Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 2 - READ 1st POST

[seti88]

Ah you mean that the 31A seen could be transformed in some way to be hayate's 31J FSW variant?

That makes more sense now having that specific shot of the 31A in the episode. Was wondering why it was given such prominance as the solo valk on the tarmac.

As far as i know the 31A is a mass produced version. Perhaps in this early stages of delta, they havent produced as much yet as hayate would be the test pilot that makes it approved..

All speculation of course but it makes some sense why hayate will eventually have his own 31J valk, instead of having the 31J FSW version already available and just lying around for him to use,...

[RedWolf]

Was nice to see a VF-31A Siegfried. Could that possibly be what Hayate will pilot? As a way to visually distinguish his mecha from the VF-31's piloted by the other characters?

I got a laugh out of Hayate using the bras d'honneur behind Mirage's back. I never expected to see something like that in a Macross anime. But then again, it's likely a gestural curiosity to Japanese culture and doesn't carry any kind of obscene weight like it does to European cultures.

I think the Macross Elysian is a Macross Quarter type ship, even inspite of some rather extensive differences. Aside from most of the points previously discussed about similarities/differences, the Walkure and Delta Squadron forces sure seem to act like - and are uniformed like - an SMS style para-military group outside the New United Nations Spacy forces. Some of them even mention a dislike for the military, just like the SMS personnel did in Macross Frontier. So it would make sense that the ship is a Quarter-style vessel being run by an unconventional military group. They certainly recruit in an unconventional way, for both Walkure personnel and Delta Quadron personnel

Going over the design of Macross Elysion it is an odd mix of the Macross Quarter for the upper body and shoulders, Macross class at the crotch, and Battle class for the legs. The ARMDs though totally new.

[azrael]

Was nice to see a VF-31A Siegfried. Could that possibly be what Hayate will pilot? As a way to visually distinguish his mecha from the VF-31's piloted by the other characters?

Hayate will pilot a blue-striped VF-31J with a single head laser and single red-ish visor eye. Mirage's VF-31C has green dual-visor eye, dual head laser in purple stripes. Arad has the green-striped S variant with the usual 4 head lasers. Messar's 31F is the evil looking "horned"-headed black striped one with 2 blue eyes and dual head lasers. And lastly, Chuck's E-variant is the orange-striped one. Chuck's also lacks the gunpod/power charger for a radome.

[seti88]

Hayate will pilot a blue-striped VF-31J with a single head laser and single red-ish visor eye. Mirage's VF-31C has green dual-visor eye, dual head laser in purple stripes. Arad has the green-striped S variant with the usual 4 head lasers. Messar's 31F is the evil looking "horned"-headed black striped one with 2 blue eyes and dual head lasers. And lastly, Chuck's E-variant is the orange-striped one. Chuck's also lacks the gunpod/power charger for a radome.

31A's head is similar to the 31J...and I thk Mr March somehow inadvertantly linked the 31A as the 31J.

Got me thinking on the process of the 31A and 31J being linked together somehow further down in the episodes..

[tout-puissant]

Re; Elysium, my bet is that it's a slightly enlarged variant of the Quarter. Quarter stands about 300m tall, which as has been noted is around the height of a 90-story building. I can buy that from the screenshots provided and can dismiss the rest as cosmetic differences. If anything, consider it the same sort of differences between the Nimitz-class aircraft carriers and the forthcoming Gerald R. Ford class. The latter is a teeny big bigger and the tower is completely different in configuration and placement, but otherwise they share the same basic shape.

And regarding that city dome in the lake, note that while it's definitely not the scale as Island One, it seems to be much smaller than City 7 as well. It's got skyscrapers poking through the dome and all, but compared to the Manhattan-esque metropolis skyline that comprised most of City 7, and what was basically the entire City of San Francisco in Island 1, this one seems to be a much smaller city with some Zentradi-scale trees around it. Maybe half the size of City 7? Round about what the ol' Megaroad class would be hauling inside? Something that Elysium could dock with?

We don't even know how long Barette City here has been in existence. Could be a relatively new construction, or it could be decades old - it's impossible to really tell given how fast construction happens in the Macross universe. The locals, assuming they invited / allowed the colony to settle there, have certainly wasted no time integrating the culture. That Chaos is using Ragna as a base of operations for its state of the art planes and tech is indicative that this is no backwater planet.

Tech-wise, this is a delicious world-building episode and I'm loving it.

Mark

Edited April 12, 2016 by tout-puissant

[BChoinski]

I'd say the Elysium is a new class of ship that just borrows design cues from the Quarter class. There's a shot of it where you can see it to scale with some other buildings and it seems to be way bigger than the "Empire State sized" Quarter.

A key detail is that the deck of the CV/C-109 seems to be larger than that on the Quarter's ARMD-L, with a much bigger area for parking planes.

If we know the size of the Valks, can you use the ones on the deck as a measure?

The deck looks longer than the quarter's from frontier, and hence the whole ship would be larger.

[Mr March]

seti88
I was just speculating at that point. And maybe some hope too, lol. It would be rather fun to see, but it appears Hayate is going to have the variable fighter shown in the opening credits rather than the VF-31A. But I can still hope we'll see more of the A-type.

RedWolf
I noticed that as well. Clearly the designers were taking influences from as far back as SDF Macross again. Those legs are certainly more influenced by the New Macross/Battle Class that the previous Quater Class ships we've seen.

Azrael
Yeah, I've been messaged by folks telling me it's unlikely, since the valkyrie shown in the opening credits will be the defacto hero mecha. Still, it was a pleasant fiction while it lasted

[wmkjr]

If we know the size of the Valks, can you use the ones on the deck as a measure?

The deck looks longer than the quarter's from frontier, and hence the whole ship would be larger.

Let's just call it Macross Half . If the VF-31s are about the same size as the VF-25s:

Macross Quarter ARMD-L full view:

Macross Quarter Partial ARMD-L with VF-25's on deck:

VF-25 on Lift:

Interesting that the sides can split or fold. Looks like that new carrier can launch up to 5 valks at a time (9 if you count the short angled ones) vs 3 for the ARMD-L. One in the middle (maybe for a bigger VB-6 type since it leads straight into the bigger middle hangar and 4 on each section that splits.

Edited April 12, 2016 by wmkjr

[Seto Kaiba]

Azrael

Yeah, I've been messaged by folks telling me it's unlikely, since the valkyrie shown in the opening credits will be the defacto hero mecha. Still, it was a pleasant fiction while it lasted

Strictly speaking, there's not much preventing them from converting one model to any of the others... 'bout the only actual airframe changes are the head and the wingtips.

I think it turns out there's simply a ton of protoculture-derived races all over the galaxy. All you have to do is get to space and start exploring and you'll find them.

Humanity just happened to be the lucky* ones to get to space on a somewhat faster timeline thanks to the Supervision Army ship crash landing on Earth.

*Actual luck may be debatable...given it nearly caused our extinction too.

Oh there almost certainly are a fair few of them kicking around... though I think a few folks are jumping to conclusions about some of what we see in the episodes thus far. Like the alleged cat-girl. The Ragnans seem to have gone all-in for cat-related merch for tourists, so the cat tail may simply be part of someone's outfit rather than indicative of an actual catgirl species for instance. (Or the fin-eared girl... we see them literally selling fake fins on the street, so those may just be an outlandish pair of earrings.)

[Zinjo]

If we know the size of the Valks, can you use the ones on the deck as a measure?

The deck looks longer than the quarter's from frontier, and hence the whole ship would be larger.

Maybe its the new Macross Half . It is certainly larger than a Quarter and sports twin fold capable larger carrier arms instead of a gun ship arm.

Perhaps it is a new class after all. If the size comparisons on this thread are accurate maybe this world was colonized by a standard sized colony fleet instead of the "supers" we've become accustomed to since M7?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[Rbstr]

Maybe its the new Macross Half . It is certainly larger than a Quarter and sports twin fold capable larger carrier arms instead of a gun ship arm.

Which sort of brings up another question.

It's a Macross-type ship, it has to have a macross-type canon. Does it drop an ARMD? Does it go back to the tuning-fork over the shoulder?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Rbstr

[wmkjr]

Maybe the carriers have built in canons that are exposed when it splits/folds?

[Mr March]

The VF-31 has an awesome cockpit ladder! I know this is a silly mecha geek thing to notice, but its amazing. Single forward hinge – with a collapsing side and rungs, all moved by a single piston – mounted upon the underside of the left leading edge extension of the forward nose. It's such a small detail, but it's so thoughtfully designed. It's shown in the scene where Hayate is on deck looking at Mirage's VF-31 Siegfried.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Mr March

[Raptor One]

After watching the second ep with subs (well, I started at least), I have to say that Hayate no longer reminds me of Alto so much as Michael, without the womanizing tendencies. He has the same way of taking pleasure in getting under people's skin. I was pretty fond of Alto in Frontier but I'm really liking Hayate's personality so far as well. He seems way more fun-loving and less of a prude (couldn't think of a better word) than Alto.

I just wish there were better encodes of the show

Same here

I have nothing to add other than I like the eay this Macross ship looks compared to the Quarter. I hope carrier mode isn't similar because I despise the Quarters carrier look even more.

Ugh, worst carrier mode ever

[ManhattanProject972]

Maybe the carriers have built in canons that are exposed when it splits/folds?

It better, if the Elysium doesn't punch something by the end of this series I will be very sad .

[tout-puissant]

The Macross Quarter transformation was really just half-squatting and sticking the arms and legs out. Bascially the same thing as Battle 7 / Frontier / Galaxy but with less parts actually touching each other. If the Elysium ends up being a scaled-up Quarter in design, I'd expect it to have the same transformation as well - the limbs in the screenshots do not look like they come together in any meaningful way.

But who knows? For all we know, Elysium could be an OLDER design and the Quarter is in fact a scaled DOWN version of it! No one's really blinked at its size or design, and Quarter made Alto jump because it was small and yet packed such a punch. Not that it makes much of a difference, all Macross ships have kicked ass in each of their respective series...

Mark

[anime52k8]

The VF-31 has an awesome cockpit ladder! I know this is a silly mecha geek thing to notice, but its amazing. Single forward hinge – with a collapsing side and rungs, all moved by a single piston – mounted upon the underside of the left leading edge extension of the forward nose. It's such a small detail, but it's so thoughtfully designed. It's shown in the scene where Hayate is on deck looking at Mirage's VF-31 Siegfried.

It's 100% exactly the same ladder as on the F-18:

[David Hingtgen]

It's 100% exactly the same ladder as on the F-18:

Darn it, you posted it before I could!

But yeah, it's totally a Hornet's ladder.

[JB0]

It's 100% exactly the same ladder as on the F-18:

Moral of the story: All the technology in the galaxy can't improve on a perfect mechanism.

[Zinjo]

The Macross Quarter transformation was really just half-squatting and sticking the arms and legs out. Bascially the same thing as Battle 7 / Frontier / Galaxy but with less parts actually touching each other. If the Elysium ends up being a scaled-up Quarter in design, I'd expect it to have the same transformation as well - the limbs in the screenshots do not look like they come together in any meaningful way.

But who knows? For all we know, Elysium could be an OLDER design and the Quarter is in fact a scaled DOWN version of it! No one's really blinked at its size or design, and Quarter made Alto jump because it was small and yet packed such a punch. Not that it makes much of a difference, all Macross ships have kicked ass in each of their respective series...

Mark

Now that would make sense! Ragna looks like a more established colony and the Macross Quarter is a "new" Macross design that apparently first saw combat only 6 years prior..

Edited April 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[Saruta]

watched Episode 2 too. (The sub with mercats; encode seemed pretty nice to me).

Apparently, Mikumo's artificial origin (or significant enhancement) is confirmed in the OP:

This brings me to peace with the antics of the Walkure in Episode 1. I still suspect Mikumo is in for a heavy dose of pineapple salad, though. She is overpowered and Freyja needs to shine in the story. So she might be the mentor whose loss will propel Freyja's character development (as happened with Roy and Hikaru).

Hologram tech has improved to the point of working on a person in normal clothing, not a special body suit like what Sheryl wore. Worked even on Freyja who definitely had nothing special on. Also seems to be able to provide full invisibility? Pushes disbelief boundary a bit, but Overtechnology is so Overtechnology.

The music is... nothing special. Not the charming oldtime simplicity of the original Macross, not the powerful art of Yoko Kanno in its various forms, and not the sheer rock badass of Fukuyama in M7. I have to say I learned to appreciate Frontier music more in comparison. Ikenai Borderline is catchy, though. (My dreams of seeing Kajiura in, now that Kanno left, have not materialized, but I don't think Kajiura would be compatible with this setting anyway).

The story is getting interesting with just the right amount of quotes. Mirage is channeling both her granny *and* Misa in a compelling mix. Freyja - Ranka on emotional steroids (who would think that were even possible...) with a few pieces of badass that the original Ranka missed? (Freyja's animation gets OTT periodically but this mught be justified).

In the triangle I'm probably rooting for Freyja simply because I don't want a repeat of the first Macross, where Misa won. There isn't much of a triangle yet though, apart from the opening. It's sure to come in force soon enough.

(That, or a yuri resolution, because a bit of yuri is always good - but Frontier was better for main triangle yuri, as Hayate seems much more stable and less likely to be seen as redundant than Alto. So I guess I'd better ship the Walkure girls instead, some fuel seems to be provided intentionally).

EDIT. Just realized the umineko/seacats might be partially, along with the Japanese, inspired by the Russian language, which calls seals "sea cats" ("morskoi kotik", and "kotik" is a dimunitive of "kot" - tomcat, so more like "sea tomkitties" or something). The seacats seem to have seal-like limbs.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Saruta

[Kelsain]

Re holographic tech:

I assumed Kaname was calling in from the office, after monitoring the test. I didn't get the impression that she was invisible. As for Frejya's outfit, perhaps it was projected from the floor? At least until she gets her own equipment.

What I also wondered in that scene was: why do the windows black out in an emergency? Who's idea was that? Or are they projected images of the outside, and not actually windows? Again, who's idea was that?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Kelsain

[Graham]

I think the Windows blacking out was done on purpose to prevent Freya looking outside and seeing that everything in the city looked normal and realising in fact their was no VAR outbreak.

[Raptor One]

Re holographic tech:

I assumed Kaname was calling in from the office, after monitoring the test. I didn't get the impression that she was invisible. As for Frejya's outfit, perhaps it was projected from the floor? At least until she gets her own equipment.

Yup, Kaname was doing her Star Wars hologram thing, not her Invisible (Wo)Man thing. As for Frejya. She was in an enclosed environment and it's pretty clear the floor had some sort of holographic projector. I doubt such a projection would be possible with her regular clothes in an outside environment.

And I feel like I remember seeing holographic projections over regular clothes in a shopping mall as far back as DYRL

[Karaoke Ninja]

Hologram tech has improved to the point of working on a person in normal clothing, not a special body suit like what Sheryl wore. Worked even on Freyja who definitely had nothing special on. Also seems to be able to provide full invisibility? Pushes disbelief boundary a bit, but Overtechnology is so Overtechnology.

We've seen it before in the Frontier movies with the audience during one of Ranka's concerts.

2:11

[Saruta]

I think the Windows blacking out was done on purpose to prevent Freya looking outside and seeing that everything in the city looked normal and realising in fact their was no VAR outbreak.

I think so too. This was not a real emergency, this was a specially equipped carriage for Walkure purposes.

I have a different question though - what race is the green captain from? He seems to be about 4 meters tall, which is only half Zentraedi size.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Saruta

[kajnrig]

Speaking of the holotech, is it purely visual or does the projection technology provide some form of force feedback, too? Characters constantly act aware of their outfits, and I wonder if it's because the holograms have physical presence or it's all just for dramatic effect.

[ManhattanProject972]

I think so too. This was not a real emergency, this was a specially equipped carriage for Walkure purposes.

I have a different question though - what race is the green captain from? He seems to be about 4 meters tall, which is only half Zentraedi size.

He's half Zentradi and human with an opposite case of what Klan had.

[d3v]

I have a different question though - what race is the green captain from? He seems to be about 4 meters tall, which is only half Zentraedi size.

Maybe he's just a really tall Zentraedi. Like a micronized version of the tall commander ones like Britai.

[Sildani]

That's something that annoyed me. Captain Johnson is the commander of Elysion, and he had to sit in a chair sized for a normal human? And drink from a normal mug? Come off it. His entrance was enough; he doesn't need to descend into caricature.

[d3v]

That's something that annoyed me. Captain Johnson is the commander of Elysion, and he had to sit in a chair sized for a normal human? And drink from a normal mug? Come off it. His entrance was enough; he doesn't need to descend into caricature.

Maybe he's just not the type for special treatment. The type who "goes, if my men can use these chairs and mugs, then I should be able to do so too".

I still suspect Mikumo is in for a heavy dose of pineapple salad, though. She is overpowered and Freyja needs to shine in the story. So she might be the mentor whose loss will propel Freyja's character development (as happened with Roy and Hikaru).

If anyone's waving any pineapple salad flags among the Walkure, IMO it's Kaname with whatever it is that's going on between her and Messer.

Actually, it could be either of them. The moment one of them starts talking about confessing, or talks about the danger of confessing to someone in the middle of a war, then you can expect one of them to get stabbed and then spaced.

Edited April 13, 2016 by d3v

[kajnrig]

Maybe he's just not the type for special treatment. The type who "goes, if my men can use these chairs and mugs, then I should be able to do so too".

If anyone's waving any pineapple salad flags among the Walkure, IMO it's Kaname with whatever it is that's going on between her and Messer.

Actually, it could be either of them. The moment one of them starts talking about confessing, or talks about the danger of confessing to someone in the middle of a war, then you can expect one of them to get stabbed and then spaced.

Or do they?

[frothymug]

Saw it. It's an improvement over episode 1, for sure. Not sure if the Mirage/Hayate thing in the OP is just a fake-out. You know how much SK loves to troll his audience.

[RedWolf]

Thinking about it Chaos could be a PMC or private army for Barrette City emigration fleet in the same sense Macross Galaxy Corporate Army was for Macross Galaxy.

Macross Elysion is not exactly a Battle class but given it's legs it is possible to connect to a City class docking port.

[d3v]

Saw it. It's an improvement over episode 1, for sure. Not sure if the Mirage/Hayate thing in the OP is just a fake-out. You know how much SK loves to troll his audience.

Well, it has the whole Max/Millia parralel going on with it, plus tsundere hijinks. You know they love their tsundere hijinks.