Yamato 2202

[kalvasflam]

The story is totally screwed up as far as the space battles and logic goes.

A good story is something like MSG the Origin, the first few episodes where there was very few variants of mobile suits.  2199 was pretty consistent in terms of the mechanics if you think about it, Gamilas had a huge fleet which was built partly during Desslar's conquests.  The Earth fleet was pretty pathetic.   Then came 2202, and my rant.

2202 literally screwed the pooch with successive episodes, newly introduced warships are pretty quickly stormtrooperized for no discernable reason.  The Medalusa class was the most powerful ship until episode 1 which several were shown in battle.  Then came the mighty Calaklum, which was so awesome that it survived the WMG by Andromeda, and the pathetic shock cannons from Andromeda did nothing to that ship.  (Sure, go ahead and tell me the WMG missed that ship and managed to hit everything else).  By episode 7, there were millions of them, quite literally, which made the story utterly ridiculous.  Why did we need them, because whiny Kodai had to justify the use of his pathetic WMG.  Things are on a pretty even keel for a little while, because, hey, five Andromedas and some dozen dreadnoughts aren't that bad. 

I can even excuse the missile ships of idiocy in the Telezart portion of the arc.  But then came the mighty battle of Saturn.  In the original series, the Calaklums were not that numerous, led by a single Medalusa and supplemented by a lot of Kukulkans, then there was the Gatlantis carrier fleet.  In terms of fleet organization, it almost made sense, that formation seemed a lot like the dreaded third or fifth fleet in WWII.  But in 2202, what did Gatlantis bring to the party?  Nothing but Calaklums, there were so many of them, it was insane.  Oh, let's throw in a few sacrificial Nazca class ships so the Gatlantis fleet won't look too one dimensional.  It's like a battle fleet consisting of nothing but New Jersey class battleships.  But it's ok, at leas the human forces made sense, they had those new light cruisers and patrol cruisers, led by a single dreadnought and supplemented by a bunch of refitted Kongos armed with WMG.  But then, to even things out, Earth spammed dreadnoughts.

Oh, and remember when the mighty Calaklums just laughed off the Andromeda's WMG, and the shock canons couldn't even scratch the paint on those ships?  Now, they were blasted to pieces with grim regularity by the dreadnought's shock cannons, that as far as I can tell were the same type as Andromedas.  But don't worry, by episode 19, we'll up the number of specials, Andromedas by the dozens at least.  New Andromeda class with more guns, Gamilas Andromedas, Andromedas with dreadnoughts attached.  Oh, but for old time sake, we'll bring back some old Gamilas ships, and look, was that a Medalusa that was getting its ass kicked by some measly pieces of trash that was Gamilas cruisers?  How the mighty has fallen. 

But lest we forget the important thing, by episode 17, WMGs were used with such regularity, it was essentially equivalent of atomic bombs being used like conventional artillery.  If Starsha would've had the audacity to show up and lecture anyone, she would've been bitchslapped and then laughed out of town for her naivete. 

Times like this, I'm reminded of what Syndrome in the Incredibles said:   *Everyone* can be super! And when everyone's super...   ...*no one* will be.

Yamato 2202 took the lovely notion of space battles as presented in 2199, took a crap on it, and then proceeded to kick the logic out of the situation, and slathered on the needless model kit variations to sell, then for good measure pissed on the entire concept and expect everyone to fall in love because, who doesn't like useless trash (Michael Bay Transformers) mashing into each other.

end rant. 

Yes, for all that, I'll still watch the rest of 2202, I like a good train wreck.

Edited October 28, 2018 by kalvasflam

[TehPW]

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

The story is totally screwed up as far as the space battles and logic goes.

A good story is something like MSG the Origin, the first few episodes where there was very few variants of mobile suits.  2199 was pretty consistent in terms of the mechanics if you think about it, Gamilas had a huge fleet which was built partly during Desslar's conquests.  The Earth fleet was pretty pathetic.   Then came 2202, and my rant.

2202 literally screwed the pooch with successive episodes, newly introduced warships are pretty quickly stormtrooperized for no discernable reason.  The Medalusa class was the most powerful ship until episode 1 which several were shown in battle.  Then came the mighty Calaklum, which was so awesome that it survived the WMG by Andromeda, and the pathetic shock cannons from Andromeda did nothing to that ship.  (Sure, go ahead and tell me the WMG missed that ship and managed to hit everything else).  By episode 7, there were millions of them, quite literally, which made the story utterly ridiculous.  Why did we need them, because whiny Kodai had to justify the use of his pathetic WMG.  Things are on a pretty even keel for a little while, because, hey, five Andromedas and some dozen dreadnoughts aren't that bad. 

I can even excuse the missile ships of idiocy in the Telezart portion of the arc.  But then came the mighty battle of Saturn.  In the original series, the Calaklums were not that numerous, led by a single Medalusa and supplemented by a lot of Kukulkans, then there was the Gatlantis carrier fleet.  In terms of fleet organization, it almost made sense, that formation seemed a lot like the dreaded third or fifth fleet in WWII.  But in 2202, what did Gatlantis bring to the party?  Nothing but Calaklums, there were so many of them, it was insane.  Oh, let's throw in a few sacrificial Nazca class ships so the Gatlantis fleet won't look too one dimensional.  It's like a battle fleet consisting of nothing but New Jersey class battleships.  But it's ok, at leas the human forces made sense, they had those new light cruisers and patrol cruisers, led by a single dreadnought and supplemented by a bunch of refitted Kongos armed with WMG.  But then, to even things out, Earth spammed dreadnoughts.

Oh, and remember when the mighty Calaklums just laughed off the Andromeda's WMG, and the shock canons couldn't even scratch the paint on those ships?  Now, they were blasted to pieces with grim regularity by the dreadnought's shock cannons, that as far as I can tell were the same type as Andromedas.  But don't worry, by episode 19, we'll up the number of specials, Andromedas by the dozens at least.  New Andromeda class with more guns, Gamilas Andromedas, Andromedas with dreadnoughts attached.  Oh, but for old time sake, we'll bring back some old Gamilas ships, and look, was that a Medalusa that was getting its ass kicked by some measly pieces of trash that was Gamilas cruisers?  How the mighty has fallen. 

But lest we forget the important thing, by episode 17, WMGs were used with such regularity, it was essentially equivalent of atomic bombs being used like conventional artillery.  If Starsha would've had the audacity to show up and lecture anyone, she would've been bitchslapped and then laughed out of town for her naivete. 

Times like this, I'm reminded of what Syndrome in the Incredibles said:   *Everyone* can be super! And when everyone's super...   ...*no one* will be.

Yamato 2202 took the lovely notion of space battles as presented in 2199, took a crap on it, and then proceeded to kick the logic out of the situation, and slathered on the needless model kit variations to sell, then for good measure pissed on the entire concept and expect everyone to fall in love because, who doesn't like useless trash (Michael Bay Transformers) mashing into each other.

end rant. 

Yes, for all that, I'll still watch the rest of 2202, I like a good train wreck.

I totally agree.... but that's the point of the series: Holy Ship Spam, Batman! For all those ships being churned out of the Time Dilation Zone, imagine all the cars, 50" Plasma TV's, Robot Sex Dolls they could be making instead? When Anti-Matter Peace chick shows up to see Lord Zordar off (because we know she's gonna win in the end), you gotta wonder how she punishes the Cosmo Navy too?

[kalvasflam]

You know, I don't mind the copy and paste machine that they have, but consider this, even that in and of itself is very inconsistent.

In the three years since 2199, they built 5 Andros, and about a dozen DNs.  Also, a number of Gamilas ships I'm assuming, and presumably refitted some of the older Earth vessels.  Ok, I can buy that.   Then from the time when 2202 started to the time at battle of Saturn, they have churned out or are in the process of churning out, more than a dozen Andromeda class, a few hundred dreadnoughts, and that doesn't even include the various patrol cruisers and such.  I'm sorry, but WTF?  It's like the time slip is a plot slip too, able to speed up production at will.. or I suppose, to slow it down.

The same applies to Gatlantis.  The only way they have managed to get this far one would assume is because they have something similar.  How else do you explain from episode 1, with one Calaklum to the million plus that we saw in episode 7?  It's just utterly crazy.  If they had such a capability, why not just overwhelm the humans from day one.  I am assuming Gatlantis also have some weird form of time slip, probably encompassing all those trapped planets.  (It is ridiculous actually).

Oh, and speaking of ridiculous, just how powerful is the WMG on Desslar's new ship, because that Gatlantis fleet with all those Calaklums he eliminated came from episode 7, and if I remember right, no Calaklums were actually destroyed (thank you pacifist Kodai, too bad nobody else cared) by Yamato.  So, even if you assume half the number of Calaklums died from having parts stripped or fell out of formation or whatever.  That's still a ridiculous number of ships, and Soto managed to kill them all in one shot.  I have to tell you, that puts Desslar's ship heads and shoulders above all of those Andromedas.  The Ultimate WTF.

As for Teresa, I can say that when she finally does show up, it'll be a case of lazy writing.

[westfall]

Given the statements made by Sanada and Kodai in episode 17, and how the story seems to be leaning towards Farewell rather that Yamato 2, Teresa might not appear anymore except in vision form. Sanada said she can't come to our dimension, as direct contact would result in our universe essentially collapsing, which is actually Zordar's ultimate goal. So if Fukui keeps that logic, she can't come over and end Zordar. Unless Ginga's transdimensional WMG field thingy can contain her and prevent contact. We'll be seeing that do some weird stuff tomorrow, after Kato and the Blackbird drones do their thing.

Edited November 1, 2018 by westfall

[TehPW]

Nothing here but a off topic video and stupid me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYAnkdhe9KE

(The example video is Honest Trailer for Batman the Animated series 90's) 

Edited November 2, 2018 by TehPW
Nevermind, I AM GETTING old and senile.

[Kyp Durron]

On 10/24/2018 at 6:09 PM, skaianDestiny said:

It's a new ship.

Also Yamato will be getting another refit.

 

Awesome, my favorite kind of upgrade, "Moar GUNZ!!!Shift+1=!"

[TehPW]

that speaks volumes... I really hope the next series (season) has to deal with the environmental destruction that the Galantis Comet Empire* causes (regardless of how our heroes save the day, I feel that it's still gonna be pyric in nature

 

* even though the term Comet Empire was a term coined in the English adaptation, I believe we can aggree, in cannon, the rank & file earthling would call the Gatlatians CE

[wm cheng]

Hey I'm starting to like that special Cosmotiger (I'm not sure what its called) but that awkward dark grey gangly fighter with all the huge oversized missile pods - does Bandai make a model of this?

 

Btw - is anyone else getting this 0yen on all HLJ prices tonight? 

[westfall]

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

Hey I'm starting to like that special Cosmotiger (I'm not sure what its called) but that awkward dark grey gangly fighter with all the huge oversized missile pods - does Bandai make a model of this?

 

Btw - is anyone else getting this 0yen on all HLJ prices tonight? 

No models of Cosmo Tiger I so far. If one comes out, it'll probably be as part of the Mecha Collection line, as Bandai seems to have abandoned the 1/72 line. And the 1/1000 line for that matter... all that we have are recolored ships, nothing really new. Gatlantis ships were totally ignored, a shame really. Aside the Nazca-class from Ark, they should have at least released a couple more kits. That's the most disapointing aspect of 2202, IMHO. With 2199 we got a compreensive line of models, plenty of artbooks and CDs. 2202 is a bust in that regard. No artbooks even announced, the 1/1000 had 4 new models (retooled Yamato, Andromeda, Dreadnought and Ginga). The rest were either recolored/repackaged versions of these or older kits or slight mods (Apollo Norm). The focus was shifted to the off scale Mecha Colle line which, although great, lacks the impact of the 1/1000 line. And we've gotten 1 soundtrack CD and 3 singles. By this point in 2199 we were already at 3 CDs and many more singles. And all that in a smaller amount of time since 2199 was already wraping up at this point while 2202 will go well over 2 years to be fully released.

[kalvasflam]

Some interesting videos on Vimeo for the next chapter.

 

Lots of action, curious to see all of this pans out even if it was  a bit disjointed.

And I noticed, there are no fighter on fighter action in these sequences, both sides have them, but both sides are using them as attack aircraft only.  How interesting.

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by kalvasflam

[TehPW]

They used the Cosmo DNA modules as weapons...?

 

[kalvasflam]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

They used the Cosmo DNA modules as weapons...?

 

yeah, and the bigger question is why bother?  All those WMGs, and all they were against were fodder.  Guess I'll look forward to the subbed versions.

[westfall]

17 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

yeah, and the bigger question is why bother?  All those WMGs, and all they were against were fodder.  Guess I'll look forward to the subbed versions.

 

 I believe the fleet they attack is the Annihilation Missile fleet which is protected by the shield surrounding the cage. WMG fire wouldn't penetrate it. As a way to attack indirectly, Ginga's main weapon acts as an energy booster that overloads the seeded WM cores, causing a similar effect to that seen in episode 7. The powerless ships drift out of formation and the missiles' coliding cause a chain reaction that destroys the fleet.

Edited November 9, 2018 by westfall

[Kyp Durron]

17 hours ago, westfall said:

  Hide contents

 I believe the fleet they attack is the Annihilation Missile fleet which is protected by the shield surrounding the cage. WMG fire wouldn't penetrate it. As a way to attack indirectly, Ginga's main weapon acts as an energy booster that overloads the seeded WM cores, causing a similar effect to that seen in episode 7. The powerless ships drift out of formation and the missiles' coliding cause a chain reaction that destroys the fleet.

Spoiler

At least Kato was able to redeem himself in the end.

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Kyp Durron

[westfall]

3 minutes ago, Kyp Durron said:

  Hide contents

At least he was able to redeem himself in the end.

 

Oh, he did plenty of redeeming later on.

[TehPW]

10 minutes ago, westfall said:

Oh, he did plenty of redeeming later on.

It's not been fully determined that he dies... just that his jet is damaged.

[westfall]

21 hours ago, TehPW said:

It's not been fully determined that he dies... just that his jet is damaged.

Well, he still made it to chapter 7 where most if the major character deaths will occurr, if they intend to be as bloody as the original. The rescue he pulls in episode 21 is Kato's true return to honor and Yamato.

Still hoping they let him survive this time around. No twin brother BS, please.

[TehPW]

I know this is very retro but the smaller DDG/FFG-type vessel that passes Andy... that scene (presumably from the 2nd SBY movie) is replaced by Yamato's flyby in the 2nd TV season, yes? Was the circumstance the same (the smaller ship NOT yielding to the larger vessel) or did that smaller vessel intentionally pass that close for dramatic effect?

[kalvasflam]

Can't remember,  but basically Kodai was in charge of both ships, and the Andy wouldn't yield the right of way or some such silly thing.

Looking back, parts of the old story was really silly.  But oh well.  I think the big problem with Yamato 2202 is that people like me might be expecting too much of a mature story, rather than the smash em up cartoon for kids, to those kids, most of 2202 was probably total kick ass, massive number of ships slugging it out, with no rhythm or reason, or logic.  The utterly illogical arms race that the show engaged itself in was just a delight to both the young'uns and Bandai, who is looking to sell ever larger number of models.  The boring parts were probably all about Desslar and his sad, sad backstory.  No more talking, just blow crap up.  After all, what are you going to do with a doll of Desslar, that'll never sell.  Or  may be if it will, if only we transform Desslar into a girl, and slap string thongs on it.  

After all, who wouldn't want 20 variations of Andromeda with all the different trims and colors,.

[westfall]

Both versions were basically the same, though in "Farewell", Andromeda has just taken off and Kodai's Patrol Ship inadvertently flies into her flight path. The scene is rather quick, while in Yamato 2 we have all that talk about who has the right of way, lasting a few minutes. And of course, the Patrol Ship is replaced by Yamato.

Edited November 20, 2018 by westfall

[kalvasflam]

Oh my goodness, that's a whole lot of ships, and dare I ask what the Black Berserk Battlion is?  I mean, ok, I know that's what BBB stands for.  But my goodness.  I see three Andromeda variants, and a better look at the Gamilas version of the Andromeda.  Very interesting.

Now they have Andromedas in battalion formation.  Ha ha.

 

[westfall]

Not entirely sure if it applies to all black Andromeda-class ships, but the ones that appear in this chapter flying alongside the Andromeda-Kai are totally automated and controled by the AI system. Hayanami is the only one on board Andromeda-Kai as the system is mandated to learn from human experience.

[TehPW]

5 hours ago, westfall said:

Not entirely sure if it applies to all black Andromeda-class ships, but the ones that appear in this chapter flying alongside the Andromeda-Kai are totally automated and controled by the AI system. Hayanami is the only one on board Andromeda-Kai as the system is mandated to learn from human experience.

so things that can go wrong for next season.... 

[kalvasflam]

Crazed Andromeda AI wreaks havoc on Gamilas, news at 11.

Heh heh, as 2202 goes on, I get the vibe that goes back to the old scene from "Enter the Dragon."  The part toward the end where the main bad guy is sending his unnamed yet unique underlings against Bruce Lee and John Saxon in an effort to overwhelm them.   The funny part is he starts by naming them individually and ordering them to attack, even though they're just stormtroopers.

[TehPW]

I just want to know if they knew Yamato was on that storage planet when they formed their BB-BFG shipgun to destroy that planet?

[TehPW]

o.O wait a minute... are they over earth (or mars?) If the Comet Empire G is over earth... did they nuke the moon?

[kalvasflam]

I think they are over Mars.  You know, I seriously think that the Andromeda Yamanami is using is a new build ship, not the original.  Now unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know about the exact time skips in each episode, but if I had to guess, if the situation is so dire, and the Andromeda these guys are using is the original, they aren't going to take the time to do a paint job, not when seconds count.   In this case, with their time skip factory, the Cosmo Navy is likely just to give Yamanami a new ship, and put the damaged Andromeda aside for later repairs.  

I'd be curious to see a more detailed explanation though.   The funny thing is given how Zordar is interested in killing the Yamato, he isn't just sending ships after the Yamato while it is being towed.  Instead, he'll trust Soto to do it.  It's just so weird.

[Thom]

Are the new episodes out yet?

[skaianDestiny]

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

I think they are over Mars.  You know, I seriously think that the Andromeda Yamanami is using is a new build ship, not the original.  Now unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know about the exact time skips in each episode, but if I had to guess, if the situation is so dire, and the Andromeda these guys are using is the original, they aren't going to take the time to do a paint job, not when seconds count.   In this case, with their time skip factory, the Cosmo Navy is likely just to give Yamanami a new ship, and put the damaged Andromeda aside for later repairs.  

I'd be curious to see a more detailed explanation though.   The funny thing is given how Zordar is interested in killing the Yamato, he isn't just sending ships after the Yamato while it is being towed.  Instead, he'll trust Soto to do it.  It's just so weird.

Weeks apparently passed, and that is the original Andomeda. Apparently the walls are preventing Gatlantis from warping.

Edited November 28, 2018 by skaianDestiny

[kalvasflam]

1 hour ago, skaianDestiny said:

Weeks apparently passed, and that is the original Andomeda. Apparently the walls are preventing Gatlantis from warping.

OMG,  

If that's really true.   Then it's really true, Zordar warped to Saturn, then sat with his thumb up his ass for an apparent standoff for no reason whatsoever.   While his #1 enemy was sitting right under his nose for however long.  That's just lazy writing.  

[TehPW]

what walls?

[kalvasflam]

the Gamilas dreadnoughts with their shield wall is apparently capable of preventing warp.  That's part of the reason why those ships show up with the Cosmo Navy, to prevent Gatlantis from warping away.   After all, the idea of having a physical shield to block fire in space actually doesn't make a lot of sense especially since it also blocks the forward firepower of the ship.

[westfall]

20 hours ago, TehPW said:

I just want to know if they knew Yamato was on that storage planet when they formed their BB-BFG shipgun to destroy that planet?

The reason he orders Zemulia's destruction is because Kodai has discovered a way to stop Gatlantis and Katsuragi is about to spillthe beans on how to get it. So at that point, survival trumps holy planet. Blow it up.

20 hours ago, TehPW said:

o.O wait a minute... are they over earth (or mars?) If the Comet Empire G is over earth... did they nuke the moon?

That's Mars. The explosion was Andromeda-Kai blowing up.

 

Overall, the AI's plan is to delay Gatlantis for 10 days, which is the amount of time it has calculated it needs to build a suficient amount of ships to go head to head with their current fleet. Even though those wall may be preventing warp, by episode 22, Gatlantis has moved past Mars and alarms are going off at Moon base and Earth.

[kalvasflam]

Apologies to all for the last dozen or so post, I've belatedly realized that I haven't put up spoilers around the clips

 

And now, I feel certain that people are spending way too much time with the Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, how many Andromeda class carriers does the Gamilas have any way?   It's like the quality department has stopped paying attention.  

But then again, what does it matter how many Andromeda class carriers the Gamilas have.  How could it possibly stand up to the BBB.  (the first wave)  

 

You know, the Imperial Japanese Army Battalion fields around 1,100 men.  I wonder if that's the number of the Andromeda BBB.

Edited November 29, 2018 by kalvasflam

[droosan]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:43 PM, Thom said:

Are the new episodes out yet?

Space Battleship Yamato 2202 chapter 6 was released theatrically in Japan on November 2nd.

The chapter 6 Blu-ray streets (also in Japan) on December 21st.

 

Chapter 7 (the final 4 episodes of SBY 2202) is slated for theatrical release in March 2019, and on Blu-ray in April 2019.