Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 11 - READ 1st POST

[Solidus Snake]

Delta as a show just keeps growing for me, and this episode highlights why. It's always great to see any episode where characters can sit back and

soak in the death of a character.

One thing that I do wish this episode would have done was give more lines and colour to Mirage. Right now she's a cardboard box, but oh well, I guess that will have to wait.

[Einherjar]

Not even Roy got a proper send off like Messer. Now what kind of reinforcements can Lady M find that can go toe to toe with what Windemere has right now?

Hayate has some big shoes to fill with those words of his. I was like "yeah... right... get your own act right 1st"

For a Macross protagonist, so far he's had a very surprising track record of not totally destroying his Valks. The slightly used 171 from the beginning is probably the only one. He must be doing something right if his first Siegfried can withstand him not using the A.I safeties and joyrides. Strangely, it's mostly been been clipped wings and arm damage from overloading his pinpoint barriers.

.

[RedWolf]

Interesting fact. The Brisingr globular cluster has 8 billion inhabitants. Gramia intends to enslave them all and genocide the Earthers. Most of those are likely Voldoran, Ragnan and Windermerean but he intends to kill all those who oppose him.

Gramia is pretty much the instigator of the independence war and this war. Why? He is driven by pride and a lust for misplaced vengeance.

He is doing an immediate attack as he doesn't trust Heinz wont be swayed by Walkure. He is aware of Earther's feats of pacifying the Zentradi , Protodevlin and Vajra.

Roid believes Windermereans are the true successors of the Protoculture and Heinz is to be the King of all Protoculture races. Arrogance on his part. Keith gives him a flaw in his reasoning as Winderereans were given a short life.

Roid please if there is to be a king of the Protoculture due to being a wind singer it should go to Basara. All races in the galaxy at the moment are Sub-Protoculture if the Protoculture found out all the crap your race is doing they'd send the Bird Human to wipe you out. Oh the only known possible Protoculture around is an idol named Mina Forte and she has mostly amnesia.

Given the gravity of the threat Earth couldn't treat this as a local problem anymore as 8 billion people are at risk. Earthers are still recovering their population numbers. The only ones with those numbers are Zentradi main fleets.

Al Shahal has at least 40 counted ships in orbit. Windermere fleet don't have those numbers going by defold signatures but make up for it with the Sigur Valens. An ancient Protoculture warship. Given the unknown quantity I'm not sure a Battle class or Macross Quarters are enough. Something like a Varauta Fleet Flagship Carrier with 8 Macros cannons and super sized Reaction warheads.

Oh the Aerail Knights had to retreat last episode as not only did Messer damage their units he also wrecked Keith's Sv-262Hs Energy Conversion Armor.

[eko.prasetiyo]

well since winderemerean already deploy their main warship it wont be long until we see elysion lift off and start using main cannon.

my guess al-sahal will occupied and ragna will be the place of final battle

[seti88]

1. rei-rei u jellyfish joker...

2. watching the subs made a difference ..had dust go in my eyes in the end...

[SebastianP]

gg_Macross_Delta_-_11_18119710.mkv_snapshot_23.32_2016.06.14_16.33.27.jpg

I counted 41 ships in this image:

11 Osaka-class cruisers (the "Stealth Cruiser", name comes from a doujin "warships of the galaxy" type book); 10 Uraga-class carriers, 12 Guantanamo-class carriers, and 8 Northampton-class frigates. A pretty decent sized fleet all things considered... though they're probably getting stomped off screen.

[Saruta]

The team is showing their work on the music. While this still does not get to the sheer awesomeness of Fukuyama or Kanno, they are not just making up for it with quantity as I thought before, but also with a well thought out line of development. All five singers have lead songs after ep 10, and then in ep 11 we get an attempt at blending their voices - done acapella and with clear demonstration, in animation, who joins at what time.

Also Remember 16. Together with the Little Catgirl of Ep 7, this shows that covering is still a thing in canon, though not as big a thing as it was in M7. I do wonder if the eventual encounter of Heinz and Walkure will involve some covering.

I share most everyone's disappointment in that they did not show the end of Ep10's battle in any way. Okay, you don't want to animate it because you only have so many episodes - why not have Arad review it with the captain as an outline on a monitor? It would only take 15 seconds of screentime or something.

But I did like the way character development went on in this episode. Even Messer's notes being used for melodrama works in my opinion. Probably nobody would have read them that way while he was alive, but he is dead and that's how many people tend to handle death. The joke about a chance to read one's obituary is very old.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Saruta

[tapoop]

isn't the story going abit way too fast? I mean this is Macross we are talking about, this won't end season 1 with ep 15 or something, it have it end in 26 and add another 20+ episode for season 2.

I feel like we going to see some aliens coming along after this battle and windermeia need to focus their target on them instead and start working with walkure.

[d3v]

That Remember 16 cover was too good.

[Windrider]

For a Macross protagonist, so far he's had a very surprising track record of not totally destroying his Valks. The slightly used 171 from the beginning is probably the only one. He must be doing something right if his first Siegfried can withstand him not using the A.I safeties and joyrides. Strangely, it's mostly been been clipped wings and arm damage from overloading his pinpoint barriers.

.

He lost his VF's left arm and its sensor head was wrecked in Episode 8. Actually nobody in Delta platoon lost their VFs even Messer.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Windrider

[RedWolf]

well since winderemerean already deploy their main warship it wont be long until we see elysion lift off and start using main cannon.

my guess al-sahal will occupied and ragna will be the place of final battle

We are only at midpoint. Remember 26 episodes. If the battle comes to Ragna my guess it would be Midway for Windermere and the rest would be freeing the worlds occupied by Windermere.

Lady M is yet to be introduced.

The Delta preview does hint to a duel between Hayate and Keith on Ragna.

[Marzan]

I'm feeling no empathy whatsoever with the Windermereans and their "woe is us" narrative. Arrogant and haughty sucker. I hope before that before the inevitable 'let's all be friends to the power of music' end that Delta and NUNS get a couple of punches in.

I like how Kaname threw down the gauntlet at Mikumo. Look forward to hearing more of her singing.

[BlueMax]

The team is showing their work on the music. While this still does not get to the sheer awesomeness of Fukuyama or Kanno, they are not just making up for it with quantity as I thought before, but also with a well thought out line of development. All five singers have lead songs after ep 10, and then in ep 11 we get an attempt at blending their voices - done acapella and with clear demonstration, in animation, who joins at what time.

Agree the music is coming together, from the past 2-3 episodes. At the very least, the music is now able to flow with and amplify the action and emotions..... or in Delta's terms, "resonate" with the audience, echoing the "resonance" in the protoculture ruins.

Wait a minute......

Is Kawamori trolling us by suggesting we, the audience (likely in our mid 30s and up) are like relics?!

Edited June 14, 2016 by BlueMax

[trojan_gambit]

Delta lost 20% of personnel but combat capabilities drop by 37% ?

I wonder why they think about losing combat capability now, after Messer's death, and not when they reassign him somewhere.

[ManhattanProject972]

Goddamn its even sadder the 3rd time around and even more so with subs.

That shot of Mirage gazing out to the ocean was a very nice one.

And Ive been wondering, where is Keith's and Heinz's mothers? Maybe they were both lost to the hole and thats really whats got Gramia so pissed and vengeful?

Edited June 14, 2016 by ManhattanProject972

[RedWolf]

Goddamn its even sadder the 3rd time around and even more so with subs.

That shot of Mirage gazing out to the ocean was a very nice one.

And Ive been wondering, where is Keith's and Heinz's mothers? Maybe they were both lost to the hole and thats really whats got Gramia so pissed and vengeful?

Keith and Heinz have different mothers. Keith is a bastard literally. Both mothers died naturally before the war due to Windermerean lifespan.

Edited June 14, 2016 by RedWolf

[Rbstr]

And Ive been wondering, where is Keith's and Heinz's mothers? Maybe they were both lost to the hole and thats really whats got Gramia so pissed and vengeful?

Keith's would probably have died of old age by now, either way.

We don't really know how young Winders usually have kids, but Freyja is allegedly on the older side of typical marrying age. So they probably deal with 30-ish year old parents around the mid/late teens.

[Seto Kaiba]

I counted 41 ships in this image:

11 Osaka-class cruisers (the "Stealth Cruiser", name comes from a doujin "warships of the galaxy" type book); 10 Uraga-class carriers, 12 Guantanamo-class carriers, and 8 Northampton-class frigates. A pretty decent sized fleet all things considered... though they're probably getting stomped off screen.

That's a really unbalanced fleet, compared to what we usually see... I wonder if that's because of the combat losses from the last time the Aerial Knights ambushed Al Shahal?

Under normal circumstances, in a (New) UN Spacy flotilla there are about twice as many destroyers, frigates, and cruisers as there are carriers.

I'm feeling no empathy whatsoever with the Windermereans and their "woe is us" narrative. Arrogant and haughty sucker. I hope before that before the inevitable 'let's all be friends to the power of music' end that Delta and NUNS get a couple of punches in.

I like how Kaname threw down the gauntlet at Mikumo. Look forward to hearing more of her singing.

Somehow, I suspect that we're not supposed to empathize with the Windermerean "woe is me" routine. It seems like every time they trot out their white knight schtick (hmm...) about how cruel and exploitative the New UN Government is and how justice demands they liberate the Brisingr cluster, they immediately say or do something to reveal that it's an excuse to cover their real motives. What's more, it doesn't seem like that's much of a secret to the other residents of the Brisingr cluster. The Voldoran head of state called Roid on it a few episodes ago, noting that their Windermerean "liberators" were less knights in shining armor freeing a nation from oppression than they were a band of thugs with a reputation for indiscriminate violence turning Voldor into an occupied territory. He basically pointed out that the Voldorans wouldn't oppose Windermere openly only because they were essentially helpless and held at gunpoint.

Windermere's "we are the real victim" line seems to be more an excuse for King Gramia to act on the Aerial Knighthood's apparent belief that they have a manifest destiny as the Protoculture's heirs by a campaign of good ol' fashioned empire-building. I'm left to wonder how quickly their apparently deep-seated racism will turn on the "allies" they claim they're trying to liberate.

[grigolosi]

In order to galvanise your nation to undertake a goal like the Winders have set you have to have the support of the people. Gramia of course has played out the when victim card to a tee. At the end of his speech he had everyone in a patriotic fervor. He has ensured this by 1) making Windermere out to be the victims of an unjust government. 2) He has given his people the view that they are meant to transcend to some greater point in history by making up this true inheritor propaganda.

Gramia has sold this hook, line, and sinker to his people while controlling them through the restriction of information from off world. He has set them up for a big fall and further anguish at his and the nobles hands. I am sure that the Epsilon Foundation has plans also to take control in some way once all the dirty deeds are done.

Edited June 14, 2016 by grigolosi

[Duke Togo]

While there is plenty of cool stuff in this episode, it felt like they were trying way too hard to make you care for a 1-dimensional character they had just killed off who you knew nothing about. Hell, I don't know anything about any of these characters.

[grigolosi]

Here is something a tad off topic......isn't it odd to a member of another species who have only been in contact with humans for roughly 30 yrs to have a name like Chuck Mustang. Even the Zentraedi names are more none human or Terrin and they have been in contact with us for at least 20 yrs longer.....just something I thought about earlier today after watching the sub episode.

[Scyla]

I'm kinda disappointed that no one will replace Messer and inherit his VF-31F but with the pace the story is moving there is probably no time to give him the least bit of backstory.

I'm sure till the end of the series they will wage war against Windermere, get crushed by an unknown enemy and have to unite their forces, celebrate their victory, rebuilding the sector, getting in a dispute who has the right to lead the combined forces, find a cure for the Windermeres short lifespan, get crushed again bu a returning enemy until they finally make peace for good.

I agree that the different episodes feel a bit disconnected due to the fact that the last setpiece in the previous episode ends so abruptly but they are moving at lightning speed which I like. Better then a ton of filler episodes.

Quick question: when the big Windermerean capital ship ascents for the planet is it a 3D model or drawn? If it is a 3D model it looked really good.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Quick question: when the big Windermerean capital ship ascents for the planet is it a 3D model or drawn? If it is a 3D model it looked really good.

I think it's drawn. There's a very short sequence at the beginning of the liftoff where the starboard prong moves at a different rate than the central section, but that could have been done by illustrating each section separately. Otherwise the SV is not really shown making any perspective moves as it crosses the camera's point of view.

They'll have to have a 3D model of it for any sort of intricate action sequences later, but considering how the other conventionally-drawn portions of this episode were rough around the edges, they're likely saving the budget for the really important parts.

[Zinjo]

subs are out!

Nevermind

Edited June 14, 2016 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

I'm kinda disappointed that no one will replace Messer and inherit his VF-31F but with the pace the story is moving there is probably no time to give him the least bit of backstory.

I'm sure till the end of the series they will wage war against Windermere, get crushed by an unknown enemy and have to unite their forces, celebrate their victory, rebuilding the sector, getting in a dispute who has the right to lead the combined forces, find a cure for the Windermeres short lifespan, get crushed again bu a returning enemy until they finally make peace for good.

I agree that the different episodes feel a bit disconnected due to the fact that the last setpiece in the previous episode ends so abruptly but they are moving at lightning speed which I like. Better then a ton of filler episodes.

Quick question: when the big Windermerean capital ship ascents for the planet is it a 3D model or drawn? If it is a 3D model it looked really good.

I expect some betrayal from Epsilon but joining forces making Kingdom of Wind good guys? Not really. They are really hammering it to us Gramia and Keith are not good guys going full imperial Japan.

I'm guessing by midpoint Windermere's dream of imperialism broken by NUNS and Chaos protecting the unoccupied ruins. Next what would happen is planet hoping Walkure breaking their control of ruins liberating world after world.

Final conflict would be on the skies of Windermere itself.

I'm expecting Roid to defect for Heinz sake as it is becoming apparent Gramia doesn't care about him and wants wanton slaughter. Heinz is realizing Windermere could end up burning like in Freyja's vision. And perhaps an alternative to their warlike ways from Mikumo's vision.

Edited June 14, 2016 by RedWolf

[maczero]

Good episode and...

Maybe it's a false impression but it seems that there are two different types of frigates in the NUNS fleet. One with a kind of 'standard' bow and one with the modified bow.

And other data, 8 billion = 8.000.0000.000 (Short scale) or 8 billion = 8.000.000.000.000 (Large scale or International System of Units)? using the international system, 8 billions seems an exaggeration

Edited June 14, 2016 by maczero

[Saruta]

I just bought these, and now I wonder if they might give me the Var or something...

[RedWolf]

Good episode and...

Maybe it's a false impression but it seems that there are two different types of frigates in the NUNS fleet. One with a kind of 'standard' bow and one with the modified bow.

And other data, 8 billion = 8.000.0000.000 (Short scale) or 8 billion = 8.000.000.000.000 (Large scale or International System of Units)? using the international system, 8 billions seems an exaggeration

Dude 8 billion people. Cause unlike Earthers the native races weren't bombed to the stone age. Given those numbers it is fortuitous Earth uplifted them decades earlier.

Out of the known Sub-Protoculture races only Zolans reached 20th century level tech prior to first contact. And they aren't in the cluster.

[grigolosi]

I just bought these, and now I wonder if they might give me the Var or something...

Only if you have been drinking spring water from Voldor ruins also. The closest we have here on earth is Voss.... Edited June 14, 2016 by grigolosi

[Zinjo]

I'm kinda disappointed that no one will replace Messer and inherit his VF-31F but with the pace the story is moving there is probably no time to give him the least bit of backstory.

I'm sure till the end of the series they will wage war against Windermere, get crushed by an unknown enemy and have to unite their forces, celebrate their victory, rebuilding the sector, getting in a dispute who has the right to lead the combined forces, find a cure for the Windermeres short lifespan, get crushed again bu a returning enemy until they finally make peace for good.

I agree that the different episodes feel a bit disconnected due to the fact that the last setpiece in the previous episode ends so abruptly but they are moving at lightning speed which I like. Better then a ton of filler episodes.

Quick question: when the big Windermerean capital ship ascents for the planet is it a 3D model or drawn? If it is a 3D model it looked really good.

Perhaps SK is setting up a SW2.

If Windermere successfully mind controls most of the sector, NUNS will have to get involved and bring the full weight of the Federal forces into the fray to battle mind controlled fleets commandeered by Windermere. Very much like how WW2 started. Germany started out small, but when they crossed a certain point, Europe and the British Commonwealth declared all out war.

It was 2.5 years into the war in Europe before the US jumped in, after Germany's ally Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Zinjo

[Thom]

Just binged on this today. Still liking Frontier better, especially the songs, but it is a good, strong show. As always the characters are great, especially the second string. I'm hoping Hayate begins to dance some more and taps Kieth into the afterlife. Also hoping Mirage gets in touch with her flying heritage and starts waxing some Knights, especially that little bitch Bogue! Only going to get harder before it gets done though...

As for the Windermer, for them I have no sympathy. As the saying goes, the victors write the history, and I think their war of independence went a lot differently than history proclaims. I'm thinking this belief that they are the rightful heirs to the Protoculture was already effecting their relations with the NUNS and Earth and proclaiming NUNS as the bad guys is a subterfuge used for propaganda. I also think Freyja saw the dimensional device go off, and I think the Windermere's did it to themselves. Who knows, it may have been a Protoculture warhead that went off while they were playing with it! Seeing how much they're tinkering with ancient tech would make that likely.

Can't own up to it though, oh no, gotta blame someone else!

Oh well... When Mission 12 coming out!?

Edited June 14, 2016 by Thom

[azrael]

I just bought these, and now I wonder if they might give me the Var or something...

Beans, beans, the musical fruit

The more you eat...

[Seto Kaiba]

I just bought these, and now I wonder if they might give me the Var or something...

Well, you'll certainly become well acquainted with the wind afterwards...

[UN Spacy]

I just bought these, and now I wonder if they might give me the Var or something...

Well, you'll certainly become well acquainted with the wind afterwards...

[Zinjo]

Beans, beans, the musical fruit

The more you eat...

isn't that song from the "Oliver" musical?