Macross Δ (Delta) - Mission 1 - READ 1st POST

[Seto Kaiba]

Whoa whoa whoa/---an entire episode of Macross 7 Plus was focused on Gamlin's G-training and how strenuous it was----and that was in a VF-11. And I'm pretty sure I recall Alto getting thrown around in the cockpit during hard maneuvers in his -25. So I doubt that the -31 could just magically completely eliminate G-forces. Especially for people outside the cockpit.

Well, yes... we see both in the main Macross 7 series and in Macross 7 Plus's "TOP GAMRIN" that Gamlin underwent some g-force stress training as part of basic training, and some more when he became suitably PO'd about being shown up by Basara, but that was before Valkyries equipped with inertia controllers were the emerging standard.

Alto got knocked about a bit during hard maneuvering in his VF-25, but it's worth remembering what constitutes" hard maneuvering". The ISC on the VF-25 has the ability to insulate the craft against g-loads up to 27.5G (per official spec), and the YF-29's is good for up to 30G. If he's feeling the strain, he's over the ISC's limit... which means he's potentially pulling the kind of g-forces that'd cause a VF-19 to break up in midair. The YF-30's ISC is supposed to be comparable to the YF-29's, and the VF-31's may be even better.

We don't see Delta Platoon's VF-31's pulling any extreme maneuvers on the ground with Walkure's members around... they take it nice and easy until they're up in the air. It doesn't seem at all unreasonable that a VF capable of damping 30G's or more would be able to insulate a passenger from a low-speed low-altitude cruise at automobile speeds.

Delta don't, and I'm not talking about the Sailor Moon transformation, I'm talking about the dancing with Valkyries, the VF-31 entrances like if they were in a concert in stupid formations, Valks without gunpods, etc, etc, etc.

... I'll admit the showmanship on Delta Platoon's part is something we haven't really seen much of in Macross (barring some minor showboating on Alto's part and the on-the-ground antics of the Hamming Jamming Birds), but I'd like to point out the VF-31 does in fact have a gun pod. Like the VF-2SS, VF-14, VF-17, VF-171, VF-22, etc., its gun pod is stored internally. What the VF-31 does differently is that the gun pod is stored in the fighter's ordinance container (the big pod on the back) rather than in a leg or arm bay. We've yet to see it held in the hand in the show, but print materials have confirmed that it is in fact a hand-held gun pod. Kind of two-for-the-price-of-one, really... you get the functionality of a Tornado Pack when it's stowed, and a regular gun pod when it's not. For your convenience, the link below is to the cover of Figure King 215, showing Hayate's VF-31J holding the gun pod in its hand.

http://st.cdjapan.co.jp/pictures/l/02/35/NEOBK-1898555.jpg

Let's do an exercise, see the first episode of Macross Plus and then see the episode of Delta, a totally different anime. I know, M + is an anime of the 90's, but Sailor Moon too. The new Valkyries (VF-31) is nice as a fighter, but as Battroid is truly ugly, skinny and without gunpod, seriously ???

Macross Plus is kind of an unfair title to compare any other Macross to, as Macross Plus is almost Macross in name only... it has so little in common with the other shows.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Duymon]

Macross Plus is kind of an unfair title to compare any other Macross to, as Macross Plus is almost Macross in name only... it has so little in common with the other shows.

*tosses Seto Flame Suit. Ducks down into Fallout Shelter.

[Zinjo]

That being said, I really really loved Macross Zero. Yes, I am aware that the aspects of mysticism and magic caused a lot of fans to generate disdain for that series. However, it was presented in such a way that this "power" was subtle; it was some mysterious essence hidden away from the eyes of modern man. It wasn't thrown in your face from the start. Rather, it was gradually integrated into the story as both the MC and audience learned more about this ancient... religion, for lack of a better term.

I always found this assertion as ridiculous! IMO, there were far more instances of magic in M7 than Zero.

[David Hingtgen]

Nah, Zero has way more "magic" as in different types from different sources. (Always totally unexplained) This became apparent in later viewings. M7 just has "anima spiritia".

Seto--/those are valid points, I'll have to research/think more about valks and G's.

[joscasle]

Macross Plus is kind of an unfair title to compare any other Macross to, as Macross Plus is almost Macross in name only... it has so little in common with the other shows.

Ok, take SDFM then, 80's anime , first episode "Booby trap", mmm... same setting, or almost city warfare, Zentradi pods, Valkyrie aerial fights, humor, etc...

[Zinjo]

Nah, Zero has way more "magic" as in different types from different sources. (Always totally unexplained) This became apparent in later viewings. M7 just has "anima spiritia".

Seto--/those are valid points, I'll have to research/think more about valks and G's.

Maybe I'm missing something regarding M0.

You have gravity controlled rocks which seemed to be controlled by the AFOS head when Sarah sang.

A flying totem (this one I concede)

What else?

[Seto Kaiba]

*tosses Seto Flame Suit. Ducks down into Fallout Shelter.

LOL! I appreciate the thought, but I think I'll be OK.

Macross Plus isn't a bad OVA by any means (in fact I think it's fantastic), but it's just not really on the same page with the rest of the Macross franchise on a thematic level. The rest of Macross puts the love story and the music front and center, while the war aspect is kind of an expensive sideshow there to inject drama into the romance proceedings. Macross Plus goes the other way, using the physical business of Isamu and Guld's personal conflict as the core of the story, and reducing the music and the love triangle to an afterthought. Instead of being important because of the power of song and communication, Sharon's important to Macross Plus because she's a crazy killer robot.

Delta is much more in the mold of a traditional Macross show, with the music and the romance aspects front and center, and a more upbeat, optimistic tone. Some characters will die, and some will assuredly attend the school of hard knocks, but we'll have an uplifting ending at the finale.

Nah, Zero has way more "magic" as in different types from different sources. (Always totally unexplained) This became apparent in later viewings. M7 just has "anima spiritia".

Seto--/those are valid points, I'll have to research/think more about valks and G's.

I'd have to agree there... Zero is the only Macross title in which we got "supernatural" phenomena without any kind of accompanying scientific explanation. It's probably related to fold song and/or spiritia, but they never actually make the connection... whereas in the later shows (chronologically speaking, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Delta) that sort of thing is firmly placed in the realm of science immediately after being introduced.

Anima spiritia and fold song can produce some effects that seem magical to the uninitiated, but the shows are all very definite about them being quantifiable, controllable, phenomena that function on higher-dimension physics. They're associated with the presence and flow of higher-dimension energy that can be measured, stored, tuned, amplified, and can be repeatably used to achieve certain effects.

Whether that constitutes "sufficiently advanced science" or "sufficiently analyzed magic" is a YMMV thing, but the shows lean quite heavily toward the former. I'll say that, in practice, anima spiritia and fold song seem to be pointing toward humanity and the other sentient races all having an intrinsic mental/spiritual/emotional connection to super dimension space, and some special individuals having the ability to actively tap into that connection and some individuals using artificial means to increase their ability to use that energy like biological amplification (Sheryl and Ranka) or technological amplification (Sound Force). It sounds kind of like The Warp from Warhammer 40,000 when if you think about it that way... though without the "it's kind of actually literally hell and monsters in it will eat your soul" part. Well, actually... wouldn't the Protodeviln be the soul-eating monsters part?

Delta's Walkure seems to be pretty well-equipped to detect other individuals with similar abilities to their own... after all,

they pick up Freyja pretty much right away once she gets fired up.

Since fold song seems to be used by both sides as a weaponized ability, I expect we'll probably get a more in-depth exploration of it in the coming episodes. I'm betting that Walkure's audition includes specific tests for a person's fold wave-emitting abilities.

Ok, take SDFM then, 80's anime , first episode "Booby trap", mmm... same setting, or almost city warfare, Zentradi pods, Valkyrie aerial fights, humor, etc...

Very similar, yes.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[joscasle]

Very similar, yes.

Do the exercise!! ! I already done it, similar aspects very different anime!!! SDFM is more militia oriented, Delta at least in these episode is no at all, its like a rainbow warfare, lots and lots of colors (even the Valks).

Lets hope Delta improve with the next episode. BTW I don't think Macross is just about the TOYS, like some people think.

Edited April 7, 2016 by joscasle

[frothymug]

Yeah Seto, you've been an invaluable source of information and well-educated opinion. However, I think you're off the mark this time when you say that Delta follows the same formula as all the other Macross shows. Those of us who are critical of Delta are telling you that it's not the same; something feels way off point. That's pretty much all it boils down to. Take from that as you will.

And FWIW, I will still watch Delta to see if things get back on track a little bit. We criticize because we love.

Edited April 7, 2016 by frothymug

[PrimumMobile]

People really missed the entire point of macross and treated it is a realistic gritty war drama and space opera. This is the show with ridiculous space tuna fishing. Valkyrie putting on giant trousers and using a gunpod to light a giant cigar. Macross is silly franchise plain and simple. Plus is the exception not the rule

Edited April 7, 2016 by PrimumMobile

[Duymon]

People really missed the entire point of macross and treated it is a realistic gritty war drama and space opera. This is the show with ridiculous space tuna fishing. Valkyrie putting on giant trousers and using a gunpod to light a giant cigar. Macross is silly franchise plain and simple. Plus is the exception not the rule

Oh, I'm sorry... I totally thought SFDM was a dark, gritty war story where the entire population of an island is forced to flee on a spaceship, wander the earth looking for a place to accept their refugees, only to end up being the remnants of humanity after space aliens nearly commit a full genocide of the human race. My Bad.

I suppose DYRL was supposed to be a comedy too right?

We have to forget Macross 0 as well. That was goofy as hell when weird stuff like pilots getting splattered in their cockpits or shot after they crashlanded happened. I was like... totally ROFL the entire time.

Even Macross Frontier has serious overtones as a macross colony comes close to being totally wiped out by ancient space aliens, only to be saved by the foldwaves created by two songstresses.

Macross 7.... er.. ok I'll sorta give you that one.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Duymon

[Karaoke Ninja]

Oh, I'm sorry... I totally thought SFDM was a dark, gritty war story where the entire population of an island is forced to flee on a spaceship, wander the earth looking for a place to accept their refugees, only to end up being the remnants of humanity after space aliens nearly commit a full genocide of the human race. My Bad.

I suppose DYRL was supposed to be a comedy too right?

We have to forget Macross 0 as well. That was goofy as hell when weird stuff like pilots getting splattered in their cockpits or shot after they crashlanded happened. I was like... totally ROFL the entire time.

Even Macross Frontier has serious overtones as a macross colony comes close to being totally wiped out by ancient space aliens, only to be saved by the foldwaves created by two songstresses.

Macross 7.... er.. ok I'll sorta give you that one.

They all have serious tones but they even the original isn't gritty at all. At the end of the day it's a show where a teenage girl is singing pop songs to an alien race. Macross has always been mostly silly at heart. The exception being Zero and that's the worst mainly because it was too serious.

[Zinjo]

I'd have to agree there... Zero is the only Macross title in which we got "supernatural" phenomena without any kind of accompanying scientific explanation. It's probably related to fold song and/or spiritia, but they never actually make the connection... whereas in the later shows (chronologically speaking, Macross 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Delta) that sort of thing is firmly placed in the realm of science immediately after being introduced.

Anima spiritia and fold song can produce some effects that seem magical to the uninitiated, but the shows are all very definite about them being quantifiable, controllable, phenomena that function on higher-dimension physics. They're associated with the presence and flow of higher-dimension energy that can be measured, stored, tuned, amplified, and can be repeatably used to achieve certain effects.

Whether that constitutes "sufficiently advanced science" or "sufficiently analyzed magic" is a YMMV thing, but the shows lean quite heavily toward the former. I'll say that, in practice, anima spiritia and fold song seem to be pointing toward humanity and the other sentient races all having an intrinsic mental/spiritual/emotional connection to super dimension space, and some special individuals having the ability to actively tap into that connection and some individuals using artificial means to increase their ability to use that energy like biological amplification (Sheryl and Ranka) or technological amplification (Sound Force). It sounds kind of like The Warp from Warhammer 40,000 when if you think about it that way... though without the "it's kind of actually literally hell and monsters in it will eat your soul" part. Well, actually... wouldn't the Protodeviln be the soul-eating monsters part?

Zero came after M7 and I agree that no direct correlation to "song energy" is made, though "Anima Spiritia" was less a quantifiable phenomena than it was a descriptor for those who possessed the natural ability to harness what I can only "now" consider might be "fold song" or super dimensional communication. In M0 most of the phenomena appeared to be directly related to the presence of the AFOS and the technology it possessed. Now if the AFOS is of the same generation of bio-weaponry tech that created the EVIL series, it possessed very advanced abilities and tech tha to the human eye would certainly appear very much like magic...

[kajnrig]

I dunno, I sort of think you're all right to a certain degree. All the elements in this first episode were present in other series as well. The psychedelic visuals, the suspension of physics, and on and on. Basically everything Seto and Duke were arguing about. It's all been done before, to varying degrees. I'd go so far as to say that some episodes of Frontier topped this one in terms of sheer outlandish bombast. The movies certainly did. Is it a departure from "Macross norm"? You could spin it that way, but only insofar as it does all of the bombast all at once. It comes smothered in pop culture excess, and can seem overwhelming when compared to the rest of the franchise. But like others have said, it's only the first episode. Things will probably level off with time... or not, considering this is Macross and things only tend to get more chaotic.

I remember watching Frontier and hating, absolutely hating, that it was Macross in name only. What is this "Another High School Anime (Complete With Its Very Own Panty Episode)" doing? How can it possibly be talked about in the same breath as M+ and SDFM? Frontier was MY Delta. I thought the main characters were terrible anime stereotypes, I thought the mecha combat was uninspired, the CGI was boring and poorly implemented, and the EX Gear was the stupidest thing to ever come out of the series. It wasn't enough that the AIRPLANES could transform, now the PILOTS had to, too?

I mean, I got over it, but it was only for recognizing the phenomenon for what it was: Macross becoming mainstream. Macross WAS changing, and I could either change to accept it or not and abandon it. I chose the former, and I didn't particularly suffer for it. Do I think it's one of the weaker entries in the franchise? Yes, but then that's only because SDFM and M+ set the bar so high. Next to Zero and 7, it's no better or worse.

So here comes Delta, and while I think that pretty much all of the critique has merit, I also don't see those critiques as necessarily being worth addressing.

Anyway. My two cents.

Edited April 7, 2016 by kajnrig

[Seto Kaiba]

Do the exercise!! ! I already done it, similar aspects very different anime!!! SDFM is more militia oriented, Delta at least in these episode is no at all, its like a rainbow warfare, lots and lots of colors (even the Valks).

I've done the analysis several times... and, apart from Plus, I get the same result every time. Macross Delta is very much in the mold of your typical Macross series. Older fans sometimes cling to this myth of the original series being a gritty war drama, something even Kawamori himself has refuted. As Kawamori put it, Macross is a love story which uses those battles as a backdrop. There's always been an air of strained realism and no shortage of silliness.

I look at Delta's first episode and I see essentially the same thing I saw in the original's first episode. All the classic Macross tropes are present and accounted for. We've got a naturally talented but withdrawn young man who will join the military (or a paramilitary force, whatever Chaos is) to protect a young, slightly selfish girl who dreams of being an idol after falling into the cockpit of a transforming fighter at the outbreak of an interstellar conflict and gradually ends up growing closer both to that young girl and an older, professional woman who he serves alongside.

Almost everything we see in Delta's first episode is building upon an aspect of a previous Macross story. Walkure is essentially another go with the Jamming Birds but with their sh*t together this time. Fold song is anima spiritia all over again, built on terms and tech from both 7 and Frontier. There are hints that the enemy is using songs to drive their ad hoc soldiers into a berserker rage ala Macross II. Delta Platoon's got the usual formula of The Big Brother, The Ace, The Clown, and The Natural, though this time there's two of that last one.

Point is... the visual style has changed somewhat, but that's about all that has changed and it's no more than we would expect from a long-running series like Macross. They update the look to stay current with the times. The substance is very much Macross as we have long known it.

The things people are complaining about are the same things we've seen in an assortment of previous titles, with just some slight differences in how the show presents them.

However, I think you're off the mark this time when you say that Delta follows the same formula as all the other Macross shows. Those of us who are critical of Delta are telling you that it's not the same; something feels way off point. That's pretty much all it boils down to. Take from that as you will.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll say that I have yet to see a cogent argument about why they're not the same. Lots of complaints and lots of demonstrably-flawed examples, but I haven't seen anyone table an actual reason for being so very unhappy with the show other than, perhaps, that it's not aimed at the 30 or 40-something "oldtaku" in the west who remember the original as being rather more gritty and dark than it actually was.

It'd be easier to understand the other side of the argument if I had more to go on than just the erroneous carping about magical girls and some nitpicks that are explainable via technologies that are well-established in the universe of the shows. So I'm stuck sitting here going "you all loved this stuff and you suspended disbelief for it in previous shows X, Y, and Z, but it's not OK in this one for no clear reason?".

[Zinjo]

I mean, I got over it, but it was only for recognizing the phenomenon for what it was: Macross becoming mainstream. Macross WAS changing, and I could either change to accept it or not and abandon it. I chose the former, and I didn't particularly suffer for it. Do I think it's one of the weaker entries in the franchise? Yes, but then that's only because SDFM and M+ set the bar so high. Next to Zero and 7, it's no better or worse.

Well put. I am not sure how "mainstream" Macross is becoming, but if it is a TV series, it most definitely will be following the mainstream trends than not. Series are expensive and, very much like big tent pole movies, are often developed by committee with all the sponsor stake holders wanting a solid return on their investments. OVA's tend to have more freedom and latitude to explore more serious topics since they are less expensive to produce and require fewer sponsors. The trouble is they don't get the same level of attention that series' do and therefore may not be as well known to the casual fan base.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Zero came after M7 and I agree that no direct correlation to "song energy" is made, though "Anima Spiritia" was less a quantifiable phenomena than it was a descriptor for those who possessed the natural ability to harness what I can only "now" consider might be "fold song" or super dimensional communication.

I know Zero came after 7 in production terms, but I'm talking about the in-universe(s) continuity. Humanity hadn't quantified any of the things that would eventually provide potential explanations for the phenomena connected to Sara and Mao in throughout Macross Zero's story. Sara and Mao's abilities get stuck with the label of "magic" because the world the characters exist in was still about thirty years off from having an understanding of higher-dimension physics sufficient to start explaining what happened in purely scientific terms.

Now, in Delta's "present day" of 2067, it seems like the understanding of a living being's ties to higher dimensions is still developing. Whether there's a physiological component to Var syndrome remains to be revealed, but we could be looking at what amounts to a weaponized sickness of the spirit... and since 7 suggested a person's natural higher-dimension energy can have a distinct polarity, it stands to reason that what can be used to heal could also be used to hurt.

[Zinjo]

Now, in Delta's "present day" of 2067, it seems like the understanding of a living being's ties to higher dimensions is still developing. Whether there's a physiological component to Var syndrome remains to be revealed, but we could be looking at what amounts to a weaponized sickness of the spirit... and since 7 suggested a person's natural higher-dimension energy can have a distinct polarity, it stands to reason that what can be used to heal could also be used to hurt.

That could be an interesting idea. The negative side to Anima Spiritia first introduced in M7.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll say that I have yet to see a cogent argument about why they're not the same. Lots of complaints and lots of demonstrably-flawed examples, but I haven't seen anyone table an actual reason for being so very unhappy with the show other than, perhaps, that it's not aimed at the 30 or 40-something "oldtaku" in the west who remember the original as being rather more gritty and dark than it actually was.

Well it "was" dark and gritty compared to it's contemporaries of the day, excluding Gundam.

Not as dark as say OVA's of the era, but for a TV series it more grounded in reality than most, particularly with respect to how mecha was designed and treated.

[azrael]

Yeah, I'm still sticking with "We have at least 24 more weeks of this before I declare how Macross-y this show is."

[Falconkpd]

What's not plausible? A guy dancing around in a labor mecha as if it was weightless. Magical girls riding Valkyries as if inertia and g-forces didn't exist. Said girls also have a shielding technology that they can move on command, yet no one else outside of this special unit seems to have this tech. A single squadron of fighters taking out a planetary defense fleet, yet they are unable to dispatch four Valkyries on the planet's surface. Also, said fighters' pilots flying with no suits or helmets on, and without harnesses to keep them secure in their cockpits. Again, inertia and gravity seem to be completely disregarded. And to top it off, dancing mecha guy gets in a downed Valkyrie and all of a sudden he's moving it around like he's Neo.

Did I miss anything?

What's not plausible? Brainwave technology controlling fighters as if it were nothing. A single Cyber idol taking over an entire city. Said Cyber girl projecting holograms out of nowhere, yet nowhere else do we see this tech applied. A single Valkyrie breaks through the entire Earth defense fleet and yet has trouble taking on an AI controlled drone. Also, said pilot takes his helmet off in the middle of combat yet still hears radio transmissions from the Idol and his girlfriend. And to top it all off, the crazy mecha guy keeps flying after ramming his fighter through the SDF like nothing.

Did I miss anything?

[kajnrig]

Brainwave technology controlling fighters as if it were nothing.

...

A single Valkyrie breaks through the entire Earth defense fleet and yet has trouble taking on an AI controlled drone.

1.) I thought the point was that it WASN'T practical? Or at least not yet?

2.) Also, both fighters and the Ghost were testbeds for active stealth tech, right? So it would make a certain amount of sense that they could both break through orbital defense systems using currently-existing technology (though I suppose Isamu does sort of have to brute-force it anyhow given he gets detected right away) yet have trouble with each other.

[Falconkpd]

1.) I thought the point was that it WASN'T practical? Or at least not yet?

2.) Also, both fighters and the Ghost were testbeds for active stealth tech, right? So it would make a certain amount of sense that they could both break through orbital defense systems using currently-existing technology (though I suppose Isamu does sort of have to brute-force it anyhow given he gets detected right away) yet have trouble with each other.

My point is that wacky stuff happens in EVERY Macross. Delta is no exception.

Besides, why does reality have to have such an impact on a cartoon anyway?

[VF5SS]

FalconKPD's point is that there's still a big blindspot regarding how the far out stuff in Plus is viewed versus when the same thing happens in other Macross shows.

[Valkyrie Griffon]

So I voted to see results....people liked this? I mean really??? The CG looks way more glaring compared to the "cel" anime than it did in Macross Frontier. And the idols go into battle with the valks?!?! And the Valks pose and dance for dramatic effect during parts of the songs?!?! WTF is this nonsense....

[Falconkpd]

FalconKPD's point is that there's still a big blindspot regarding how the far out stuff in Plus is viewed versus when the same thing happens in other Macross shows.

What he said

[Neoka]

Do You Remember Fun?

[Einherjar]

Machida punch!

(Yes, punch is now part of his name)

Could the meme actually be true?

Granted, he was protecting a songstress, but you always protect the songstress before going to town on someone.

[PrimumMobile]

War, death and genocide does not make a show gritty. There are countless works out there that have all those and are not gritty war dramas.

Lord of the Rings is the biggest example.

Avatar: The Last Airbender has all those elements but hardly call it a gritty war story..

Theory Time!

The Windemere apples are actually spreading a substance that triggers the Var Syndrome when the infected hear the Var Song.

Edited April 8, 2016 by PrimumMobile

[kajnrig]

My point is that wacky stuff happens in EVERY Macross. Delta is no exception.

Besides, why does reality have to have such an impact on a cartoon anyway?

FalconKPD's point is that there's still a big blindspot regarding how the far out stuff in Plus is viewed versus when the same thing happens in other Macross shows.

I know, I was just parsing the fine details.

The CG looks way more glaring compared to the "cel" anime than it did in Macross Frontier.

I really liked the look of Hayate's 171, but that was probably due to the vibrant tan coloring. I agree, the CGI work for the most part still leaves a lot to be desired. It's a step up from what it was before (and I'd call it a major improvement over Frontier), but they could stand to make the Valks a bit more vibrant to stand out against the dark backgrounds. There's still no beating M+.

Edited April 8, 2016 by kajnrig

[anime52k8]

Oh, I'm sorry... I totally thought SFDM was a dark, gritty war story where the entire population of an island is forced to flee on a spaceship, wander the earth looking for a place to accept their refugees, only to end up being the remnants of humanity after space aliens nearly commit a full genocide of the human race. My Bad.

no, not really. SDF:M was about shooting a cheesy kung fu movie; having a fabulous space wedding complete with giant robot honor guard, and a ship turning into a giant robot so it can punch another ship with it's arm that is also a ship.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll say that I have yet to see a cogent argument about why they're not the same. Lots of complaints and lots of demonstrably-flawed examples, but I haven't seen anyone table an actual reason for being so very unhappy with the show other than, perhaps, that it's not aimed at the 30 or 40-something "oldtaku" in the west who remember the original as being rather more gritty and dark than it actually was.

I think a lot of these people aren't so much fans of Macross as they are fans of a thing that looks like Macross but is completely lacking the soul and character that made Macross good in the first place.

:edit:

what I don't get is why some people are so dead set against the idea of a humanoid robot that can moves like a human.

Edited April 8, 2016 by anime52k8

[Karaoke Ninja]

no, not really. SDF:M was about shooting a cheesy kung fu movie; having a fabulous space wedding complete with giant robot honor guard, and a ship turning into a giant robot so it can punch another ship with it's arm that is also a ship.

I think a lot of these people arn't so much fans of Macross as they are fans of a thing that looks like Macross but is completely lacking the soul and character that made Macross good in the first place.

:edit:

what I don't get is why some people are so dead set against the idea of a humanoid robot that can moves like a human.

Don't forget giant robot wearing giant alien clothing as a disguise and giant aliens riding giant robots like a horse.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Karaoke Ninja

[PrimumMobile]

IMO it's not fair to compare the animation of a high budget 4 episode OVA to 2-3 cour TV series on a TV budget. Of course DYRL and M+ are king in animation due to the nature of their production. I'd rather TV series compared to other TV series.

[Dio]

Theory Time!

The Windemere apples are actually spreading a substance that triggers the Var Syndrome when the infected hear the Var Song.

Would the mods be up for a limited time "Predictions Time Capsule" thread where we can each make one post of predictions about the series, the thread remains open say, up thru the 3rd episode, then it gets locked down until after the final episode? I recall some great speculation about Frontier (several points which I nailed early on) but it ended up scattered through multiple feedback threads and there was never a good follow-up review.

[BlueMax]

Theory Time!

The Windemere apples are actually spreading a substance that triggers the Var Syndrome when the infected hear the Var Song.

I'm also of the opinion that there is something fishy about those apples from Windemere

[iguanaman8989]

I'm also of the opinion that there is something fishy about those apples from Windemere

Chekhov's Gun:

First thing we see is a guy eating the apple before going berserk. Not counting the other associations between apples and Windemere that they've brought up.

Edited April 8, 2016 by iguanaman8989