Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 5 - READ 1st POST

[Lorindor]

The first half was pretty decent; it actually moved the plot forward. But the second half was just bad. Freyja's song felt like a shoehorned in musical number. Usually in Macross, the music accompanies the action and story that unfolds. Here it was clearly just to fill out time. And why the song used in the ending credit? It's not like we haven't already heard and will hear it several times throughout the series as is... That was just lazy.

[Windrider]

All I can say about Messer in this episode is good initiative, poor execution... He was right, however the way he went about addressing it was overly dramatic, and equally irresponsible.

All Hayate needs is a good ass kicking... Maybe Captain Johnson could give him some "Remedial Lessons", or get some "Blast Fence Training" from Arad or Messer.

I don't quite fully agree with you on that. It was indeed good initiative on Messer's part but his execution was probably the best approach for someone as irresponsible as Hayate. I don't see how it was overly dramatic or even irresponsible of Messer especially when no one has stepped up to discipline Hayate and put him in his place. How can he be given a good ass kicking when Arad has given him a free pass not to follow orders? That gives him the perfect excuse not to do anything unless its by his own volition. Messer's tactic seems like to get under Hayate's skin to show him how much he's taking his role too lightly and being a liability to the Delta platoon with his antics. So far it seems to be working.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Windrider

[Sandman]

Just got around to seeing Episode 5 today and it just confirmed a lot of what I had been thinking and what other's had helped point out. It also means that thankfully they are keeping a consistency for the galactic map. The only problem is that of course is that Delta doesn't chart any route from Eden only Earth. So we don't see the Galaxy Fleet's route, but we can make suppositions on where it had been based on Frontier's and well considering the ending of Frontier we can at least determine where Battle Galaxy was last at.

But the Megaroad landing on Windermere further gives me the confirmation that perhaps that ship had SV-51's/52's instead of VF-1's.

Well I did make a supposition that it was the Macross 3's fleet that landed on Ragna, but I looked back at my previous post and realized I kept saying Macross 2. Wow, proof I need to double check my posts. But anyways, it looks like I was pretty spot on with it being one of the low numbered Macross Fleets, but my idea of Macross 3 doesn't work out since rechecking everything made me remember that Macross 3 arrived at Eden 3 and unless Ragna was dubbed Eden 3 at some point, I am wrong there. (At least according to the Macross Compendium: http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2040 ) That aside... Paying attention to the winding routes in Frontier you can see the fleets that shoots off through the mid core out towards the Brisingr Globular Cluster, rewatching that scene a few times helped. Which is cool that there is a degree of consistency... Though one reason I haven't made any new posts since I first brought up the idea is because I've been working on my rough maps and trying to figure out the odd new additional fleet lines that don't match between Frontier and Delta... anyways here's my new maps. With a correction to the Macross 7 Fleet's position as well. But I still haven't figured out some things as you can tell.

It's hard trying to chart and map all the fleets with so little info and with my poor quality screen shots. But I think this is pretty darn close to correct.

Edit Note: Upon looking at Alberich's I was reminded I totally forgot Megaroad 13 and was adding the lost 5th fleet in when it shouldn't be. I'll have to go back and re-edit my maps! Alberich good call on Megaroad 13, there. You were right and I was wrong... which means I was initially right about the Macross 7th fleet's location. So I went back and edited the maps...

Some of the paths the fleets took seem a little weird.

#teammiragetraitors

Something about the way Frejya is animated throughout the series seems weird to me. I can't place my finger on what it is though. It's just her character and no one else.

[MisaForever]

Some of the paths the fleets took seem a little weird.

Something about the way Frejya is animated throughout the series seems weird to me. I can't place my finger on what it is though. It's just her character and no one else.

Which I love honestly. She's a nice change of character and different enough from Ranka.

[Roy Focker]

Everything Messer says seems to be right. Hayate antics is bound to get someone killed before he learns from Messer. Chances are Messer will be the one that dies.

[kalvasflam]

I am wondering about the Windermere fleet. Do they even have one? Because if everything is about using VAR to control someone else's military, then they are not going to get very far. The little boy who keep singing is going to keel over at some point, and all of a sudden, no more VAR controlled puppets.

And speaking of VAR, I'm still trying to get an understanding of the VAR, what does it actually do? it makes people nuts for a little while, they can be controlled for a while, but is that effect permanent, until the Walkure undoes the damage... if so, they better assassinate the Walkure just as soon as humanly possible.

I really liked this episode because of the backstory, wish actually there was more of that than Hayate's showboating... having the mercat would smack him around a little more would do him a world of good. As for the Aerial Knights, well, the Draken are cool, but too many hero units, I'd like to see more of the Windemere military in action. So, as far as I can tell, Delta squad is under another company like another SMS. They clearly aren't military, so basically we have a mercenary group fighting a bunch of separatists (or terrorists); both of whom happen to have access to some heavy weapons.

[Zinjo]

But the Megaroad landing on Windermere further gives me the confirmation that perhaps that ship had SV-51's/52's instead of VF-1's.

I doubt that.

I equate it to US Cavalry having Winchester repeaters vs the Native Americans using muskets. Yes the Natives were given rifles, but they were nothing like a Winchester...

I am however, warming up to the idea that Messer is indeed the Windemere spy. He had no compunction killing Var affected human pilots and being a buy the book kinda guy is one thing, but he seems to relish in it.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zinjo

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

#teammiragefaithful

[Zinjo]

Something about the way Frejya is animated throughout the series seems weird to me. I can't place my finger on what it is though. It's just her character and no one else.

I keep getting the Miyazaki feel from her animation. She is very often shown having the Miyazaki toothy grin.

She has a purposely goofy laugh and I enjoy the fact that Hayate keeps teasing her about it...

On anther note, I suspect their runes are a bit more than deely boppers that light up. It appears they are a sensual organ as well. When Hayate touched Freyja's rune, she called him a perv...

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zinjo

[Raptor One]

Wasn't feeling this episode as much as the first four. The animation on Hayate's joyride seemed a little off, plus the art quality wasn't as good as normal there either. The water at times looked like a stock gradient in photoshop.

Still enjoying the character interactions though. It was good to see our main three together again, and also the little detail of Mirage trying to find Hayate before he could get busted by Messer, and Hayate defending her in turn.

Messer actually annoyed me this episode for once, but I'm excited to see his character get expanded on later.

Gotta say, I'm liking Frejya so much more than I did Ranka at this point of the series.

Can't wait to get some more info about that new classic VF (SV)

Edited May 2, 2016 by Raptor One

[azrael]

I am wondering about the Windermere fleet. Do they even have one? Because if everything is about using VAR to control someone else's military, then they are not going to get very far. The little boy who keep singing is going to keel over at some point, and all of a sudden, no more VAR controlled puppets.

We're not sure. But I think that's part of the reason for their short time table. If they don't have a fleet of ships, they don't have a numbers advantage. And if Heinz's condition is getting worst with every usage, then they are going to need some other (artificial? Sounds like Grace using Ranka) way to control their victims or Windermere will lose this conflict very quickly.

Which brings up something Kaname mentioned. Walkure have to perform live for the treatment to work. It can't be recorded performances. Hmmmm....

[Aisha Blanchette]

Some of the paths the fleets took seem a little weird.

Something about the way Frejya is animated throughout the series seems weird to me. I can't place my finger on what it is though. It's just her character and no one else.

Well that's sort of the point many of the fleets crossed paths and winded around spiraling out from Earth, not to mention it's how Frontier and Delta both showed the routes. I just traced the lines out following which fleet is what and added in suppositions of Macross 5 (Due to the fact Macross 5 was confirmed as colonizing a world and in 7 we see the world before Gigil later destroys it) and Galaxy, though not so much from Galaxy as the scene in Frontier later shows the line marked as Galaxy wind about and approach the Frontier fleet.

I doubt that.

I equate it to US Cavalry having Winchester repeaters vs the Native Americans using muskets. Yes the Natives were given rifles, but they were nothing like a Winchester...

I am however, warming up to the idea that Messer is indeed the Windemere spy. He had no compunction killing Var affected human pilots and being a buy the book kinda guy is one thing, but he seems to relish in it.

Not necessarily as this is two different things. The Native American's weren't handed a foundry and blue prints unlike Windermere was. Like all Macross Fleet's they come with plans and means of producing their fighters as they certainly can't wait months or years for a fleet to arrive to resupply. Thus it was ready made production lines for the Windermere to grab. I equate this to WWII where the German's took over Czechoslovakia and appropriated their lines for Tank development and later went on to produce new units based upon those. You can see such with the production of the German Pz38(t), where the lines was literally taken in bulk by the Germans from which many of it's elements and parts were later used in the Jagdpanzer 38, aka. the Hetzer. So naturally with means of production, plans already given, and the basics to improve upon. It's not far fetched but in all cases likely that they took the SV line and created the next generation from it. Especially when we know early fleets such as the Megaroad's did include SV-52's in them.

~

Also for some reason speaking of Ranka and Freyja, I still like Ranka better. Freyja strikes me as... annoying. It might be that "Uweeheehee" laugh of hers or the fact that so far I'm not liking any song in the series past Ikenai BORDERLINE. But whatever the reason, Freyja is at least to me the worst female lead in Macross History. However, I'm holding off condemning her until at least Episode 7. Since that's usually where the deconstruction of the characters begin and we can start to get some inside look at the characters.

[Zinjo]

We're not sure. But I think that's part of the reason for their short time table. If they don't have a fleet of ships, they don't have a numbers advantage. And if Heinz's condition is getting worst with every usage, then they are going to need some other (artificial? Sounds like Grace using Ranka) way to control their victims or Windermere will lose this conflict very quickly.

Which brings up something Kaname mentioned. Walkure have to perform live for the treatment to work. It can't be recorded performances. Hmmmm....

I see that as an extension of the precedent set in M7. Recorded music has an affect ala Minmay in the Great Space War, but Fire Bomber's singing had a profound affect on those under mind control.

[Zinjo]

Not necessarily as this is two different things. The Native American's weren't handed a foundry and blue prints unlike Windermere was. Like all Macross Fleet's they come with plans and means of producing their fighters as they certainly can't wait months or years for a fleet to arrive to resupply. Thus it was ready made production lines for the Windermere to grab. I equate this to WWII where the German's took over Czechoslovakia and appropriated their lines for Tank development and later went on to produce new units based upon those. You can see such with the production of the German Pz38(t), where the lines was literally taken in bulk by the Germans from which many of it's elements and parts were later used in the Jagdpanzer 38, aka. the Hetzer. So naturally with means of production, plans already given, and the basics to improve upon. It's not far fetched but in all cases likely that they took the SV line and created the next generation from it. Especially when we know early fleets such as the Megaroad's did include SV-52's in them.

The problem with that is why would the Emigration Program deploy an inferior fighter in a Megaroad fleet? Only a few SV-52's survived the GSW. Resurrecting a fighter for production as opposed to simply building MORE VF-1's or VF-4's as fleet escort fighters would be counter productive, a waste of time and resources at a critical time.

If I were given a foundry I could make a hammer. If someone gave me plans to make a corded drill, I could make a corded drill. That doesn't mean I have been given plans to make a cordless drill, but I could build a drill nonetheless. The Windermians are a smart people and appear to have built on the tech they were given with the SV series of fighters to construct the SV-262 a formidable fighter in its own right.

I believe the UNG and now the NUNG have a policy of NOT providing advanced tech to colonies or emigration fleets. If the governments of these wish to develop more advanced versions of the specs sent (Frontier and Galaxy are great examples) then so be it.

Only the Federal Government Fleets are deployed with the latest advanced technologies in order to give the "core worlds" a tactical advantage against any insurgencies or attacks from colony fleets.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zinjo

[mickyg]

Any thoughts on the team's discussion about var, and specifically what they said about how they didn't think every outbreak was caused by Heinz's song? I thought that was interesting and a bit of a puzzler.

Enjoying the various threads running in the series so far. The history, the way cultures have been changed, and the character relationships are all a very nice way to weave the story at this early stage. I like it!

[sharky]

This show is a deculture and a half.

[daflip702]

Classic nostalgic Joyride in a Valkyrie, glad to see that. I wish they choose a better Fill In song.

Also, Freyja's Rune looks like a pair of testicles when upside down.....Yikes.

[BChoinski]

I am wondering about the Windermere fleet. Do they even have one? Because if everything is about using VAR to control someone else's military, then they are not going to get very far. The little boy who keep singing is going to keel over at some point, and all of a sudden, no more VAR controlled puppets.

And speaking of VAR, I'm still trying to get an understanding of the VAR, what does it actually do? it makes people nuts for a little while, they can be controlled for a while, but is that effect permanent, until the Walkure undoes the damage... if so, they better assassinate the Walkure just as soon as humanly possible.

I really liked this episode because of the backstory, wish actually there was more of that than Hayate's showboating... having the mercat would smack him around a little more would do him a world of good. As for the Aerial Knights, well, the Draken are cool, but too many hero units, I'd like to see more of the Windemere military in action. So, as far as I can tell, Delta squad is under another company like another SMS. They clearly aren't military, so basically we have a mercenary group fighting a bunch of separatists (or terrorists); both of whom happen to have access to some heavy weapons.

That's also what I am wondering. Like in the Gulf War, our air power ruled the skies, but you need manpower to hold the ground. How much population can an effective ice planet support, and of that how much can go into troops? How can one planet control multiple planets of population?

That said, I liked Hayate's Gerwalk dancing (well, given that the Gerwalk is my favorite form...). I really need to get a good VF-31 (not a model, the plastic and metal transforming figures, 1/60 or 1/72 scale like my old VF-1), and probably the Draken as well. Looks like it might be an expensive year.

[ManhattanProject972]

I wish they didnt have the normal credits in this episode since the song was already sung during the joyride, which I did enjoy, and gave us some more scenes with the credits rolling over them or something.

[Heron]

Was it me or did Roid mention a Shrine of Time?

[squaresphere]

Yep, there as a shrine of time.

Just as aside I really like they show how much Chuck and Mirage are NOT looking forward to fighting other "humans". Chuck really hits me as a fun loving soul who really believes that everyone can be one via culture and song. Just he's been in war and just hate it so much.

Maybe it was just me but finding out that Mirage fought for the Spacey and has been to war really surprised me. I supposed I thought her character was just trying to live up to her family's legacy but hadn't been through the meat grinder yet.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I don't quite fully agree with you on that. It was indeed good initiative on Messer's part but his execution was probably the best approach for someone as irresponsible as Hayate. I don't see how it was overly dramatic or even irresponsible of Messer especially when no one has stepped up to discipline Hayate and put him in his place. How can he be given a good ass kicking when Arad has given him a free pass not to follow orders? That gives him the perfect excuse not to do anything unless its by his own volition. Messer's tactic seems like to get under Hayate's skin to show him how much he's taking his role too lightly and being a liability to the Delta platoon with his antics. So far it seems to be working.

Why I say it was overdramatic is because Messer hops in a fighter and chases down Hayate. As for the Ass Kicking, that could have been messer taking the initiative and smacking him around a bit, and teaching him a little something about others relying on him. The way he did it, should have landed him and Hayate in trouble.

I agree that Hayate is in need of discipline, and that his free spirited nature irks me, and I agree that's a liability. Messer just seems too, trigger happy, maybe?

[RedWolf]

Why I say it was overdramatic is because Messer hops in a fighter and chases down Hayate. As for the Ass Kicking, that could have been messer taking the initiative and smacking him around a bit, and teaching him a little something about others relying on him. The way he did it, should have landed him and Hayate in trouble.

I agree that Hayate is in need of discipline, and that his free spirited nature irks me, and I agree that's a liability. Messer just seems too, trigger happy, maybe?

Well Messer seems to be vulnerable to Var. Certainly needs anger management. Arad's intention of having Chuck and Hayate in the team was to balance off Messer and Mirage who were NUNS.

I suppose Messer and Mirage have issues fitting in NUNS as we've seen in Frontier and in VF-X2 pilots are like them in attitude.

Gamlin was serious but he knew when to unwind.

[UN Spacy]

Was it me or did Roid mention a Shrine of Time?

Macross 30 ending CONFIRMED.

[RDX17]

Any thoughts on the team's discussion about var, and specifically what they said about how they didn't think every outbreak was caused by Heinz's song? I thought that was interesting and a bit of a puzzler.

I was wondering about that too. I assumed Heinz's song was causing the Var outbreaks. Maybe it's something in the translation?

[kalvasflam]

We're not sure. But I think that's part of the reason for their short time table. If they don't have a fleet of ships, they don't have a numbers advantage. And if Heinz's condition is getting worst with every usage, then they are going to need some other (artificial? Sounds like Grace using Ranka) way to control their victims or Windermere will lose this conflict very quickly.

Which brings up something Kaname mentioned. Walkure have to perform live for the treatment to work. It can't be recorded performances. Hmmmm....

Yes, I noticed that they covered that recording very nicely. So, it has to be a live performance.

I do have to wonder what the actual range of that performance need to be though.

You know part of me wishes that Kawamori would build more extensively on his universe in terms of the anime; kind of like how Disney is milking Marvel and Star Wars for all its worth, and there is still plenty of source material. Sure, lots of source materials, but here Kawamori has made it so that even the background on Windermere would be interesting, and there is plenty of things that could be revisited, if you take Frontier for example, there are various facets of Galaxy we never got, how cool would it be to do that without having a new Valk every show. I personally liked the Lucifer and the Messiah sufficiently to think they didn't need to introduce a -31 or a -30; Besides, it's got to be awfully expensive to have limited runs of these fighters. Hell, the fleet hasn't even graduated to VF-19s yet.

[Einherjar]

Hayate says he will end the war with his hands? Is that foreshadowing something? Will there be dental appointments in the future?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Einherjar

[starla]

messer is guld and kaifun in one

ouchhh, man... being compared to that d*ckwad kaifun is depressing

i'm waiting for someone to start a new post on who gets pineapple-saladed in Delta... we should have a pool going. judging by the enthusiasm so far, messer, huh?

Edited May 3, 2016 by starla

[ManhattanProject972]

Possibly the Var is a phenomenon already occurring in that part of the galaxy and the Windermereans are just taking advantage of it and trying to twist it to meet their needs and thats going to bite them in the ass later down the line?

[Aisha Blanchette]

The problem with that is why would the Emigration Program deploy an inferior fighter in a Megaroad fleet? Only a few SV-52's survived the GSW. Resurrecting a fighter for production as opposed to simply building MORE VF-1's or VF-4's as fleet escort fighters would be counter productive, a waste of time and resources at a critical time.

If I were given a foundry I could make a hammer. If someone gave me plans to make a corded drill, I could make a corded drill. That doesn't mean I have been given plans to make a cordless drill, but I could build a drill nonetheless. The Windermians are a smart people and appear to have built on the tech they were given with the SV series of fighters to construct the SV-262 a formidable fighter in its own right.

I believe the UNG and now the NUNG have a policy of NOT providing advanced tech to colonies or emigration fleets. If the governments of these wish to develop more advanced versions of the specs sent (Frontier and Galaxy are great examples) then so be it.

Only the Federal Government Fleets are deployed with the latest advanced technologies in order to give the "core worlds" a tactical advantage against any insurgencies or attacks from colony fleets.

Familiarity is one reason for the use of the SV-52. We don't know who all was on the Megaroad, however it could quite well be former Anti-UN forces, SV otaku, or a dozen other valid reason such as even economic. We know for example with Frontier why they have the Macross Quarter and a whole squadron of the VF-25 Messiahs was due to SMS financing the fleet. Following Space War I, we have to consider that many of the Megaroads were sent out in less than ideal circumstances and with less back up than the later Macross # fleets. This means they can and will take what they could get to provide additional back up. Not to mention Another thing to consider is they probably left with a few SV-52's but along the way developed new fighters. We've seen such to a degree in Macross 7 and Macross Frontier, where each fleet takes existing designs and fleshes them out to suit themselves and/or develop new ones of their own such as Macross Galaxy with the VF-27 using the data they get from NUNS. But all things point that the ship that arrived at Windermere was using SV variants. Which we have already seen one other then the Draken III thanks to the photographs show in this episode. So we are well aware of older SV's existing that aren't 51/52's. Which this shows that they have been producing other SV's for some time.

In fact everything points to the fact that once the Megaroad arrived they shared their SV's with the Windermerian's since they had officially shown to have a flying squadron of their Knights in older SV/VF's. Which means then once they had their war of independence they usurped the production lines and kept them for themselves and continued to further develop them on their own. My point being that in all likely hood, the Megaroad that arrived on Windermere was primarily using SV variants and not the usual VF's. Thus the production lines for the Draken and it's ilk all hailed from the SV-51's, giving us a contiguous progression of two separate transformable mecha fighter lines. The VF's and their YF prototypes and then the rival line of the SV's of which the Draken III is current reigning king of. I will throw a guess and say that the fighters we see in the photographs are probably the previous SV unit the Draken II. But in all likely hood, Windermere colonizing Megaroad was more SV predominant than VF.

However, it may be nothing more than idiological, the Windermerian's may just have simply chosen to accept the SV nomenclature for no other reason than the fact that it represented Anti-UN sentiments. Of course then though this implies that they bothered to read up on Earth history some how and chose to purposely go with such an vague obscure reason...

[d3v]

All I can say about Messer in this episode is good initiative, poor execution... He was right, however the way he went about addressing it was overly dramatic, and equally irresponsible.

All Hayate needs is a good ass kicking... Maybe Captain Johnson could give him some "Remedial Lessons", or get some "Blast Fence Training" from Arad or Messer.

I liked the episode, but It was probably the weakest one thus far, but still good for a "what do we know that we didn't before" episode. The joyride seemed a bit of a hamfisted effort to get some Hayate mecha dancing and a Walkure song shoehorned into the episode, which I didn't appreciate (felt too forced).

Still, not every episode can be perfect.

Mirage will punish him by stabbing him.

Familiarity is one reason for the use of the SV-52. We don't know who all was on the Megaroad, however it could quite well be former Anti-UN forces, SV otaku, or a dozen other valid reason such as even economic. We know for example with Frontier why they have the Macross Quarter and a whole squadron of the VF-25 Messiahs was due to SMS financing the fleet. Following Space War I, we have to consider that many of the Megaroads were sent out in less than ideal circumstances and with less back up than the later Macross # fleets. This means they can and will take what they could get to provide additional back up. Not to mention Another thing to consider is they probably left with a few SV-52's but along the way developed new fighters. We've seen such to a degree in Macross 7 and Macross Frontier, where each fleet takes existing designs and fleshes them out to suit themselves and/or develop new ones of their own such as Macross Galaxy with the VF-27 using the data they get from NUNS. But all things point that the ship that arrived at Windermere was using SV variants. Which we have already seen one other then the Draken III thanks to the photographs show in this episode. So we are well aware of older SV's existing that aren't 51/52's. Which this shows that they have been producing other SV's for some time.

In fact everything points to the fact that once the Megaroad arrived they shared their SV's with the Windermerian's since they had officially shown to have a flying squadron of their Knights in older SV/VF's. Which means then once they had their war of independence they usurped the production lines and kept them for themselves and continued to further develop them on their own. My point being that in all likely hood, the Megaroad that arrived on Windermere was primarily using SV variants and not the usual VF's. Thus the production lines for the Draken and it's ilk all hailed from the SV-51's, giving us a contiguous progression of two separate transformable mecha fighter lines. The VF's and their YF prototypes and then the rival line of the SV's of which the Draken III is current reigning king of. I will throw a guess and say that the fighters we see in the photographs are probably the previous SV unit the Draken II. But in all likely hood, Windermere colonizing Megaroad was more SV predominant than VF.

However, it may be nothing more than idiological, the Windermerian's may just have simply chosen to accept the SV nomenclature for no other reason than the fact that it represented Anti-UN sentiments. Of course then though this implies that they bothered to read up on Earth history some how and chose to purposely go with such an vague obscure reason...

Was the fleet using SV variants? Or was the plane we saw in the flashback simply a more recent, indigenously produced fighter (perhaps their own interpretation of a YF-24 based design)?

IMO, signs point to the latter since we don't actually see any SV fighters during the part where it shows first contact.

Edited May 3, 2016 by d3v

[eko.prasetiyo]

Familiarity is one reason for the use of the SV-52. We don't know who all was on the Megaroad, however it could quite well be former Anti-UN forces, SV otaku, or a dozen other valid reason such as even economic. We know for example with Frontier why they have the Macross Quarter and a whole squadron of the VF-25 Messiahs was due to SMS financing the fleet. Following Space War I, we have to consider that many of the Megaroads were sent out in less than ideal circumstances and with less back up than the later Macross # fleets. This means they can and will take what they could get to provide additional back up. Not to mention Another thing to consider is they probably left with a few SV-52's but along the way developed new fighters. We've seen such to a degree in Macross 7 and Macross Frontier, where each fleet takes existing designs and fleshes them out to suit themselves and/or develop new ones of their own such as Macross Galaxy with the VF-27 using the data they get from NUNS. But all things point that the ship that arrived at Windermere was using SV variants. Which we have already seen one other then the Draken III thanks to the photographs show in this episode. So we are well aware of older SV's existing that aren't 51/52's. Which this shows that they have been producing other SV's for some time.

In fact everything points to the fact that once the Megaroad arrived they shared their SV's with the Windermerian's since they had officially shown to have a flying squadron of their Knights in older SV/VF's. Which means then once they had their war of independence they usurped the production lines and kept them for themselves and continued to further develop them on their own. My point being that in all likely hood, the Megaroad that arrived on Windermere was primarily using SV variants and not the usual VF's. Thus the production lines for the Draken and it's ilk all hailed from the SV-51's, giving us a contiguous progression of two separate transformable mecha fighter lines. The VF's and their YF prototypes and then the rival line of the SV's of which the Draken III is current reigning king of. I will throw a guess and say that the fighters we see in the photographs are probably the previous SV unit the Draken II. But in all likely hood, Windermere colonizing Megaroad was more SV predominant than VF.

However, it may be nothing more than idiological, the Windermerian's may just have simply chosen to accept the SV nomenclature for no other reason than the fact that it represented Anti-UN sentiments. Of course then though this implies that they bothered to read up on Earth history some how and chose to purposely go with such an vague obscure reason...

perhaps that megaroad crewed by former anti-UN and somehow they managed to influenced the king to secede.

[RDX17]

i'm waiting for someone to start a new post on who gets pineapple-saladed in Delta... we should have a pool going. judging by the enthusiasm so far, messer, huh?

Pure speculation of course, but my guess would be Arad or Chuck. I think if someone does end up a casualty it will be used in order to focus Hayate.

[azrael]

Possibly the Var is a phenomenon already occurring in that part of the galaxy and the Windermereans are just taking advantage of it and trying to twist it to meet their needs and thats going to bite them in the ass later down the line?

They mentioned that Var cases involving strong fold waves were linked to the Windermerans. It's possible the Windermerans are taking advantage of a situation, but from episode 1, it seemed like there was an unusually high number of cases in Al Shahal region, in other words, a pattern. I'm guessing most Var cases haven't correlated to a pattern like the ones that the Windermerans have made.

[eko.prasetiyo]

I wonder wether vajra can be affected by var? besides, where are they now?

if winderemerean can control vajra, thats huge problem