Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 8 - READ 1st POST

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Arad is talking about "Yellow Dancer" from robotech love live alive

In previous episodes, he seemed rather susceptible to the song that causes Var syndrome... which seems to work better against people who already have some manner of aggressive tendencies, like Zentradi.

I guess being on Voldor, in close proximity to the Protoculture ruins that were resonating with Heinz's song was more than he could handle.

i think he snuck some army rations and apples to save money. remember he said "he already ate" to hayate

Edited May 24, 2016 by davidwhangchoi

[Seto Kaiba]

i think he snuck some army rations and apples to save money. remember he said "he already ate" to hayate

My impression of Messer is the sort of stick-up-the-arse soldier boy who, like Sgt. Sagara from Full Metal Panic!, has no sense of humor and believes military ration packs are the very height of cuisine.

[hulagu]

Just a note on the subs before the discussion goes further, gg took some liberties with their translation (they usually do), specifically with what Arad and Mikumo said.

-Arad didn't really said "He would be proud of you" the actual line is "yoku nite yagaru ze"「よく似てやがるぜ、あの人に」, which is basically "He really resembles that person"

-Mikumo never calls Freyja a princess, so "good morning, princess" it's just gg taking liberties (before the theories about Freyja being secretly part of the Windermerian Royal family start), Mikumo just said "You finally awaken"

That's all.

While they're playing fast and loose with the subs, I'm so disappointed Hayate never told the Voldorian ace guy to "go home and be a family man"

[Einherjar]

This is the second time Hayate has lost an arm of his Siegfried overloading his pinpoint barrier. I really hope that's a subtle hint to his lineage. His valk may have a lot of fold quartz embedded in it, but looked like his pendant did all of the work in his awakening.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Einherjar

[sharky]

Can't remember the last time Macross BGM's had sweet guitar licks.

When Hayate downed Bogue's engine...oh hells yeah.

I know. The last parts of the episode felt very Macross-y IMHO.

this episode had me stressing lol......I was freaking out the whole time. I loved Keith and Messer met face to face.

Not only did they meet, but Messer felt Keith's wind. Does Keith save his most lethal wind for when the Grim Reaper comes a knockin' LOL!

I saw at the end of the episode right after the scene with Messer they (GG) posted a "random fact" statement about some of the lyrics being BS'ed due to f*&^%$# machine guns firing in the foreground preventing them from hearing certain lines.

Had to slow it down and freeze frame it to get it. I don't really pay much attention to the song lyrics in any case. At least not the first few times I watch something.

[kalvasflam]

Ok, so it's pretty much settled, Roid is more or less Grace. Look at the similarities.

The eye wear, the laid back manner, the soft voice. I for one agree with Graham, it's time to fear the Roid Rage.

=

As for the Aerial Knights. They are basically this guy without the slave mode.

Give Grace... I mean, Roid a little time, and he'll whip those guys in shape, no cybernetics needed, just a little Var and his own Freyja, and dump whiny Heinz.

Man... I wish I knew how to size the image here.

Edited May 24, 2016 by kalvasflam

[David Hingtgen]

We did need more business-suit Grace...

(But yeah, I agree, lots of similarities, possibly even similar goals/motivations)

[Zinjo]

I wonder if his family is a big name like mirage or just some ace pilot arad knew, the galaxy is big, who knows!

Hmmm, wonder if he's referring to Isamu? Hayate may be Isamu's son, or perhaps someone as gifted a pilot with the same cavalier attitude as Isamu.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Sketchley's Translations: Macross Chronicle Revised Ed. - Mechanic: Other UN 08A: YF-30 Chronos

Sketchley's Translations: Macross Chronicle Revised Ed. - Mechanic TF SMS 04A: YF-29 Durendal

The YF-29, YF-30 and VF-31 are pretty much the high end of VF technology. Resonating with a Fold Receptor, pilots and machine gets a boost in performance.

Additionally the Fold Wave System or Fold Wave Resonance system could explain why Keith's Rune wind detection power was disrupted with Freyja's singing.

Basically Delta Platoon has a Fold Wave NT-D System for the Aerial Knights Rune Newtype powers.

Well that's a credible explanation. Pure fold quartz and fold song can combine to open a window into Super Dimensional power. It could be an insight into how the biology of the Vajra works.

With Bogue referring to Windemere as the "Fatherland" it further supports my theory that they are a metaphor for the Nazi regime, at least Roid and the Ariel Knights are.

Junna did a better than usual job of singing English lyrics (not as good a Megumi Nakajima) but very good nonetheless. It was very much taking "What 'Bout My Star" to the next level and including more than half the song in English. I recall the difference between Megumi singing English lyrics compared to May'n. You could tell which was more comfortable with the language.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Zinjo

[kalvasflam]

Aerial.... doesn't take much to get to Aryan.... Although the knights seem to be quite multicultural.

[Zinjo]

It's probably safe to say that, apart from Mirage, none of the characters are going to turn out to be relatives of any existing ones. Kawamori has a very admirable tendency as a creator to try to make every Macross series or story as stand-alone as humanly possible, even on those occasions when two stories are both set in the same location and around the same time.¹ Even Mirage, the first of the Jenius grandchildren to appear, is the child of one of the Jenius daughters who hasn't appeared in a Macross story.

That old "long-lost relative" twist is seriously lazy writing at the best of times...

1. Such as Macross 7 and Macross 7 Trash, which occur at the same time and in the same fleet, but there's almost no cast overlap apart from some peripheral involvement on Max's part and a brief cameo by Milia. Or the Macross Frontier and Macross the Ride pair, where there's basically no overlap in cast despite being set in the same fleet less than a year apart and more than one of the main characters being current or former SMS staff.

Makina is a decendant of the Chief mechanic from Zero, Mirage is the grand daughter of Max, these are tie in's to previous series, but unlike M7 none of the previous characters were brought back. Perhaps SK felt it was needed for M7 since it had been nearly a decade since SDFM.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

Thinking back to Macross 7 Sivil was drawn to the Protoculture ruins of Rax after she woke from her sleep. Mikumo was drawn to the ruins of Voldor with it reacting for a bit to her.

Makina is a decendant of the Chief mechanic from Zero, Mirage is the grand daughter of Max, these are tie in's to previous series, but unlike M7 none of the previous characters were brought back. Perhaps SK felt it was needed for M7 since it had been nearly a decade since SDFM.

Fixed.

Edited May 24, 2016 by RedWolf

[Zinjo]

Aerial.... doesn't take much to get to Aryan.... Although the knights seem to be quite multicultural.

Nazism wasn't all about racial purity. It started out as a movement to reclaim surrendered lands after peace treaty of WW1 and when they achieved total power, it went horribly wrong and completely psychotic under Hitler and his inner circle. The first boogiemen were the Soviets which brought them to power, then the Jews, Gypsies, Poles, etc... followed after they got total power. The adage that absolute power corrupts absolutely is perfectly illustrated in that era.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Zinjo

[Sandman]

I'm glad to see Hayate is not killing var infected pilots unlike Messer. They knew what they were getting themselves into seems like a pretty flimsy excuse to justify killing them.

[Kelsain]

However, it did look like he was about to resign himself to it, in order to protect Freyja. Luckily, he didn't have to.

[RedWolf]

Hayate pretty much hit the Aerial Knights where it hurts for them. They aren't noble as they think. These nobles and knights do not even think about the peasants who make up the majority of Windermere as pointed by Freya. They are making farmers complicit in their crimes. Once it comes out their apples were the source of Var whose pockets do they think would be affected?

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

We did need more business-suit Grace...

(But yeah, I agree, lots of similarities, possibly even similar goals/motivations)

i think Roid is a good guy

[guyxxed]

Hmmm, wonder if he's referring to Isamu? Hayate may be Isamu's son, or perhaps someone as gifted a pilot with the same cavalier attitude as Isamu.

I hope not. I like the interpretation that Hayate's flying just reminds Arad of someone. I'd much prefer that to Hayate being the son/descendant of someone significant. I've never liked the 'special snowflake' school of storytelling and would rather he just be a normal everyday person who is discovering his natural talents.

I'll admit, his pendant would seem to indicate that I'll be disappointed, but a guy can still hope.

[guyxxed]

Sorry for the double post, but something else I wanted to mention is that the 'triangle' so far has had pretty much zero romantic intent in it, at least that I can see. While there's definitely some strong bonding going on in both directions, it so far feels much more like partnerships than romance. Both Hayate-Freyja and Hayate-Mirage are coming across more as buddy movie friendships than as contenders for coupling. Anyone else feeling that, or am I just blind?

[Saruta]

The engrish song was good, but I think Azrael has it right, the ensemble songs are the weakest point for Walkure so far.

I did not hear much "engrish" there. It was more like "JUNNA showing off her English lessons". I agree it might be a notch below what Megumi Nakajima could do with "What about my star", but still very impressive.

And is not the OP a pretty good ensemble song? (All other good-ish songs do seem to have a clear lead plus support - though I di dnot clearly understadn who the lead is in Silent Hacker?).

I got the sense Keith was somewhat depressed Messer got Var'd, he couldn't get his proper fight. It is notable he stopped attacking Messer once he realized it.

That, or Keith hopes to get Messer controlled through Var and so decided not to attack him.

Roid clearly wants to see more of how Walkure affect the ruins compared to Heinz. I heavily suspect he will want to eventually kidnap Freyja to help in whatever his long term plan is.

...in an obvious reference to the plight of Ranka in Frontier series. Which would work great for the way this series works so far.

(Speaking of "the way this series works", we have seen some pineapple in episode 7 but nobody of the main cast is dead, or nearly-dead, yet? They would not waste pineapple on faceless mind-controlled catman soldiers...)

Sorry for the double post, but something else I wanted to mention is that the 'triangle' so far has had pretty much zero romantic intent in it, at least that I can see. While there's definitely some strong bonding going on in both directions, it so far feels much more like partnerships than romance. Both Hayate-Freyja and Hayate-Mirage are coming across more as buddy movie friendships than as contenders for coupling. Anyone else feeling that, or am I just blind?

I actually see some romance going on between Hayate/Freyja, what with the way they seem to care for defending each other, and with the emotional (and Fold) motivation they provide for each other. I don't see it yet with Hayate/Mirage but we are only at episode 8. There was nothing going on for Hikaru/Misa by SDFM episode 8, while there was rather much (even if confused) Hikaru/Minmay. And yet we know how that ended.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Saruta

[crazysteve]

Once it comes out their apples were the source of Var whose pockets do they think would be affected?

It should be game over for Windermere's plans now, right? The entire cluster will be aware of the deception and they should lose the cooperation of the occupied planets.

I guess it all hinges on how permanent a Var infection is and whether or not it can be completely cured. Messer seems to have suffered Var relapse so who knows how it works for all the affected species. If Var is incurable then that's the only way I see Windermere having a chance to maintain a presence among the planets they've subjugated. Otherwise once everyone comes to their senses Windermere is out of here.

Blowing the lid off the Var manipulation should deal such a crippling political blow to the Windermereans that I suspect they'll start implementing whatever their master plan is only nine episodes in. It seems like checkmate to me. How can this conflict last when the bad guys have been exposed so early on? Maybe this is only a 13 episode season?

[Zinjo]

It should be game over for Windermere's plans now, right? The entire cluster will be aware of the deception and they should lose the cooperation of the occupied planets.

I guess it all hinges on how permanent a Var infection is and whether or not it can be completely cured. Messer seems to have suffered Var relapse so who knows how it works for all the affected species. If Var is incurable then that's the only way I see Windermere having a chance to maintain a presence among the planets they've subjugated. Otherwise once everyone comes to their senses Windermere is out of here.

Blowing the lid off the Var manipulation should deal such a crippling political blow to the Windermereans that I suspect they'll start implementing whatever their master plan is only nine episodes in. It seems like checkmate to me. How can this conflict last when the bad guys have been exposed so early on? Maybe this is only a 13 episode season?

Well this would be the catalyst for Windemere escalation. If their covert war fails, they will have to switch to an overt one and things will get ugly quickly.

[David Hingtgen]

Someone here mentioned early on that Messer was likely to get Var, and possibly end up killing one of the leads etc. The Var point certainly came true, and I realized an Ep or two ago----if anyone dies in this show, I think it'll be Mirage.

Putting the two together....

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Someone here mentioned early on that Messer was likely to get Var, and possibly end up killing one of the leads etc. The Var point certainly came true, and I realized an Ep or two ago----if anyone dies in this show, I think it'll be Mirage.

Putting the two together....

max to the rescue

[crazysteve]

I think Bogue kills Mirage (who goes down heroically like Roy) and Messer dies senselessly (like Kakizaki).

Jellyfish Ramen is the new pine salad.

[guyxxed]

I really can't see one of the main triangle dying. That's just not a Macross thing to do.

I actually see some romance going on between Hayate/Freyja, what with the way they seem to care for defending each other, and with the emotional (and Fold) motivation they provide for each other. I don't see it yet with Hayate/Mirage but we are only at episode 8. There was nothing going on for Hikaru/Misa by SDFM episode 8, while there was rather much (even if confused) Hikaru/Minmay. And yet we know how that ended.

I definitely see friendship, but neither seems actually romantically attracted to each other yet. Granted, that's actually a much more realistic way for a relationship to begin and is much healthier than the usual puppy love longing that we normally get. And I dont mind this path, either, it's kind of nice to have the romantic tension dialed down. Less high school hijinks and more mature of a story line.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

is Hayate better than Keith?

[Seto Kaiba]

Not only did they meet, but Messer felt Keith's wind. Does Keith save his most lethal wind for when the Grim Reaper comes a knockin' LOL!

Keith saves his most lethal wind for burrito day in the Aerial Knights commissary.

Well that's a credible explanation. Pure fold quartz and fold song can combine to open a window into Super Dimensional power. It could be an insight into how the biology of the Vajra works.

Take out the "song" part and you're there... the Vajra are powered by fold quartz dimensional energy conversion, not an entirely dissimilar approach to what the fold wave system produces in the YF-29.

With Bogue referring to Windemere as the "Fatherland" it further supports my theory that they are a metaphor for the Nazi regime, at least Roid and the Ariel Knights are.

Kawamori's Aesops are usually drawn from current events... the Nazis aren't the only contentious cultural group to use "fatherland" for their home. There are a couple middle eastern languages that do that too, and the Aerial Knights so far smack rather obviously of a xenophobic religious extremist group.

Makina is a decendant of the Chief mechanic from Zero, Mirage is the grand daughter of Max, these are tie in's to previous series, but unlike M7 none of the previous characters were brought back. Perhaps SK felt it was needed for M7 since it had been nearly a decade since SDFM.

Has it actually been officially confirmed that Makina is related to Raizou Nakajima? Last I heard, that was just a wild, unfounded fan theory.

Mirage is Max's granddaughter, but the Jenius family is essentially the one recurring exception to the rule when it comes to having recurring characters. With them as pretty much the sole exception, Kawamori doesn't generally indulge in having characters in his new Macross shows be related to those in previous ones. Often there's no association at all, except that some have become well-known historical figures or are simply famous.

Considering that Hayate supposedly resembles someone Arad knew, and how everything keeps coming back to Windermere, I'm betting ...

... that Hayate, like Freyja, lost his family in Windermere's war of "independence", but just doesn't know it because he was being raised on some other planet that reinforced the Windermere NUNS garrison.

[Master Dex]

I did not hear much "engrish" there. It was more like "JUNNA showing off her English lessons". I agree it might be a notch below what Megumi Nakajima could do with "What about my star", but still very impressive.

And is not the OP a pretty good ensemble song? (All other good-ish songs do seem to have a clear lead plus support - though I di dnot clearly understadn who the lead is in Silent Hacker?).

That, or Keith hopes to get Messer controlled through Var and so decided not to attack him.

...in an obvious reference to the plight of Ranka in Frontier series. Which would work great for the way this series works so far.

(Speaking of "the way this series works", we have seen some pineapple in episode 7 but nobody of the main cast is dead, or nearly-dead, yet? They would not waste pineapple on faceless mind-controlled catman soldiers...)

It was Engrish in that she was mixing it with Japanese, but fair point either way.

The opening is a good ensemble song.. but as is typical of Macross shows the opening is never included in the series as a regular song typically, despite being on the albums. Though admittedly the ending song appearing in episode 5 implies that may not always be the case and it could be coincidence. SDFM doesn't count really, but Seventh Moon was never sung in universe to my knowledge, nor was Triangler (even after it got a Sheryl/Ranka cover) or Lion (except for the Service Medley.. which might count). Silent Hacker was a Reina song, you can see her singing some lines in the sequence.

[Duke Togo]

This episode gave a very WW2 Japan vibe to Windemere, and I dug that commentary. Fighting imperialism with imperialism, and feeling justified in their actions. Freeing other worlds from NUNS influence by oppressing and exploiting them. Very fanatical in their logic. Is it too on the nose? I'm not really sure.

[RedWolf]

Take out the "song" part and you're there... the Vajra are powered by fold quartz dimensional energy conversion, not an entirely dissimilar approach to what the fold wave system produces in the YF-29.

Well if we go by Frontier TV Ranka and Ai-Kun pretty much did the same thing breaking the Queen Protocol hold on Vajra with the power of song. Ai-Kun was even sparkling.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

Has it actually been officially confirmed that Makina is related to Raizou Nakajima? Last I heard, that was just a wild, unfounded fan theory.

The Podcast crew discusses Makina at 37:10, quoting Newtype. It is not mentioned where the magazine got that information from, though. (Or, I've answered nothing...)

Edited May 24, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin

[azrael]

And is not the OP a pretty good ensemble song? (All other good-ish songs do seem to have a clear lead plus support - though I di dnot clearly understadn who the lead is in Silent Hacker?).

IMO, it's an OK ensemble song. My problem is during the chorus, JUNNA's voice really stands out. It doesn't sound like 1 harmonious voice. It sounds like a bunch of voices fighting each other. Back in episode 4 when Freyja and Mikumo were singing "Koi! Halation THE WAR", that felt like a good mix of their voices. Each of their voices were distinct yet it didn't feel like their voices were competing with each other.

(Speaking of "the way this series works", we have seen some pineapple in episode 7 but nobody of the main cast is dead, or nearly-dead, yet? They would not waste pineapple on faceless mind-controlled catman soldiers...)

The pineapple works in mysterious ways.

[Scyla]

Spectacular episode. Loved every second. I think it was good that the last episode was a bit more lighthearted so we could go neck deep into melodrama in this one.

[Mr March]

(Speaking of "the way this series works", we have seen some pineapple in episode 7 but nobody of the main cast is dead, or nearly-dead, yet? They would not waste pineapple on faceless mind-controlled catman soldiers...)

I've actually found myself thinking of this so often now, ever since Frontier so blatantly made it a huge fake-out in that series. Sub-consciously and consciously, i find myself looking our for any mention or appearance of pineapple in Macross Delta. It's a brain bug that just won't go away. I think OCD is setting in