Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 5 - READ 1st POST

[Seto Kaiba]

While it seems apples are the only export Windermere leading to a trade imbalance, I assume, I wonder if the events of Macross Frontier has affected them economically.

Luca said whoever has the monopoly on Fold Quartz rules the galaxy. It could be with Protoculture ruins having Fold Quartz Windermrere is expecting a massive windfall making them an economical and political power house in the NUN. Ouroboros while having Fold Quartz in its ruins can be unaccessible for years.

Then Frontier receives a planet full Fold Quartz given by the Vajra. Either they have a monopoly on Fold Quartz flooding the market or the NUN restricts Fold Quartz trade as it is so weaponize.

Goodbye Windermere's dream of being great thus the monarchy xenophobes begin a revolution to kick out the NUN as in their point of view they had broken promises. Also seeing a bunch of cyborgs try to rule the galaxy offended their pride.

From the description given by Captain Johnson and Major Molders, it seems like Windermere may be in the same "kind of inaccessible" straits as Uroboros... he did say it was surrounded by fold faults. (One has to wonder if the fold faults are there by accident or design... to keep others out, or to keep something the Protoculture left on the planet in...)

Edited May 4, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[ManhattanProject972]

What if the fold distortion surrounding the planet was a side effect or cause of that super dimensional resonance device or whatever they called it that resulted in the armistice?

[Product9]

Maybe Windermere people would live longer if they stopped trying to surprise kill one another.

So basically certain characters like Michel and Brera won't ever be mentioned or cameo in any future Macross series because each of them died in either the tv series or movie continuities?

Did Brera die? He was aboard the Vajra Frontier when it folded away with Alto.

I know he took an explosion to the face but his -27 was in battroid mode, and he's a cyborg, so...

[Isamu Starkiller]

The real question now is if there's a war will there be an apple shortage in the rest of the cluster

No apples means no ap'ju!!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

What if the fold distortion surrounding the planet was a side effect or cause of that super dimensional resonance device or whatever they called it that resulted in the armistice?

To do that, it'd have to be a dimension weapon beyond anything covered by the current definition of the term... as it stands, that term covers super dimension energy cannons and dimension eater weaponry. Neither of those would produce something like a fold fault, let alone one capable of isolating a planetary system. I'd suspect there's some ancient Protoculture technology on the planet that is creating the fault.

[Einherjar]

You know, if Messer is going to give Hayate crap for not acting like a professional, it would only be fair for him to treat the Walkure the same way. For instance, Mikumo possibly breaking Ragnan public decency laws.

[ManhattanProject972]

You know, if Messer is going to give Hayate crap for not acting like a professional, it would only be fair for him to treat the Walkure the same way. For instance, Mikumo possibly breaking Ragnan public decency laws.

Well most Ragnans walk around half naked if Chuck's sister is anything to go by.

[Einherjar]

Mikumo is also a celebrity, and who knows how bad future TMZ could be like in half a century.

Damn, or an analogue of Hibiki Kanzaki.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Einherjar

[d3v]

Milia's ears were not nearly as pointed, and nearly as.... HORIZONTAL, that's it, that's what's so different about Mirage... HORIZONTAL EARS.

MUTANT... yep, that's what she is, a mutant

Going back to the culture thing, I do agree that Frontier was a little about technology going amok, but there were also aspects of perverting culture, when Sheryl and then Ranka was used by Grace. How else would you term the Minmay attack on NUNS in episode 24.

As I've stated, they've just been trying to make the ears more prominent since Frontier, most likely because people barely ever noticed it in Plus, 7 and DYRL.

[RedWolf]

From the description given by Captain Johnson and Major Molders, it seems like Windermere may be in the same "kind of inaccessible" straits as Uroboros... he did say it was surrounded by fold faults. (One has to wonder if the fold faults are there by accident or design... to keep others out, or to keep something the Protoculture left on the planet in...)

However I suspect it is an effect of whatever dimensional weapon Windermere used. Keith keeps mentioning they are out of time that it is possible their planet is in danger as a result thus this desperation of taking over planets in the cluster.

Most likely similar to the advanced arsenal planet on the Varauta system Windermere messed with something they souldn't have.

We've seen both biological and artificial Protoculture barrier systems before in Macross 7. Also somehow Fasces got their hands on a Protodevlin barrier system.

[JB0]

Actually, he increased the fan power while lowering the temperature. Probably to simulate feeling the wind in their faces, similar to what Sharon did to Isamu's YF-19 in Plus.

Honestly? I thought he turned the AC down for Freyja's comfort. She's apparently from a dang cold place, and I am PRETTY sure Ragna is far outside her typical comfort zone. Lower the humidity and temperature, and for a little bit she can feel like she's back on Windermere.

[Product9]

It was clearly for the feel of the 'wind', since that is such a big thing for both Hayate and Freyja.

Evidenced by their hair moving, else why animate it?

[sharky]

Ah, right. I'm thinkin' too twentieth-century with physical consoles.

In that case... party on, Freyja.

I did a little experiment in my car. Without the steering wheel in the way, I could extend my arms all the way out and do the Freyja cockpit dance moves just fine. It was worth finding out even with the awkward stare from the car next to me sitting at the light.

Well, I had the dang song playing in the car. I was compelled to try it out.

Edited May 5, 2016 by sharky

[Dangard Ace]

Team Freyja this go around. Tsundere characters always seem to win in Macross Universe. Go underdog! Go Freyja!

[BChoinski]

I wonder if it's because contact was made with Winderemere when they already had a well established, medieval or even renaissance level civilization, whereas contact with Ragna (and Zola) was made when their civilizations were less established.

Milia had pointy ears in DYRL as well.

As I stated earlier, Zentraedi have had pointy ears since then. Look closely at Guld and Mylene and you'll notice that they have them too.

I meant retconned from original SDFM, given the final wedding scene there (which was not in DYRL). But yea, after DYRL the ears were in as a marker for Zentraedi blood.

I do like that they went with the DYRL meeting instead of the Series one... falling for a one's match or equal is cooler with Mecha instead of that lame knife fight.

[sharky]

Team Freyja this go around. Tsundere characters always seem to win in Macross Universe. Go underdog! Go Freyja!

I so want to touch her rune. I'm such a perv.

I do like that they went with the DYRL meeting instead of the Series one... falling for a one's match or equal is cooler with Mecha instead of that lame knife fight.

Actually they first met face to face going head to head on a tabletop video game. Which is the way all young lovers met in the 80s. It was totally awesome, dude.

[Zinjo]

I think someone from the Macross Speaker Podcast mentioned that cockpit dimensions (or rather dimensions inside a structure) are usually two times the size they would be in reality and that Kawamori was proud that he was able to reduce the inside of the VF-1 cockpit to 1.5 times the actual size. So the inside of the VF-31 is probably bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.

TARDIS valks???

[Windrider]

Did Brera die? He was aboard the Vajra Frontier when it folded away with Alto.

I know he took an explosion to the face but his -27 was in battroid mode, and he's a cyborg, so...

Brera died in the second movie. He never came out and was never seen again.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Windrider

[kalvasflam]

Brera died in the second movie. He never came out and was never seen again.

Oddly, I always though of Macross related movies as in-universe entertainment or propaganda. But that's never been confirmed one way or the other.

BTW, I liked the TV version of Max x Milia, simply because the movie version was less developed, essentially "hey, we just tried to kill each other, let's have sex now." Yeah, the knife fight was a bit cheesy, but hey, so was the entire premise of an ace pilot hellbent on revenge that she went commando style into enemy territory. But no more so than Milia deciding not to roll over in DYRL and squishing the pathetic miclone that beat her in mecha combat.

[Aisha Blanchette]

I've come (thanks to Kawamori) to take both the movies and the TV versions as two version of the same story, for better or for worst. Which means... both are equally valid and full of propaganda. Which means the true story is somewhere in between the two. So obviously elements from both DYRL and TV Macross would have to be true. That's why my personal interpretation of how Macross Frontier ends is that no one other than Alto dies. Yep, I take away from the movie that Alto get's obliterated by the Macross' Cannon spam. The world was a better place following~.

What? I hate Alto... I wanted him dead and that gave me a satisfying ending of the turd dying.

That aside, I think literally though that Kawamori wants by blending scenes of both DYRL and the TV series to remind us that both are true and that the series we are watching are actually series with in the series and therefore... romanticized and fictional... and not real and yet some elements are supposed to be and therefore what we are watching is a series in a series with in a serie-... oh dear... It's Macrossception. That's what he's going for! *cough*

Either way, maybe what we are seeing is that the real event is a combination of the two?

Personally I like to imagine for the true relationship is that... They fought and Milia saw little tiny Max and didn't squash him, but instead secretly followed him back to the Macross where they videogame dated before having a knife fight during which that Max realized that Milia was the giant that didn't squish him. Yeah, I know it totally piece meals both DYRL and the TV Series by saying that's how it happened, but... both are canon. So it's got to be an in between, especially if they are showing us a mixture of both now. So perhaps that's what Mirage is alluding to now, to help kind of clue us all in on that? Or maybe she's so caught up in a fake love story version herself and only knows that about her grandparents.

[Windrider]

You know, if Messer is going to give Hayate crap for not acting like a professional, it would only be fair for him to treat the Walkure the same way. For instance, Mikumo possibly breaking Ragnan public decency laws.

Messer has no jurisdiction over Walkure members. Why do you think he told Freyja that he would report the incident to Kaname? He took it upon himself to straighten up Hayate since Arad doesn't give a crap. And its not just because Hayate was acting unprofessionally but he wasn't taking his role and the whole situation seriously. And what the heck are you talking about Mikumo breaking public decency laws? Don't expect Ragna to have the same laws like the US.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Windrider

[RedWolf]

Messer has no jurisdiction over Walkure members. Why do you think he told Freyja that he would report the incident to Kaname? He took it upon himself to straighten up Hayate since Arad doesn't give a crap. And its not just because Hayate was acting unprofessionally but he wasn't taking his role and the whole situation seriously. And what the heck are you talking about Mikumo breaking public decency laws? Don't expect Ragna to have the same laws like the US.

Thing is Kaname would approve of it as it would lead to the stabilization of Freyja's Fold Receptor Factor.

Which would make Messer look like a fool. His anti-social tendencies has made him vulnerable to Var.

Thing is Arad has made a team of misfits Messer included.

[Seto Kaiba]

Thing is Kaname would approve of it as it would lead to the stabilization of Freyja's Fold Receptor Factor.

Which would make Messer look like a fool. His anti-social tendencies has made him vulnerable to Var.

Well, perhaps... but as the de jure leader of Walkure, I'd wager she and/or someone further up Delta Platoon's chain of command would still rip into Hayate (and likely Freyja as well) for not clearing their little night flight with command. After all, they were technically on a war footing and under a standby order at that point, so the scolding would probably have taken the form "good idea, terrible execution". Messer would've been vindicated for ripping into them like that, though he'd sustain a bit of a puncture to his inflated ego by having to hear that Hayate's idea was a good one.

[UN Spacy]

It's gonna be f'n epic once that have to use the entire Macross Elysion for a mission.

[Raptor One]

Yup, my hype levels are gonna be through the roof when that happens

Edited May 5, 2016 by Raptor One

[Bariaburu Faita]

Producer Kawamori was specific that it was the VF-1, and other mecha from that era, like SBB Yamato that had larger interior volume than would be physically possible. Later VF should be closer to what external dimensions would indicate. but as always animator errors and the needs of the plot could change that.

I think someone from the Macross Speaker Podcast mentioned that cockpit dimensions (or rather dimensions inside a structure) are usually two times the size they would be in reality and that Kawamori was proud that he was able to reduce the inside of the VF-1 cockpit to 1.5 times the actual size. So the inside of the VF-31 is probably bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.

[Product9]

Brera died in the second movie. He never came out and was never seen again.

That's because the ship he was aboard folded away to parts unknown. Of course he wasn't seen at the end of the movie - he ended up wherever Alto ended up.

[Windrider]

Thing is Kaname would approve of it as it would lead to the stabilization of Freyja's Fold Receptor Factor.

Which would make Messer look like a fool. His anti-social tendencies has made him vulnerable to Var.

Thing is Arad has made a team of misfits Messer included.

We really don't know that yet. Freyja definitely became relaxed and cheered up but we have no idea if it affected in stabilizing her fold receptor.

It also doesn't change that Hayate was still out of line for unauthorize use of his VF and tagging Freyja along with him in a time of war. I doubt Messer being anti-social has anything to do with being susceptible to Var but its probably because his killer instinct and thirst for combat like the Zentradi soldiers since they were easily subject to it.

Well I do agree with you though that Delta Platoon are bunch of misfits. Makes me wonder what the heck Arad was thinking in recruiting them.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Windrider

[Einherjar]

Remember, generations have been following Roy Focker's playbook for effective squadron management. Not as much alcohol here, though. WWRD?

Edited May 6, 2016 by Einherjar

[Mr March]

I wonder if it's because contact was made with Winderemere when they already had a well established, medieval or even renaissance level civilization, whereas contact with Ragna (and Zola) was made when their civilizations were less established.

It's possible. That might explain why Windermereans are more likely to be disgruntled or rebel, perhaps because they were more educated and in more of a position to know the truth of any situation they entered into with the N.U.G.?

[mickyg]

Am I understanding this correctly? The Aerial Knights are operating from Windermere? And there's this Fold barrier thing happening? What exactly does a Fold barrier prevent then? I thought it would prohibit craft coming in and out. Is it not Windermere that has been shown as their base?

Slightly confused....

[eko.prasetiyo]

It's possible. That might explain why Windermereans are more likely to be disgruntled or rebel, perhaps because they were more educated and in more of a position to know the truth of any situation they entered into with the N.U.G.?

or perhaps they already has planet wide government as kingdom and dont like UNG republic/presidency form of government.

[d3v]

Am I understanding this correctly? The Aerial Knights are operating from Windermere? And there's this Fold barrier thing happening? What exactly does a Fold barrier prevent then? I thought it would prohibit craft coming in and out. Is it not Windermere that has been shown as their base?

Slightly confused....

It's pretty obvious that it's not meant to prevent craft from coming and going. I mean, if it did, then we wouldn't have a show in the first place as Freyja wouldn't have been able to leave.

It's probably more like a localized fold fault around the planet in that it prevents spacecraft from folding in close to the planet, so that doing a Max and just folding in low to the ground and dropping reaction weaponry is likely impossible, but normal travel isn't.

[Graham]

That's what I figure too.

[ManhattanProject972]

Well I do agree with you though that Delta Platoon are bunch of misfits. Makes me wonder what the heck Arad was thinking in recruiting them.

Well to win an unconventional war you need unconventional people.