Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 7 - READ 1st POST

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Yes it is indeed from Newtype! :-)

Its actually a picture I took myself the morning the magazine was released.

cool! you should watermark em so plp know

[kamadoma]

No valk action

Story telling episode
Knight's drugged water + normal Windermere apple = mind control source
Songs all done by the pink and green duo, also have Ranka's song tribute
Mikumo seems directly connected to protoculture?
Only she can hear the calling from the ruins of protoculture, somthing similar to Sarah?

What's the Ranka song tribute? I think I've missed it.

[Nazareno2012]

The absurd List.

- Pretty sure you don't breaking into a enemy base while singing.

That was already done in M7, though they were breaking out from captivity after the botched strike operation.

[Einherjar]

The absurd List.

- Pretty sure you don't hack a computer with pacman and singing.

- Pretty sure you don't breaking into a enemy base while singing.

- A group of idol singers can also act as spies?

- Why bring inexperienced, easily excitable people along with you on a spy mission?

Because they get things done. And steal a whole bunch of stuff from you without anyone noticing.

[azrael]

According to Egan Loo's Macross Chronology the Protoculture had remnants at the edge of the galaxy afer the dissolution of the Stellar Republic.

Assuming the galaxy didn't expand since Protoculture died off.

I'm wondering if the revolutionists triggered the WMD because the UN was getting too close to what they were doing in that city. And I wonder if the Windermereans might do the same on Voldor.

[CRYO]

What's the Ranka song tribute? I think I've missed it.

I mixed up, that 2ng song had been sung by Freyja a few episode ago, maybe their similarity and Freyja's over cuteness makes me start to miss Ranka XD

[squaresphere]

Neutral vote for me

Hacking songs/scene didn't really tickle my fancy. I was ready to write off all of the rest of Delta's music as "functional but not memorial", then those few lines from Mikumo made me want more.

I'm pretty sure Mikumo is the Macross equivalent to Batman at this point.

Glad we're moving the plot forward in a subtle way.

[RedWolf]

Too bad Mirage isn't thrilled with infiltration missions. Max had his VF-1 disguise as a Zentradi. Milia infiltrated the Macross just to meet Max. Mylene inherited Max's disguise sense.

Roid doesn't deny it was their fault bombing Scarfell. Just a year after the Vajra war the fools used it when the rest of the galaxy was weary of using such weapons.

I can see why NUNS HQ isn't thrilled at sending reinforcements as it would be a bloodbath and no guarantee Windermere would not kill civilians in spite.

What Freyja is learning now goes against what she was told. It is looking her own people are terrible with the Var and the bombing.

Voldor, Ragna and Zola are grateful to Earth for uplifting them it is just that Windermereans are so Culture Shocked that they are the shortest lived child the Protoculture. They make up excuses that they are the true heirs of the Protoculture as they and those in the Brisingr were last created. This excluded Terrans, Zentradi, Zolans and Mina Forte's race going by that flawed reasoning. Yeah Roid is unaware bringing war into space and causing conflict between Children of the Protoculture goes against the last wishes of the Protoculture. As we gathered with the Bird Human and the Messenger of Rax.

[seti88]

At first i thought i saw..

and then i thought i watched the station on endor being opened..

Overall, liked the comedy, wasnt too much a fan of singing while hacking behind enemy lines...

3 paws out of 5.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well Gigile appeared to be a walking, talking DE from what we saw him do to Lux in M7. You may well be right, but I still think that storing an MDE or any DE in a grounded warship to be irresponsible at best, criminal at worst. Quantum Cannons are one thing, a matter eating bomb is quite another!

Actually, given how they function, I'd argue that storing weapons which use heavy quanta would be exceedingly safe. Heavy quanta is like the C4 of overtechnology warhead materials. It only goes off under very specific conditions that make accidental detonation almost impossible. Without the resonance fold effect to collapse its extradimensional mass into realspace, it's inert and basically harmless. You could shoot the warhead, set it on fire, drop it off a building, and be assured that it would not go off as long as the resonator was unpowered. In many ways, it's arguably a safer weapon to store than the regular missiles used by fighters and warships.

[Valkyrie addict]

Interesting episode, enjoy it since it dwell more into the background of everything going on and, of course, always enjoy some protoculture stuff, just two observations
- Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but how ironic for the two characters who appear to be lesbian to be expert at "penetrating" defenses, no offenses to anyone
- Aren't first born descendant the rightful heirs of things, not the last, so the Windermere logic is a bit off

Guess next episode we get more character development from the 3 captives, specially Freija when they find out she's a Genius culminating with some crazy valk rescue after Walkurie eradicate the Var

[Scyla]

Had to give it a neutral rating:

Not a fan of the cat people. I'm not opposed to them as a concept in Macross but I think they where put there to cater to a specific fetish. In all the other Macross series we don't have that many species showing up. Now we got three new species in a relatively small area. Which seems to be not plausible to me.

I liked the dynamic between Reina and Makina and the focus of the episode on their actions.

The helmets with the protectors for the cat ears are hilarious. Maybe I can forgive them for introducing cat people because the helmets are totally worth it...

..well probably not

[edit:]

I don't understand why Roid declares war to the children of the Protoculture when he knows that the Windermereans are also an offspring of them.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Scyla

[azrael]

- Aren't first born descendant the rightful heirs of things, not the last, so the Windermere logic is a bit off

I don't understand why Roid declares war to the children of the Protoculture when he knows that the Windermereans are also offspring of them.

That's what doesn't make sense. Of course, having never read Roid's work, I don't know what his argument is. But it appears that his argument of "We, in this area, were the last ones so that means we are the final and best product." seems sketchy. So is the carbon dating on the PC ruins in that sector later than anything anyone else has seen? For humans, they have an inside track because of the Zentradi. Windermere, Ragna, Voldor, and likely all those other planets in the 'Cluster likely never saw the Zentradi. Humans have Zentradi records to supplement what we have discovered going back to AFOS.

[Zinjo]

That's what doesn't make sense. Of course, having never read Roid's work, I don't know what his argument is. But it appears that his argument of "We, in this area, were the last ones so that means we are the final and best product." seems sketchy. So is the carbon dating on the PC ruins in that sector later than anything anyone else has seen? For humans, they have an inside track because of the Zentradi. Windermere, Ragna, Voldor, and likely all those other planets in the 'Cluster likely never saw the Zentradi. Humans have Zentradi records to supplement what we have discovered going back to AFOS.

As a PC researcher it is possible that Roid had access to NUNG research when Windemere were part of the NUN Alliance, but at this point we don't know how much he actually does know or not.

[Roy Focker]

I think the worst moment of the entire series so far was the opening scene of the first episode. They started in it with the very real world threat of suicide bombers. Everything since has shown this to be the most absurd, funny, light heart and silliest of the Macross series. If this series takes a dark turn again in the 2nd act it is going feel strange with the rest of the tone.

[Master Dex]

Actually, given how they function, I'd argue that storing weapons which use heavy quanta would be exceedingly safe. Heavy quanta is like the C4 of overtechnology warhead materials. It only goes off under very specific conditions that make accidental detonation almost impossible. Without the resonance fold effect to collapse its extradimensional mass into realspace, it's inert and basically harmless. You could shoot the warhead, set it on fire, drop it off a building, and be assured that it would not go off as long as the resonator was unpowered. In many ways, it's arguably a safer weapon to store than the regular missiles used by fighters and warships.

That can be considered true of even modern nuclear weapons, as when unarmed the most danger they pose is the fact they have a certain amount of radioactive material inside them... which is typically never exposed. Unless armed it is actually pretty hard to make a nuclear warhead detonate (because the process to cause it is pretty specific). Arming said weapons is also pretty difficult, which is done on purpose so accidents don't happen. That being said C4, like Seto used, is a better example for stability probably (due to the aforementioned radioactive material).

[anime52k8]

That's what doesn't make sense. Of course, having never read Roid's work, I don't know what his argument is. But it appears that his argument of "We, in this area, were the last ones so that means we are the final and best product." seems sketchy. So is the carbon dating on the PC ruins in that sector later than anything anyone else has seen? For humans, they have an inside track because of the Zentradi. Windermere, Ragna, Voldor, and likely all those other planets in the 'Cluster likely never saw the Zentradi. Humans have Zentradi records to supplement what we have discovered going back to AFOS.

maybe he's just macross' space Hitler and he's full of BS to justify his megalomania.

[guyxxed]

A lot of what Roid has said publicly doesn't hold up, but I think that might be the point. His actual aim and thoughts haven't been shown yet (I'm speculating) and we'll see at some point that this is all a cover for a bigger plan.

On a different note, with all the lampshade hanging the characters were doing on the absurdities of the plot, I wonder if their mission is also cover for something bigger. Hayate outright states how dumb it is to send pilots on an infiltration mission, Arad all but laughed when he gave them the assignment, and their orders are basically "Run around and learn stuff". In the middle of all this, Mikumo keeps wandering off and doing her own thing with much more advanced tech and techniques than the others are using. It's possible that this is the creators just winking at us and saying "Just go with it", or it's maybe subtle hints that this is actually Mikumo's mission and that she's there for something very specific while the others are being used as distraction knowing that they're going to mess up. All complete speculation, but I would love for something like that to be true.

[Karaoke Ninja]

A lot of what Roid has said publicly doesn't hold up, but I think that might be the point. His actual aim and thoughts haven't been shown yet (I'm speculating) and we'll see at some point that this is all a cover for a bigger plan.

On a different note, with all the lampshade hanging the characters were doing on the absurdities of the plot, I wonder if their mission is also cover for something bigger. Hayate outright states how dumb it is to send pilots on an infiltration mission, Arad all but laughed when he gave them the assignment, and their orders are basically "Run around and learn stuff". In the middle of all this, Mikumo keeps wandering off and doing her own thing with much more advanced tech and techniques than the others are using. It's possible that this is the creators just winking at us and saying "Just go with it", or it's maybe subtle hints that this is actually Mikumo's mission and that she's there for something very specific while the others are being used as distraction knowing that they're going to mess up. All complete speculation, but I would love for something like that to be true.

As absurd as it is who else could they really send? Alpha and Beta squadron were all wiped out so they're out of the question. The mechanics? Chaos is a very very small organization. They really don't have much manpower.

[squaresphere]

Hmm on the whole, Roid has it backwards with PC legacy. It would be a really great twist if in Windimere culture the youngest gained all the inheritance. In a way it would fit with their short life spans if they thought it as the youngest would benefit the most for having everything left to them since they have the longest to live.

[Zinjo]

Hmm on the whole, Roid has it backwards with PC legacy. It would be a really great twist if in Windimere culture the youngest gained all the inheritance. In a way it would fit with their short life spans if they thought it as the youngest would benefit the most for having everything left to them since they have the longest to live.

That could very well be. Heinz appears to be the crown prince rather than Keith who is also a prince in the Kingdom, but older.

On an unrelated note, the galactic color pallette is green for this series as opposed to the purple we saw in Frontier.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Pimi_Petty]

I mixed up, that 2ng song had been sung by Freyja a few episode ago, maybe their similarity and Freyja's over cuteness makes me start to miss Ranka XD

I mixed up, that 2ng song had been sung by Freyja a few episode ago, maybe their similarity and Freyja's over cuteness makes me start to miss Ranka XD

Maybe it was that moment when Freiyja acting like a cat, seemed she was going to start singing the Nyan Nyan song?

[kamadoma]

Delta and Zero

[azrael]

That could very well be. Heinz appears to be the crown prince rather than Keith who is also a prince in the Kingdom, but older.

Keith isn't exactly a prince since he's an illegitimate son of the king (per his profile). Unless Windermere has some weird succession rules on bastard children.

[guyxxed]

As absurd as it is who else could they really send? Alpha and Beta squadron were all wiped out so they're out of the question. The mechanics? Chaos is a very very small organization. They really don't have much manpower.

Chaos at Ragna may be a small operation (though big enough to command a whole carrier, so not too small), but Chaos isn't just the Ragna division. Just like SMS, there are other branches with other resources.

Regardless, protagonist action trumps realism, so here we are, I'm just hoping that the fact we got in-universe acknowledgement of the goofiness means that the creators will give us some justifications as we go.

[Zinjo]

Keith isn't exactly a prince since he's an illegitimate son of the king (per his profile). Unless Windermere has some weird succession rules on bastard children.

I stand corrected.

Delta and Zero

It is not unusual to re-use footage from previous shows to provide a link between them... SK retconned Zero by adding in Sheryl's ear rings so the Nome heritage would be visually linked for Frontier.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[Karaoke Ninja]

Chaos at Ragna may be a small operation (though big enough to command a whole carrier, so not too small), but Chaos isn't just the Ragna division. Just like SMS, there are other branches with other resources.

Regardless, protagonist action trumps realism, so here we are, I'm just hoping that the fact we got in-universe acknowledgement of the goofiness means that the creators will give us some justifications as we go.

Has there ever been any mention of other branches or are you just making assumptions?

[guyxxed]

They've made several mentions of HQ in previous episodes as being someplace else, with Mikumo, Kaneme and Arad getting instructions and info from them. That's also apparently where Lady M is based.

[sharky]

I'd be careful in implicating Roid in the original rebellion. He would have been 13. Not likely to be in a high position yet, even given Windermerians' accelerated lifetimes.

Honestly he doesn't really even seem to be that in charge as is, he seems to be more executing someone else's plan.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to succumb to his Roid Rage.

[Seto Kaiba]

Has there ever been any mention of other branches or are you just making assumptions?

IIRC, Hayate refers to the Macross Elysion as Chaos's Ragna branch office back in episode 2.

That would kind of imply the existence of other branch offices elsewhere, much like SMS's.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

Hmm on the whole, Roid has it backwards with PC legacy. It would be a really great twist if in Windimere culture the youngest gained all the inheritance. In a way it would fit with their short life spans if they thought it as the youngest would benefit the most for having everything left to them since they have the longest to live.

More like he is discrediting Humans and Zentradi who got the ball rolling restarting interstellar civilization and uniting the Children of the Protoculture. Making assumptions that if those in the Brisingr cluster were the last created they were the favored chosen ones.

Similar to imperial Japan's stance of Asians for Asians in its Co-Prosperity Sphere. Windermereans of course would be first among equals. Note them banning local produce.

What about Zolans who aren't in the Brisingr cluster? They lie on a planet visited by a space folding Whales that give their lifeforce to the planet. The White Whale in ancient writing was worshiped as a god. We know that going by Mayan tribe genetic memory the Protoculture were animists worshiping the Vajra Queen. Zolans fill the Protoculture hopes of peaceful children with their stance on non-lethal responses and harmony with nature.

Humans, Zentradi and Zolans have been shown mix their races which what the Protoculture on Rax hoped what would happen in the future.

Though at the other end of that there are extremists like Naresuan and his followers who are Humans, Zentradi and Zolans who believe their true Protoculture heritage is to unite everyone under one culture and government not the loose alliance that the NUN is.

edit:

Earthers also have their claim to inherit from the Protoculture not because they are the favored ones as Roid believes with Windermereans but that of the Protoculture's will for peace and culture. Earthers and Zentradi did that with space emigration.

Despite having enhanced strength and fold receptor factor Windermereans could not reconcile the fact they are short lived and Earthers who are weaker physically claimed their inheritance to the stars first and much longer lived.

These conquests are short cuts and war they bring is what the Protoculture feared from their creations.

Edited May 17, 2016 by RedWolf

[Graham]

This episode is getting my first ever negative vote so far in the series and it's not because of any lack of mecha porn.

On the positive side, the episode did move the story forward and give us more information about the political situation and the cause of Var.

And the cat ear military helmets were cool.

On the negative side, the episode was a bit too silly for my taste.

• The whole VR hacking using Pacmen while singing...........urghhhh. Yes, real hacking may look visually boring, but what was shown in this episode was just way over the top.
• Sending your Elite team of pilots and famous (and thus potentially easily recognized) idol singers on a covert, intelligence gathering, infiltration mission behind enemy lines......double urghhh. I'm sorry, I can't believe that an organization with the obvious resources of Chaos doesn't have a few ex-military recconaissance/intelligence gathering specialists on the payroll, who would be better trained to handle such a mission. Yeah, I understand from a story perspective, they had to keep the focus on the main characters, but using such specialized and valuable assets as Delta and Walkure for a role they are mostly not trained and experienced in doing is pretty silly. At most they should have just sent Mikumo, Mirage and Messer, as Messer and Mirage at least have some military experience and Mikumo is the most capable, oh and Reina (for her hacking abilities).

[d3v]

At the very least, they should have left Hayate ad Freyja behind, or had a subplot where they were supposed to stay behind but ended up coming anyway. I think it's implied that the others, especially Mikumo, have some sort of undercover training.

[Scyla]

This episode is getting my first ever negative vote so far in the series and it's not because of any lack of mecha porn.

On the positive side, the episode did move the story forward and give us more information about the political situation and the cause of Var.

And the cat ear military helmets were cool.

On the negative side, the episode was a bit too silly for my taste.

• The whole VR hacking using Pacmen while singing...........urghhhh. Yes, real hacking may look visually boring, but what was shown in this episode was just way over the top.
• Sending your Elite team of pilots and famous (and thus potentially easily recognized) idol singers on a covert, intelligence gathering, infiltration mission behind enemy lines......double urghhh. I'm sorry, I can't believe that an organization with the obvious resources of Chaos doesn't have a few ex-military recconaissance/intelligence gathering specialists on the payroll, who would be better trained to handle such a mission. Yeah, I understand from a story perspective, they had to keep the focus on the main characters, but using such specialized and valuable assets as Delta and Walkure for a role they are mostly not trained and experienced in doing is pretty silly. At most they should have just sent Mikumo, Mirage and Messer, as Messer and Mirage at least have some military experience and Mikumo is the most capable, oh and Reina (for her hacking abilities).

While I agree with your assessment you could probably rationalize the inclusion of the others (namely Hayate and Freya) with that being some sort of training mission. Chaos probably never thought they would get into deep trouble while scouting the planet and if would give them valuable experience for future missions. I can totally believe that the rest of Delta Squadron and Walkrure are trained soldiers (much like say AKB0048) who know what they are doing.

Of course it had to go haywire since it has to be entertaining.

I think sending teenage boys and girls onto a dangerous mission is the logical flaw to begin with but we are talking about an anime. So in my head they are all 10 years older. Which is a good rule of thumb when watching this stuff.

[calubin_175]

Good thing they mixed science and magic to explain why only military personnel get infected.