximity? How does that play into the whole SMS not being present in the Brisingr Cluster, at least presumably, thing?

Isn't Frontier nearer to the center of the galaxy whereas Ragna is way out on the edge?

at first episode of delta I thought kaos is the new name of SMS.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Damn, I hope Deadfish have not given up on Delta.

Their Ep. 14 was released within the last few hours.

[Scyla]

It was the expected calm episode after the last few action packed minutes. Odd docking maneuver by the Elysion though.

[Seto Kaiba]

What about proximity? How does that play into the whole SMS not being present in the Brisingr Cluster, at least presumably, thing?

Isn't Frontier nearer to the center of the galaxy whereas Ragna is way out on the edge?

All things considered, the Brisingr cluster seems to be the galactic boonies... as far from Earth and the New UN Government's most influential worlds as you can get while staying in the galaxy proper.

Strategic Military Services seems to be a fairly influential and expensive outfit to hire, considering the apparent quality of their troops and the amount of money they're depicted throwing around in Macross Frontier and Macross the Ride. As such, I'd assume that SMS would be found mainly on worlds and in fleets that are relatively wealthy, well-established, and have strong corporate support and trade ties. Their presence very likely goes hand-in-hand with Bilra Transport controlling a fair amount of that fleet's or planet's interstellar shipping.

Kaos's contract with the Brisingr Alliance suggests that it does a lot of its business out in the sticks, on relatively provincial worlds. Apart from the head office on Ragna, it seems to be extremely lightly armed.

SMS has branches across several fleets and planets. We know Macross 17 and 23 has branches with their own Quarters. Planet Sephira has its own branch in Macross 30. Sephira was first introduced in one of the missions of Macross VF-X2. While a frontier planet it was close and important enough that Earth to send special forces VF-X Ravens to deal with the Zentradi Anti-UN group Black Rainbow, which was operating on several planets. Planet Ourouboros has branch with Northampton class with a personnel of one... Aisha is close to Bilrer, pretty much a researcher on breaking Fold Faults and the Protoculture ruins do have Fold Quartz. We can see why Richard Bilrer was funding this one woman operation.

For all we know Kaos has the Brisingr Cluster as a captured market as they are contracted to the Brisingr Alliance. They have branches on several planets there.

Just a very slight correction... the Uroboros SMS branch did have more personnel (not many), though the Gefion was basically left with just Aisha after her original test pilot ended up in the hospital due to a testing accident with the YF-30. The YF-30 development program had a lot more support, including that of the Uroboros factory satellite. (With the Hunter's Guild handling most of the nuisance work and the local NUNS handling the big stuff, SMS's presence could get away with being token.