Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 8 - READ 1st POST

[Zinjo]

This episode gave a very WW2 Japan vibe to Windemere, and I dug that commentary. Fighting imperialism with imperialism, and feeling justified in their actions. Freeing other worlds from NUNS influence by oppressing and exploiting them. Very fanatical in their logic. Is it too on the nose? I'm not really sure.

I'll take your word for it. I am not as well versed in WW2 Japanese history as I am with German.

[Strumvogel]

I liked the dogfights in this episode, they need to slow it down more like this so that we can actually follow it.

Seriously, most of the dogfights in the show so far have been so fast that you'd have to be hopped up on speed to follow it.

[Zinjo]

Mirage is Max's granddaughter, but the Jenius family is essentially the one recurring exception to the rule when it comes to having recurring characters. With them as pretty much the sole exception, Kawamori doesn't generally indulge in having characters in his new Macross shows be related to those in previous ones. Often there's no association at all, except that some have become well-known historical figures or are simply famous.

Considering that Hayate supposedly resembles someone Arad knew, and how everything keeps coming back to Windermere, I'm betting ...

... that Hayate, like Freyja, lost his family in Windermere's war of "independence", but just doesn't know it because he was being raised on some other planet that reinforced the Windermere NUNS garrison.

You are forgetting the Sheryl was Mao Nome's grand daughter and Isamu came back at the climax of Wings of Goodbye in a cameo. SK isn't above relating new characters to old, but he does balk at direct sequels to previous productions. Hence why we'll never see a show about the Megaroad 01.

[kajnrig]

IMO, it's an OK ensemble song. My problem is during the chorus, JUNNA's voice really stands out. It doesn't sound like 1 harmonious voice. It sounds like a bunch of voices fighting each other. Back in episode 4 when Freyja and Mikumo were singing "Koi! Halation THE WAR", that felt like a good mix of their voices. Each of their voices were distinct yet it didn't feel like their voices were competing with each other.

Have you listened to the various songs on their own? I warmed up a fair bit more to them after doing so.

[Saruta]

Yes, I, too, warmed up to the OP after listening to it without the anime. (To be exact, after the real-life music video, even though I did not really like most of the choreography).

[David Hingtgen]

At this point in Frontier, it already had a greater number of good, memorable songs. Quality vs quantity. So far Delta is definitely aiming for the latter.

[kalvasflam]

Although some of the Delta songs are catchy, as long as it is not Aimo.

But I do agree that Mac frontier had better quality

[Saruta]

I do feel, too, that to an extent Delta is making up for loss of quality (compared to Frontier) with quantity. On the other hand, it is definitely showing its work NOT to be repetitive like M7 - which had a couple of absolutely awesome songs repeated way too much. (Not to mention what SDFM did to My Boyfriend is a Pilot).

Ikenai Borderline seems to hold the "best song" cup as yet and, yes, it is a Mikumo/JUNNA song far more than a Walkure song.

[Graham]

Yeah for me so far Ikenai Borderline is the only song that I like and sticks in my head.

[Graham]

I was very impressed that after Bogue destroyed The left forearm, arm gun and arm shield of Hayate's VF-31J with his beam cannon the animators or continuity checkers didn't mess up and when Hayate transformed to Fighter mode they correctly animated it showing that the arm shield and arm cannon was missing from the underside of the VF-31J's wing.

[kalvasflam]

There was that Freyja song from ep 3 that I kind of liked, don't remember the name, that and ikenai borderline are the only two that sticks out in my mind

[eko.prasetiyo]

curious about winderemerean rune. are that like tentacle or some sort hair extention. and what happen if it somehow being cut . also how many form of the rune? freyja has heart, hermann seems like a box, other aerial knight are like a star.

[Kelsain]

I was very impressed that after Bogue destroyed The left forearm, arm gun and arm shield of Hayate's VF-31J with his beam cannon the animators or continuity checkers didn't mess up and when Hayate transformed to Fighter mode they correctly animated it showing that the arm shield and arm cannon was missing from the underside of the VF-31J's wing.

Wow - good eye, Graham. I didn't even look. Considering how many times they got it wrong on Alto's VF-25, it IS impressive that they remembered that.

[Zinjo]

Yeah for me so far Ikenai Borderline is the only song that I like and sticks in my head.

It's the saxophone. It's always the saxophone that sticks in your head...

[Seto Kaiba]

curious about winderemerean rune. are that like tentacle or some sort hair extention. and what happen if it somehow being cut . also how many form of the rune? freyja has heart, hermann seems like a box, other aerial knight are like a star.

That's an excellent question... based on what Hermann said in Ep.8 and what's been said in the manga, it sounds like a Windermerean's runes are sensory organs (albeit minor ones). I'd imagine a male Windermerean losing one would impair their ability to sense the emotions of other Windermereans (IIRC that's what they're established to be for in the manga), though not severely so as they have two. In his close-up in Ep.1, Hermann only seems to have one rune... so it's possible he may have lost the other at some point.

[Strumvogel]

There was that Freyja song from ep 3 that I kind of liked, don't remember the name, that and ikenai borderline are the only two that sticks out in my mind

The Earth, Wind & Fire cover... I mean the ED song I really liked.

I suppose Ikenai Borderline worked as well as it did is that it's an energetic song that reaches out and grabs you not unlike Sheryl's songs in the opening of Frontier.

[ManhattanProject972]

Herman has another rune on the side toward the back of his head and I believe Windermerean women have one heart shaped one if Freyja and the brief shots of civilians as the Aerial Knights flew by were anything to go by.

curious about winderemerean rune. are that like tentacle or some sort hair extention. and what happen if it somehow being cut . also how many form of the rune? freyja has heart, hermann seems like a box, other aerial knight are like a star.

[Graham]

Wow - good eye, Graham. I didn't even look. Considering how many times they got it wrong on Alto's VF-25, it IS impressive that they remembered that.

I always go though the mecha scenes in every episode in slow-mo or frame by frame, several times.....haha

[renegadeleader1]

Nazism wasn't all about racial purity. It started out as a movement to reclaim surrendered lands after peace treaty of WW1 and when they achieved total power, it went horribly wrong and completely psychotic under Hitler and his inner circle. The first boogiemen were the Soviets which brought them to power, then the Jews, Gypsies, Poles, etc... followed after they got total power. The adage that absolute power corrupts absolutely is perfectly illustrated in that era.

I suggest you read up on the 25 point plan for the National Socialist Party that was co-written by original party leader and noted anti semetic Anton Drexler, Adolf Hitler, and several other founding members. It was delivered in a speech on Feb. 24, 1920 to mark the transition of the original German Worker's Party into the Nazi Party. Take note specifically of point 4.

Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.

This speech was given barely a year into the original German Workers party's existence, a year before Hitler was made head of the party, and 13 years before he was made Chancellor of Germany. To claim that nazism wasn't about racial purity and anti-semitism from its start or that Hitler corrupted it when he came to power is a complete and utter fallacy.

[Einherjar]

Possibly the most OP item in the franchise?

If the stone mounted on Hayate's pendent is fold quartz, wouldn't that mean it could resonate with just about anyone with a high enough Fold Receptor Factor (most songstresses in the galaxy and Basara)?

Bonus

Edited May 26, 2016 by Einherjar

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

so when is alto showing up to take back his ear piece to give it back to Mao's family.

and when is Shinn going to show up in a protoculture flying fish?

i'm still waiting for Jenius family member to show up and help Mirage.

last I'm waiting for Isamu to show up for 2 seconds so we can have another dx vf-19 advance Delta scheme.

[Zinjo]

I suggest you read up on the 25 point plan for the National Socialist Party that was co-written by original party leader and noted anti semetic Anton Drexler, Adolf Hitler, and several other founding members. It was delivered in a speech on Feb. 24, 1920 to mark the transition of the original German Worker's Party into the Nazi Party. Take note specifically of point 4.

This speech was given barely a year into the original German Workers party's existence, a year before Hitler was made head of the party, and 13 years before he was made Chancellor of Germany. To claim that nazism wasn't about racial purity and anti-semitism from its start or that Hitler corrupted it when he came to power is a complete and utter fallacy.

Fair enough. However, if you read your text, it wasn't "only" about anti-semitism. It was a specific founding principle, however not the only one and not the only group considered "inferior". What brought the Nazi's to power was not their racism and I'm sure you know that it wasn't that simplistic.

That being said, any further discussion on this topic should be taken out of this thread.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Zinjo

[Supernova]

IMO, it's an OK ensemble song. My problem is during the chorus, JUNNA's voice really stands out. It doesn't sound like 1 harmonious voice. It sounds like a bunch of voices fighting each other. Back in episode 4 when Freyja and Mikumo were singing "Koi! Halation THE WAR", that felt like a good mix of their voices. Each of their voices were distinct yet it didn't feel like their voices were competing with each other.

I have a feeling that was the point of the opening song though. The opening song is an octave war, it's basically 4 voices vs 1. JUNNA starts off the song, showing that she can hit low notes like the other girls, then during the second line JUNNA, Kaname's VA, and Freyja's VA harmonize but JUNNA raises her voice the loudest showing her command at hitting strong notes. Makina and Reina are just support for this song. The song itself is a battle between Freyja and Mikumo, with Kaname (and the other two to an extent) assiting Freyja. During the pre chorus Freyja and Mikumo show off what they can do individual but during the chorus JUNNA accelerates with the power of her voice. The opening song isn't really for harmonization but to show the different strength of the voices.

Ikenai Borderline and Rune ga Pikatto Hikattarra, however show how both Mikumo and Freyja can match each others voice. When JUNNA is the lead voice of the harmonization (Ikenai Borderline), you can hear Freyja's VA lowering her voice to match Mikumo's octaves showing that she can hit strong notes too. This can best be heard at 2:11 - 2:15 of the full version of Ikenai borderline and throughout if you listen keenly. When Freyja's VA is the lead voice of the harmonization (Rune ga Pikatto Hikattarra), you can hear JUNNA raising her voice to match Freyja's VA octaves showing that she can also sing high pitched as well. This can best be heard during 1:05 - 1:16 of the full version of the song. Regardless of who is leading that harmonization both girls voice compliments each other exceptionally.

​For a complete harmonizing of all 5 girls voices Koi! Halation the War is the best. The full song shows their amazing ability to harmonize. As Kawamari stated, all the songs from Walkure are different, which so far has been true. Each song has different harmonizations. Bokura no Senjō shows JUNNA and Freyja's VA harmonize equally with no lead, Silent Hacker has Reina as the lead with Makina harmoizing with her, ジリティツク☆BEGINNER has Makina as the lead with Reina harmonizing with her etc.

The only person missing a lead song is Kaname, and the last song axis is most likely (hopefully) hers.

[Marzan]

I've been hearing from some who are far more versed in Japanese than I am, that GG really takes a lot of liberties with their subs. Been reading the same here. I hope we don't get misled on some significant plot points.

[Kelsain]

I know they're usually the first game in town, but are there other fansubbers out there doing better work?

I've been keeping up with the show on Mondays, but it'd be nice to find a more reliable source for repeated views.

[Zinjo]

I know they're usually the first game in town, but are there other fansubbers out there doing better work?

I've been keeping up with the show on Mondays, but it'd be nice to find a more reliable source for repeated views.

Someone noted the Doki-Chihiro subs are better, but I haven't seen them yet. Typically over time other sub groups will chime in on their renditions of the series as they take more time to generate releases than the GG or Doki-Chihiro groups who are the early release groups. To get the subs within hours of the air time, they have to take short cuts and liberties with the work.

[kajnrig]

I dunno, from my limited experience with gg (literally just this series) I find myself having a lot of fun with their work. Lots of Woolseyism in effect. That "He would be proud of you" thing? Yes, it's not literally correct, but it carries the same sentiment as the original while being neatly creative and arguably working better in English.

There's certainly something to be said about their work distracting from the show itself, but still, I find their sub work to be, on the whole, fun.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

D-C isn't doing Delta that quickly, they're only up to Episode 5. The extra time allows nice touches like karaoke song lyrics. Their subs don't employ quite as many "colorful metaphors" compared to gg's.

The problem with being liberal with the subs or rushed is that a lot of time is being spent chasing rabbits down holes due to variations in turns of phrase, like this whole daddy issue.

[azrael]

If you kids want to debate the subs, there are other (more subtitling-dedicated) forums to do so.

If you just want to get the gist of what they're saying and don't mind the spelling and grammar mistakes, more colorful vocabulary, go with GG. Want a better translation with less liberal vocabulary usage, better lyrics translations, wait for Doki-Chihiro. Or you can wait for the Blu-ray which comes with English subs. Or learn Japanese and not rely on any subs.

As for me, I finally sat down and rewatched (unfortunately things like Doom get in the way during relax-time) the episode. It was nice to see Bogue knocked off his high-horse (literally) and setup his rivalry with Hayate now. Also I loved the moment when Hayate calls them on Windermere BS.

And for some reason, when someone mentioned to Messer that he's bleeding, the Black Knight from Monty Python or Jesse Ventura from Predator popped into my head.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

The breakneck pace of the series leaves me wondering questions like how large of an occupying force Windermere was holding Voldor with. Obviously they were relying on the Var to boost their numbers, but all we can confirm is the Knights, one ship in orbit (via an insignia sighting), and maybe a few actual ground troops. The stinger also implies that the Aether got away cleanly without much of a fight.

[RedWolf]

The breakneck pace of the series leaves me wondering questions like how large of an occupying force Windermere was holding Voldor with. Obviously they were relying on the Var to boost their numbers, but all we can confirm is the Knights, one ship in orbit (via an insignia sighting), and maybe a few actual ground troops. The stinger also implies that the Aether got away cleanly without much of a fight.

My impression is that Windermere forces are anemic. They have an army but in no way able to occupy multiple worlds.

Aerial Knight School on the manga side story gives the impression of a small number of Aerial Knights.

This is why they are reliant on Var and on the threat of Dimension Weapons.

However now that Chaos has obtained how Windermere is able to submit their forces there will be less hesitation to confront them by NUNS if they are able to organize in time.

[kajnrig]

Or learn Japanese and not rely on any subs.

I must admit, watching the raws does force me to try and keep up with the dialogue as best I can, which is definitely helping the whole language acquisition thing.

[Saruta]

The kick-ass "JUNNA shows off her English lessons" song appears to NOT be included in the OST and Walkure album so far?

[This Confuses Gamlin]

The kick-ass "JUNNA shows off her English lessons" song appears to NOT be included in the OST and Walkure album so far?

It's there: "NEO STREAM" is track #6 on Walküre Attack!