Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 10 - READ 1st POST

[network19]

Why didn’t Delta squad deploy multi drones prior to Messer showing up?

I'm going to be mad if that blood spatter isn’t his blood but a paintball from when he was doing mock battles.

[Mr March]

I think my imagination is the most horrifying part of that event. By not showing the actual graphic details, it somehow feels even worse than when the do show the details, like in DYRL or Macross Plus. Just the idea of a mecha-scale weapon being used in that way makes me cringe. And that massive display inside the cockpit in all directions - I don't even...

I will say that inspite of the tragedy, I do feel like this has added some much needed dramatic tension to the recent Macross Delta battles. They have been in danger of becoming almost comically repetitive; engage -> ? -> disengage -> nothing resolved. This even ups the stakes and gives a lot more dramatic weight to both the battle in this episode, but also going forward. Not to mention the emotional stakes at this point, the characters reeling from the turn of events. It also sets up some desperation going forward as certain characters will no doubt try to figure out a way to fight going forward, knowing the odds.

Quite the episode.

[ArchieNov]

Unlike popular opinion, I don't think Messer and Keith were evenly matched. Messer always seemed pretty serious and intense in his dogfights vs Keith, while Keith looked like he was having fun facing someone who was skilled enough not to bore him. The way Keith killed Messer proves how much more skilled he was, opting to use a pinpoint attack while on a head on collision course to snipe Messer. If his aim was off by just a foot, he would have missed. And the time frame at which he had to make that shot was only a few seconds at most.

If that's not showboating, I don't know what else it could be. And people usually only showboat when they believe they have a massive advantage over their opponent and can toy with them.

Edited June 7, 2016 by ArchieNov

[MisaForever]

A thought...

Why hasn't the Elysion lifted off and fought against the Windermerians? Couldn't it do some massive damage to them?

[Mr March]

Hasn't the Aether and Hemera been deployed at various points in the series so far to do just that? I would think that unlike the New Unified Forces/Spacy, the Xaos folks are limited in what forces they can deploy and where. So they use the Elysion as their base of operations (with the option to move, should they need to) and deploy the carriers to fulfill any long range sorties.

[RDX17]

A thought...

Why hasn't the Elysion lifted off and fought against the Windermerians? Couldn't it do some massive damage to them?

Hopefully someone can provide the proper terminology, but if I recall correctly...there's some type of fold barrier surrounding Windermere that would not allow them to do so. Assuming you're asking why they haven't straight-up headed to Windermere, taking the fight to them.

Also, although I believe Windermere has declared war, everyone else involved appears to be on the defensive...focused on countering the Var.

I imagine we're going to see the Elysion deployed at some point, and am definitely looking forward to where this series is headed.

[MisaForever]

Hasn't the Aether and Hemera been deployed at various points in the series so far to do just that? I would think that unlike the New Unified Forces/Spacy, the Xaos folks are limited in what forces they can deploy and where. So they use the Elysion as their base of operations (with the option to move, should they need to) and deploy the carriers to fulfill any long range sorties.

Well, yes, however the Elysion has a plethora of armaments that the carriers don't including a MAIN GUN!! Just saying.

[zaino]

Though we commiserate the apparent loss of the Grim Reaper, perhaps from a warrior's point of view, it was a worthy death. Dying facing the most worthy opponent, dying while having his beloved singing to him, for him, while also fighting for the beloved.

It was as worthy a death (apparent,at least, and as far as anime is concerned anyway) as it can be.

I dont know i kind of disagree since he delta took a huge loss in losing him and he wasnt able to take out a single aerial knight, in all the battles they just keep blowing up the drones and really dont do anything to the pilots except the one hayate kills but he was green as grass

delta is in serious trouble right now and i really cant wait for next week because they need a miracle

[tout-puissant]

They DID deploy the multidrones - Kaname is seen with some right after Messer talks with her. Presumably they can't quite fend an Sv-262's main cannon, so either they didn't try or they were already tasked with other defensive functions.

Mark

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Just a guess, but Chaos's garrison contract obligations to Ragna may preclude moving Elysion's core sections away from the planet unless there is a fleet-level direct threat to the planet itself.

[Mr March]

Well, yes, however the Elysion has a plethora of armaments that the carriers don't including a MAIN GUN!! Just saying.

I suppose you're right. Though I suspect the lack of spaceship battles or large-scale fleet engagements featured in the show thus far has limited the opportunity for the writers to arrange a sequence for a main gun attack. I wonder if that's intentional or just how the show has turned out so far. I suspect the Var Syndrome and Song of the Wind attacks aren't all that good in space, without a Protoculture ruin nearby to exploit and amplify the effect.

[Master Dex]

I suppose you're right. Though I suspect the lack of spaceship battles or large-scale fleet engagements featured in the show thus far has limited the opportunity for the writers to arrange a sequence for a main gun attack. I wonder if that's intentional or just how the show has turned out so far. I suspect the Var Syndrome and Song of the Wind attacks aren't all that good in space, without a Protoculture ruin nearby to exploit and amplify the effect.

Well episode 6 was in an asteroid thicket near a planet with var controlled pilots. They can certainly send the song to any area via fold transmission (as it were) but you are right the ruins are what make it a planetary attack for sure.

As for main gun usage, I think they are trying to save such things as signs of big trouble nowadays. SDFM needed the main gun most battles because they were that outgunned (luckily they managed to spice it up with an occasional Daedalus Attack, which only backfired on them once, lol). Macross 7 didn't give us a Battle 7 transformation and gun firing until episode 17 I think it was.. but after that it happened nearly every week, and often with stock footage (one of 7's most notorious sins). Frontier on the other hand didn't show us a New Macross class cannon firing until episode 18, 2/3rds into the series, and it was done is cruiser mode. To wit when Battle Frontier finally did transform in the finale it never even got to fire its cannon (Battle Galaxy did, but it was not a full power shot I think. Though Battle Frontier countered with a Macross Attack to Galaxy's gut which made me squee, lol).

Now the movies gave us a lot more Battle Frontier love in terms of transformation and cannon firings, but it seems clear the they are trying more now to limit the reliance on the Heavy Quantum Converging Beam cannons which can become easy win buttons. I bet we'll see Elysion fire it's big gun eventually.. but it may be a while.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

How many red foods can Messer have in the cockpit with him?

Birthday Cake? from https://twitter.com/kinonenosiitake/status/740224354420559872

Edited June 7, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[Product9]

They DID deploy the multidrones - Kaname is seen with some right after Messer talks with her. Presumably they can't quite fend an Sv-262's main cannon, so either they didn't try or they were already tasked with other defensive functions.

Mark

Those drones were deployed by Messer as he took off

[kalvasflam]

so, I wonder who is going to clean up the mess in that Valk.

[M'Kyuun]

Falling from that altitude at that velocity, what's left of Messer will fit in Ziplock sandwich bags. Unless Overtechnology enables the cockpit section to remain intact.

Anyway, I'm of a similar opinion as Mr. March; until now, despite all the dogfights and such, there hasn't been much in the way of injury to either side ( discounting the loss of the Windermerean rookie early on). This may be a turning of the tide.

Edited June 8, 2016 by M'Kyuun

[Dio]

Mikumo is going to remote control Messer's VF-31 via slave mode, and avenge him while simultaneously revealing her androidism next episode. The foreshadowing was there from the beginning, first the boomerang drones and now a full Valkyrie.

Next, Elysion.

[Einherjar]

Still wondering if Messer might possibly be alive, but thinking probably not.

Keith used the head/nose lasers, which are arguably the weakest weapon on the Sv262. We know that head lasers on a VF are at least powerful enough to shoot down micro-missiles (but not usually powerful enough for a clean kill of a VF, unless in a weak spot like in this instance).

Anyway, the energy from the head laser would easily be enough to vaporize a human body. However, at least some of the energy from the head laser may have been dissipated punching through the canopy, so perhaps Messer just received a messy and disabling, but non-fatal wound.

Damn, Messer really did have Sven's color scheme.

Maybe Keith, like most of the other Knights, is just a sadist. Even if the shot wasn't at full power, it's probably a killing blow.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hrm... for the first time, I've had to tender a Neutral vote.

This episode was good, but it didn't feel like a cohesive story... I had the same impression here that I had when my girlfriend dragged me to see Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Namely, that what I was watching was bits and pieces from two different stories inexpertly stitched together with no regard for tone. The first half was so happy-go-lucky that the second half feels jarringly out of place by comparison. On the own, each could've been a 22 minute episode... but made into a single episode, it feels like two plots, neither of which got the attention it deserved.

Even Keith hung a lampshade on the distressing lack of transformation in these dogfights... they're beautifully choreographed, but I'd like to see them remember that the V in VF means "Variable".

[sharky]

That would imply that Basara is actualy interested in anything other than singing. It's more likely that he just sang so hard one day that Sivil got pregnant from across the galaxy.

Sounds about right. Basara is the Chuck Norris of the Macross universe.

[Graham]

I'm guessing the next death in the series will be Master Herman. I mean he's 33, so he's already lived 3 years longer than the average life-span for Windermereans

Likely he'll end up dying, sacrificing himself while saving Bogue (again).

[kalvasflam]

I'm guessing the next death in the series will be Master Herman. I mean he's 33, so he's already lived 3 years longer than the average life-span for Windermereans

Likely he'll end up dying, sacrificing himself while saving Bogue (again).

I still think Chuck must die next. But Herman does need to go. Possibly Cassim too.

[azrael]

I'm guessing the next death in the series will be Master Herman. I mean he's 33, so he's already lived 3 years longer than the average life-span for Windermereans

Likely he'll end up dying, sacrificing himself while saving Bogue (again).

I still think Chuck must die next. But Herman does need to go. Possibly Cassim too.

Since we've killed someone already, which even by anime terms is fairly early, Kawamori should break the mold. I'm going to go with Cassim-whatever-his-name-is to die by Chuck. Herman? I going with Mirage or Arad to be the one to take him down but not as Herman is trying to save Bogue.

[Graham]

We need an Aerial Knight death next as revenge for Messer and also to balance out the odds, otherwise Delta Squadron will be over-matched.

[tapoop]

We need an Aerial Knight death next as revenge for Messer and also to balance out the odds, otherwise Delta Squadron will be over-matched.

dont worry, basara will fly in and gamilin will follow him as usualy and watch gamilin 1 vs 5 them in a dogfight kicking their ass while basara singing his new song... and walkure go "bomber"

and the end. Macross detla is finish this season, IThey will feature Macross 7 ex. encore with MAX turning Var vs Miria in a dog fight!

[trojan_gambit]

The death was expected, the last 2 episodes are mostly about Messer. I think it's a bit rushed.

He got Vars, he got cured, he got reassigned, he got back, he got killed.

On the other side, it's a terrible decision by Chaos to reassign Messer, the top ace, while there's no immediate replacement around.

Especially when the war is escalating.

Even by counting number alone, the Knights have advantage over Delta (6 vs 5, 5 can keep Delta busy, while 1 can sneak in to kill Walkure).

If Vars is the reason, they could have him on-standby as backup, or fly close to Walkure.

[azrael]

He got Vars, he got cured, he got reassigned, he got back, he got killed.

Messer wasn't cured. Walkure basically give the equivalent of ibuprofen to manage the symptoms.

On the other side, it's a terrible decision by Chaos to reassign Messer, the top ace, while there's no immediate replacement around.

It's either move away from all the people with the flu or stick around and increase the chances of getting sick.

[starla]

I'll let you know once I figure it out myself. Truthfully, I just saw Civil War the other day so it was on my mind...

my delusional inner fangirl would totally buy Messer doing a Bucky........ but my inner SERIOUS MACROSS FAN says NOOOoooooooOOOOoooooOoooo

Her and Max both, but honestly, if you think about it, it even makes sense that she would send Messer out knowing his condition...

Johnson: "Lady M, are you sure, you want to assign Messer to Delta platoon? He'll be in high stress situation, and he is a known carrier of VAR."

M: "Of course I am, Mirage is in serious need of training, she has the basics of piloting down, but none of the instincts, Messer is ideal for training people."

Johnson: "How do we teach her instinct?'

M: "Simple, just tell Messer to be his cold hearted self, beat her up continuously on training mission, and keep criticizing her at every point."

Johnson: "but what if she doesn't improve, this isn't exactly the normal way, we might even break her."

M: "Ernie, you're a Zentradi, right? That method is the normal way for Zentradi, and we had it much tougher, we just got thrown out battle, and if we got killed, well, back then, the battle field is the only training ground we had. And a little constructive criticism better not break her, she has my genes, I damn well didn't break the first time Max shot me down, and he was using live ammo. With Messer, all she'll get is harsh language and a bunch of paint pellets."

M: "As for Messer, just keep an eye on him, and send me the data on his condition as needed. We can always pull him if we have to, I can send one of my other son in laws out there to replace him.... hmmm, where is that Gamlin."

i can get behind plans for an ace flygirl any day! Mirage isn't that great a pilot (yet!) but perhaps, this is her turning point. though so far the debate has been on instinct vs learned skills, & whatever instinct she has, it's been pretty innocuous.

maybe the precedent this time round come the latter half of the series is not so much the grooming of an ace pilot or a replacement but like someone pointed out, Delta's potential could probably be a Mirage x Hayate tag team.

Mikumo: hahah, c'mon... she is so that girl! the bohemian, nature-loving chick you see in a commune or kibbutz - shoeless, topless, great hair, one with nature - nothing strange about her at all

[d3v]

Messer being reassigned made me wonder about the effects of Var on the NUNS logistics and personnel divisions. I mean, it basically means that they have to keep transferring anyone freed from Var out of the front, so they're likely having to replace entire divisions.

[RedWolf]

One thing different in Messer from Roy, Kinryu and Michael is that he isn't a womanizer.

[d3v]

One thing different in Messer from Roy, Kinryu and Michael is that he isn't a womanizer.

I guess how much of a womanizer you are dictates how heroic your death will be in Macross.

Look at Kinryu, he'd go on dates with two women at the same time, and how did he go? He took out a friggin battleship buying the Macross 7 fleet time to get away, while singing Totsugeki Love heart to boot.

Edited June 8, 2016 by d3v

[Kyp Durron]

Just think if he didn't show up Hayate and Walkure would have all died. We were robbed.

I still don't understand the logic behind having them enter a battle without the protection of being in a VF. Have them sing from the back seat. They don't seem very protected in their flying dresses.

So like was Mikumo floating naked in a sea of jelly fish eggs? kinky!

He's not dead! That wasn't blood! It was jelly fish eggs that Mikumo collected and gave to Messer as parting gift.

Glad I wasn't the only one rooting for that, I just can't get behind their music.

As for Messer, as others have mentioned, he might have lived longer if only he remembered that the 'V' in VF meant he had other options besides fighter mode.

I wonder who they're going to get to replace Messer, they can't use Ozma, he'd take down the Aerial Knights by himself, too OP, same with Dyson, maybe a temp appearance from Alto? Though 7 years after Frontier, he's probably busy leading his own squadron by now.

[squaresphere]

dont worry, basara will fly in and gamilin will follow him as usualy and watch gamilin 1 vs 5 them in a dogfight kicking their ass while basara singing his new song... and walkure go "bomber"

and the end. Macross detla is finish this season, IThey will feature Macross 7 ex. encore with MAX turning Var vs Miria in a dog fight!

HAHA, Gamlin doesn't get a enough love! Not only will he 1 v 5 them, he'll shoot them all down without killing them AND blow up all their drones. His pilot skill is so underplayed due to the crazy rock power vs space demon/vampires weirdness that's happening at the same time.

[MisaForever]

I can see it now....

"Welcome to Walkure Wor.."

"BOMBA!!!! Listen to my song!!"

[Marzan]

We're all assuming at this point that someone will fill the ranks of Delta to help in the fight against the Knights. Presumably the mysterious Lady M. But there is another M that is just as likely to provide the upgrade that Delta desperately needs to fight the Knights. Never underestimate the power of the Montage. Hayate and Mirage just need a couple of minutes upgrade with the right training montage.