Terminator: Dark Fate

[Hikuro]

Scores are coming in from RT, I know, not exactly the most reliable as over the last few years there's been a lot of backlash between critics and audience members on what's been good or bad. I use it though to kind of gauge my expectations and then use that to kind of lower the bar a bit so I feel better about the movie. Like Rambo...I knew it wasn't gonna be that good and the scores didn't set it up enough for me lol and I was REALLY blown away on how bad it truly was.

So anyways, Terminator stands at 100% .......kind of BS but okay, I mean I can believe 90, 85%. Judgement Day at 93%, okay I can see that, I'm thinking maybe more 90% but okay I mean it was a good movie I won't argue that. Terminator Rise of the Machines 69% and lemme tell you, I really hated that movie, it was awful to me, should of been 40%. Salvation was at 33%....that disappointed me in a way, I mean we were finally given the future war movie we'd all been wanting but the films original idea got stripped away and redone and we got what we saw in theaters and I liked the idea where the film was going to go for before the studios got in the way. Now Genisys, that trash heap was at 27%, it should of been 10%.
Dark Fate? It's sitting right now at 65% I'm not sure if it's because Cameron is having a lot more to do with this film than just giving a blessing as he has over the last 16 years or if it's because Hamilton has returned after 28 years only lending a hand as far as a cameo using her voice in audio tapes for Salvation, maybe it's both these people?
I'm gonna lower my expectations on this....we're gonna get a VERY different Arnoldator than even his take on Pops in Genisys. We need answers as to what's happened to John, Who is Dani and why is she so significant, is she the new Sarah Connor and because so much time as passed that John Connor is no longer the messiah of the human race and it's this Dani girl who is the new Sarah? And why is this Grace girl enhanced? Did the battle of Colorado not truly end the war? or because so much time has passed that it completely screwed up the war of judgement day and technology advanced further and these Rev-9's are the new foot soldiers instead of the standard T-800's and HK's?!

I guess we'll find out next friday.

 

[Dynaman]

I'm just looking for an enjoyable couple hours in a movie theater.  I also pretty much ignore RT till the movie is out for a day or two and it has thousands of data points to work with.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - since the deaths of Siskell and Ebert I don't pay attention to critics any longer.

[TangledThorns]

I got a $5 coupon from Fandango so I may go see it just to get out of the house for a couple of hours. I don't expect much, probably won't be better than T3 which was a good movie IMHO.

[derex3592]

27 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

I'm just looking for an enjoyable couple hours in a movie theater.  I also pretty much ignore RT till the movie is out for a day or two and it has thousands of data points to work with.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - since the deaths of Siskell and Ebert I don't pay attention to critics any longer.

Amen to this. I kinda wanna go see this in the theater. Wife said she's in so that's cool. I haven't seen any Terminators in the theater since my Dad and I saw T2 in all it's 70MM THX glory back when it came out. THAT was frakkin sweeet! 

[seti88]

I enjoyed Linda's acting more than i thot i would, she carried her crusty old self till the end of the movie quite well IMO. 

The f**k Y**s where well timed!

The big boss fight scene with the rev 9 was quite badass! Esp when grace goes all chain crazee with the rev 9! A good sound system theater would bring out incredible sounds! 

Turn your brain off and enjoy the somewhat remake of T2! 

[Hikuro]

Saw the film a bit ago. This answered a lot of theories, brought new ones, visuals were tighter than the trailers, and leaves the door open wide for new films and possibilities.

[Golden Arms]

Saw it last night and loved it.  A great 2 hours ride.

[TangledThorns]

Looks like the film is doing poorly at the box office. Not surprised for different reasons, namely recent crappy sequels. I do plan on seeing the film but my love for the franchise died when the FOX series was cancelled.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/02/box-office-james-cameron-and-tim-millers-terminator-dark-fate-starring-linda-hamilton-and-arnold-schwarzenegger-bombs-with-apocalyptic-11-million-friday/#6046f9515a3e

[apptt4]

enjoyed it, would watch more.

[505thAirborne]

So for those who watched it already, it sounds like you enjoyed. 

So far Chris & Jeremy have been rather critical of the movie. Then again when I hear Chris Stuckmann say he has some respect for Terminator Salvation, I think I'll go with your thoughts. 

 

[Hikuro]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:35 AM, TangledThorns said:

Looks like the film is doing poorly at the box office. Not surprised for different reasons, namely recent crappy sequels. I do plan on seeing the film but my love for the franchise died when the FOX series was cancelled.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/11/02/box-office-james-cameron-and-tim-millers-terminator-dark-fate-starring-linda-hamilton-and-arnold-schwarzenegger-bombs-with-apocalyptic-11-million-friday/#6046f9515a3e

Which is interesting cause it knocked Joker off number 1 and forecast for 24-27 million opening weekend which is modest to me for the time being.
 

 

10 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

So for those who watched it already, it sounds like you enjoyed. 

So far Chris & Jeremy have been rather critical of the movie. Then again when I hear Chris Stuckmann say he has some respect for Terminator Salvation, I think I'll go with your thoughts. 

 

Alot of the "review-tubers" are being critical over the legacy stuff. Granted there were a couple things I wasn't to fond over but I can get past them. The movie was leaps and bounds better than Genisys, Salvation and Rise of the Machines in my opinion.

[JB0]

16 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

The movie was leaps and bounds better than Genisys, Salvation and Rise of the Machines in my opinion.

That's damning with faint praise if ever I heard it.

[apptt4]

imo nothing passed T2 should exist at all. legacy revivals with few exceptions exist not because there is a story to be told, but because people will pay money to see it.

as far as these things go it's fine for what it is and better than most. was worth my time+money.

[JB0]

1 hour ago, apptt4 said:

imo nothing passed T2 should exist at all. legacy revivals with few exceptions exist not because there is a story to be told, but because people will pay money to see it.

as far as these things go it's fine for what it is and better than most. was worth my time+money.

IMO, there should be no sequels at all. While Terminator 2 was a good movie, it was a bad sequel.

And if we need more controversial statements... The Terminator was a perfect film and no possible followup could do anything but lessen it.

[Mazinger]

3 minutes ago, JB0 said:

IMO, there should be no sequels at all. While Terminator 2 was a good movie, it was a bad sequel.

And if we need more controversial statements... The Terminator was a perfect film and no possible followup could do anything but lessen it.

Wow, I’ve said as much to friends always feeling I had to be in minuscule group. I was so convinced of that that I’m shocked to even see someone else bring this view up.

[Graham]

Saw it with my son on Saturday. Really enjoyed it. Definitely the 3rd best Terminator movie after the original and T2 and a worthy sequel to T2.

 

[JB0]

6 hours ago, Mazinger said:

Wow, I’ve said as much to friends always feeling I had to be in minuscule group. I was so convinced of that that I’m shocked to even see someone else bring this view up.

It isn't a popular opinion by any means. It is just the RIGHT opinion.

...

I used to hate Terminator 2, actually. I've made my peace with it. The film has plot holes big enough to drive a truck through, but no one cares because they DO drive a truck through them. And then they blow it up. And then they do it again a half-hour later. It is a heckuva spectacle.

 

I suspect I might have different opinions if I'd seen Terminator 2 first(as many did, based on theatrical run profits in a pre-VCR era). We had a taped-off-TV copy of The Terminator when I was younger, and no copy of Terminator 2. So I watched the original several times before I ever saw the second one, which was... startlingly different, and not really meant for someone who'd darn near memorized the first film(well, the parts that hadn't been edited out).

[technoblue]

Yeah, I just want to add my voice to the chorus of those here who were happy to see Terminator: Dark Fate over the weekend. It was quite a ride, and a long time coming, IMO. Definitely a solid B+. For me, this and The Sarah Connor Chronicles are tied as worthy sequels to T2. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by technoblue
italics

[Seto Kaiba]

14 hours ago, JB0 said:

IMO, there should be no sequels at all. While Terminator 2 was a good movie, it was a bad sequel.

I know I'll probably get tarred and feathered for saying it, but Alien* and Predator are right up there with Terminator in terms of being iconic 80's sci-fi/horror/action properties to wind up saddled with a raft of categorically unnecessary bad sequels that diminish an amazing original film.

Terminator, sadly, was hit the hardest by the unnecessary sequel baseball bat... to the point that the last one had to resort to multiverse theory to explain the constant retcons.

It was enough to keep me out of the theater when Dark Fate dropped.  Sounds like a lot of people had that reaction after Rise of the Machines, Salvation, and Genesys, with Dark Fate apparently set to finish well in the red, kill any sequel plans, and probably trigger another do-over a few years down the road.

 

* Yes, I know Alien actually came out in Autumn 1979, but it's close enough.

[derex3592]

No tarring and feathering here...T2 and Aliens are GOOD movies....two of my teenage years favorites --  they aren't GREAT movies like their predecessors.  The had to ramp up the action and pacing to keep what the audience expected.  Cameron did what he does, bigger and louder.  Predator stands alone as the best one of that series hands down. A classic.  Did it need a sequel?  Sure, but Predator 2 was just.....odd. 

 

That being said, I didn't hate the 1st AVP...*ducks for incoming tarring and feathering* I thought it was a fun movie. The 2nd one was terrible.

 

Still wouldn't mind seeing Dark Fate in the theater, doubt I'll get there with my schedule, but it would be fun to see in a Dolby Atmos theater! 

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I know I'll probably get tarred and feathered for saying it, but Alien* and Predator are right up there with Terminator in terms of being iconic 80's sci-fi/horror/action properties to wind up saddled with a raft of categorically unnecessary bad sequels that diminish an amazing original film.

 

We'll have to get tarred together.

 

[TangledThorns]

One thing missing from the new Terminator films is the scare factor the original first film had. He was practically Jason from Friday the 13th. Remember this scene? I remember some in the audience jumped when the Terminator tried to grab Sarah. I also remember my nanny who took me and my brother, I was ten years old in 1984, to see it was covering her eyes most of the film. I had a great time!

 

[Dynaman]

Have to disagree.  Aliens and T2 are better then their originals.  

[JB0]

16 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Have to disagree.  Aliens and T2 are better then their originals.  

As long as you're okay with being wrong.

 

Seriously, that mostly just means you like action better than horror.

[Mazinger]

2 hours ago, derex3592 said:

That being said, I didn't hate the 1st AVP...*ducks for incoming tarring and feathering* I thought it was a fun movie. The 2nd one was terrible.

Off-Topic: To this day I still don't know why Fox didn't just make a Machiko Noguchi PvsA movie. I read the first book way back when and enjoyed it.  I'm tempted to say budget considerations, but then the first PvsA movie was all sets that also had to be built, none of them all that small either.

They copied a few elements, mostly the ending of the book, but it was so bogged down with the whole Toltecs-on-Ice storyline that destroyed my suspension of disbelief. And then they made #2 even worse, so mundane, that I regret the crossover in the first place.

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, TangledThorns said:

One thing missing from the new Terminator films is the scare factor the original first film had. He was practically Jason from Friday the 13th. Remember this scene? I remember some in the audience jumped when the Terminator tried to grab Sarah. I also remember my nanny who took me and my brother, I was ten years old in 1984, to see it was covering her eyes most of the film. I had a great time!

<snip>

Totally agree. I was in the middle of writing something similar, but got busy winding up the end of my workday. 

IMO, The Terminator is a slasher style horror but under the guise of sci-fi with characters from the "future" driving the plot. Alien is similar, but less slasher and more suspense style horror. Rather than a house in some back woods locale with a single evil picking off a cast of characters, for example, Alien is set in a far away sci-fi environment and that helps to create its haunting atmosphere.

Terminator 2 and Aliens have completely different tones, which is by design I think. I don't know if it's good or bad. I mean, I like all four movies, but it is obvious upon reflection.

Comparing Terminator: Dark Fate to its predecessors, it does have more in common with T2. The frustrating thing is that there are moments where it could have easily brought back the intense fear factor of the original, but it chose to pull punches instead. That said, I still had fun seeing it on the big screen.

Edited November 5, 2019 by technoblue

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

As long as you're okay with being wrong.

 

Seriously, that mostly just means you like action better than horror.

True enough, never been a horror fan.

[sketchley]

3 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

One thing missing from the new Terminator films is the scare factor the original first film had. He was practically Jason from Friday the 13th. (...)

 

Agreed.  That's something that seems to be forgotten with the sequels for Alien and Terminator (well, now that Ridley Scott is helming the movies again, it's arguable that the pendulum has swung too far back from 'action' movie for some fans' tastes).

Going back to the original Terminator: let's not forget it's genesis: a fever-induced nightmare.  IMHO, that sums up what the Terminator is all about.

[Seto Kaiba]

One of the biggest problems with the Terminator film franchise is that the titular evil killer robot has suffered some truly epic badass decay.  The T-800 in the original was a hugely terrifying threat capable of invoking a horror genre experience because it was a veritable juggernaut... this implacable engine of murder that just wouldn't stop coming.

Terminator 2: Judgement Day sucked most of the threat out of the Terminators by having domesticated one to serve as John Connor's new bodyguard, and subsequent films have all but completely completely neutered their ability to frighten because these resistance T-800s are always standing between the Connors and Skynet's shiniest new toy.  All they can really do anymore is startle because they're no longer seemingly unstoppable killing machines after Sarah spent so much time proving they're eminently killable.  Dark Fate is kind of the worst offender in a way, since a distraught Sarah Connor has spent her free time spawncamping Skynet's Terminator spawn points and apparently not one of them managed to survive an ambush by one pissed off suburban mother.  It really sucks all of the menace out of them.  They're less invincible engines of death and destruction and more a really REALLY aggressive door to door campaign.  "Have you heard the good news of our AI lord and savior Legion?"

Terminator desperately needs to do for the Terminators what Alien: Isolation did for the xenomorph... to get back to basics and remind itself and us all why the T-800 was literally the stuff of nightmares instead of just being a punchup between two people who can't act playing nice safe roles as emotionless robots.

[pengbuzz]

So T:DF has finally reared it's head into the franchise. Well, I was expecting nothing from this move, and was still disappointed.

So, ideas on my end then to fix the franchise? Well, one that probably has a ton of holes and most likely destroys the horror part:

With time unraveling, Skynet takes one final act to change time once and for all: it sends itself and every single HK and Terminator unit into the past, to access the military's data systems, launch the missiles and start the future war in 1984. And this time, the Resistance can send no one back to stop it.

[sqidd]

On 11/4/2019 at 1:18 AM, JB0 said:

IMO, there should be no sequels at all. While Terminator 2 was a good movie, it was a bad sequel.

And if we need more controversial statements... The Terminator was a perfect film and no possible followup could do anything but lessen it.

 

11 hours ago, Mazinger said:

Off-Topic: To this day I still don't know why Fox didn't just make a Machiko Noguchi PvsA movie. I read the first book way back when and enjoyed it.  I'm tempted to say budget considerations, but then the first PvsA movie was all sets that also had to be built, none of them all that small either.

They copied a few elements, mostly the ending of the book, but it was so bogged down with the whole Toltecs-on-Ice storyline that destroyed my suspension of disbelief. And then they made #2 even worse, so mundane, that I regret the crossover in the first place.

I'm with you guys. Did I enjoy T2? Sure. Was it anywhere near as good as T1? Nofrikkinway. If it had stopped after T1 it would have been ok by me.

I'm not going to say some of the other films weren't worth watching.........for free when they come up on Amazon/NF. Certainly not spending the time/money to go to the theater though.

[Knight26]

I love the original Terminator.  It is a fantastic example of casual time travel with a stable time loop.  I know one of the reasons Cameron cited as a reason to make T2 (other than money) was that people thought T1 ended on too downer of a note.  Those were stupid people.  Yes, it ends on the knowledge that Nuclear Armageddon is coming, but people forget that humanity won the war.  That was why the Terminator was sent back in the first place and how Kyle Reese was able to be sent back.

The biggest issue with T2 is that is breaks the timeloop by destroying the means to create Skynet.  They gave it a Back to the Future treatment.  At the time I loved it as an awesome action movie, but was a terrible sequel, as it broke the rules established by the original.  Almost everything since then has been an attempt to up the ante even more with stronger and stronger Terminator models all being released and sent back in time at the same time.  It really kills the impact of the original T-800.

T3 attempted to correct the timeline but did it in such a sloppy and lazy fashion.  Salvation, should have saved the franchise but was mishandled quite badly by McG, especially the fact that Skynet knew of Kyle Reese's existence.  Genisys could have been a great reboot to the franchise, but again was mishandled and beyond badly written, and cast.  The guy who played Kyle was totally wrong for the part.


Onto other franchises:  Alien was an amazing Haunted House in Space movie and still holds up to this day.  Aliens is a fantastic sequel that stayed true to the original, not breaking any rules but taking the franchise in a new direction, and not retreading the same ground, which a good sequel should.  Alien3 was basically a remake of Alien, but in factory instead, but as a viewer you knew what was coming so it lost all of its impact.  It is still better then some of the other scripts, like the one with the airborne alien virus, which could have been done better.  Resurrection is better left undiscussed, it was a mess on too many levels.  I'll leave Prometheus and it's sequel/alien prequel for another discussion.

Predator was amazing and total product of its time.  P2 took a bunch of concepts from the original and expanded on them, and while a fun movie, that expanded the lore, just didn't have the same impact.  It almost would have been better with a totally different title and treated like a straight up murder mystery where it is finally revealed that a Predator is the murderer.  I liked Predators (the Adrian Brody one).  It was a great expansion of the lore and really did a lot to show how the predator race would change tactics against a technologically advanced race.  I have yet to see the newest installment and likely won't.

AvP was a mess, but popcorn fodder, the Xenos being on Earth was eye rolling.  When it was announced we all wanted the Dark Horse AvP, Space Marines vs Aliens, vs the Predators.  I doubt that would have cost that much more than placing it in "modern day."

[TangledThorns]

PSA digital copies of the TERMINATOR films are on sale on VUDU. I bought 1 through 3, watching 2 right now. It's the film that has held up the most over the years, hard to believe it's almost 30 years old.

Yes, the original is a great classic but hasn't held up as well because of its dated SFX and very 1980s styling. 

[tekering]

The film opens on Friday here in Japan.  The Japanese distributors, in their infinite wisdom, have decided the English title is too dark.

They're calling it "Terminator: New Fate."

[Black Valkyrie]

 

Just saw it, I really enjoyed it, a worthy sequel.  They should have made it years ago.