Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 2 - READ 1st POST

[d3v]

The map made it look like it might be in one of the magellanic clouds. Those are smaller galaxies that orbit the Milky Way.

I doubt that, the map shown in episode 1 is only of the Milky Way galaxy and, with the area involved in Delta in the edge of one of the arms. What makes it look like a separate galaxy is actually just the visual overlays which puts circles over the locations. You can clearly see however that the other arms are just as far out from the center as where Windermere and Ranga are (that, and the MAgellanic clouds would be much further out).

Edited April 14, 2016 by d3v

[RedWolf]

Being devil's advocate here. Perhaps NUNs wronged Windemere in some way that their secession was justified but that powers that be in Windemere evolved to a Xenophobic stance. It's not the first time in history that a larger more technologically advanced civilization stepped on the toes a smaller, weaker one.

Depends. I suspect Windermere has its own Protoculture ruins as a source of Fold Quartz.

Leon Mishima and Macross Galaxy had their own agendas of taking over the galaxy using the stuff. Lactence also used it for itself and tested their jamming weapon with terrorists.

Remember 8 years before there was a galaxy wide invasion using Vajra.

In any case xenophobia and difference in culture is what is driving this conflict. Windermere is still stuck on a feudalistic culture. That and according to Keith they are running out of time... Time for what?

I'm positing the theory that maybe Windermere is on the verge of ecological collapse and that is what is driving these attacks. To prideful to ask for help and the colonizable planets already taken.

Windermere may not have the industrial capacity to challenge the NUN thus turning to asymmetrical warfare. The Var syndrome can also be classified as a form of mind control. Walkure and other singers like them are an obstacle to that.

Edited April 14, 2016 by RedWolf

[Roy Focker]

I think the conflict might also be fashion related. Windermere got that whole aristocratic motif going on. While NUNS got their own thing going on with those flashy colorful idol singers. Windermere just wants to be in control their own fashion trends without any outside interference.

[d3v]

I think the conflict might also be fashion related. Windermere got that whole aristocratic motif going on. While NUNS got their own thing going on with those flashy colorful idol singers. Windermere just wants to be in control their own fashion trends without any outside interference.

No, it's obviously music and idol related. Windermere are huge Ranka Lee fans and Ranka x Alto shippers and the revolution started after the galaxy-wide televised wedding of Sheryl and Alto. That song they're using to start the Var syndrome is actually "Ai Oboete Imasu ka ~ bless the little queen".

Speaking (on a more serious note) about the music, one thing I've noticed is that Delta doesn't seem to make as much use of the songs from the idols as much as Frontier did. The latter used its vocal tracks more liberally, even just as background music, for example "What 'Bout My Star" playing during Star Date (or "Pink Monsoon" in the movie). The only similar moments to these in Delta so far have always involved someone on screen singing (that song Hayate plays in episode one that Freyja sings to, and "Koi Halation THE WAR" playing during the audition with all the girls singing along to it). Hopefully this changes as we get more episodes.

[UN Spacy]

Totally prefer the Delta Squad/Chaos duty uniforms compared to the SMS uniforms from Frontier.

[wmkjr]

Reminds me of a 2pc textile motorcycle suit with knee sliders and shoulder armor.

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking of this when you said duty uniform and not the flight suit though I love that pic below.

Edited April 14, 2016 by wmkjr

[d3v]

Totally prefer the Delta Squad/Chaos duty uniforms compared to the SMS uniforms from Frontier.

Well it's not hard to see why...

[Saruta]

Well it's not hard to see why...

But should one not compare like with like when talking about PMC uniforms? I mean...

[Seto Kaiba]

Well it's not hard to see why...

I will be sorely disappointed if we don't get a Mirage AMV set to "Hips don't lie".

[Zinjo]

I doubt that, the map shown in episode 1 is only of the Milky Way galaxy and, with the area involved in Delta in the edge of one of the arms. What makes it look like a separate galaxy is actually just the visual overlays which puts circles over the locations. You can clearly see however that the other arms are just as far out from the center as where Windermere and Ranga are (that, and the MAgellanic clouds would be much further out).

Essentially, it would appear the show is taking place at the opposite side of the milky way to where Earth is located, aka the "other" boonies...

[RedWolf]

Interesting theory here.

Is Makina Nakajima a descendant of Raizo Nakajima?

[d3v]

Interesting theory here.

Nakajima bloodline.jpg

Is Makina Nakajima a descendant of Raizo Nakajima?

Well, she'd probably make the old man proud.

[Zinjo]

I was toying with the idea that the "Runes" on the Windemerians are a PC invention and they are what is left of the Anima Spiritia army of ancient times. It would fit into Seto's theory regarding the adverse affects of negative fold song.

As for "running out of time", perhaps their world is facing an impending ice age due to their own climate change issues.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Zinjo

[anime52k8]

Interesting theory here.

Nakajima bloodline.jpg

Is Makina Nakajima a descendant of Raizo Nakajima?

hotness.

[Seto Kaiba]

Interesting theory here.

Nakajima bloodline.jpg

Is Makina Nakajima a descendant of Raizo Nakajima?

Unlikely, IMO... but not impossible if old man Raizo had a family stashed away somewhere safe during the First Space War. I'd suspect the aviation in-joke would be enough on its own.

(She'd have to be his great-granddaughter or something like that...)

I was toying with the idea that the "Runes" on the Windemerians are a PC invention and they are what is left of the Anima Spiritia army of ancient times. It would fit into Seto's theory regarding the adverse affects of negative fold song.

As for "running out of time", perhaps their world is facing an impending ice age due to their own climate change issues.

Hmm... now that's an interesting line of thought! Freyja's rune certainly seems to be sensitive to biological fold waves, and those of the Aerial Knights seem to respond to heightened emotions (excitement?). The ancient Protoculture's response to having built a battle suit too high-spec for most Zentradi to pilot was to engineer a better breed of pilot (the females), so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest the Protoculture tried to engineer a species (or multiple species) which possessed greater-than-average ability to access the super dimension for their war with the Protodeviln.

(That would logically entail the question of whether the Windermerians were a failed experiment or the survivors of a successful one...)

[Sildani]

What's she working on, anyway? I've thought "L1" and "L2" indicated missile launch ports.

[RedWolf]

Unlikely, IMO... but not impossible if old man Raizo had a family stashed away somewhere safe during the First Space War. I'd suspect the aviation in-joke would be enough on its own.

(She'd have to be his great-granddaughter or something like that...)

Hmm... now that's an interesting line of thought! Freyja's rune certainly seems to be sensitive to biological fold waves, and those of the Aerial Knights seem to respond to heightened emotions (excitement?). The ancient Protoculture's response to having built a battle suit too high-spec for most Zentradi to pilot was to engineer a better breed of pilot (the females), so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest the Protoculture tried to engineer a species (or multiple species) which possessed greater-than-average ability to access the super dimension for their war with the Protodeviln.

(That would logically entail the question of whether the Windermerians were a failed experiment or the survivors of a successful one...)

While Sara Nome did demonstrate powers that Basara (regenerative) and the Knights(Newtype sense of aggression) have Macross Chronicle states that Humans's Space-Time Resonance or Fold Receptor Factor is ideal for Bird Human maintenance. The majority of humans don't have that power due to genetic nerfing of the Protoculture unless awakened through continued exposure like what happened with Macross 7 fleet.

So Humans were built to fix these high spec units but not necessarily use it themselves as more likely than not Humans can be fold wave transmitters than receivers.

Something that Windermereans both have it seems.

Also of note the Protoculture programs genetic memory into their subject races. In DYRL Zentradi have a genetic memory of culture, Macross 7 had fear of the Protodevlin. Mayans have genetic memory of Protoculture culture.

[Graham]

What's she working on, anyway? I've thought "L1" and "L2" indicated missile launch ports.

Yeah, those are the micro-missile launch ports on the legs.

[Seto Kaiba]

So Humans were built to fix these high spec units but not necessarily use it themselves as more likely than not Humans can be fold wave transmitters than receivers.

[...]

Also of note the Protoculture programs genetic memory into their subject races. In DYRL Zentradi have a genetic memory of culture, Macross 7 had fear of the Protodevlin. Mayans have genetic memory of Protoculture culture.

Slight problem... the official chronology indicates that humans were engineered before the war with the Supervision Army started and that the ship that did the work was destroyed and never made it back to report on its activities. Also, we don't know when the Birdhuman-type mecha were developed, but they weren't introduced to humanity until hundreds of thousands of years after the war ended, after humanity had done some significant evolving. Considering the Birdhuman's underlying technology, it's likely it wasn't developed until long after the war ended.

(Where in Chronicle does it say humans are ideal for maintaining bio-technology like that?)

The genetic memory thing... there's been no evidence of that outside DYRL?, so that may simply be dramatic license on the part of the in-universe movie.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Saruta]

Interesting theory here.

Nakajima bloodline.jpg

Is Makina Nakajima a descendant of Raizo Nakajima?

Could you enlighten me as to who Raizo Nakajima was/is? Google did not work.

[Seto Kaiba]

Could you enlighten me as to who Raizo Nakajima was/is? Google did not work.

Raizo Nakajima was the chief aircraft maintenance officer aboard the CVN-99 Asuka II during Macross Zero... he was responsible for the tuning of the VF-0's jet engines.

[Saruta]

Thanks! Apparently most sources spell him "Raizou" which is why I failed to find him. (I did watch M0 but it's my least favourite Macross, so I lost track of minor characters).

While I, of course, thought of Megumi Nakajima when I read of Makina Nakajima, her being a descendant of Raizou would be a cool inworld thing. And yes "family stashed somewhere" - perhaps in the same kind of shelter as the Saotome family or the young Mao Nome?

[RedWolf]

Slight problem... the official chronology indicates that humans were engineered before the war with the Supervision Army started and that the ship that did the work was destroyed and never made it back to report on its activities. Also, we don't know when the Birdhuman-type mecha were developed, but they weren't introduced to humanity until hundreds of thousands of years after the war ended, after humanity had done some significant evolving. Considering the Birdhuman's underlying technology, it's likely it wasn't developed until long after the war ended.

(Where in Chronicle does it say humans are ideal for maintaining bio-technology like that?)

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRworldguide/02ABirdman.php

The Abilities And Maintenance Systems Of The "Birdman"

The Birdman has abilities that stand out, as a semi-organic cyborg that was produced in the golden age of Over Technology. However, operating for an extended period of time was impossible in a state without maintenance. So, it was arranged that the regeneration and activation would be carried out by the "space-time resonance ability" of the primitive Earthlings. Mayan Island was certainly a place where a religious form that centred on the Birdman was adopted, and the family of the head priest, who had powerful "space-time resonance ability", where the "Shrine Maidens".

The idea is similar to how the Protodevlin/Evil Series regenerate but instead of draining negative Spiritia the pilot provides the necessary Song Energy for the Bird Human to regenerate. Also Yurva Arga in Macross 30 to fully operate needed Song Energy from the kidnapped songstresses.

The genetic memory thing... there's been no evidence of that outside DYRL?, so that may simply be dramatic license on the part of the in-universe movie.

Mayan Shrine Maidens

Among the majority of Earthlings, who lost their space-time resonance abilities due to gene manipulation, they are from a family in which the space-time resonance abilities remained in order to regenerate and activate the Birdman. They have the beliefs of the Protoculture and Birdman at the genetic level. Also, it's said that families with identical abilities exist in various places on the Earth.

The Mayan religion worship the Protoculcha. It is impossible to maintain that belief for 10,000 years but the memory is encoded in their genes.

Thus puts to question when did humanity lose its Fold Receptor Factor? When the Survey ship visited Earth and left or when the Bird Human arrived?

Edited April 15, 2016 by RedWolf

[aaajin]

after watching episode 2, I think i may be able to withstand the idols (i.e skip skip skip...) I'm more interested in the storyline and the world of Macross (pun intended) i.e human expansion in the universe and some good ol mecha/aerial actions

[Seto Kaiba]

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRworldguide/02ABirdman.php

The Mayan religion worship the Protoculcha. It is impossible to maintain that belief for 10,000 years but the memory is encoded in their genes.

Thus puts to question when did humanity lose its Fold Receptor Factor? When the Survey ship visited Earth and left or when the Bird Human arrived?

Fair enough.

Macross Zero would've made a LOT more sense if that stuff had actually been in the OVA... seriously.

This may not help the theory much though, as it seems to suggest the ancient Protoculture's genetic tampering with developing species actually reduced their ability to access and channel higher-dimension energy. There was a long gap between the Protoculture's initial stop on Earth to reengineer early homonids to sub-Protoculture standards and their return to leave the Birdhuman behind (something like a quarter-million years). I wonder if that means the Protoculture's second visit including rounding up a bunch of people who were sensitive to higher-dimension resonance or they reintroduced the trait to the population which already lived there through interbreeding with humans or something like transfusions from the Birdhuman (since the priestesses all have the same blood type which the bio-technological birdhuman does).

Y'know... this raises another interesting theory. Is the violence inherent in the nature of Humans and other sub-Protoculture species the result of the Protoculture diminishing humanity's access to higher dimension resonance? Did they, by accident or design, stunt the emotional awareness and empathy of entire species by diminishing or removing their innate ability to connect to each other and communicate through higher dimensions? Is the emergence of the fold receptor factor a product of evolution undoing the Protoculture's genetic lockout on the ability, a result of increased exposure to higher-dimension energy via overtechnology, or an intentional part of the Protoculture's design for the species that would succeed them? Come to that, did they destroy themselves because their resonance ability was underdeveloped or damaged by their tampering with their own genome in such a way that it made it harder for them to unify as a species?

This is potentially some deep deep stuff.

[David Hingtgen]

Am I the only one who thinks the ED is a lot like 7's?

[PrimumMobile]

Are you saying violence isn't some natural, intrinsic thing present in all life forms in the universe? I definitely think it is. Violence in itself isn't a bad. Violence will always be a part of all species evolved from predators, enlightened or not.

Edited April 15, 2016 by PrimumMobile

[JB0]

Am I the only one who thinks the ED is a lot like 7's?

You are the second person in thread to say that. And I'll be the third now, because that was what I was thinking too.

Are you saying violence isn't some natural, intrinsic thing present in all life forms in the universe? I definitely think it is. Violence in itself isn't a bad. Violence will always be a part of all species evolved from predators, enlightened or not.

Also herbivores. Most animals get pretty violent sometimes.

[PrimumMobile]

Yeah you got me there, some plant eaters are nasty. If a species didn't have violence as a natural characteristic, I doubt they'd survive for long.

[Graham]

Am I the only one who thinks the ED is a lot like 7's?

You mean the animation of the music?

[JB0]

Certain aspects of the animation. The floating chalk drawings, and Freyja finger-gunning the screen seem clear homages.

[RedWolf]

Fair enough.

Macross Zero would've made a LOT more sense if that stuff had actually been in the OVA... seriously.

This may not help the theory much though, as it seems to suggest the ancient Protoculture's genetic tampering with developing species actually reduced their ability to access and channel higher-dimension energy. There was a long gap between the Protoculture's initial stop on Earth to reengineer early homonids to sub-Protoculture standards and their return to leave the Birdhuman behind (something like a quarter-million years). I wonder if that means the Protoculture's second visit including rounding up a bunch of people who were sensitive to higher-dimension resonance or they reintroduced the trait to the population which already lived there through interbreeding with humans or something like transfusions from the Birdhuman (since the priestesses all have the same blood type which the bio-technological birdhuman does).

Y'know... this raises another interesting theory. Is the violence inherent in the nature of Humans and other sub-Protoculture species the result of the Protoculture diminishing humanity's access to higher dimension resonance? Did they, by accident or design, stunt the emotional awareness and empathy of entire species by diminishing or removing their innate ability to connect to each other and communicate through higher dimensions? Is the emergence of the fold receptor factor a product of evolution undoing the Protoculture's genetic lockout on the ability, a result of increased exposure to higher-dimension energy via overtechnology, or an intentional part of the Protoculture's design for the species that would succeed them? Come to that, did they destroy themselves because their resonance ability was underdeveloped or damaged by their tampering with their own genome in such a way that it made it harder for them to unify as a species?

This is potentially some deep deep stuff.

That is similar to Zeon Zum Deikun on his Newtype theory in Gundam. The Protoculture may have seen those with the ability as weapons like in Gundam where Newtypes are associated with ace pilots. We do know a group of Protoculture known as Anima Spiritia defeated the Protodevlin and sealed them.

[David Hingtgen]

Certain aspects of the animation. The floating chalk drawings, and Freyja finger-gunning the screen seem clear homages.

Combined with the whole "slice of life of the heroine in casual settings" thing going on. And even the song itself in spots matches both of Mylene's.

[d3v]

Actually, the use of real live footage run through a filter reminds me of some shots from Flashback 2012.

[Zinjo]

That is similar to Zeon Zum Deikun on his Newtype theory in Gundam. The Protoculture may have seen those with the ability as weapons like in Gundam where Newtypes are associated with ace pilots. We do know a group of Protoculture known as Anima Spiritia defeated the Protodevlin and sealed them.

Wasn't also in Gundam where Newtypes were beginning to be perceived as threats because of their ESPer abilities? Maybe I'm cross referencing pop culture franchises....

Edited April 15, 2016 by Zinjo