Toy storage advice requested

[Palantirion]

At this point I have quite a bit of Macross and other mecha collectibles. I also have 1/6 and 1/12 scale figures, assorted gashapon and maquettes. I do not have enough display area for all of it, and thus have decided to rotate what is displayed.

This means storage is required, and not too far away. I have some spaces for storage within the air conditioned house. I have a lot more space in my attic - which in SoCal is nice and dry but can get warm even with venting. During the summer months it may see 120F but cools off a lot at night. Most of the year it is between 80 and 90F @ <30% humidity.

Is the attic storage option threatening to the average Yamato 1/60? Not just the plastic, but to the stickers/decals? I have had some plastic model kits up there for 10 years straight and when inspected they don't seem any different than when I first stored them.

What about rubber degredation? I have some 1/6 Alien merch that is rubber-skinned, and some Macross gashapon is pretty rubbery too. I am probably most concerned about them and the skin on my Phicen figures.

I assume PCV injection statues, and diecast, will be ok up there.

[no3Ljm]

Hope this old existing thread can help you out.

[Palantirion]

Hope this old existing thread can help you out.

-Sort of, but not really. Attic storage is very different than garager storage - particularly when it comes to cycling of the air and moisture. I'd really like to know from an engineer what temps accelerate the types of plastics and rubbers our toys are made of. And I have no idea when sticker adhesive or decals become heat sensetive.

Reposting this bit about plastics, somewhat interesting:

Most plastics typically reflect the majority of UV light that hits them. However, if there are trace elements of catalyst residues (chemicals used in manufacturing of the plastic), such as if the manufacturer doesn't get the mixture quite right, then the residues present in the final plastic will absorb UV and drastically accelerate the degradation process. Exposure to UV light in this instance starts a process called photodegradation (through photooxidation), which takes place in parallel with thermal oxidation (from exposure to heat). Both processes break down the chemical structure of the plastic as certain parts of it combine with available oxygen. And once this process gets started, it feeds upon itself and starts a continual cycle of degradation. Interestingly enough, the disrupted plastic molecules that are produced by the photooxidation process absorb UV light themselves and re-emit it at a lower wavelength (in the visible range), which changes the perceived color of the plastic.

In the case of the SNES plastic, however, the trigger of the oxidation process is clearly not UV light, but simple and unavoidable exposure oxygen in the air over time, with heat possibly accelerating the process. Once the process is triggered, its effects cascade in a recursive cycle — as in the UV example above — eventually changing the physical nature of the plastic and its color. Visual proof that exposure to air is causing the SNES discoloration can be seen in the picture below:

[Mazinger]

The quote above really get's to the point. If you want more details, I'd suggest reading through the RetrOBright related articles. They get into the chemistry of the effects of bromines used in plastics. Light (UV) exposure accelerates the process, but there's also been plenty of members that have tucked away goods in opaque boxes in dark rooms only to see some parts yellow or darken over time.

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm

[Mechapilot77]

i think heat is bad in general for these things as well as thermal cycles. thermal cycles is just bad....these things are made with unlike materials that have differnt cefficients of thermal expansion...so some mateirals shrink and grow more than other they are mated too...not a good thing. also in heat...rubbery materials dry out in heat as well. i would tend not to store things in hot attic. a cool garage is or basement is probably way better. i know socal houses don't usually have basements but they do have garages.

[Palantirion]

The quote above really get's to the point. If you want more details, I'd suggest reading through the RetrOBright related articles. They get into the chemistry of the effects of bromines used in plastics. Light (UV) exposure accelerates the process, but there's also been plenty of members that have tucked away goods in opaque boxes in dark rooms only to see some parts yellow or darken over time.

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm

-Thanks, that was an interesting read. Although if I am not mistaken it pertains only to non-painted ABS. how much of our toys are made of ABS, vs PVC or other plastic compounds?

i think heat is bad in general for these things as well as thermal cycles. thermal cycles is just bad....these things are made with unlike materials that have differnt cefficients of thermal expansion...so some mateirals shrink and grow more than other they are mated too...not a good thing. also in heat...rubbery materials dry out in heat as well. i would tend not to store things in hot attic. a cool garage is or basement is probably way better. i know socal houses don't usually have basements but they do have garages.

-Good point about heat cycles vs. dissimilar materials. In the case of my garage: it has cars in it. I know this is a weird concept but our house is an exception in our neighborhood.

Here's what I found out about...

Plastics

-Good article on degredation, highlighting the wide variety of interactions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_degradation

From it this section on Stabilizers for polymers: Hindered amine light stabilizers (HALS) stabilize against weathering by scavenging free radicals that are produced by photo-oxidation of the polymer matrix. UV-absorbers stabilizes against weathering by absorbing ultraviolet light and converting it into heat. Antioxidants stabilize the polymer by terminating the chain reaction due to the absorption of UV light from sunlight. The chain reaction initiated by photo-oxidation leads to cessation of crosslinking of the polymers and degradation the property of polymers.

Which lists nothing to stabilize polymers from ambient post-production heat. I conclude that ambient heat must be far less important (within industrial use anyway) than UV-caused degredation or oxidation.

-From this wiste (http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1655): " For example, 40% of museums surveyed contain plastics objects manufactured and collected since 1980, and modem plastics are also showing symptoms of decay." Definitely heat is not a factor in a/c museums, so I would surmise the primary cause there is oxidation.

-Model forums seem to dismiss ambient heat as a problem for styrene plastics.

-From a Lego forum: A quick wikipedia search gives the operating temperature of ABS plastic as between −25 and 60 °C (-13 and 140 °F).

For whatever use it adds to the conversation, here's what a quick search on vinyl told me:

"Store in-use LPs at a temperature of 65 to 70 °F (18 to 21 °C). Those in long-term storage should be kept at 45 to 50 °F (7 to 10 °C). Though relative humidity (RH) is considered less an issue for vinyl than other recorded media, it is recommended that LPs be stored at 45 to 50% RH"

Silicone rubber

-WikiP: "Silicone rubber is generally non-reactive, stable, and resistant to extreme environments and temperatures from -55 °C to +300 °C while still maintaining its useful properties."

-From website: http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/store/is_silicone_a_plastic#.Vw_diVLheIc

"They can leach certain synthetic chemicals at low levels, and the leaching is increased with fatty substances, such as oils."

Rubber

-From this article (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Rubber#Reason_for_vulcanizing) it seems that oxidation is the prime factor in rubber degredation.

Decals

-No scientific details yet. Concensus is to store between 60-80F with stable humidity 40-50%. Essentially the same directions as for vinyl LPs.

Stickers

-No scientific details yet. Concensus is to store between 60-80F with stable humidity 40-50%. Essentially the same directions as for vinyl LPs.

I'll post more if I find out more.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Palantirion

[Nightbat]

7-10°C

So if I get this correctly

...my beer needs to make room for my figures

[Mazinger]

7-10°C

So if I get this correctly

...my beer needs to make room for my figures

Gotta prioritize man.

[sharky]

Play it safe. Keep your toys out of heat and light, period.

For rubbery parts/items I recall a chemical you can buy to keep gaskets/rubber in good shape. RocketPunchArmy on YouTube did a video on it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by sharky

[no3Ljm]

Play it safe. Keep your toys out of heat and light, period.

For rubbery parts/items I recall a chemical you can buy to keep gaskets/rubber in good shape. RocketPunchArmy on YouTube did a video on it.

+1

[Palantirion]

Play it safe. Keep your toys out of heat and light, period.

For rubbery parts/items I recall a chemical you can buy to keep gaskets/rubber in good shape. RocketPunchArmy on YouTube did a video on it.

-Off the top of my head I can think of several automotive lubricants that would be excellent at moisturizing rubber (and silicone). But that doesn't necessarily mean they would be safe to any applied paints. I'll look up the vid and see if it's useful. Thanks for the suggestion.

*Update*

I had two registers installed in my attic, and reconfigured my a/c scheduling. I am currently studying the temperature differentials between attic, house and ambient. The effect of the registers has been significant so far, in our moderately warm weather. Hopefully next week will be fairly hot so I will get a new range of data.

[CoreyD]

I'm a museum professional. I can tell you that no matter what, all plastics are going to degrade eventually. Sorry to say, but you can't stop it from happening. The question is how long will it take and what are you willing to do to retard the process?

Does anyone have any original star wars figures that are starting to feel sticky? That's the plastic breaking down.

If you want to get crazy, you can put everything into a nitrogen atmosphere, but I doubt anyone is willing to go that far

Otherwise, its what was posted, keep your stuff out of direct light, extreme humidity or heat, and above all, try to limit fluctuations between temperatures.

Most materials are fine, even in non-ideal conditions, as long as the temp/humidity is stable. When you have a lot of fluctuations, the materials expand and contact rapidly, which leads to accelerated deterioration.

I know I'm not saying anything new, but even the best museums can only do so much to slow down what will happen to all plastics eventually.

Enjoy your toys and models! They won't be around forever, but neither will we!

[ArchieNov]

Enjoy your toys and models! They won't be around forever, but neither will we!

100% Agreed!

[Big s]

Could try a vacume case, but that's probably ridiculous and over priced.

[Scyla]

I have a different question. I was shuffling some toys around in my display cases and was wondering if it is a good idea to have painted plastic touching the styrofoam package. The VF-25 have an added plastic foil that I can use wrap the toy up but some of my toys came with a styrofoam inlet where the toy is touching it directly. So I was wondering if it would be a good idea to add some extra layer of plastic foil if the toy is in storage.

[ArchieNov]

I heard that direct contact with styrofoam can rub paint off. Can not confirm this though. I would recommend that you wrap it in plastic just to be safe.

[no3Ljm]

I heard that direct contact with styrofoam can rub paint off. Can not confirm this though. I would recommend that you wrap it in plastic just to be safe.

I guess that's the reason why the DX Valks comes with plastic on them.

[Palantirion]

On 6/1/2016 at 2:42 PM, CoreyD said:

I'm a museum professional. I can tell you that no matter what, all plastics are going to degrade eventually. Sorry to say, but you can't stop it from happening. The question is how long will it take and what are you willing to do to retard the process?

Does anyone have any original star wars figures that are starting to feel sticky? That's the plastic breaking down.

If you want to get crazy, you can put everything into a nitrogen atmosphere, but I doubt anyone is willing to go that far

Otherwise, its what was posted, keep your stuff out of direct light, extreme humidity or heat, and above all, try to limit fluctuations between temperatures.

Most materials are fine, even in non-ideal conditions, as long as the temp/humidity is stable. When you have a lot of fluctuations, the materials expand and contact rapidly, which leads to accelerated deterioration.

I know I'm not saying anything new, but even the best museums can only do so much to slow down what will happen to all plastics eventually.

Enjoy your toys and models! They won't be around forever, but neither will we!

A follow-up question: With regard to older plastic toys (like Takaras from the '80s), would it be better to store them in their original styrofoam or bubble-wrapped inside large plastic baggies? My concern is that the styrofoam may break down faster and it's chemicals could accellerate the aging of the toys' plastics.

[arbit]

I have an unscienetific theory that the styrofoam or packaging itself causes yellowing. A couple time I recall having perfectly white toys, then after storing them a while, when I open the box, voila, they are yellow. 

My stuff is never in direct sunlight and it is always indoors.

Edited February 19, 2017 by arbit

[jenius]

I've heard that plastic needs to breathe a little bit in its packaging and that's why a completely sealed plastic bag is a bad way to store a toy. I don't know though, some plastic may interact with its packaging but plastic just degrades over time... the more impurities in it, the quicker it happens.. and I think that can even vary in several of the exact same toy if they weren't all made from exactly the same batch of plastic.

[MacrossJunkie]

On 2/19/2017 at 2:59 PM, jenius said:

and I think that can even vary in several of the exact same toy if they weren't all made from exactly the same batch of plastic.

I agree. Just plain variance in the plastic may have a hand the yellowing regardless of where or how it was stored.

I have two Yamato VF-0S that I had displayed next to each other. One looks completely fine, the other has entire pieces that have changed color that have no correlation to facing and both were in the same environment.

[anubis20]

On 6/1/2016 at 5:42 PM, CoreyD said:

I'm a museum professional. I can tell you that no matter what, all plastics are going to degrade eventually. Sorry to say, but you can't stop it from happening. The question is how long will it take and what are you willing to do to retard the process?

Does anyone have any original star wars figures that are starting to feel sticky? That's the plastic breaking down.

If you want to get crazy, you can put everything into a nitrogen atmosphere, but I doubt anyone is willing to go that far

Otherwise, its what was posted, keep your stuff out of direct light, extreme humidity or heat, and above all, try to limit fluctuations between temperatures.

Most materials are fine, even in non-ideal conditions, as long as the temp/humidity is stable. When you have a lot of fluctuations, the materials expand and contact rapidly, which leads to accelerated deterioration.

I know I'm not saying anything new, but even the best museums can only do so much to slow down what will happen to all plastics eventually.

Enjoy your toys and models! They won't be around forever, but neither will we!

Some of the fixed hands on my 1/60 VF-1 are starting to get that sticky feel to them  They are already breaking down and there is no way to fix them? So far my 1/60 VF-1A Kaki's hands suffer from that and maybe a 1S roy but i cant recall. 

[Sandman]

4 hours ago, anubis20 said:

Some of the fixed hands on my 1/60 VF-1 are starting to get that sticky feel to them  They are already breaking down and there is no way to fix them? So far my 1/60 VF-1A Kaki's hands suffer from that and maybe a 1S roy but i cant recall. 

I have that happening to the cockpit seat of my 1/48 vf-1s hikaru. The seat feels sticky and the paint is transferring to the pilot every time i put the pilot in the seat. I can wipe the pilot clean but it's annoying. When i first noticed this i panicked and checked all my other 1/48s but they were all fine. This particular 1/48 1S was bought used off a member here and wasn't in the greatest shape to begin with. So i don't know what different variables are in play from the rest of my collection. I wonder if i paint the chair, will the stickiness remain?

[Boobytrap]

I actually had a happy coincidence that fixed some valks that were getting sticky hands. I had a VF-1A TV Kakizaki with sticky hands that I quickly transported loose in a paper grocery bag. When I went to take it out the hands were no longer sticky. As a test I took the sticky hands from my Max VF-1A, put them in a paper bag, and shook them. When I took them out they too were no longer sticky.

I have no explanation as to why this worked. It, of course, would not reverse the chemical break down of the plastic. Regardless of what this did that would still continue to happen. I am assuming that either the small fibers in the bag absorbed the more liquefied plastic and/or those same fibers stuck to the sticky plastic (I couldn't visually see any difference though) eliminating the tacky feel. Whatever the reason I now have hands that feel like new, even months later.

[Sandman]

I await the inevitable posts of members stating they've been shaking their toys in a paper bag for hours with no results.

[Boobytrap]

 Yeah, I guess I should have put a disclaimer on that. 'I bear no responsibility for the efficacy of this procedure.'

[Darth Mingus]

6 minutes ago, Boobytrap said:

 Yeah, I guess I should have put a disclaimer on that. 'I bear no responsibility for the efficacy of this procedure.'

hmmm, I think your username says it all..."Try shaking the toy in a paper bag..."