Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 6 - READ 1st POST

[David Hingtgen]

Hard to edit/spellcheck/clarify thoughts when working around spoiler tags everywhere...

(plus I hit send before my brain had caught up with what I was thinking)

[UN Spacy]

Some watch the live stream and follow live-stream threads.

Subs need an editor and a spell-checker.

Yeah...they'll have to do until the official BD/DVD's are out.

[kajnrig]

Surprised to see subs out already (though judging by the last couple posts and the timing they're clearly releasing on Beta Version 0.9). From the raw...

Seems Hayate's conflict towards episode's end has to do with being responsible for killing the enemy pilot?

Musical number was meh, but the action was pretty to look at. Chaos finally seems like a tactical operation rather than a complete non-entity. Still, I'd like the show to finally slow down. It showed signs of doing so last episode, but then this one ramps up and ends all in one go. I'm rather disappointed, overall.

Hayate and Mirage have a camaraderie that I don't particularly buy. Their relationship seems to have evolved largely off-screen so far. I'm really itching for a few sequential episodes dedicated to character progression. Whatever criticisms I have of Frontier, at least it took the time to flesh out its characters.

Maybe they're moving the triangle to Messer/Arad/Kaname, aka Guld/Isamu/Myung 2.0. Part of me thinks Kaname is fixing to get herself BOTH of them, and if anyone can have their cake and eat it too, I think it's her. She and Arad help Messer work through his demons, and they end up becoming a strange but ultimately workable, complementary menage a trois. That or Messer remains grateful to them but wants no part in the romancing side of things, and she and Arad keep their love life to themselves. At any rate, the three of them are certainly more interesting than the main trio. Also, happy to see some more Makireina blatant relationshipping, though it'd be nice if the creators would just be super obvious about it, like have the two make out or eat out at a romantic diner while holding hands or something. Something that's more obvious than snuggling with, feeding, and groping each other. Because god knows Legend of Korra did all that and people still didn't get the hints.

Also, CF-31A action. Woo hoo.

[calubin_175]

Surprisingly, the cannon fodder enemy of this show are mind controlled VF-171s, and then the Sv-262 are high tier enemy units.

It looks like they only need a few small squads of Sv-262 to mop up the defense forces after the mind controlled ones have done their work.

This is using space magic militarily in a mechanised war.

[RedWolf]

Keith said the scar on the planet's surface is their shame.

Yeah they pretty much fraked up. Now they are targeting Protoculture ruin planets. Whether they are colonized by Humans and Zentradi or homeworlds of other Children of the Protoculture.

For a race with a superiority complex they do have an inferiority complex.

Keith's answer is kill them all as they need planets for their people to move to.

On another note politics is preventing NUNS from sending a combine fleet on Windermere. I'm sure there are a lot of factors to consider. From the dimension barrier surrounding Winfermere, the Var syndrome taking over military personnel, to the interpretation of the Galaxy Treaty preventing NUNS from invading planets. Not to mention politicians seeing this as typical planetary disputes.

Edited May 9, 2016 by RedWolf

[Rock]

Mirage will get there eventually, especially if you want to go based off the power duo scene with her and Hayate in the into back-to-back fighting. I feel their comradery that they took up in episode 6 after Messer's lecture is the first step.

[Kelsain]

Seems like Team Maki/Reina got some traction this week...

Cool episode, bug I would've liked to have seen the sound boosters working a little more directly.

[Master Dex]

I liked it overall.

The action was great and I loved the detail on the different levels of skill between Delta pilots. Arad and Chuck can go about disabling enemies because they know how to get close enough for it. Messer certainly can but he doesn't seem to care all that much as long as the job is done, but he at least recognizes that if one has the skill, then they can get away with that. In this light, I can't argue with him telling off Hayate and Mirage for trying so hard to do the same when they haven't mastered their skills enough yet.

Mirage to me appears to have a clear case of anxiety caused by the pressure of her family's fame. It's gotta be hard trying to live up to that. The fact that Mirage's flying is perfect in the sense that she flies exactly how she was trained to (by the book as Messer put it) leads her to be predictable is rather insightful. I also think Messer deserves credit for recognizing Hayate's dance flying is useful even if it isn't particularly so in combat (though he proved he can utilize it that way later).

I like that they technically had sound boosters.. and they now include holographic projectors, but they are sure less flashy than in Macross 7 (then again.. that show is grade S in flashiness). It could be that a sound booster amplifying and transmitting a fold wave (aka song energy) is not quite the same as when the singer is in the craft with the booster.

This show is paying a lot more attention to the difference in flying in space vs air than previous shows did, which I love seeing. I will be making more comments related to that in the mecha/tech thread later.

Hayate's first kill. He did it to save Mirage, and her words sure seem to have helped him with it. I think Mirage feels a bit less antagonistic toward Hayate now. They aren't as different anymore. The seeds of relations is clear. Freyja listening in while contemplating her reason for singing is clearly foreshadowing that Hayate will become her muse I bet. Seems too much like Ranka seeing Alto that way to me however. Maybe that is one reason I was so quick to jump on the #TeamMirage ship. Freyja is an interesting character and distinct enough from Ranka... but she still seems too much like Ranka.

I mentioned earlier Messer has grown on me since last week. A lot of debate was had on whether he was being fair or being an ass.. but this episode he was a lot more clear to me as being helpful, if very frank, about his criticisms. Messer has grown on me now. I still think there is something about him we don't know yet that will be an issue later though. Mikumo on the other hand... she has, the past 3 episodes... been really mean to Freyja. I get she is motivating her and also working to grow her abilities perhaps, plus being terribly mysterious in general, but she is getting into a habit of almost straight out insulting Freyja each time. Kaname actually noticed it this time too. I wonder if this will play into the mysteries of Mikumo.

Obv Windermere is suffering from the choices they made during their Independence. We still have a lot to learn since they are drip feeding the exposition. I expect eventually we will get an exposition dump episode on it. I feel bad for the green (get it.. cause his drak was green, and he seemed newish, heh) Windermerian pilot who died, but it was cool that we actually saw his face and were able to briefly connect to him rather than him being a faceless mook. Drakken's appear to have regular cockpits with holographic overlays (for some reason). We saw the VF-27 do same thing. Seems like a virtual/augmented reality control set up which has some merit. The 27 pilots we're cyborgs but there is no reason it cannot work for anyone else. 27 also did not use Ex-Gear.. but that was because of their pilots being cyborgs... one can surmise the Drakken doesn't due to it not being a Spacey design (since we now know it is a rebel-originated design). I might take these thoughts to the Mecha/tech thread as well.

Overall, a lot of think on, good show.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

she flies like a book.

i wonder which novel?

[Roy Focker]

Neutral again.

I'm glad the girl band were singing to support things from a "safe" position. That's better than having them dart around with no space suit and singing.

[RedWolf]

You can see the difference between NUNS/Chaos pilots and Aerial Knights on taking lives. For NUNS/Chaos pilots they are professional soldiers but kills still weigh on their conscience particularly if their opponent is being controlled. The Aerial Knights they treat battles as a bloody game. Hermann was spoon feeding the newbie for his first kill . Hermann indulging him and not watching his back got him killed. While Windermereans have a Newtype flash effect their reaction times can only come after the fact. Especially if it is an ace pilot or a genius with Fold Quartz hax.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Good episode. Lots of development in plot and characters. We get to see a different side of messer, which is nice. He seems a bit aloof, and really all about that tough love thing. I think I understand him a bit more, which makes me a bit more accepting of his character.

As for MIrage's genes... IIRC wasn't Max one of the pilots in the air show in ep1? I think that's stated somewhere in his character bio... But he's very skilled and took to combat well, despite having only simulator experience.

[d3v]

Isn't Messer a bit of a hypocrite for warning Chuck about going into the scissors, when he himself always ends up doing it against Keith?

[kalvasflam]

-Forget the others. I'm leaning toward #TeamMakiMaki. Dang girl!

-Guess we have our first animation error with Mirage's gunpod. Ooops.

-I'm not liking the VF-31's boosters. They feel a lot bulkier than the VF-25's and less streamlined.

-Mirage is going to have to make up for her "by-the-book" flying.

-As for Hayate, the 1st kill is always the hardest.

-Mikumo is like Messer.

what was that the 007's second kill said about #2? That it would be considerably easier? We'll see if this applies to Hayate. His main advantage here though is that fully any Windermere forces engaged will have 2/3 drones. If he gets a few more, he'll get over his squeamishness... either that, or he gets good enough to wing the red shirt Aerial Knights, and take them out of the fight without killing them.

As far as Mirage is concerned, may be she is adapted. Because I think Mylene was a better pilot, and she really didn't even fly much. For her, it isn't so much pressure of her forebearers that is getting to her as is her total and utter lack of skills. Literally either of the grandparents would've eaten Hermann and the mook for lunch in about 30 seconds flat. Messer's comments would be exactly confirmation, where as Hayate has the instinct to become like a Hikaru, Mirage has no such instinct, she is kind of like a robot.

Is it just me, or does Mikumo feel just a little like Grace... of course, it would take a lot to fill in the shoe of the might O'Connor.

I guess I never really liked the idea of the sound boosters as part of armored packs very much, this I think is the one thing that makes this series feel a little more like the super robot show. And I don't quite get why those are needed in the first place, where those things projecting the images on the asteroids? But I think the FAST packs over all is supposed to make each Valk look like a tank.

Finally... propellant???? I thought all the Valks had nuclear engines to start with, what's this about propellant?

I like the dynamics of Messer/Arad and the rest of the team, those are clearly the aces in the group, and they fulfill very useful roles right now as a way of firming up what are otherwise rookies. But I'm going out on a limb now and calling a pineapple salad for Messer. I don't necessarily think Keith will do him in. I don't see him surviving the series though. I figure Arad will survive, but not Messer, and if Hermann doesn't buy the farm before episode 20, then something is clearly gone wrong with this series. They have a little too many side characters right now.

Speaking of which, while Bogue and the evil twin brothers were attacking the carrier, what the hell were the rest of Alpha and Beta platoons doing with their thumb up their asses? We saw one of them die, did the rest go down in flames as well?

And are Alpha and Beta platoons basically a bunch of no name red shirts? This makes me wonder about the true fighter complement of the Aether. Because counting all 3 platoons, that's a meager 15 fighters, even the Guantanamo class carry more fighters than that. This is the one thing I kind of also didn't like about Frontier, because it was never very clear how many VF-25s the Quarter carried, You get the feeling it was at least a dozen, but you could never prove that from any of the episodes, and I don't count episode 25 where all of a sudden dozens of VF-25 materialized out of nowhere.

Edited May 9, 2016 by kalvasflam

[azrael]

Isn't Messer a bit of a hypocrite for warning Chuck about going into the scissors, when he himself always ends up doing it against Keith?

Not quite. Messer was reminding him of the side effects on that maneuver. Judging by the playback, Chuck swung into the initial crossing too much which led to Chuck and the opponent crossing too early. Chuck's 2nd turn is now wider and they cross later resulting in Chuck going from attacker to defender.

[Nazareno2012]

Even if valks use nuclear engines, they still need propellant in space to push it forward, due to the Third Law of Motion.

[d3v]

What's up between...

Kaname, Messer and Arad? Could we have another triangle here?

Edited May 9, 2016 by d3v

[azrael]

Finally... propellant???? I thought all the Valks had nuclear engines to start with, what's this about propellant?

Yes. Propellant. The nuclear engines generate heat and electricity. In atmosphere, the air is heated and used as a propellant. Hence, they can fly near indefinitely. In space, there's no air so the need to shoot something out the other end, i.e. actual fuel..

[CC-tan]

this episode was awesome!!

Loved the dogfight. Xao and Theo finally got some screentime, even if it was mainly to support Bogue and dramatic effect of Hayate dancing on the asteroids lol but visually this sequence was AWESOME. New Walkure song, beautiful Valkyrie animation, A+

I'm especially impressed by how well Delta squadron fought, since it was apparently their first time battling in space.

lol at Hayate scratching his VF-31 after Makina commented that his Valk is always in the worst shape when it comes in for repairs.

The new Walkure song actually reminds me a bit of a Nana Mizuki song??

Messer seems more uptight than usual, and reasonably so. Delta squadron is involved in a war now, and he probably feels like he's responsible for keeping the other members of Delta alive. He's just not good at showing it in a warm, fuzzy way.

Mikumo has been throwing HELLA SHADE at Freyja the past couple episodes, although it has been mostly to push Freyja to perform better. That line when she compares Freyja's voice to Heinz's stung really hard. She and Messer parallel each other well as the tough-love mentors.

also, Arad x Kaname. I ship it.

Looking forward to the next one!!

[RedWolf]

Updated list of planets.

Brisingr Globular Cluster:

Al-Shahal- Shahal City

Ragna- Barrette City

Windermere- Scarfell, Old Town of Carslisle

Listania (occupied)

Ebel

Gregor

Randall

Voldor (occupied)

Airberl (occupied)- Ruins of Stig Stania

Anthem III (occupied)

Alfheim

Ionideth

Named Planets in Macross

Airberl (Protoculture ruins- Ruins of Stig Stania, Invaded by Windermere)

Alfhiem

Al Shahal

Anthem III (Invaded by Windermere)

Avalon

Avemaria

Banipal(?, there are coal mines there, so presumably some settlement exists)

Bellfan

Beneb

Cristania

Dahan

Ebel

Eden

Eden 3 (not the same star system)

Elysium (abandoned)

Endebald

Ganymede (also a moon)

Gregor

Hue (Basara visited this planet on a Tousugeki Love Heart video)

Hydra

Ionideth

Iota

Jupiter (multiple satellite cities)

Listania (Invaded by Windermere)

Luna (technically a moon, but hey)

Mars

Neo York

Neptune (satellite city)

New Asia (Declared bio hazard)

Ragna( Homeworld of Ragnans)

Randall

Salvation

Saturn (satellite city)

Sephira (Leon Sasaki's home colony)

Susia

Ouroboros

Varauta

Veil

Venus ("satellite city" orbital colony)

Voldor (Homeworld of Voldorans, Invaded by Windermere)

Vulcan

Windermere (Homeworld of Windermereans)

Edited May 9, 2016 by RedWolf

[d3v]

Did unnamed Winderemere pilot successfully eject? Or was he caught in the explosion?

[azrael]

Did unnamed Winderemere pilot successfully eject? Or was he caught in the explosion?

Caught in explosion.

[Windrider]

He had a name and no he didn't make it.

[BlueMax]

Did unnamed Winderemere pilot successfully eject? Or was he caught in the explosion?

Successful, but did not escape the blast radius, which logically should be fatal

[Einherjar]

Keith said the scar on the planet's surface is their shame.

Yeah they pretty much fraked up. Now they are targeting Protoculture ruin planets. Whether they are colonized by Humans and Zentradi or homeworlds of other Children of the Protoculture.

For a race with a superiority complex they do have an inferiority complex.

Keith's answer is kill them all as they need planets for their people to move to.

On another note politics is preventing NUNS from sending a combine fleet on Windermere. I'm sure there are a lot of factors to consider. From the dimension barrier surrounding Winfermere, the Var syndrome taking over military personnel, to the interpretation of the Galaxy Treaty preventing NUNS from invading planets. Not to mention politicians seeing this as typical planetary disputes.

The nobility may have sold out to the ruinous powers. Probably Tzeentch.

It's worrying that there is no real command structure in this region in space to fight Windermere, and that until Chaos finds out something that will get NUNS' attention the individual planets/fleets are on their own.

No sympathy for the Rune shirt who died. I had the feeling that he was pretty much indoctrinated to whatever propaganda the nobility was spreading on the civilian population.

What are the implications if the antagonists this time around have no redeeming values to justify the peaceful messages the franchise has promoted? And when I mean antagonists, I mean the nobility/aristocrats of Windermere. The rest of their society may be oppressed.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Einherjar

[Nazareno2012]

No sympathy for the Rune shirt who died. I had the feeling that he was pretty much indoctrinated to whatever propaganda the nobility was spreading on the civilian population.

You know that they are in a war, and that Hayate fired to save Mirage's life, so it is justified. He is an enemy combatant after all.

[Einherjar]

You know that they are in a war, and that Hayate fired to save Mirage's life, so it is justified. He is an enemy combatant after all.

The non-Windermerians in the sector are fighting a war. As RedWolf mentioned in another post, the Windermerians' behavior in this conflict by comparison has been very different, possibly due to life expectancy and societal beliefs. In this case, a grunt greener than Hayate gleefully trying to get his first kill in what might as well be a turkey shoot.

[ManhattanProject972]

Messer's like an introverted antisocial Roy Focker.

And I loved how Makina Nakajima went on a tangent about pilots and the way they treat their planes much like old man Nakajima did in Zero

Edited May 9, 2016 by ManhattanProject972

[UN Spacy]

Would've liked to see...

a bit more fight from the Alpha and Beta platoons. They got wiped out pretty easily by Bogue and the twins.

So is there a Charlie or Gamma platoon to take their place?

[Nazareno2012]

The non-Windermerians in the sector are fighting a war. As RedWolf mentioned in another post, the Windermerians' behavior in this conflict by comparison has been very different, possibly due to life expectancy and societal beliefs. In this case, a grunt greener than Hayate gleefully trying to get his first kill in what might as well be a turkey shoot.

Even though, the Aerial Knights are still considered enemy combatants by the laws of warfare as they are fighting in uniform if the Geneva Conventions are still valid at 2067, as I think they are.

[Marzan]

The best piece of hardware this episode was Makina's low slung pants. I will fight you guys on this point

[UN Spacy]

Was the

ejection system for that noobs Draken damaged due to Hayate's fire?

[kensei]

The beam gunpod for the Siegfried seems to be standard and stored in the weapons pack mounted at the back of the VF. In the OP1, you can see at the end of it Hayate's Siegfried holding it, and the storage space on the weapons pod exposed.

Man I've loving the Siegfried now. Arad going in with double knives. The weapons and defense layout on the arms are so cool, defend with the PPBS, hack slash and stab with the knives, shoot from the forearms if necessary, with the beam gunpod independently tracking from the arms. Fully sick.

At one awkward point when most of the them were in the attic on the restaurant, I thought that Reina was poking Makina's breast. Woah.

And those Chaos bridge bunnies can certainly put away the beer.

Wondering about Messer's pre combat ritual. What's he holding if he is holding anything at all?

Seems to be a lot of protocol tureen artefacts in the areas where Windemere is operating.

Edited May 9, 2016 by kensei

[d3v]

Was the

ejection system for that noobs Draken damaged due to Hayate's fire?

Watching it again, it seems he just ejected a bit too late.

[spanner]

episode 6 was pretty good! this may sound a little silly to some but I found watching Delta at about 90% playback speed helps keep track of the subtitles and still keep an eye on the action! and the characters voices don't sound slow or slurred at all.

much easier to watch.