Terminator: Dark Fate

[M'Kyuun]

I've only seen Genysis once, in the theater, so that was about four years ago. I have trouble remembering names of characters in shows I'm currently watching- I've had poor recall my whole life- so my memory of the film is quite dim.  IIRC, the big plot twist was that John Connor turned out to be an evil cyborg mastermind, as I remember Emilia and the other dude fighting him at the end after he revealed himself.  Your comments, Sketchley, make me think it bears re-watching.

The Terminator story strikes a deep chord, I think, as sci-fi, but also as probable history in the making as our AI science continues to develop along with advances in robotics. When I see what Boston Dynamics is doing, along with AI research bookended by warnings from Stephen Hawking and Elon Musk, it certainly gives credence to the potential development of a technology that outpaces us and eventually determines our fate. In '84 it was all pure sci-fi, although fascinating in what it portended. Today, there's an undercurrent of prescience to these films as advancements continue in quantum physics, robotics, AI, materials tech, the internet, communications, and space. It's all rather exciting, if a bit frightening. It's all great fun until it comes true; hope I'm not around to see it if it does.

[sh9000]

 

[derex3592]

F*cking BRING IT!!!! 

[Chronocidal]

So, as time goes on, this feels less and less like a time loop, and more like a time helix.  Like a spring coil, every trip around brings you back to the same point in one dimension, but you also sidestep into another level of the spring.  

I've always loved stable time loops as a plot device, but they hinge entirely on predestination, and function the best when all the points on the loop align (one of the best examples is Prisoner of Azkaban, from my memory of how it was treated).

Time travel is really just a plothole minefield.  Sidestepping into alternate futures fixes a lot of things in the immediate reality, but only in the sense that you don't see the chaos introduced in all the others.

Or, if we go with the helix idea.. what if the entirety of reality is represented by a giant time slinky, and when you initiate a new time loop by going into the past, what if the you in every other adjacent coil also goes back into the same loop?  It could actually serve as an addendum to conservation of mass, that you traveling to another reality requires the you from another reality taking your place.  The net effect would be every copy of you in every reality taking a side-step one reality over.

Tim Curry may have been far more correct than he realized.. maybe it really is just a jump to the left...  

[TangledThorns]

I've rewatched the trailer a few more times and it does hit all the right notes. My wife who isn't a Terminator fan liked the trailer too. 

 

[Knight26]

While I like the Terminator series, it never should have been a series.  The original Terminator was a perfect predestination time-loop.  People think it ends on as downer, Judgement Day is coming, but forget that the whole reason the time travel occurs is because SkyNet lost.  Timetravel was the last gamble to try and win, but also ensure that Skynet even existed.  I have always thought that SkyNet knew its origins so was always going to send a terminator back.  For Skynet sending back the terminator not only ensures its existance but gives it a chance to win by killing Sarah and unborn John Conner.  What Skynet didn't know was about Kyle Reese, which the last couple of films have screwed the pooch on.

 

Honestly, I am not looking forwards to this.  Genisys was a serious letdown and Salvation had potential but got screwed by bad writing and directing.

[Ryoma]

5 hours ago, Knight26 said:

While I like the Terminator series, it never should have been a series.  The original Terminator was a perfect predestination time-loop.  People think it ends on as downer, Judgement Day is coming, but forget that the whole reason the time travel occurs is because SkyNet lost.  Timetravel was the last gamble to try and win, but also ensure that Skynet even existed.  I have always thought that SkyNet knew its origins so was always going to send a terminator back.  For Skynet sending back the terminator not only ensures its existance but gives it a chance to win by killing Sarah and unborn John Conner.  What Skynet didn't know was about Kyle Reese, which the last couple of films have screwed the pooch on.

 

Honestly, I am not looking forwards to this.  Genisys was a serious letdown and Salvation had potential but got screwed by bad writing and directing.

I totally agree with you. I would also add that it is interesting to see the alternate ending scene in the T2 Blu-ray. Somewhere i read that, in the beginning, Cameron thought of that scene as the real ending of the series. We would have come full circle but then it would have made it more difficult to make more movies.

[electric indigo]

22 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

So, as time goes on, this feels less and less like a time loop, and more like a time helix.  Like a spring coil, every trip around brings you back to the same point in one dimension, but you also sidestep into another level of the spring.  

I've always loved stable time loops as a plot device, but they hinge entirely on predestination, and function the best when all the points on the loop align (one of the best examples is Prisoner of Azkaban, from my memory of how it was treated).

Time travel is really just a plothole minefield.  Sidestepping into alternate futures fixes a lot of things in the immediate reality, but only in the sense that you don't see the chaos introduced in all the others.

Or, if we go with the helix idea.. what if the entirety of reality is represented by a giant time slinky, and when you initiate a new time loop by going into the past, what if the you in every other adjacent coil also goes back into the same loop?  It could actually serve as an addendum to conservation of mass, that you traveling to another reality requires the you from another reality taking your place.  The net effect would be every copy of you in every reality taking a side-step one reality over.

Tim Curry may have been far more correct than he realized.. maybe it really is just a jump to the left...  

Try this one: If time is eternal, then every molecule has been at any possible place before somewhere in time, so all we can ever do is repeat something that has already happened. One giant loop for all & everything. I think Nietzsche used this concept to give up on everything.

[Mazinger]

26 minutes ago, electric indigo said:

Try this one: If time is eternal, then every molecule has been at any possible place before somewhere in time, so all we can ever do is repeat something that has already happened. One giant loop for all & everything. I think Nietzsche used this concept to give up on everything.

So Minmei really caused the Invid to attack teh Robotech Masters?!?

/s

[JB0]

12 hours ago, Knight26 said:

While I like the Terminator series, it never should have been a series.  The original Terminator was a perfect predestination time-loop. 

I think of it as two serieses at this point. There's the original film, The Terminator, and all the other films, which are just Terminator with no The.  Obviously, Terminator 2 implies something LIKE The Terminator happened, but it equally obviously isn't a direct sequel to The Terminator(John Connor's age isn't even right!)

 

5 hours ago, Mazinger said:

So Minmei really caused the Invid to attack teh Robotech Masters?!?

/s

Yes. And it was all because Skynet arranged it. Zor was actually a T-9001 endomorphic cyberorganism.

[sh9000]

Terminator related.  I’ll still buy this John Connor.

[TangledThorns]

What is it about John Connor and drugs? Drugs ruined Edward and Nick's acting careers.

[sh9000]

 

[TangledThorns]

Just read Furlong will be in this movie and it'll be rated R. Could turn out to be a good film.

[sh9000]

https://www.nme.com/news/edward-furlong-is-returning-as-john-connor-for-terminator-dark-fate-2530708

[derex3592]

DANG!  Rated R -- I'm SO there! Looks fun! 

[sh9000]

 

[TangledThorns]

Still looks good but I'm not interested in TERMINATOR like I used to. I think that ended when the FOX television series was cancelled

[Dobber]

That does look pretty good....though I am getting tired of the “something from nothing” nano-tech that is being done to death lately...particularly in Marvel. Just seems like the lazy way out to allow for “MOAR” whether it is more weapons, more enemies, heroes taking on more adversaries ect. It’s Just played out for me. Your mileage may vary. 

Chris

[Atheonyirh]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:39 PM, sketchley said:

Well... it's probably best to think of them as being in different cinematic realities.

Terminator 3 and Genisys are basically comedies.  So, they're best viewed with the critical thinking turned off, and just going along for the ride.

Salvation... uhm, it's the one with the Batman actor, and basically the only good thing about it is that it made Terminator 3 look good.

 

Nevertheless, I quite liked Genisys.  Not because of where the plot eventually ends up, but for all the nods to iconic moments in the previous films and how it usurps our expectations of how those scenes play out, and for the film being aware of the effects of a time loop (the combatants are evolving each time they pass through it), with suggestions that someone from farther in the future is using the time loop itself as a battleground—in the sense that who we thought are the main opponents [Skynet and John Conner] are actually the pawns of someone or something else.

 

Terminator 3 justifies its existence for the final few minutes with the missiles launching, honestly. Even if most of it is pretty damn dumb. I also loved Genisys and am honestly disappointed that it will never be followed up on. I thought the way it followed up on concepts from The Sarah Connor Chronicles regarding a temporal cold war, timeline shifts changing history dynamically, etc was interesting and really wanted to know what was up with Pops and it being unable, or unwilling, to explain where the hell it came from. On the other hand I'm still pissed about the second trailer for Genisys spoiling the big twist with John.

[Old_Nash]

So... Terminator Alien XD

More and More time paradox, but who's care.

[Mazinger]

4 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

Still looks good but I'm not interested in TERMINATOR like I used to. I think that ended when the FOX television series was cancelled

Yup, that series was actually going interesting places.  This looks cool and I'll watch it at home at least. But the movies really aren't building on any interesting story lines for me so don't feel all that exciting. 

[glane21]

Wonder where the old Arnold T800 comes from?  Hope it’s not the same one they melted at the end of T2.  Sad not to see Furlong in the trailer.  Hope they dried him out long enough to have more than a bit part.

[kalvasflam]

I do like the new Rev9 terminator.  Looks like they thought it through, and there was that imagery where the terminators have an endoskeleton and a liquid part over them.  Very cool.  Although it does make me wonder why the damned thing doesn't have any guns, and is limiting itself to stabbing objects.

[peter]

When I first heard about Dark Fate, I was curious, but the most recent trailers have me thinking it might be a pass. 

The Sarah Connor Chronicles had it's hooks in me, but when they cancelled the series and Genysis came out, it was a big WTF for me.  Even though Cameron is behind this, I'm still not convinced I shouldn't wait until it ends up on Netflix.

 

[Thom]

I too like the way Genesys played with the evolving timeline scenario. For the most part I liked it (especially Emilia Clark!), except for turning John into just another Terminator and the little after credit scene. I tend to turn it off before that aires and just view it as being set in an alternate universe.

 

[pengbuzz]

On 9/3/2019 at 10:25 PM, Thom said:

I too like the way Genesys played with the evolving timeline scenario. For the most part I liked it (especially Emilia Clark!), except for turning John into just another Terminator and the little after credit scene. I tend to turn it off before that aires and just view it as being set in an alternate universe.

 

Same; although for me, it opens up possibilities. How about multiple John and Sarah Connors in one timeline (coming in from alternate ones)? I envision that there could be a "running battle" where both Skynet and the Resistance's time-meddling has destabilized the whole time contimuum, and time itself begins to collapse.

[Thom]

8 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Same; although for me, it opens up possibilities. How about multiple John and Sarah Connors in one timeline (coming in from alternate ones)? I envision that there could be a "running battle" where both Skynet and the Resistance's time-meddling has destabilized the whole time contimuum, and time itself begins to collapse.

And then Skynet and the Resistance have to join forces in order to save the entire universe!

[Bolt]

Lol. Why not?! They've about run aground at this point. 

[sh9000]

 

 

 

 

[derex3592]

I'm ALL in! 

[David Hingtgen]

I'm thinking the MK11 Terminator DLC, may actually have a better storyline...  

[peter]

On 10/5/2019 at 3:37 PM, sh9000 said:

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'm a bit intrigued...still not sure I'll see this in theatres, but at least now I'm on the fence.   

[Knight26]

These leave me with more questions than answers, or desires to see it.
Where in the timeline is this?
Did they stop/delay judgement day?
Where is John Conner?
Why do we care about this Dani girl?
How/why/by whom was Grace "enhanced?"

[TangledThorns]

I'll wait till you guys see it and post reviews first, lol.