Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 3 - READ 1st POST

[Saruta]

I've never seen any dating restriction to Minmay, Sheryl or Ranka or Fire Bomber. And Kawamori always shows the flowery side of being an idol not the dark parts when it comes to Macross at least. AKB is different cake.

Hmm - does AKB0048 really get to the bad parts of being an idol, as opposed to just those of being a soldier? If it does, I might reconsider not watching it. (I am not fond of the music, and honestly skipped it as a "Kawamori needs to earn" thing).

The dark part did happen withg Minmay and Sheryl, though it was not about dating restrictions. Minmay was burned out and later her popularity fizzled out because of terrible mismanagement, and Sheryl was swindled by her manager - pretty common things in the respective eras (burnout is eternal, bands fizzing out after a peak did happen in the 80s and later too, and I remember reading some gory contract stories in the 2000s).

And, was "idols can not date" even a thing at all in 1982? I thought it was borrowed from Takarazuka somewhat later?

(It surely was a thing in 2007 though... I really really hated the way pseudo-fans piled up against Aya Hirano a few years later - that's the story that awoke me to the restriction thing).

Also, Fire Bomber were not idols. They were an indie rock band that struck gold. I don't think the rule ever applied to them.

(I might, of course, be badly mistaken somewhere - apologies in this case).

Edited April 21, 2016 by Saruta

[Kcsquare]

What cracked me up was the scene where Capt Johnson waited for Hayate in the judo dojo, with veins bulging. And the banner behind him says "patience"

[ManhattanProject972]

Wasn't there an exchange between Kaname & Messer about it being against the rules to date?

If it really is against the rules it just makes it all the more sweeter.

[Saruta]

Wasn't there an exchange between Kaname & Messer about it being against the rules to date?

Where's that? I missed it and it's key for my interest...

[PrimumMobile]

I think the backlash on Aya Hirano was her self admitted whoring herself to multiple guys at the same time. The no dating thing existed in the 80s like in White Album 1. Idols sell a fantasy of being available to the fans and also covers male idols as well.

Edited April 21, 2016 by PrimumMobile

[starla]

- Where was that Fire Bomber reference? I missed it:(

chuck's kid brothers were leaping from the water, one shouted, "Fiyaaaa!!!", the other, "Bombaaaaaa!!!"

[Karaoke Ninja]

Risking your life to achieve your goals seems to be an underlying theme of the show.

Freyja's line saying "I can fly if I ride the wind. If I risk my life, I can fly." may as well be the arc words for the show.

That said, this is Macross after all, they'll likely deconstruct this halfway through the show, before reconstructing it again in time for the finale.

Arad even told him before that updraft scene that you risk your life whenever you fly so Hayate risking his life to ride the wind was him taking his words quite literally.

[d3v]

Who says Idols can't date in the Macross universe? I mean they can't in real life but in Macross universe they are reveared ever since Space War 1 and I doubt they'd give that restriction.

The restriction might not exist in the Macross universe, not when idols and singers represent "culture" and it would be weird if they weren't allowed to partake in one of the most powerful elements of "culture".

That said, it might rear it ugly head this time out, especially since Walkure are closer in representation to modern idols in Japan than previous acts like Sheryl (who, as Kanno developed her discography more started to feel more like a western diva) or Sharon Apple (who's virtual). Minmay never explored it since it wasn't prevalent during the time, meanwhile Elmo was too chill to give any sort of restriction like that to Ranka. However, with Walkure, maybe the tension between Kaname and Messer is due to this.

[kajnrig]

Saw it a few days ago. I remember enjoying it, but looking back it and the first two episodes do feel a bit in a rush. I wondered in another forum whether Delta was supposed to be a 39/52-episode broadcast forced to slot into a single season. How many episodes is this slated to be?

The music continues to grow on me, slowly.

The mock battle was a bit disappointing. Not sure why, but still disappointing. Maybe it was the end, how Messer just randomly and unnecessarily shows up just as randomly and unnecessarily as he does earlier.

Were those subs accurate and Makina and/or Reina have their own home and the two of them live together? Or is it just another dorm they share separate from the others? Because of lack of space?

Gotta say I'm digging the actual planet, though. Actual geography and pretty vistas to provide backdrops. I didn't realize how confined Frontier felt until this show.

I think the backlash on Aya Hirano was her self admitted whoring herself to multiple guys at the same time. The no dating thing existed in the 80s like in White Album 1. Idols sell a fantasy of being available to the fans and also covers male idols as well.

The whole "purity" socially-imposed chastity belt did play a role in it, I think, though I seem to recall the allegation was that she was actually forcing herself onto several men. Not just nymphomania but abuse to go with it. But then I took those reports with massive amounts of salt (partly due to said "purity" taboo).

Wasn't there an/several AKB48 member(s) who suffered a nervous breakdown after it was made public she was romantically involved? Also why are we talking about idols and dating?

[d3v]

Saw it a few days ago. I remember enjoying it, but looking back it and the first two episodes do feel a bit in a rush. I wondered in another forum whether Delta was supposed to be a 39/52-episode broadcast forced to slot into a single season. How many episodes is this slated to be?

39/52 episode runs are a thing of the past. Most anime these days are fit into blocks of 12-13 episode seasons or "cours" (following J-drama practices). I believe Delta is slotted to be a 2-cour show (around 24 episodes).

The music continues to grow on me, slowly.

I think the biggest problem the music will have to face is that it's not Kanno, so it doesn't have her eclectic fusion of styles and influences. So it's going to have to make do with a more traditional j-pop sound.

Were those subs accurate and Makina and/or Reina have their own home and the two of them live together? Or is it just another dorm they share separate from the others? Because of lack of space?

Yes, even before the subs, we already know that Reina was living with Makina. Edited April 21, 2016 by d3v

[Karaoke Ninja]

The restriction might not exist in the Macross universe, not when idols and singers represent "culture" and it would be weird if they weren't allowed to partake in one of the most powerful elements of "culture".

That said, it might rear it ugly head this time out, especially since Walkure are closer in representation to modern idols in Japan than previous acts like Sheryl (who, as Kanno developed her discography more started to feel more like a western diva) or Sharon Apple (who's virtual). Minmay never explored it since it wasn't prevalent during the time, meanwhile Elmo was too chill to give any sort of restriction like that to Ranka. However, with Walkure, maybe the tension between Kaname and Messer is due to this.

Walkure aren't actual idols so why would it matter? They're more soldiers than your typical pop idols.

[d3v]

Walkure aren't actual idols so why would it matter? They're more soldiers than your typical pop idols.

Could be a fan thing (as is how it started in Japan) where fans can get very vocal about idols getting into relationships.

[Einherjar]

Right, I get that and will even accept that to a degree, but the show has him basically skipping every lesson when it comes to learning to fly the aircraft. Yet here he is taking off, flying, and engaging in mock combat. I'd have bought it more if they stretched this out over a few episodes and showed him actually learning how to fly. I think it would have been fun and genuinely amusing.

I really thought it was great in episode 2 when they acknowledged the fact that he had no clue how to fly an aircraft. They totally avoided that anime trope of the novice doing amazing things in their super mecha. But then in episode 3 he's outmaneuvering Mirage after a week of skipping flight training with her. It took me longer than that to learn how to drive a car.

I thought the show has been giving subtle hints that there is a tragic backstory with Hayate linked to that inconsistency.

Who says Idols can't date in the Macross universe? I mean they can't in real life but in Macross universe they are reveared ever since Space War 1 and I doubt they'd give that restriction.

I guess you can't when you have Kakizaki's color scheme (both of them).

[d3v]

IMO, an interesting setup would be Messer admitting that he likes Kaname (and vice versa) but saying that he can't, or doesn't want to do anything because he feels that he has no right to since she's an idol. It could be a subtle nod to that nasty bit of the idol industry.

[JB0]

Well, she did shoot him with a VF-1's gunpod this episode, sadly it was only filled with paint bullets. Grandma Milia must be shaking her head in disappointment.

If she doesn't shoot the cockpit, it doesn't count!

[UN Spacy]

Saw it a few days ago. I remember enjoying it, but looking back it and the first two episodes do feel a bit in a rush. I wondered in another forum whether Delta was supposed to be a 39/52-episode broadcast forced to slot into a single season. How many episodes is this slated to be?

Amazon has nine discs listed for their BD/DVD's. IF they don't stray from the three episodes per volume formula Delta should be a 27 episode series.

3 x 3 x 3...makes sense with the whole Delta theme going on.

[PrimumMobile]

The idol industry is not about talent but mostly about marketing an experience and fantasy. It's about the illusion that the idols are your close friends. An idol having a relationship is said to distance them too much from their fans. Weird logic but that's why its there. It's also not exclusive to women, popular male performers are told to be single as well so that their female fans won't feel threatened.

[Scream Man]

Right, I get that and will even accept that to a degree, but the show has him basically skipping every lesson when it comes to learning to fly the aircraft. Yet here he is taking off, flying, and engaging in mock combat. I'd have bought it more if they stretched this out over a few episodes and showed him actually learning how to fly. I think it would have been fun and genuinely amusing.

I really thought it was great in episode 2 when they acknowledged the fact that he had no clue how to fly an aircraft. They totally avoided that anime trope of the novice doing amazing things in their super mecha. But then in episode 3 he's outmaneuvering Mirage after a week of skipping flight training with her. It took me longer than that to learn how to drive a car.

Except it was longer than that, it was a month. We know that it was because Mirage had a month to get him up to snuff. and this was his 'final exam' to prove he was going to be able to join the squad. Which he managed, but also acknowledged that he had more work to do.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, she did shoot him with a VF-1's gunpod this episode, sadly it was only filled with paint bullets. Grandma Milia must be shaking her head in disappointment.

She's saving the live rounds for the first date.

What cracked me up was the scene where Capt Johnson waited for Hayate in the judo dojo, with veins bulging. And the banner behind him says "patience"

That's living dangerously... who wants to be on the receiving end of a hacked-off Zentradi roughly the size and mass of four brick sh*thouses stacked together?

[Mr March]

I still think it resembles the MF-1 paint scheme more...

MF-1J-scan0003.jpg

VF-1J-G.JPG

For any fans that are interested, I did build custom artwork of the VF-1J Valkyrie "Macross The First". Like others have pointed out, the MTF scheme and the Macross Delta VF-1EX Valkyrie paint schemes are different. But they are in a similar style.

http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/variant-vf-1j-mtf.htm

Enjoy

[Valkyrie Driver]

So, the only exchange I remember that had anything to do with "dating" was Kaname essentially telling Chuck that men aren't allowed in the Female dorms...

Also, Hayate skipping classes makes very little sense to me. If Delta Platoon is a para/military organization, then that would be dereliction of duty. If Delta platoon is a corporate entity, then they'd just fire him. I get the impression that Hayate is making at least some of the classes, as he's learned the basics of flight, and he's got some basic aerobatics training from it. But hey maybe that's me, since I found training fun, and informative.

I must say that Hayate has some brass ones, because having a hacked-off zentradi of any size or lineage after you would be a terrifying thing... (recall, it's not just Johnson, it's Mirage too, and she's a Jenius...).

[d3v]

That's living dangerously... who wants to be on the receiving end of a hacked-off Zentradi roughly the size and mass of four brick sh*thouses stacked together?

Maybe it's because he's straight, and thanks to Milia, post SW1 Zentraedi mating rituals now mostly involve assault of some kind, so trying to do anything to Hayate would imply the wrong thing.

It would also explain Guld attacking Myung in Plus.

I must say that Hayate has some brass ones, because having a hacked-off zentradi of any size or lineage after you would be a terrifying thing... (recall, it's not just Johnson, it's Mirage too, and she's a Jenius...).

First comes love

Then comes the stabbing

Then comes the baby and a grandmother in law that keeps nagging.

Edited April 21, 2016 by d3v

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe it's because he's straight, and thanks to Milia, post SW1 Zentraedi mating rituals now mostly involve assault of some kind, so trying to do anything to Hayate would imply the wrong thing.

Let's just hope the dojinshi artists didn't see you write that...

It would also explain Guld attacking Myung in Plus.

First comes love

Then comes the stabbing

Then comes the baby and a grandmother in law that keeps nagging.

I'm trying to decide if this is a euphemism or not...

But either way that got a chuckle out of me.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Maybe it's because he's straight, and thanks to Milia, post SW1 Zentraedi mating rituals now mostly involve assault of some kind, so trying to do anything to Hayate would imply the wrong thing.

Just curious but where did you get that from? And when did Zentradi become Klingons...

[azrael]

Amazon has nine discs listed for their BD/DVD's. IF they don't stray from the three episodes per volume formula Delta should be a 27 episode series.

3 x 3 x 3...makes sense with the whole Delta theme going on.

With Frontier, the last 2 discs had only 2 episodes/disc.

[Zinjo]

Amazon has nine discs listed for their BD/DVD's. IF they don't stray from the three episodes per volume formula Delta should be a 27 episode series.

3 x 3 x 3...makes sense with the whole Delta theme going on.

Well there is the preview episode to consider and maybe we can expect some extras as well. MF series came on 9 discs originally and it was only 25 eps as well, so I wouldn't read to much into the disc count.

[Rbstr]

(recall, it's not just Johnson, it's Mirage too, and she's a Jenius...).

I really hope we get to see a macronized Mirage. That would really make my week.

[d3v]

Just curious but where did you get that from? And when did Zentradi become Klingons...

It's a joke.

The only known Zentraedi mating ritual we know is trying to cook with petrol.

[Kelsain]

So, the only exchange I remember that had anything to do with "dating" was Kaname essentially telling Chuck that men aren't allowed in the Female dorms...

Yeah, I've watched it again. Seems I misinterpreted that scene the first time through...

[Saruta]

Wasn't there an/several AKB48 member(s) who suffered a nervous breakdown after it was made public she was romantically involved? Also why are we talking about idols and dating?

We are talking about idols and dating because 4 to 5 of the main characters of the show are idols, in an idol group too (and I want Kawamori to deconstruct this rule to heck). Also, there was AKB0048 (which, for all I know, ignored the issue, but that's par for the course, because great anime creators have to make money too).

I wrote "4 to 5" mainly because I am not really sure what Mikumo is. I suspect she might not be interested in dating, rules or not. She seems to be a confirmed artificial lifeform or cyborg, based on the opening (reattaching screenshot which I already attached in ep2 thread) - and while Sharon Apple *was* interested in dating (in a rather, er, spectacular way), no one says this applies to all artificial creatures.

[Valkyrie Driver]

It's a joke.

The only known Zentraedi mating ritual we know is trying to cook with petrol.

Ah. While I have seen that picture of Milia trying to cook with gasoline, I don't have anything to put that into context. It would seem that I'm missing some story bits... Where is that from?

[Valkyrie Driver]

I wrote "4 to 5" mainly because I am not really sure what Mikumo is. I suspect she might not be interested in dating, rules or not. She seems to be a confirmed artificial lifeform or cyborg, based on the opening (reattaching screenshot which I already attached in ep2 thread) - and while Sharon Apple *was* interested in dating (in a rather, er, spectacular way), no one says this applies to all artificial creatures.

I'd say that's jumping to conclusions, unless you have some really good reasoning to back it up.

[d3v]

Ah. While I have seen that picture of Milia trying to cook with gasoline, I don't have anything to put that into context. It would seem that I'm missing some story bits... Where is that from?

It really is all a joke since, in the span of one episode, we see Milia trying to stab Max on their first date, and then trying to burn water on their first night as a married couple.

[kajnrig]

And tossing babies around willy-nilly.

We are talking about idols and dating because 4 to 5 of the main characters of the show are idols, in an idol group too (and I want Kawamori to deconstruct this rule to heck). Also, there was AKB0048 (which, for all I know, ignored the issue, but that's par for the course, because great anime creators have to make money too).

Oh, I thought it was something in particular that prompted it, like I'm guessing someone wondered about Messer and Kaname? Or Arad and Kaname? And then someone else must have asked "but can idols date in this universe?" etc. etc. etc.

[Dash]

Also, Hayate skipping classes makes very little sense to me. If Delta Platoon is a para/military organization, then that would be dereliction of duty. If Delta platoon is a corporate entity, then they'd just fire him. I get the impression that Hayate is making at least some of the classes, as he's learned the basics of flight, and he's got some basic aerobatics training from it. But hey maybe that's me, since I found training fun, and informative.

We know he only attended to the practices and skipped all the "classroom" classes when Mirage goes to Ragnyanyan to search for him (he tells her), and of course Mirage tells him that practices are no enough.

And whether Chaos/Delta Platoon functions as a military organization or a corporation Hayate normally would be in trouble, but remember that in episode 2 Hayate told Arad that he didn't like to follow orders and that he would do as he pleased, to which Arad said that it was fine, so yeah Hayate is receiving special treatment because he can "feel the wind".