Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 5 - READ 1st POST

[RDX17]

Twice now in two different episodes I've pondered the idea that Messer might be an inside spy or something based on his attitude. But I could be wrong, I just don't like him.

Something is definitely going on with Messer. He was clearly affected by Heinz's song in episode 4 but doesn't mention it when the Walkure and Hyate discuss hearing it.

I don't think he's a spy, but maybe he'll be infected with Var Syndrome as others here have said. This could lead to his death at the hands of Hyate or Mirage or he could alternately be saved by them and the Walkure and perhaps find himself a bit humbled by the experience.

Whatever the case, I'm on board for the rest of the series at this point: solid animation, interesting characters and story, along with some fun music.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

reposting as a reminder

#don'tleaveteammirage

[d3v]

[hevangel2]

This is Tenjin Hidetaka's painting isn't it?

I want to see a phone call of Milia checking in on her granddaughter form across the galaxy

Call Lady-M

[d3v]

Call Lady-M

What does Dr. Chiba have to do with all this?

[Windrider]

I wonder wether vajra can be affected by var? besides, where are they now?

if winderemerean can control vajra, thats huge problem

Probably not. Vajra biology is far too different as they don't have brains. To control Vajra the singer needs to be infected with the V-type virus like Ranka was. Var seems to only affect humanoid/Protoculture-seeded races.

[seti88]

reposting as a reminder

#don'tleaveteammirage

How can you even consider leaving?

[starla]

team mirage all the way!

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

5QnhcyO.jpg

How can you even consider leaving?

team mirage all the way!

=)

[crazysteve]

Everything Messer says seems to be right. Hayate antics is bound to get someone killed before he learns from Messer. Chances are Messer will be the one that dies.

My gut tells me it's going to be Mirage. I fixate a lot on what the meaning of a broken trinangle could be. I think Hayate's going to break the triangle by getting Mirage killed.

I think there've been a couple clues. Messer's warnings are a big one. I interpret the movie image they used this episode of bloody Milla as foreshadowing Mirage's death. And there's kind of a reverse precedent in Frontier. With TV Frontier it was Klan who lost her human love, in Delta I think the human will lose his Meltran love.

If Messer dies I think it'll be Kakizake style.

Edited May 3, 2016 by crazysteve

[Mr March]

I am wondering about the Windermere fleet. Do they even have one? Because if everything is about using VAR to control someone else's military, then they are not going to get very far. The little boy who keep singing is going to keel over at some point, and all of a sudden, no more VAR controlled puppets.

And speaking of VAR, I'm still trying to get an understanding of the VAR, what does it actually do? it makes people nuts for a little while, they can be controlled for a while, but is that effect permanent, until the Walkure undoes the damage... if so, they better assassinate the Walkure just as soon as humanly possible.

I really liked this episode because of the backstory, wish actually there was more of that than Hayate's showboating... having the mercat would smack him around a little more would do him a world of good. As for the Aerial Knights, well, the Draken are cool, but too many hero units, I'd like to see more of the Windemere military in action. So, as far as I can tell, Delta squad is under another company like another SMS. They clearly aren't military, so basically we have a mercenary group fighting a bunch of separatists (or terrorists); both of whom happen to have access to some heavy weapons.

From the way Roid talks, I'm not sure if he wants to go all that far. He has spoken about securing the local Globular Cluster in perpetuity, which makes me think that maybe he doesn't really want to conquer the galaxy, so long as he gets to control every colony and group within Windermere's immediate sphere of influence. I'd also be curious to understand the extent of the Windermere military, since it's doubtful they would ever be a threat without the Var syndrome to augment their forces far beyond what they would otherwise be capable of fielding.

I'm also uncertain exactly how the Var syndrome works, but I think it's being stated in this episode that can be used not only to enrage, incite and disrupt, but perhaps also to lull, persuade or domesticate. In some ways I think it possible the Var syndrome is being written in the show as a means to comment about the more manipulative elements of culture. Windermere is using music and culture to control and manipulate others, while Walkure is using music and culture to free others from that enthralling force. I feel that Macross Delta is trying to show us the advantages and disadvantages of culture, particularly popular culture and pop music.

I was also thrilled to finally get some confirmation about the Xaos group and their standing as a private military contractor. They've been presented very much as an SMS-like organization since the beginning, but we were never told anything about them or where they fit within the Ragna political/military structure. They were just there to serve as the platform for Walkure. At least now it appears they will be formalizing into a war-time contract and all the restrictions that incurs. Hence why the Delta Squadron folks were told to make their final choices prior to contract renegotiation with the Ragna government.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mr March

[Isamu Starkiller]

My gut tells me it's going to be Mirage. I fixate a lot on what the meaning of a broken trinangle could be. I think Hayate's going to break the triangle by getting Mirage killed.

I think there've been a couple clues. Messer's warnings are a big one. I interpret the movie image they used this episode of bloody Milla as foreshadowing Mirage's death. And there's kind of a reverse precedent in Frontier. With TV Frontier it was Klan who lost her human love, in Delta I think the human will lose his Meltran love.

If Messer dies I think it'll be Kakizake style.

That's an interesting theory, I have noticed there are things in Delta that seem like hints towards Opposites attracting...the most obvious being Hayate and Mirage...although Hayate is completely oblivious at this point. I'm also loving the juxtaposition of humanity being seen as the invading force (threat to their culture) to the Windmereans. As others have mentioned I hope there is a connection between the Windmereans and M0, Sarah Nome and the Mayan Legends!

[David Hingtgen]

My gut tells me it's going to be Mirage. I fixate a lot on what the meaning of a broken trinangle could be. I think Hayate's going to break the triangle by getting Mirage killed.

I think there've been a couple clues. Messer's warnings are a big one. I interpret the movie image they used this episode of bloody Milla as foreshadowing Mirage's death. And there's kind of a reverse precedent in Frontier. With TV Frontier it was Klan who lost her human love, in Delta I think the human will lose his Meltran love.

If Messer dies I think it'll be Kakizake style.

Then Milia will come out of retirement, get a red VF-31, and seek revenge.

[ManhattanProject972]

Messed is going to be possessedl after in the series and be calmed down be his teammates but not before he kills one of them under the influence. My guess it's either going to be Kaname or Reina or Makina.

[guyxxed]

I'm definitely seeing a "heroic sacrifice" in the team's future, and Messer and Kaname would be my first picks for the one to go. I could definitely see Kaname jumping into the line of fire to stop a possessed Messer, that feels like a Macross thing to do.

[tapoop]

I am actually curious about Mirage when she mention millia and MAX.

Milla and MAX only have daughters...why would she kept their last name?

I suspect Mirage is bioengineer'd clone like original meitradi.

I don't think she never saw them either from the way she describe them consider Macross 7 disappeared (as mention on frontier)

[d3v]

I am actually curious about Mirage when she mention millia and MAX.

Milla and MAX only have daughters...why would she kept their last name?

I suspect Mirage is bioengineer'd clone like original meitradi.

I don't think she never saw them either from the way she describe them consider Macross 7 disappeared (as mention on frontier)

I don't think that 7 disappeared, FB7 seems to indicate that the events of 7 were suppressed, but we know that they were still around, especially since I believe that Fire Bomber was able to release new material.

[Rbstr]

I am actually curious about Mirage when she mention millia and MAX.

Milla and MAX only have daughters...why would she kept their last name?

Why wouldn't she? It's one of the most famous, prestigious names in the galaxy.

[kalvasflam]

From the way Roid talks, I'm not sure if he wants to go all that far. He has spoken about securing the local Globular Cluster in perpetuity, which makes me think that maybe he doesn't really want to conquer the galaxy, so long as he gets to control every colony and group within Windermere's immediate sphere of influence. I'd also be curious to understand the extent of the Windermere military, since it's doubtful they would ever be a threat without the Var syndrome to augment their forces far beyond what they would otherwise be capable of fielding.

I'm also uncertain exactly how the Var syndrome works, but I think it's being stated in this episode that can be used not only to enrage, incite and disrupt, but perhaps also to lull, persuade or domesticate. In some ways I think it possible the Var syndrome is being written in the show as a means to comment about the more manipulative elements of culture. Windermere is using music and culture to control and manipulate others, while Walkure is using music and culture to free others from that enthralling force. I feel that Macross Delta is trying to show us the advantages and disadvantages of culture, particularly popular culture and pop music.

I was also thrilled to finally get some confirmation about the Xaos group and their standing as a private military contractor. They've been presented very much as an SMS-like organization since the beginning, but we were never told anything about them or where they fit within the Ragna political/military structure. They were just there to serve as the platform for Walkure. At least now it appears they will be formalizing into a war-time contract and all the restrictions that incurs. Hence why the Delta Squadron folks were told to make their final choices prior to contract renegotiation with the Ragna government.

I think in some ways, Frontier already did a fairly decent job of showing the disadvantages of culture. Well, at least in terms of how Grace was able to manipulate both Ranka and Sheryl for her own needs. But this is different in that there is a different faction in the open doing this work. I wonder if there will be some weird conspiracy along the way, I actually hope not, but that would add intrigue to the situation. Now that the war is on, hopefully there will be snippets of details of other actions, unlike Frontier, where the action was surrounding the ship, in Delta, there are multiple fixed locations. And there is opportunity to show a more expansive macross universe.

Finally, what's with Mirage's ears? Did she have them surgically altered or was her father a blood elf?

[d3v]

IIRC, in Japanese culture, the husband sometimes takes the wife's last name if the latter is from a prominent family who's name holds power. Surely the Jenius family would count enough that anyone marrying one of Max and Milia's daughters would instead marry into their family and take on their name.

Finally, what's with Mirage's ears? Did she have them surgically altered or was her father a blood elf?

Elf-like ears have been a trait of those with Zentraedi heritage since at least DYRL. It's just become more prominent from Frontier onwards. Edited May 3, 2016 by d3v

[kalvasflam]

Elf-like ears have been a trait of those with Zentraedi heritage since at least DYRL. It's just become more prominent from Frontier onwards.

Oh yeah, just looked at an image of Klan, you're right, I just never noticed until now, seems like Mirage's ears are more pointy than Klan's... may be it's evolution.

[Zinjo]

Familiarity is one reason for the use of the SV-52. We don't know who all was on the Megaroad, however it could quite well be former Anti-UN forces, SV otaku, or a dozen other valid reason such as even economic. We know for example with Frontier why they have the Macross Quarter and a whole squadron of the VF-25 Messiahs was due to SMS financing the fleet. Following Space War I, we have to consider that many of the Megaroads were sent out in less than ideal circumstances and with less back up than the later Macross # fleets. This means they can and will take what they could get to provide additional back up. Not to mention Another thing to consider is they probably left with a few SV-52's but along the way developed new fighters. We've seen such to a degree in Macross 7 and Macross Frontier, where each fleet takes existing designs and fleshes them out to suit themselves and/or develop new ones of their own such as Macross Galaxy with the VF-27 using the data they get from NUNS. But all things point that the ship that arrived at Windermere was using SV variants. Which we have already seen one other then the Draken III thanks to the photographs show in this episode. So we are well aware of older SV's existing that aren't 51/52's. Which this shows that they have been producing other SV's for some time.

In fact everything points to the fact that once the Megaroad arrived they shared their SV's with the Windermerian's since they had officially shown to have a flying squadron of their Knights in older SV/VF's. Which means then once they had their war of independence they usurped the production lines and kept them for themselves and continued to further develop them on their own. My point being that in all likely hood, the Megaroad that arrived on Windermere was primarily using SV variants and not the usual VF's. Thus the production lines for the Draken and it's ilk all hailed from the SV-51's, giving us a contiguous progression of two separate transformable mecha fighter lines. The VF's and their YF prototypes and then the rival line of the SV's of which the Draken III is current reigning king of. I will throw a guess and say that the fighters we see in the photographs are probably the previous SV unit the Draken II. But in all likely hood, Windermere colonizing Megaroad was more SV predominant than VF.

However, it may be nothing more than idiological, the Windermerian's may just have simply chosen to accept the SV nomenclature for no other reason than the fact that it represented Anti-UN sentiments. Of course then though this implies that they bothered to read up on Earth history some how and chose to purposely go with such an vague obscure reason...

A well thought out theory, but the circumstances really don't support it.

We do not yet know how the Windemere came to possess "what appears to be" an early SV derivative, but I am very doubtful any Megaroad fleet would be out fitted with 1st or 2nd generation SV fighters when they were building VF-1 and VF-4 fighters en-mass at the time already. Regardless of the possible political ideologies from members of the inhabitants in the fleet.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[d3v]

Oh yeah, just looked at an image of Klan, you're right, I just never noticed until now, seems like Mirage's ears are more pointy than Klan's... may be it's evolution.

It's most likely just art style.

That said, they've been trying to make the ears more prominent, especially since people don't even notice that characters like Guld and Mylene had them.

A well thought out theory, but the circumstances really don't support it.

We do not yet know how the Windemere came to possess "what appears to be" an early SV derivative, but I am very doubtful any Megaroad fleet would be out fitted with 1st or 2nd generation SV fighters when they were building VF-1 and VF-4 fighters en-mass at the time all ready. Regardless of the possible political ideologies of the inhabitants.

That "early SV derivative" also has what seems to be forward fusealage similar to later YF-24 derivatives, so that may be a more plausible route for its development. Edited May 3, 2016 by d3v

[Dash]

I am actually curious about Mirage when she mention millia and MAX.

Milla and MAX only have daughters...why would she kept their last name?

I suspect Mirage is bioengineer'd clone like original meitradi.

I don't think she never saw them either from the way she describe them consider Macross 7 disappeared (as mention on frontier)

Well then explain the Nome girls, Mao married a guy and had Sally who still used the Nome last name, then Sally married a guy and had Sheryl who is still a Nome.

Like d3v already mentioned, in Japan sometimes the man is the one to marry into his wife's family and take her last name, so I'd go with that as an explanation, besides we already know from Kawamori himself that Mirage is Miranda's daughter.

About the Macross 7 fleet, it didn't disappear it's just that the information about the protodeviln confict was suppressed for the general public, in one of Frontier's episodes members of SMS mentioned the protodeviln and Bobby compares what Ranka is doing to what Basara did, not to mention that Fire Bomber released a new album in 2060

[sharky]

This is Tenjin Hidetaka's painting isn't it?I want to see a phone call of Milia checking in on her granddaughter form across the galaxy

I did take note that the scenes depicting M&M are the DYRL cannon. Edited May 3, 2016 by sharky

[Zinjo]

That "early SV derivative" also has what seems to be forward fusealage similar to later YF-24 derivatives, so that may be a more plausible route for its development.

Entirely possible, but the canopy really lends itself to the SV series of old.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[hulagu]

I did take note that the scenes depicting M&M are the DYRL cannon.

The wedding pic however is SDF version, so who knows.

[anime52k8]

The best...

[kalvasflam]

I did take note that the scenes depicting M&M are the DYRL cannon.

I always thought DRYL and Frontier movies weren't canon, but NUNS propaganda.

I seem to recall that the DRYL is a movie released in universe for the launch of Megaroad I, and Frontier movies are just NUNS attempt to cover up things that went weird in the actual Frontier universe...

As said before the Max/Milia courtship in fighter combat sounds much better than having one stalking the other only to realize the other wants to gut him with a knife.

[505thAirborne]

#teammiragetraitors

Nice one dude!!

[Alberich]

reposting as a reminder

#don'tleaveteammirage

The "genki" girl never made it for me, so I will stay with my initial choice a.k.a. Mirage

So...

[d3v]

I always thought DRYL and Frontier movies weren't canon, but NUNS propaganda.

I seem to recall that the DRYL is a movie released in universe for the launch of Megaroad I, and Frontier movies are just NUNS attempt to cover up things that went weird in the actual Frontier universe...

As said before the Max/Milia courtship in fighter combat sounds much better than having one stalking the other only to realize the other wants to gut him with a knife.

As per SK, both Frontier TV series and movies have the same level of canonicity. Actually, IIRC, everything Frontier related has the same level of canonicity now, which, while frustrating for some fans, allows them to pull from wherever they ant to without issue. Edited May 4, 2016 by d3v

[Windrider]

As per SK, both Frontier TV series and movies have the same level of canonicity. Actually, IIRC, everything Frontier related has the same level of canonicity now, which, while frustrating for some fans, allows them to pull from wherever they ant to without issue.

So basically certain characters like Michel and Brera won't ever be mentioned or cameo in any future Macross series because each of them died in either the tv series or movie continuities?

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

The "genki" girl never made it for me, so I will stay with my initial choice a.k.a. Mirage

So...

[sharky]

The wedding pic however is SDF version, so who knows.

True. I guess since there wasn't time for a marriage scene in DYRL the marriage cannon comes from SDF for sure.