Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 12 - READ 1st POST

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Elysion details:

In cruiser mode, there's a flight deck section from the legs that lines up with the arms. Not that they really need the entire "runway" to take off in space. But it possibly increases the number of available catapults and thus the launch tempo. It might make it easier to do simultaneous launch and recovery, but that's a lot of small craft flying along the same vector.

And since I ended up on top of a page, here's a picture of Brera's VF-27 with the NUNS insignia clearly visible:

Edited June 19, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[NightmarePlus]

Messer is still in the opening.

Hmmm, this is so strange, if this is how they are taking over NUNS, there should be a large contingent of NUNS ships under control of Windermere by now, unless there isn't much of a fleet at the rest of the planets conquered so far. Where are the Vajra when you need them? Would be a good time to remove a fold fault barrier.

Actually, I felt just a little robbed by this episode. We start off with a barrage, and then it became like a DBZ episode of power ups. And just as Elysion enter the battle field (alone???? where the hell are all of the ships on that came in at Ragna? The Windermeres run away.. Ernest ol' buddy, no time for a good old itano circus as you are passing by the old geezer?

^ This. Unless Ernest is keeping them on Ragna in case Gramia pulled the crap he did.

Edited June 19, 2016 by NightmarePlus

[This Confuses Gamlin]

^ This. Unless Ernest is keeping them on Ragna in case Gramia pulled the crap he did.

But the problem is that their only counter to Heinz Varifying everyone on Ragna is Walküre, and Walküre is with the Elysion, unless there was scene missing between the ship lifting off and Folding out.

[Seto Kaiba]

^ This. Unless Ernest is keeping them on Ragna in case Gramia pulled the crap he did.

But the problem is that their only counter to Heinz Varifying everyone on Ragna is Walküre, and Walküre is with the Elysion, unless there was scene missing between the ship lifting off and Folding out.

So... if Ernest did leave the rest of Kaos's Brisingr cluster assets in orbit of Ragna and took only the Elysion to Al Shahal, he just practically handed the last New UN Spacy fleet and Kaos's sector fleet to Windermere.

With enemies like that, King Gramia and Windermere don't need allies... our heroes are holding an idiot ball so vast light cannot escape its surface.

Also, there's some real problematic stuff when you realize that as a New UN Spacy planetary garrison, the weasel-faced officer who explained the plan to destroy Ragna's Protoculture ruins with a reaction warhead was relaying a plan that the autonomous government of Ragna had approved of. The NUNS can't deploy reaction weapons without the approval and authorization of the government. Lady M somehow arm-twisted Ragna's government into backing down from taking the precautionary measures it'd planned to safeguard its population and may shortly be responsible for the fall of Ragna, the Brisingr cluster, and the enslavement of eight billion people. I'm kind of left wondering if we really ought to have it end in the same way as Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, where the protagonists screwed up so bad they were jailed or shot, and exonerated after the fact because of a government coverup.

[kalvasflam]

So... if Ernest did leave the rest of Kaos's Brisingr cluster assets in orbit of Ragna and took only the Elysion to Al Shahal, he just practically handed the last New UN Spacy fleet and Kaos's sector fleet to Windermere.

With enemies like that, King Gramia and Windermere don't need allies... our heroes are holding an idiot ball so vast light cannot escape its surface.

Also, there's some real problematic stuff when you realize that as a New UN Spacy planetary garrison, the weasel-faced officer who explained the plan to destroy Ragna's Protoculture ruins with a reaction warhead was relaying a plan that the autonomous government of Ragna had approved of. The NUNS can't deploy reaction weapons without the approval and authorization of the government. Lady M somehow arm-twisted Ragna's government into backing down from taking the precautionary measures it'd planned to safeguard its population and may shortly be responsible for the fall of Ragna, the Brisingr cluster, and the enslavement of eight billion people. I'm kind of left wondering if we really ought to have it end in the same way as Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, where the protagonists screwed up so bad they were jailed or shot, and exonerated after the fact because of a government coverup.

I hate to say this, but the gaps in the show are actually growing larger as we go on, I thik we have had some pretty valid complaints so far including:

- why the battle stopped immediately after Keith took out Messer.

Right now, the holes are becoming larger and more evident. If you think about it, Bogue is a very rational strategist in his actions. Kill the Walkure, and he can ensure the success of Windermere. Keith on the other hand, is a moron, he puts on a facade of disobeying Roid, but never thinks about killing the enemy that is most important in this conflict. That thought in and of itself is sad.

The counterattack at Al Shahal also makes no sense for all the reason that has already been put up. I am going to just hope that somewhere along the line, there is some type of unifying theme that explains the uncharacteristically poor judgement of these senior people.

By the way, one thing I do miss from this episode is the songs, can't say when that happened, but the Walkure songs are pretty catchy, definitely different from Frontier, but I like it. The songs that I like least in Macross D are the opening and closing right now. The best one for me is still Ikenai Borderline, to me, that is the itezagogokuji of Macross D, high tempo, and high energy. And best of all, there is NO F'ing AIMO.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Subs have been out for about an hour now.

Need a dialogue confirmation on whether Ernest is said to have won or lost 100 battles, the subs went with "lost".

Edited June 20, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[NightmarePlus]

HE DID LEAVE THE REST OF CHAOS AT RAGNA TO ACT AS DEFENSE. I KNEW IT

[azrael]

OK, am I the only one getting really sick of Windermere winning every fight they start offscreen and apparently without any significant resistance?

The first time it happened, it was impressive and threatening...

'Been saying it for a while now.

Quick-viewin.

So the "Bring out the bigger guns"-episode and Windermere runs. As I've been saying for weeks now, if this show goes on longer, then Windermere needs to suffer a setback. It has to hurt or it won't have any significance.

BTW, with the Windermere fleet over at Al Shalal, why not do a counter attack on Windermere? Defold outside the fault, move in through normal space and nuke 'em?

But yeah, Windermere needs to suffer a "L".

[RedWolf]

Well that is something. Mikumo knows how Heinz feels using the Shrine of Time and it is not observations made of his previous performances. She recognizes the Sigur Valens. This raises all sorts of flags.

Dare I say it Mikumo could be the only other known Protoculture alive besides Mina Forte.

Mikumo could be at most a Shrine Maiden like Sara Nome or she could be Anima Spiritia. She probably has gaps in her memory like Mina did. Mina Forte was the system administrator of Ouroboros ruins. Mikumo could serve a similar function.

Ernest was a merc hired as an instructor by the Windermere government. Gramia was a bad student who keeps talking about knights ignoring modern warfare. Insists on duel and not fleet commander material. Gramia would rather not face Ernest head on as he knows he is formidable. So skips him going for a beeline on Ragna at the very last moment.

Oh I don't know if Mirage realizes it yet but wanting a rematch is how Milia ended up marrying her grandpa.

It's like declaration of war to Freyja.

It's Hayate's fault he is a natural player. He made both hearts skip a beat. He loving Freyja's songs and will protect her, and telling Mirage to rely him.... along Chuck and Arad. Mirage is irked with that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RedWolf

[MisaForever]

Not a spoiler...

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that Kawamori has started to get too deep with the plots of his Macross series'? It's like... here I am thinking I understand what's going on and then all of a sudden there are all these new, smaller mysteries and questions.

Granted I'm loving the show but there is such a thing as "TOO MANY PLOTS"

[SebastianP]

Johnson's plan...

...made sense based on the intel he had. The Wind Singer has never sung twice on the same day, suggesting that he needs a lot of rest in between. Mikumo says this as well, "I know best of all people" regarding what singing takes out of you. So to the best of the available knowledge, Windermere is going to be stuck consolidating for at least a day, with their primary weapon - and defense - off line.

Going in with only the Elysion also makes sense, in that if the Wind Singer does manage to recover enough to start singing during the attack, the crew of the Elysion is about as immune to VAR as it is possible to get at this point, and the rest of Khaos isn't. Bringing the Khaos fleet with them is asking to get shot in the back when they start to VAR out.

So Johnson takes his heaviest, most capable and least vulnerable unit to go for a decapitation strike against an enemy that by all rights should have their pants around their ankles, while leaving the second-stringers to hold the fort in case Windermere tries their *usual* tactic of sending in the Aerial knights while they're in transit.

Except a: Heinz is already recovered, or so he says; and b: Gramia can feel them entering Fold Space, and has the fleet ready to fold to Ragna just as the Elysion folds out. How the hell was Johnson supposed to know about either of those things, when everyone who would know was telling him a was impossible and b was completely out of nowhere?

The NUNS backup plan...

Did everyone miss where the protoculture ruins have a major energy shaft that goes into the mantle of the planet? Or that Kaname outright says that blowing them up could cause upheaval in the planet's crust? Or that weasel-face says he didn't need to ask for permission, he'd already ordered the weapons deployed? There's nothing in there about having the local government's permission, he's Central Spacy and his orders come from Earth, and they've decided that the ruins need to be blown up. Never mind that setting off a reaction warhead underwater on a planet that is mostly ocean and where all the fauna is aquatic, and in a place where it might set off massive earthquakes to boot, doesn't sound at all like a well thought out idea.

[kalvasflam]

I am not sure about too many plots, but definitely a lot of plot holes. I am just waiting for the next episode now, but this Windermere attack on the cluster is a joke. Because it is so outmatched that the only reason it is still alive is because the protagonist seem so incompetent or they have their hands tied behind their backs.

It wasn't as if the Macross Elysion couldn't take off until today. It could have just gone directly to Windermere and have it done with. I don't mind conspiracy pots, but at some point I would like just a straight out slugfest. Isn't that the whole point of Macross after all. Giant robot blowing each other up to the tune of the best idols in the galaxy.

Edited June 20, 2016 by kalvasflam

[SebastianP]

snip

Spoiler protection period is still not up. Tag your stuff, please.

But it *was* that the Elysion couldn't take off until today.

The Elysion is under contract to protect Ragna, and to provide VAR inoculation services throughout the cluster. The Elysion is only one ship - if it leaves, Ragna is not protected, and they're in breach of contract. With me so far?

In order for it to take off, it needs two things - something to take its place defending Ragna, and a decent target that's worth the expense of calling in the reinforcements to hold the fort while it sorties.

Windermere itself is not a decent target - it has been said several times in the series that Windermere is protected under a bunch of fold faults, and it's dangerous to even approach. I assume the freighters either have a native pilot (as in the nautical term) to guide them through the fold faults, or there are known approaches that are covered in space forts. Either way, they can't *get* to Windermere.

Having the Elysion in orbit during any of their previous missions wouldn't have done any good - the one time there were enemy warships around, they were on a stealth mission and blowing the ships up would have ruined it. Most of the time, the only thing they run into is enemy fighters, and for that their own fighters are enough.

The Sigur Valens *is* a good target - especially as it has both the Wind Singer and King Gramia, previously protected behind the fold faults around Windermere, aboard. And it only appeared that same day, luckily the same one where the reinforcements arrived so they could go after it, as opposed to getting the planet possibly blown up from under them to "protect" it.

Why is the war going so badly? It's *not* due to incompetence on the side of the good guys. The good guys have limited resources, and they're making use of them as best they can. It is not their fault that the enemy has an impenetrable fortress for a homeworld, outnumber them badly to start with and can yoink any mooks sent their way, have a Protoculture artifact ship that can no-sell a massed bombardment from a 40-ship fleet, that their "yoink!" button has half the recharge time they've been advertising, and best of all, that their king is either clairvoyant or precognitive. Oh, and the fighter pilots the protagonists keep getting tangled up with are physically superior to them and have only not killed them because the first four or five times they met, they were recalled due to the objectives being met before any kills were scored.

[kalvasflam]

Oops. my bad, sorry about that. Thanks.

[Einherjar]

Operation Einherjar

That hypocrite old man of a king needs to f****** die!

Edited June 20, 2016 by Einherjar

[Alberich]

Elysion details:

In cruiser mode, there's a flight deck section from the legs that lines up with the arms. Not that they really need the entire "runway" to take off in space. But it possibly increases the number of available catapults and thus the launch tempo. It might make it easier to do simultaneous launch and recovery, but that's a lot of small craft flying along the same vector.

And since I ended up on top of a page, here's a picture of Brera's VF-27 with the NUNS insignia clearly visible:

Yeah good point I only remembered the Galaxy logo in the 27 XD, still a new repaint and better shoulder joints are welcome

[Rock]

I'm curious who the woman and male that were at the mission debreifing are.

[UN Spacy]

Subs are already out...wow that was fast.

[Seto Kaiba]

The NUNS backup plan...

Did everyone miss where the protoculture ruins have a major energy shaft that goes into the mantle of the planet? Or that Kaname outright says that blowing them up could cause upheaval in the planet's crust? Or that weasel-face says he didn't need to ask for permission, he'd already ordered the weapons deployed? There's nothing in there about having the local government's permission, he's Central Spacy and his orders come from Earth, and they've decided that the ruins need to be blown up. Never mind that setting off a reaction warhead underwater on a planet that is mostly ocean and where all the fauna is aquatic, and in a place where it might set off massive earthquakes to boot, doesn't sound at all like a well thought out idea.

You've missed a few details that poke holes in your objection.

First, weasel-face and his colleagues in the federal New UN Forces take orders from the New UN Government... which, in case you forgot, has Ragna as one of its member worlds. It's pretty much a given that the elected/appointed representatives Ragna has in the New UN Government consented to the operation, especially since governmental authorization is legally required for the deployment of reaction ordinance.

Second, Kaname's assertion is that destroying the energy shafts (not the ruins) might cause severe tectonic disturbances. That's an untested theory from a layman, and it should be noted the federal NUNS said they're planning to destroy the ruins, not the energy shafts.

Third, weasel-face actually points out that they've chosen the course of action that will achieve the desired result and thwart Windermere's ambitions with the minimum possible amount of collateral damage to the planet. Using a thermonuclear reaction warhead won't produce any disruptions in the fabric of space-time like a dimension eater did on Windermere, it won't produce any fold effects that could interact with those ruins, and it won't contaminate the sea with radioactive byproducts because reaction warheads are fundamentally clean weapons.

Fourth, when weasel-face says they don't need permission... he says they don't need Captain Ernest Johnson's permission. Why would they? The New UN Forces, federal or regional, answer to the government. Captain Ernest Johnson isn't a soldier. Nor, for that matter, is he a government official. He's a mercenary, and not even a very good one considering he's been outmaneuvered at every turn by his own admittedly terrible student and his pack of weekend warriors have screwed the pooch at every turn to the worrying extent that the Ragna SPCA is probably looking into the welfare of a strictly metaphorical dog!

Fifth, when weasel-face asks Captain Johnson, Major Arad, and Kaname if they have any better ideas... they're conspicuously silent. Captain Johnson's rejoinder is basically "you're right, but I'm objecting anyway on principle".

Everybody, let's give a great big salute to Major Laurie "Weasel-Face" Valan of the New UN Spacy federal forces staff section two... the only remotely competent soldier in this entire bloody show.

[Zinjo]

Spoiler protection period is still not up. Tag your stuff, please.

But it *was* that the Elysion couldn't take off until today.

The Elysion is under contract to protect Ragna, and to provide VAR inoculation services throughout the cluster. The Elysion is only one ship - if it leaves, Ragna is not protected, and they're in breach of contract. With me so far?

In order for it to take off, it needs two things - something to take its place defending Ragna, and a decent target that's worth the expense of calling in the reinforcements to hold the fort while it sorties.

Windermere itself is not a decent target - it has been said several times in the series that Windermere is protected under a bunch of fold faults, and it's dangerous to even approach. I assume the freighters either have a native pilot (as in the nautical term) to guide them through the fold faults, or there are known approaches that are covered in space forts. Either way, they can't *get* to Windermere.

Having the Elysion in orbit during any of their previous missions wouldn't have done any good - the one time there were enemy warships around, they were on a stealth mission and blowing the ships up would have ruined it. Most of the time, the only thing they run into is enemy fighters, and for that their own fighters are enough.

The Sigur Valens *is* a good target - especially as it has both the Wind Singer and King Gramia, previously protected behind the fold faults around Windermere, aboard. And it only appeared that same day, luckily the same one where the reinforcements arrived so they could go after it, as opposed to getting the planet possibly blown up from under them to "protect" it.

Why is the war going so badly? It's *not* due to incompetence on the side of the good guys. The good guys have limited resources, and they're making use of them as best they can. It is not their fault that the enemy has an impenetrable fortress for a homeworld, outnumber them badly to start with and can yoink any mooks sent their way, have a Protoculture artifact ship that can no-sell a massed bombardment from a 40-ship fleet, that their "yoink!" button has half the recharge time they've been advertising, and best of all, that their king is either clairvoyant or precognitive. Oh, and the fighter pilots the protagonists keep getting tangled up with are physically superior to them and have only not killed them because the first four or five times they met, they were recalled due to the objectives being met before any kills were scored.

Agreed. Some folks need to stop watching so linearly.

There are also politics in this series and nothing moves in a straight line in politics! What I am surprised about or perhaps it has not yet been revealed is the absence of a NUNS task force to deal with this threat. Perhaps they are en-route (it does take time, even with fold quartz). Perhaps, as with most political decisions, the choice to blow up the ruins instead of sending physical assets was the preferred "half measure" most governments go for before the reality of a situation craps on their heads... As it stands, Chaos is out numbered now as there is no bullet that can stop a mind control device that travels on fold waves, surrounded by an ancient (now operational) PC capital ship. The fold song "booster" (for want of an official term) may have been a defensive measure added before the end of the PD war. The Anima Spiritia soldier would use it in the ship's defense if needed and the "Wind Singer" is the name the Windermereans gave to an Anima Spiritia singer.

The Sigur Valens looks to me like an emigration ship from the post PC Republic era. One of the ones that settled in the boonies hoping to avoid any Zentradi encounters like the core worlds were seeing at the time. Though a fold fault shield is new to the universe. The line ships of UNS and NUNS had barrier systems and we can surmise that this was something the PC had as well, but a fold fault shield that is tactile enough to stop incoming fire is very advanced stuff, not to mention a super dimension fold reactor core, which leads me to believe it is definitely post PD war tech. How much fire power she is packing is going to be interesting. I expect it to be more defensive compared to offensive. Though it is curious that it has a brick and mortar "shrine" in its bowels where Heinz can project his fold song from...

Mikumo would know about Heinz's need for rest because she is often missing after a battle. Most likely resting herself after her own strain. I have to agree that she is likely an anima spritia or of the shrine priestess lineage. I would be disappointed if she were an amnesiac PC.

Hayate's fold quartz came from his estranged father, who I suspect was a NUNS soldier in the Frontier fleet or one that was stationed on Vajra shortly after the Frontier landed.

Roid is going through an interesting character arc and I can see him defecting to Chaos, but the question will be what will send him over the edge?

The old king is a crafty devil though. He sensed Johnson's arrival and had his fleet fold past him, likely to Laguna where the skeleton fleet was holding the fort. I was almost expecting him to send his ships through the fold portal the Elysion opened. Considering what the SV was able to do with a larger fleet, the Chaos fleet of frigates won't be much of a challenge for the Windermereans without a Macross cap ship in the system.

The Elysion is officially a Macross warship (is she still an SDF or is she an SDB: Super Dimension Battleship, or something else?), the big question remains, where is she hiding her Quantum Cannon??

Edited June 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

The old king is a crafty devil though. He sensed Johnson's arrival and had his fleet fold past him, likely to Laguna where the skeleton fleet was holding the fort. I was almost expecting him to send his ships through the fold portal the Elysion opened. Considering what the SV was able to do with a larger fleet, the Chaos fleet of frigates won't be much of a challenge for the Windermereans without a Macross cap ship in the system.

The Elysion is officially a Macross warship (is she still an SDF or is she an SDB: Super Dimension Battleship, or something else?), the big question remains, where is she hiding her Quantum Cannon??

Actually NUN and Windermere Fold-Defold effects are different. NUN ships use the same ones as Frontier portal effect. Windermere folding involves a bluish black portal.

[cwmodels]

Not a spoiler...

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that Kawamori has started to get too deep with the plots of his Macross series'? It's like... here I am thinking I understand what's going on and then all of a sudden there are all these new, smaller mysteries and questions.

Granted I'm loving the show but there is such a thing as "TOO MANY PLOTS"

My reply here is not a spoiler either so hope it'll be okay...

Given the number of characters on this show there is nothing wrong with multiple plots. The problems comes from having too many unanswered questions, and they are stacking up fast and we are about half way into the series so far.

•What are the actual power of Windermerans?

•What do they really mean when they say "Wind"?

•What really happened to Windermere's planet?

•What is the Windermeran's ultimate goal?

•Why do some people fall for Var Sndrome and some not?

•When we saw Messer was able to control his Var, will that lead to anything?

•Will the protoculture ruins lead to anything?

•Who is Lady M?

•Who is Mikumo?

•What is the signifiance of that necklace on Hyate?

•What is Freyja's back story?

I'd like to have some definitive answers before the show keeps moving forward. It's like many have mentioned that there are huge gaps in plots and logic right now. And it's kinda frustrating just hoping there will be reasonable explainations to everything when it's all said and done in the end.

Edited June 20, 2016 by cwmodels

[zaino]

the transformation, and the music

nerd chills man

[RedWolf]

Know what I'd be amazed if Chuck manages to finally get a girlfriend and it is that hot green haired pilot.

[Saruta]

Neutral. I really really liked the animation. I am not sure about the plot.

I am generally in agreement with others that there seem to be holes in the plot.

Among other things, they did arrange for protection of Ragna in general, so they did think there could be an attack on the planet. But somehow they did NOT arrange for protection from a Var-based attack which is really what counts. I think they should have left a singer behind. Probably Kaname would have been a balanced choice - others are two tactical couples, Freyja-Mikumo and Makina-Reina resonate in battle, and absence of Kaname would have left their power in a strike force intact while providing a degree of defence if Ragna is attacked.

They will now have to race back against time and it's all the fault of the commanders.

On the music front - not sure if this counts as a spoiler - "by the book" development continues - this time, they put the singers on the back burner for once and showed that they can do classical-style background music a la SDFM, perfectly suitable for the video sequence. I t seems to me that their new music team got to read all the music criticism the franchise got in the past. They have responded to criticism of M7 for repeating really good songs too much - and now to my own past pet whine, criticism of Frontier (especially movies) for lack of music diversity.

They might not have the sheer power of Kanno or Fukuyama, but they are showing their work, and it's good work, too. So are the singers. I'm still impressed by JUNNA's English and by JUNNA in general, but now all five had their shining moments and the ensemble started to appear - the acapella in ep11 is something I really hope will be out on an OST soon.

[grigolosi]

You've missed a few details that poke holes in your objection.

First, weasel-face and his colleagues in the federal New UN Forces take orders from the New UN Government... which, in case you forgot, has Ragna as one of its member worlds. It's pretty much a given that the elected/appointed representatives Ragna has in the New UN Government consented to the operation, especially since governmental authorization is legally required for the deployment of reaction ordinance.

Second, Kaname's assertion is that destroying the energy shafts (not the ruins) might cause severe tectonic disturbances. That's an untested theory from a layman, and it should be noted the federal NUNS said they're planning to destroy the ruins, not the energy shafts.

Third, weasel-face actually points out that they've chosen the course of action that will achieve the desired result and thwart Windermere's ambitions with the minimum possible amount of collateral damage to the planet. Using a thermonuclear reaction warhead won't produce any disruptions in the fabric of space-time like a dimension eater did on Windermere, it won't produce any fold effects that could interact with those ruins, and it won't contaminate the sea with radioactive byproducts because reaction warheads are fundamentally clean weapons.

Fourth, when weasel-face says they don't need permission... he says they don't need Captain Ernest Johnson's permission. Why would they? The New UN Forces, federal or regional, answer to the government. Captain Ernest Johnson isn't a soldier. Nor, for that matter, is he a government official. He's a mercenary, and not even a very good one considering he's been outmaneuvered at every turn by his own admittedly terrible student and his pack of weekend warriors have screwed the pooch at every turn to the worrying extent that the Ragna SPCA is probably looking into the welfare of a strictly metaphorical dog!

Fifth, when weasel-face asks Captain Johnson, Major Arad, and Kaname if they have any better ideas... they're conspicuously silent. Captain Johnson's rejoinder is basically "you're right, but I'm objecting anyway on principle".

Everybody, let's give a great big salute to Major Laurie "Weasel-Face" Valan of the New UN Spacy federal forces staff section two... the only remotely competent soldier in this entire bloody show.

If I may add. Mr. Weasel Face did say it was a Tactical Reaction Warhead. If their use of this coincides with the our use of Tactical Nuke then this warhead would be a much smaller warhead and only affect a smaller area as compared to a full sized warhead used against a fleet or ship. I believe like Seto said they are strictly trying to destroy the ruins themselves. In essence take out the "antennae" of this multi planet PC device.

Edited June 20, 2016 by grigolosi

[NightmarePlus]

Know what I'd be amazed if Chuck manages to finally get a girlfriend and it is that hot green haired pilot.

Hopefully she doesn't get Var'd.

[MisaForever]

Should I add her to my WAIFULIST? http://i.imgur.com/a6Amttb.png

Edited June 20, 2016 by MisaForever

[squaresphere]

So my two thoughts on this ep. I actually liked it quite a bit. I'm in the camp that thought the plan to attack the Windemre fleet was sound based on the information they had. Our heroes have no idea about the improvements in "song" technology Epsilon has provided.

The fact they got out maneuvered is no one's fault. The King just had a better handle on Chaos' tactical capabilities and what his former mentor might do given "out dated" information.

That being said I do agree that they should have left some singers at Ragna as backup just in case the strike failed. Given we don't have exactly fold power numbers on each singer, the story alludes to Freya and Mikumo making up the bulk of the power. So for the purposes of a surgical strike just having those too might have been sufficient.

Also, the NUNS plan to take out the ruins is solid based on the minimal information they have. The only real "drawback" is the fact they don't have concrete evidence on what would happen if the ruins were destroyed. Lady M only got NUNS to delay the plan, not scrap it completely. Hopefully, the surprisingly competent NUNs officer is smart enough to detonate the ruins as soon as they're alerted there's a Windimere fold in.

Frosting of the ep were hawt older green haired pilot and the Macross launch sequence.

The progression of the love triangle is pretty awesome. It feels natural and not contrived. Just my own speculation but I bet Hiyate's dad was a pilot in the Macross Galaxy fleet. As far as we know they were working on fold crystal tech before everyone else.

Edited June 20, 2016 by squaresphere

[Zinjo]

So my two thoughts on this ep. I actually liked it quite a bit. I'm in the camp that thought the plan to attack the Windemre fleet was sound based on the information they had. Our heroes have no idea about the improvements in "song" technology Epsilon has provided.

The fact they got out maneuvered is no one's fault. The King just had a better handle on Chaos' tactical capabilities and what his former mentor might do given "out dated" information.

That being said I do agree that they should have left some singers at Ragna as backup just in case the strike failed. Given we don't have exactly fold power numbers on each singer, the story alludes to Freya and Mikumo making up the bulk of the power. So for the purposes of a surgical strike just having those too might have been sufficient.

Also, the NUNS plan to take out the ruins is solid based on the minimal information they have. The only real "drawback" is the fact they don't have concrete evidence on what would happen if the ruins were destroyed. Lady M only got NUNS to delay the plan, not scrap it completely. Hopefully, the surprisingly competent NUNs officer is smart enough to detonate the ruins as soon as they're alerted there's a Windimere fold in.

The progression of the love triangle is pretty awesome. It feels natural and not contrived. Just my own speculation but I bet Hiyate's dad was a pilot in the Macross Galaxy fleet. As far as we know they were working on fold crystal tech before everyone else.

Yep.

If anything, Johnson may be blamed for poor judgement on this operation, in both leaving the planet without more intel and not leaving at least one Walkure to defend Ragna.

I would expect NUNS will detonate the warhead when they see the SV and her fleet defold and the geological consequences will be worse than Kaname proposed.

Now if what Seto suspects, regarding the actual purpose of the "antennas", is true and the NUNS destroys the Ragnar PC ruin, things will change for both sides in a profound way. If a full blown Var outbreak occurs in the cluster as a result of the attack on Ragnar, the situation will get very bad, very quickly for both sides.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Yep.

If anything, Johnson may be blamed for poor judgement on this operation, in both leaving the planet without more intel and not leaving at least one Walkure to defend Ragna.

I would expect NUNS will detonate the warhead when they see the SV and her fleet defold and the geological consequences will be worse than Kaname proposed.

Now if what Seto suspects, regarding the actual purpose of the "antennas", is true and the NUNS destroys the Ragnar PC ruin, things will change for both sides in a profound way. If a full blown Var outbreak occurs in the cluster as a result of the attack on Ragnar, the situation will get very bad, very quickly for both sides.

The way Lady M's handling of things has shaped up so far, I'm betting they never get a chance to detonate the bomb because they fall victim to the song of the wind first... and then things go from bad to worse when Walkure and Heinz end up in another sing-off over possession of the ruins. Like what happened on Al Shahal when Messer died, but worse.

[Marzan]

24 hours gone so I'm typing without spoiler tags. Hope it's ok.

Rewatched the episode with subs and was disappointed to confirm that Ernest Johnson's physical stature is inversely proportional to his talents as a soldier. They're going to have to heavily rely on Walkure if they are going to make any kind of dent on the Windermere forces.

Speaking of which, I know the weasel faced officer was meant to be someone we disliked, but like Seto said above, he seemed like the only remotely capable officer in the system. I'm kind of looking forward to the angry/frustrated expressions of the Knights when and if they take out the ruins with reaction weaponry. It's weird because it's supposed to be Macross and my inner hippie is meant to find that kind of thing revolting, but I desperately crave a Windermere loss at this point.

Mirage's stare at Freyja there was pretty telling.

[Zinjo]

Windermerean wins at this point strikes me as more of an allegory on unchecked aggression.

Historically speaking, unchecked aggression often requires greater resources and much more destruction to stop after it has taken a foothold. This may be a similar situation.

Germany annexed or took over 7 neighbouring territories in the decade prior to WW2 and the world did nothing. The Nazi's were clearly aggressive, but the world governments "hoped" it would end when they got the germanic regions, but it didn't. They didn't act until Poland was invaded and by then the Nazi military machine was nearly too powerful.

Chaos is a Mercenary group with limited regional resources and a specific mission. They are not really equipped or positioned for this type of war.

They are a reactionary force trained and deployed to react to Var outbreaks. Expecting them to act with all the resources and depth of a military force, be they NUNS or even the SMS is asking for more than their mandate and what they are equipped to do.

Sure it is frustrating to see the enemy get so many wins and I would expect Johnson is also feeling that same frustration, but he can't let his crew know that or even express it publicly. Perhaps the gambit to take on the SV was an act of frustration, we don't exactly know yet.

Even if his strategy was to split the Elysion into 3 ships, his tactics against an unknown, clearly technologically advanced target would appear to be almost an act of desperation than having a tenable tactical advantage.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[kalvasflam]

Somehow a sing off between a kid and 5 adults(?) seem a bit odd. I just have a picture of Chris Pratt in GoG saying: "dance off"

[tout-puissant]

Should I add her to my WAIFULIST? http://i.imgur.com/a6Amttb.png

Veffidas' daughter. The drummer got married to Bobby. Calling it.