Yamato 2202

[skaianDestiny]

https://twitter.com/makomako713/status/882443348459405312

Cosmo Tiger I without armaments.

 

Kobayashi also mentioned seeing a prototype of the 1/72 Cosmo Tiger I, so we may be seeing that in the future.
https://twitter.com/makomako713/status/882444108991680512

Edited July 5, 2017 by skaianDestiny

[Thom]

I don't know, I have alike not-like relationship with that design. All I really want in 1/72 now is Melda's red fighter.

[Dobber]

I agree with Thom, though it does look better without all the extra crap on it. 

Chris

[Thom]

I actually like it better loaded with ordinance. It hides that anemic fuselage.

[skaianDestiny]

On Twitter Kobayashi posted an alternate color scheme for the Dreadnought and the 2202 patrol cruiser, the Enceladus!

[myk]

Does the cruiser have a wave gun?

[skaianDestiny]

1 hour ago, myk said:

Does the cruiser have a wave gun?

Maybe, most likely.  No other info other than its looks ATM.

Kobayashi took down those tweets, so in case anyone can't see those pics here's a mirror.

[Dobber]

2 hours ago, myk said:

Does the cruiser have a wave gun?

I was going to say no. The opening in the bow reminds me of the side thrusters on the Andromeda and Dreadnought. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I do get a kick that the patrol cruiser has more logically placed weapons for a spacecraft, then the Yamato, Andromeda, and Dreadnought.

Chris

[skaianDestiny]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

I was going to say no. The opening in the bow reminds me of the side thrusters on the Andromeda and Dreadnought. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Chris

I don't see how you can think that. With the rifling it looks a lot more like a Wave Motion Gun.

[Dobber]

10 hours ago, skaianDestiny said:

I don't see how you can think that. With the rifling it looks a lot more like a Wave Motion Gun.

So does that mean that the Dreadnought class has an additional 5 Wave motion guns (2 on each side of the hull and another behind the bridge)?

They are just lines...the side thrusters are painted bright red just like it and also have the same lines/rifling. So I came to that conclusion because of the same coloring and details. Yamato, and Dreadnought have no Red for their WaveMotion Guns and Andromeda's are a completely different shade. But the thrusters have the exact same color shade and detailing. If I'm wrong then I am wrong, no sweat off of my brow, but I don't see why it would be such a stretch to come to my conclusion.

Chris

Edited July 15, 2017 by Dobber

[skaianDestiny]

3 hours ago, Dobber said:

So does that mean that the Dreadnought class has an additional 5 Wave motion guns (2 on each side of the hull and another behind the bridge)?

They are just lines...the side thrusters are painted bright red just like it and also have the same lines/rifling. So I came to that conclusion because of the same coloring and details. Yamato, and Dreadnought have no Red for their WaveMotion Guns and Andromeda's are a completely different shade. But the thrusters have the exact same color shade and detailing. If I'm wrong then I am wrong, no sweat off of my brow, but I don't see why it would be such a stretch to come to my conclusion.

Chris

Because the entire point of the bew EDF ships is that they all contain Wave Motion Guns.  They had them in the original, and with the huge emphasis that has been placed on Earth using WMGs now there's very little reason to think that the cruisers and lesser ships won't mount them as well.

[Dobber]

Doesn't seem to be so obvious if the question needed to be asked in the first place. Like I said, if they are WMG, that's fine. Until I know for sure, I like the idea of a thruster, but I admit I did forget that the had them in the original. If you or others disagree, that's fine. No need to be argumentative over it though, it's just an opinion.

Chris

Edited July 15, 2017 by Dobber

[Thom]

I'm guessing that Laboratory means Prototype? It's a cool looking color pattern, and that patrol cruiser looks awesome! Is this in the new 2202 series? If so, I hope we get some new models of the ship.

 

[mechaninac]

^ Or maybe it literally is a dedicated Laboratory (Research and Exploration) Vessel?...

[TehPW]

19 hours ago, mechaninac said:

^ Or maybe it literally is a dedicated Laboratory (Research and Exploration) Vessel?...

I am curious to see what their Destroyers will look like (they were the only vessels in the original 2nd season that seemed to lack WMG bows)...

 

[westfall]

On 15/07/2017 at 4:37 PM, skaianDestiny said:

Because the entire point of the bew EDF ships is that they all contain Wave Motion Guns.  They had them in the original, and with the huge emphasis that has been placed on Earth using WMGs now there's very little reason to think that the cruisers and lesser ships won't mount them as well.

The Murasame and Kongo class ships that make the bulk of the fleet don't have them. The E.Class is meant as a patrol cruiser, so there's no reason to assume that it has a WMG just because of the opening on the bow. And the similar ships in the original series didn't have WMG's. The emphasis on 2202 is on Earth breaking the promise of not using Wave-Motion Guns and using the Dance of Time to allow their proliferation. That is embodied in the A and D classes, which are the only ones we see being built inside the time anomaly facility, aside some Destoria-class battleships.

[skaianDestiny]

5 hours ago, westfall said:

The Murasame and Kongo class ships that make the bulk of the fleet don't have them. The E.Class is meant as a patrol cruiser, so there's no reason to assume that it has a WMG just because of the opening on the bow. And the similar ships in the original series didn't have WMG's. The emphasis on 2202 is on Earth breaking the promise of not using Wave-Motion Guns and using the Dance of Time to allow their proliferation. That is embodied in the A and D classes, which are the only ones we see being built inside the time anomaly facility, aside some Destoria-class battleships.

The Kongou and Murasame are simply upgrades of the pre-2199 ships; it can be assumed that restructuring the ship to allow them to use a WMG would have been more work than simply switching out the guns and installing a Wave Motion Engine.

All the resources I could find indicated the original series ships had WMGs; they just never got a chance to fire them.  The only ship that didn't have an opening on the front that had rifling was the EDF destroyer.  I could see an argument for the cruisers and such in 2202 using really big positron shock cannons for the bows, but the openings were never used as thrusters or whatever, which was what I was against.

If you're making your fleet based on the use of WMGs, then there's no reason to not put them on the cruisers and other smaller craft if you have the technology to do so.  Just because it's a patrol cruiser doesn't mean it will never have an opportunity to use the WMG; one could argue that as a patrol cruiser it should since it would be off by itself instead of with the rest of the fleet battleships.

Also, the Destroia is a heavy cruiser, not a battleship.

[Dobber]

Bandai's 1/1000 refitted 2202 Yamato is up for pre-order

https://hlj.com/product/bann19552

any idea why the have a picture of the Kongo class, there is nothing about it in the description.

Chris

[wm cheng]

Is there any difference in the 2202 refit?

[treatment]

52 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Bandai's 1/1000 refitted 2202 Yamato is up for pre-order

https://hlj.com/product/bann19552

any idea why the have a picture of the Kongo class, there is nothing about it in the description.

Chris

 

Looks like it replaces the blue trideck mini-kit that came with the original 2199 kit.

 

 

[TangledThorns]

Is this a snap kit model? What do you guys think of them?

[Dobber]

55 minutes ago, wm cheng said:

Is there any difference in the 2202 refit?

Yes, the 5 differences I can see are:

1. The "Bow Crown" is different....more smooth

2. The "water-line" is higher and now goes through the middle torpedo hatch. 

3. New AA guns around the rear secondary turret. Originally it was 1 large triple turret per side. Now it looks like 3 dual turrets per side. 

4. Some sort of detail/observation windows underneath the rear secondary turret. 

5. Larger Wave motion engine nozzle. 

That's what I have noticed. 

Chris

 

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

Wow. love it I might just have to get this Yamato.

[Kyp Durron]

4 hours ago, Dobber said:

Yes, the 5 differences I can see are:

1. The "Bow Crown" is different....more smooth

2. The "water-line" is higher and now goes through the middle torpedo hatch. 

3. New AA guns around the rear secondary turret. Originally it was 1 large triple turret per side. Now it looks like 3 dual turrets per side. 

4. Some sort of detail/observation windows underneath the rear secondary turret. 

5. Larger Wave motion engine nozzle. 

That's what I have noticed. 

Chris

 

Yep, I concur. This time it appears this Yamato 2202 isn't just a refit in name only. There's actual physical differences between the two, and you know damn well what that means, a new SoC mold is coming out for the 2202 series! Start saving up! 

Oh and BTW, this SoC version is going to be a serious improvement, and the new Andromeda SoC will make the old one look like crap, calling this now.

***EDIT*** Wait a minute, she's thicker in the hull than she was before and check out the new line contour on the side of the ship in the first pic, that's a MAJOR change.

 

Now compare that to the 2199 1/100 model:

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kyp Durron

[wm cheng]

Awww man!!!  Now I can't unsee it and pretend there were no changes.  Still love the SoC 2199 Yamato and the last SoC Andromeda - don't know if its enough of a difference to warrant another purchase though - my little girl has to go to University right?

 

[Kyp Durron]

See above edit and compare the two.   In fact, here's another comparison, Yamato 2199: 



Yamato 2202 : 



There can be no doubt about the physical differences and that they're significant. And I was right, she is DEFINITELY thicker in the middle than before.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kyp Durron

[Dobber]

Yup, you're right. Look at the blister just under the atmospheric wings...it is significantly less bulbous since the hull sticks out further. Make that change number 6.

Chris

[Kyp Durron]

Another comparison, as it appears in the anime, notice the wider deck area at the bow as a result of the larger Wave Motion gun opening : 


 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kyp Durron

[wm cheng]

You know, I'm not totally down with these changes - the engines aren't as streamlined and now it looks a little pregnant.  Not as sexy or streamlined.  (At least that's what I'm trying to convince myself).

[derex3592]

i agree...i'm glad i have the older 1/500 kit to build..new look doesn't...float ma ...Yamato???....

[myk]

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

You know, I'm not totally down with these changes - the engines aren't as streamlined and now it looks a little pregnant.  Not as sexy or streamlined.  (At least that's what I'm trying to convince myself).

That's what I liked about the '99 mold: a more streamlined and in my eyes, a more aggressive looking ship.  I like a little bit of thickness, but only on girls.  I need my vehicles to be lean, mean, fighting machines...

[Kyp Durron]

This is going to be a bit of a read, but these are my honest thoughts on the changes now that I've slept on it and have given them serious thought. They were absolutely correct in what they did, and infact, I will explain exactly WHY these changes had to be made. While I'm explaining these things, please keep in mind the new Andromeda, it's size, and what that double barreled wave motion gun MONSTER actually DID to the smaller planet/moon and still did to the fleet : TOTAL DESTRUCTION of The Comet Empire's armada, despite A MOON being in the way! A. FREAKING. MOON. Video/ GIF of it in action to refresh your memory :

Engines: If you were to ask me which engine nozzle set up looks to give more thrust, I'm going to go with the new set up, every time. You can't look at it and tell me honestly that that engine wouldn't out perform the old, plain and simple, this leads me the the changes in the hull. :

I can almost guarantee I know why the hull is thicker, most likely due to an increased sized engine room/ wave motion engine and flywheel along with an increased fighter capacity. This is obviously based on the increased engine nozzle diameter and the increased hull girth, which, if you really look at it, sure it's noticeable, but it's not to the point of being ridiculous, in my opinion. Obviously they were going to improve on the original Wave Motion Engine design, and that those improvements were going to be implemented into Yamato's major refit. Remember how the Andromeda is much larger than the Yamato? Their fighter capacity is surely more than Yamato's. Yamato would need to realistically be able to at least keep up with the Andromeda or come close to matching it. This now leads me to the Yamato's trump card, the Wave Motion Gun. : 

As to the wave motion gun bow barrel? I've always thought it should have had a larger opening. They've addressed that issue. Remember how this went down before, the Yamato succeeds where the Andromeda fails. But look at all the improvements (However internal they mostly are) to the Andromeda, how can you realistically say the Yamato as she was would succeed where this monster of a flag ship will inevitably fail? You can't watch that video/gif above of that holy freaking hellfire and brimstone the Andromeda unleashed on those poor unsuspecting frakkers and think that pencil Wave Motion Gun barrel of the 2199 Yamato could bring to the table what Andromeda already does. (And far better I might add) No way in Hell. And to be honest, even with the larger opening and supposed higher output, I still don't think it's going to be on par, but we'll see I'm sure.

There's also more guns added to Yamato's already impressive number of AA guns as well which is to me always welcome.

Now, forget the 2199 design for a minute and just look at the 2202 1/1000 model pictures. Is it really unbalanced? No, it's not. They didn't just increase the hull girth, they increased the WMG barrel/bow width and engine nozzle width as well to compensate and maintain the overall balance of the design. The ratios between the bow, hull and engine are still the same, just larger, but still just as balanced. Look at this picture by itself, on it's own and ask yourself, is it really unbalanced? :



No, no it's not. The ratios between bow, hull and engines are unchanged. They knew better than to screw with that. Keep in mind, this reboot is more realistically inclined than the original. In order to succeed where the Andromeda fails, Yamato had to have some serious improvements to it's guns, fighter capacity, output power of the Wave Motion Gun, and Wave Motion Engine. Realistically speaking, there's NO WAY to do this without external changes taking place. If you still think the changes are unbalanced, this should remove all doubt : 



The ratios are indeed the same.

***EDIT*** Doing some more reading, on the our starblazers website, I came across this picture from the official Yamato 2202 website, along with the English translation : 



Yep, looks pretty balanced to me.

From the translation :

Yamato brought the Cosmo Reverse System home from Iscandar, which restored the global environment as it was before the Garmillas invasion of the solar system. After finishing its important task, Yamato was enshrined in a submarine dock as a memorial ship, but under the Earth Federal Government’s new “Wave-Motion Gun fleet initiative” policy, it was decided to return Yamato to the battle lines.

Extensive remodeling by Sanada was pushed forward by this stressful decision, including refurbishment of the Wave-Motion Gun. The addition of a factory within the ship (Well golly gee, Wally, that certainly explains the extra girth along with everything else, LOL -Kyp), strengthening of the armor, and the addition of anti-aircraft guns give it a more robust form and it awaits a new voyage.

Name: Yamato-type ship number 1, Yamato (first remodeled type)
Length :333m
Main machine: Dimensional Wave-Motion Engine x 1
Prime weapon: Dimensional Wave-Motion radiation discharger (Wave-Motion Gun)
48cm triple-barrel positron shock cannon x 3
20cm triple-barrel positron shock cannon x 2
Torpedo launching tube x 12
8-port missile launch tower x 1
Type 94 depth charge launcher x 2
Anti-aircraft pulse laser turrets, several

Oh, and one more thing. About the Andromeda failing where the Yamato succeeds... I am fully aware that one of the main reasons it did in the original series is because of the automation and lack of crew that the original had. However, I don't think this Andromeda will have that particular short coming this time around, I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think I am. I believe it's failure will be due to either command decisions or something that couldn't be avoided. (Plot demanding Andromeda's destruction for example) In the former case, the difference will most likely be due to differences in commanders tactics. Given that, it's going to be important that Yamato can hold it's own as well as the Andromeda spec wise. Even if it's the latter, "Plot armor" can only be so tough before it becomes outright ass pulling bullshit. So even in that case, it will still be important that Yamato has sufficient upgrades to where she can at least keep up. 

 And if after all that you're still unconvinced, to all of you detractors, keep lying to yourselves, you know once you see this bad motherfrakker in action, you'll all come around, every single one of you. You know I'm right, you just won't admit it, yet. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Kyp Durron

[wm cheng]

Thanks Kyp, interesting read... great points!  I can see your position... too bad my wallet can't   I need to see more episodes, bring em on!

 

[skaianDestiny]

Just want to mention that Andromeda, despite being 33% longer and twice as wide as Yamato, only has a crew of 200.  IIRC the Dreadnought also only has a crew of 150.

[Kyp Durron]

13 minutes ago, skaianDestiny said:

Just want to mention that Andromeda, despite being 33% longer and twice as wide as Yamato, only has a crew of 200.  IIRC the Dreadnought also only has a crew of 150.

A battleship mounted with a Wave-Motion Engine, built as the flagship of Earth Federation aerospace fleet. Its primary characteristic is the concentrated twin Wave-Motion Gun at the bow which fires Wave-Motion energy in a dispersion form that can strike a large number of targets simultaneously. Operation of the ship is reduced by promoting automation, so the crew is significantly smaller than Yamato’s. Other than the first battleship Andromeda, two sister ships were constructed: AAA-2 Aldebaran and AAA-4 Achilles.

Length :444m
Main machine: Dimensional Wave-Motion engine x 1
Auxiliary machine: Kelvin impulse engine x 4
Prime weapon: Dimensional Wave-Motion radiation discharger (Dispersion Wave-Motion Gun)
40.6 cm triple-barrel convergent compression type shock cannon x 4
Quick firing torpedo launch tube x 4
Graviton launcher x 4
Four barrel anti-battleship grenade launcher x 2.
Sub-space torpedo launcher x 4
Conning tower protection shock field cannon x 3
Six-barrel multi-launch lateral beam cannons for close combat x 2
 

Well allrighty then, so apparently that part isn't changed from the original series then. Still doesn't matter though as I stated in my earlier post : 

Quote

"Even if it's the latter, "Plot armor" can only be so tough before it becomes outright ass pulling bullshit. So even in that case, it will still be important that Yamato has sufficient upgrades to where she can at least keep up.

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Kyp Durron