Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 4 - READ 1st POST

[azrael]

What's wrong with this? I see a CF valk actually doing something cool...

That scene cemented the love for the VF-171 around here back in 2008.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Ah, I see. I was a new member back then, so I sort of missed that. Hard to believe that I've been a part of this community on and off for going on 8 years.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Valkyrie Driver

[Master Dex]

MACHIDA PAWNCH!

That seemed like a good way to announce my return from lurker status I've held the past few years. Hello again Macross World.

(also to be topical, this episode rocked and I've fallen in love with the Draken as you can probably tell)

[eko.prasetiyo]

the lifespan of winderemerean about 30 years does that affected by their home planet? like caused by radiation / or something that happened only on winderemere solar system. perhaps thats why they want to conquer another planet, for the continuity of their races. or perhaps their sun is dying. just a wild guess.

and do we have any clue who is "lady M"? is she the leader or owner of chaos? I wonder could she be Mirage grandmother ?

[seti88]

Perhaps lady M is mikumo, she seems to be the one with an mysterious agenda and the only walkure who didnt seem to get that fazed by attacks during the concert.

Not to mention she talks to the stars.

[Master Dex]

and do we have any clue who is "lady M"? is she the leader or owner of chaos? I wonder could she be Mirage grandmother ?

I suspect they meant Mikumo as seti88 suggested. As much as I'd love to see Milia or Max make an appearance (I bet Max still hasn't aged), I know why they probably won't.

[d3v]

Lady M is obviously a post-op Dr. Chiba.

P.S. I can not understand why over time the designers "Valkyries" is increasingly trying to use more and more ornate and complex variants of transformation? After all, it only leads to complexity and high cost of production ...

What's wrong with a simple classical scheme and its variations like the YF-21 and VF-171, well, or "alternative" VF-2SS Valkyrie II?

The 17/171 transformation is far from simple. It also, retroactively, shares more with the SV-51 than the VF-1.

The 19/24 transformation isn't that complex either. The central fuselage folds similar to the "classic" transformatiin, but in reverse. This allows it to be brought into the body, while still keeping the legs attached, without needing to figure out a swing arm system, which was the main issue with the VF-1 (and why finding a "perfect transformation" for it was so tricky).

In universe, by the time of the YF-24's derivatives, it's likely been perfected to the point where it's easy and cost effective to implement - especially in the VF-31s case where the arms don't need to go into the centerline, but rather, are integrated into the wings. The latter leaves space for extra weaponry/equipment to be carried out back.

Edited April 30, 2016 by d3v

[Master Dex]

I believe in fact that for the YF-24 and its derivatives Kawamori even stated that in universe they had managed to perfect technology such that parts actually were able to separate and re-position via magnetic suspension and stuff so they could move faster with less mechanical friction to the point transformations were super fast. This can easily allow for most complex transformations to be done with ease.

[Einherjar]

I've been making hints about it for a while now, but I'm calling it right before the mecha on mecha fights really go down; Hayate is Machida's son, the red shirt from Frontier. Without any secondary material and etc. it's the only explanation I can think of for Hayate's skill and proficiency starting from battriod mode of all places. It would also be a clever balancing act between having to shoot someone down like a soldier, which Hayate has problems doing, or being a Basara tier pacifist... by just taking out of a Knight with an old fashioned beat down.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Einherjar

[JB0]

Lady M is obviously a post-op Dr. Chiba.

You tell 'em! Edited April 30, 2016 by JB0

[Graham]

I'd love it if lady M turned out to be Mylene.

[d3v]

You tell 'em!

Trying to find that old image I made on Photoshop. Seems it's not on my hard drive anymore.

Found it.

Edited April 30, 2016 by d3v

[Seto Kaiba]

My gratitude goes out to you beautiful people who recommended the [Deadfish] release. It plays back over Samsung SmartView in crystal clarity, so we can watch on the BIG screen.

The choreography really does need to be seen on a big screen to be properly appreciated.

[David Hingtgen]

I noticed the Deadfish release of Ep 4 seemed lower quality (more pixelated) than earlier eps. Like they dropped the video bitrate or something. Most noticeble when there's lots of "sparklies" (or missiles!) on screen.

[Seto Kaiba]

I noticed the Deadfish release of Ep 4 seemed lower quality (more pixelated) than earlier eps. Like they dropped the video bitrate or something. Most noticeble when there's lots of "sparklies" (or missiles!) on screen.

Looking into that, I'm actually seeing a higher bitrate in Ep4 than previous episodes... 2,800-3,300kbps for the first three, and over 3,700kbps for Ep4.

Possibly just an artifact from the capture card that got encoded in HD?

[rankalee]

Freyja says: Gori Gori just right to get out Koning Monster.

What does it mean?

[eko.prasetiyo]

does anyone realize when heinz sing to activate var syndrome he sing in front of circle that sending a plasma to a hole on the wall. and there's few hole on that wall. seems that hole represent planet/world that been targeted by var and that circle seem can be adjusted for targetting.

Edited May 1, 2016 by eko.prasetiyo

[Graham]

I thought Heinz was a boy.

[Master Dex]

I thought Heinz was a boy.

You know, I thought girl the entire time until I read otherwise here.. but the GG subs I'd been using did use female pronouns too.

Is that a mistake?

[Einherjar]

I thought males have two runes and females one. A reversal of the Emaan from Orguss.

[Seto Kaiba]

does anyone realize when heinz sing to activate var syndrome he sing in front of circle that sending a plasma to a hole on the wall. and there's few hole on that wall. seems that hole represent planet/world that been targeted by var and that circle seem can be adjusted for targetting.

I'd assumed that what we were seeing was a fold wave that, amplified by the artifact, was strong enough to be visible to the naked eye (and received across an interstellar distance).

There's a LOT of planets in the galaxy, and he's aiming with some incredible precision to affect specific people on a specific planet, and the artifact doesn't look like it's movable (or at least like it can move very much), so I'd guess the room probably had another purpose for those holes before it was taken over by Roid's little experiment.

I thought males have two runes and females one. A reversal of the Emaan from Orguss.

Yeah, that's the impression we've been given so far... though as the character is a preteen kid, he's probably voiced by a woman regardless.

[eko.prasetiyo]

heinz sing in front of the circle and it seems that circle can be adjusted to certain angle for targetting

[JB0]

I noticed the Deadfish release of Ep 4 seemed lower quality (more pixelated) than earlier eps. Like they dropped the video bitrate or something. Most noticeble when there's lots of "sparklies" (or missiles!) on screen.

The artifacting is a noticable problem with the GG files, too. It's visible in the title sequence, so it is not isolated to a single episode. Basically, high action scenes demand more bittage than they've allotted. Delta is too good for the internet!

And sparklies are closely related to grain, which is darn near impossible to compress.

The deadfish re-encode is going to show it worse, though. Combination of encoding from a lossy source to a lossy target(which will always cause more loss), and that they're using an older, less efficient MPEG4 profile(so a given bitrate generates lower quality than it would on a more modern profile) exacerbates the root issue.

There's actually a chance the artifacting is visible at times the original DTV stream, though it'd be far less severe.

[jvmacross]

Just caught up to Ep 4.....when, during the declaration of war, the Windermerians define the NUNS as the "Children of the Protoculture"....was that a translation error or are they not themselves derived from the Protuculture?

[azrael]

Just caught up to Ep 4.....when, during the declaration of war, the Windermerians define the NUNS as the "Children of the Protoculture"....was that a translation error or are they not themselves derived from the Protuculture?

Keep watching. We'll find out more as the series progresses what their shtick is with the whole "Children of Protoculture".

[jvmacross]

Thanks...just making sure it wasn't some shoddy sub I was watching.....

I had initially planned on binge watching the series, but after that odd statement I am intrigued.....I may have to find the time to watch them sooner

[JetJockey]

This episode is where I'm stopping. At least for now. Perhaps when the show is over I'll read some overall reviews on the series. But this episode was just strange to me. Even though I voted negative there were some good things like the jet battles. But the end reveal was just something that didn't make me want to watch anymore.

[GabrielV]

I watched the preview episode, and since then I haven't watched anything else of Macross Delta, until I watched episode 4 last night. Once again, I watched with no subtitles, so I just enjoyed the pretty pictures, singing, and tried to infer what was going on.

I complained about Hayate's insane piloting skills in my opinion of the preview episode. After watching a clip of episode 3(?) and now watching episode 4, I understand why this was done. It was so we as an audience didn't have to slog through 5 episodes before Hayate would be considered good enough to be a pilot. I can get behind that goal, so complaint retracted.

Also, I realized this wasn't Sailor Moon with mecha. Instead this is Jem and the Holograms with Valkyries. I can get behind that too. Walkure is the Holograms. Mikumo is Jem. The Knights of Windermere are the Misfits and the Stingers. That guy with the glasses comes across like Eric Raymond. The whole Delta fighter squadron is Rio.

Upon seeing the bad guy fighters transform to battloid mode, I gained a bit more interest in them. I don't like the fighter mode at all, but the battloid mode looks fairly decent.

Before I saw the episode, I learned the Blu Rays will have English subtitles. Even though I wasn't sold on the series at that point, I decided I would at least pre-order the first disc. After watching episode 4, I have my first inkling that taking a chance on the series was a good choice.

[David Hingtgen]

Are you intentionally watching without subs, or just having trouble finding them?

[GabrielV]

Are you intentionally watching without subs, or just having trouble finding them?

Can't find them. Exacerbated by not really looking.

[RedWolf]

Some anon viewing 2ch which I'm assuming from the same anime magazine sourcewhere we got info about Walkure and Mirage.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftoro.2ch.sc%2Ftest%2Fread.cgi%2Fanime%2F1462500115%2F&sandbox=1

インタより

ドラケンⅢは他の星から持ち込まれた機体。

この機体を開発した組織は、もとは反統合同盟軍に技術提供したいた組織が

ベースになっている。統合戦争が終わった後に組織は解体されて研究者や技術者は

色んなところに散ってしまったけれど、銀河辺境が力をつけたことで、彼らが再結集して

開発した機体がドラケンⅢ。

彼らは統合軍側よりも自分たちのほうが技術的に優れていたのではないかといまだに

信じている。だから、彼らは辺境のウィンダミアに加担している。

After using Google translate here is the gist of it.

Basically after the Unification War ex-Anti-UN researchers who scattered across the galaxy contributed to the Sv-262 Draken III. Their tech is better than United Forces and are complicit to what happened to Windermere.

河森監督インタ

ウィンダミア人にしてみると、約40年前に地球人類と接触する前は、自分たちの寿命が短いとは思っていなか ったんです。

ところが突然、進んだテクノロジーを持ち、なおかつ寿命が長い種族がウィンダミアにやってきた 。

でも、身体能力は高くないし、『ルン』も持っていない。この差は何なんだと。

なぜ自分たちは早く死ななくてはいけないんだろうかと。彼らは複雑な思いを感じているはずなん ですね。

ワルキューレが歌う新曲は1話ごとに1曲に近いペースで投入します。

時代の速度が早くなっているんですよね。そういう世の中の風潮なので今回は幅広い楽曲を次々と発表してジャ ンルにとらわれない作品にしようと考えました。

ストーリー設定上では『どんな曲がヴァール症候群に効くかわからないので、さまざまな楽曲を試している』と いうことになっています。

Shoji Kawamori

From the Windermereians' point of view 40 years ago, before they encountered humanity, they did not think that their life spans were "short." However, out of nowhere, a race with advanced technology, as well as a long lifespan arrived onto Windermere. However, their physical abilities weren't high, and they did not possess "run." They must have had confusing and complex thoughts such as why did they (the Windermereians) have to die so quickly.

They're going to include new Walkure songs, about one per episode.

The speed of the era has gotten faster. (probably talking bout RL) In such an environment we're trying to constantly announce a wide-range of songs, as well as create a product that is not too caught up in one particular genre. The story-side of it is "We don't know what songs will work on the Varl, so will try many different songs."

This whole heir to the Protoculture thing is pretty much covering the Windermerean shock and inferiority complex. Physically they are the strongest among the Children of the Protoculture with exception of the Zentradi of course but they are the shortest lived and those other races don't have Runes. They had this existential crisis of their worth. Then comes in ex-AUN scientists offering them technology and perhaps ideology as well.

These factors Windermere to secede from the NUN. Now they're trying to conquer the cluster out to prove something.

Edited May 7, 2016 by RedWolf

[Nazareno2012]

Some anon viewing 2ch which I'm assuming from the same anime magazine sourcewhere we got info about Walkure and Mirage.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftoro.2ch.sc%2Ftest%2Fread.cgi%2Fanime%2F1462500115%2F&sandbox=1

After using Google translate here is the gist of it.

Basically after the Unification War ex-Anti-UN researchers who scattered across the galaxy contributed to the Sv-262 Draken III. Their tech is better than United Forces and are complicit to what happened to Windermere.

This whole heir to the Protoculture thing is pretty much covering the Windermerean shock and inferiority complex. Physically they are the strongest among the Children of the Protoculture with exception of the Zentradi of course but they are the shortest lived and those other races don't have Runes. They had this existential crisis of their worth. Then comes in ex-AUN scientists offering them technology and perhaps ideology as well.

These factors Windermere to secede from the NUN. Now they're trying to conquer the cluster out to prove something.

I think the reason why they want to secede is due to economics,with the NUN government unfairly getting the lion's share of products from Windermere (which is a very common reason for revolts in places such as Spanish-era Philippines) and calling them imperialists due to that.

[Aisha Blanchette]

Some anon viewing 2ch which I'm assuming from the same anime magazine sourcewhere we got info about Walkure and Mirage.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftoro.2ch.sc%2Ftest%2Fread.cgi%2Fanime%2F1462500115%2F&sandbox=1

After using Google translate here is the gist of it.

Basically after the Unification War ex-Anti-UN researchers who scattered across the galaxy contributed to the Sv-262 Draken III. Their tech is better than United Forces and are complicit to what happened to Windermere.

This whole heir to the Protoculture thing is pretty much covering the Windermerean shock and inferiority complex. Physically they are the strongest among the Children of the Protoculture with exception of the Zentradi of course but they are the shortest lived and those other races don't have Runes. They had this existential crisis of their worth. Then comes in ex-AUN scientists offering them technology and perhaps ideology as well.

These factors Windermere to secede from the NUN. Now they're trying to conquer the cluster out to prove something.

Woo! I totally called it! I had a feeling that the SV-Draken III was in some way descended from the SV-51/52 and was attributed to former ex-Anti UN people. Validation is sweet.

That aside...

I don't really blame the Windermerian's for the revolt, considering they are short lived it's the whole concept of leaving an impact of their life, value, and worth. Which never was a problem for them in the past but with longer lived species all around, it would certainly make them question their worth in the whole scheme of things. Though certainly we can't say about what sort of products the NUN governments were exploiting, as it's never stated... and to be honest based on the colonization of Ragna. I'm thinking it's not so much resources as cultural heritage that was being exploited. NUN's provided a new way of life, technology, a destabilizing force for the historical value of the Windermere people's.

I see it much like the case of the Native American's, settlers come in and force their ideals, opinions, culture, items, upon the people... under the guise of uplifting, and while this seems like on the surface a good thing. It is instead undermining the cultural and religious heritage of the Windermerian's. Their beliefs are being over written and destroyed as are their ways of life. After all, we can see that Windermere seems to have a feudal system in place with a generally pre-industrialization like civilization based on their structures and general technology, their Draken's and ships excluded. Certainly if our ways of life were threatened, we'd revolt to protect what is standard norm.

Actually the more I think about it, Winderemere is striking me as an analog to Japan's resistance against Westernization.

[Nazareno2012]

I don't really blame the Windermerian's for the revolt, considering they are short lived it's the whole concept of leaving an impact of their life, value, and worth. Which never was a problem for them in the past but with longer lived species all around, it would certainly make them question their worth in the whole scheme of things. Though certainly we can't say about what sort of products the NUN governments were exploiting, as it's never stated... and to be honest based on the colonization of Ragna. I'm thinking it's not so much resources as cultural heritage that was being exploited. NUN's provided a new way of life, technology, a destabilizing force for the historical value of the Windermere people's.

I see it much like the case of the Native American's, settlers come in and force their ideals, opinions, culture, items, upon the people... under the guise of uplifting, and while this seems like on the surface a good thing. It is instead undermining the cultural and religious heritage of the Windermerian's. Their beliefs are being over written and destroyed as are their ways of life. After all, we can see that Windermere seems to have a feudal system in place with a generally pre-industrialization like civilization based on their structures and general technology, their Draken's and ships excluded. Certainly if our ways of life were threatened, we'd revolt to protect what is standard norm.

Actually the more I think about it, Winderemere is striking me as an analog to Japan's resistance against Westernization.

Or maybe it is due to a combination of several reasons such as economic, political and social, as I don't think it is mostly cultural as I am pretty sure the UN is not systematically eradicating their culture, as they might have learned from colonization on Earth.

[Aisha Blanchette]

Or maybe it is due to a combination of several reasons such as economic, political and social, as I don't think it is mostly cultural as I am pretty sure the UN is not systematically eradicating their culture, as they might have learned from colonization on Earth.

That's possible, it does seem to be a combination of cultural, political, and social reasons. However, at least from all indications there hasn't really been any exploitation of resources other than a market for their apples.

Which means that there has to be some really plausibly deep 'exploitation' of some kind, the only kind that is available to really estimate about is the people. That in turn suggests there is some sort of issue of change that undermined a value or belief of the Windermerian's to motivate them to revolt. Especially a revolt that would actually work at expunging NUNS from their planet. There definitely has to be a much deeper role on a religious level due to their constant talk about the Winds and reclaiming it/defending/etc. So that's at least where I'm getting my concept at current, I just wish though that they'd explain more about what sort of exploitation occurred since there is currently very little in the way of facts to base things on...

Though on the subject of eradicating the culture... It's similar in regards once again to the modernization of the Native American's. As they adopted newer technologies and things, the corner stones of their old ways eroded away. A good example I think would be to consider the Windermere as Amish sort of. They have their old ways and rustic means of existence. Modern technology would and does go against their belief and society and those that leave to partake in modern amenities are exiled from the Amish and not allowed back... It's not like modern society means to eradicate the Amish way, it just is counter to their ways that it presents a cultural rift that can bring about an end to the Amish peoples way of life if they all were to just accept the modern goods. This is much how I am perceiving the Windermere, they have their ways of life and it's not like NUNS means to destroy it... it's just a side effect of their technological advancements and long lived lives in contrast. It may even be that they do not approve of anyone other than themselves flying in their skies, which based on their referencing Wind all the time, makes me believe that they were also perhaps unhappy with none Windermere operating in their airspace.

But yeah, until there's more facts... This is really all I can surmise while looking at similar situations with various real world cultures as reference. Cultural, Social, and Political really strike me as the three primary factors... Economic not so much, at least yet. Unless perhaps they leveraged technological advancements for resources... Hmm. I'll have to rewatch all the Windermere scene's to check for that.