Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

Her armor does stand out.  You know what it says, out of a sea of white targets, that chrome piece of crap is screaming "SHOT ME, SHOT ME"

I dunno, depending on the lighting conditions, she might very well blend right into the environment versus the stark white of a regular Stormtrooper... Are they Stormtroopers now? It never even crossed my question that...

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, no doubt Phasma was meant to be the new trilogy's memetic badass like Boba Fett.

Unfortunately, she's a little too much like Boba Fett in that her status as a badass and The Dreaded is entirely Informed Ability and isn't actually supported by onscreen performance.

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Fett for the loser that he is. He does about as much and gets humiliated as much in the OT as Phasma does in the NT.

9 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

Seriously. She had armor that deflected lasers. Um so the new Empire er I mean, what are they now, storm-troopers could not get an upgrade in their armor.

I thought Stormtrooper armor IS laser-proof. You have to aim for the seams.

Maybe that was just part of the EU? I know they get taken down willy-nilly in the movies, but I figure that's simply a case of Rule of Cool.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Fett for the loser that he is. He does about as much and gets humiliated as much in the OT as Phasma does in the NT.

I've never understood his memetic badass status in Star Wars.  I assume it comes from the Expanded Universe, since in the actual movies he growls out a few lines and the one time we actually see him fight he's almost instantly defeated by Luke and then again by Han, who accidentally knocks him into the mouth of a giant anus monster in the Tattooine desert.  That isn't exactly inspiring... he's literally less effective in a fight than Jar-Jar Binks.

 

20 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

I thought Stormtrooper armor IS laser-proof. You have to aim for the seams.

Maybe that was just part of the EU? I know they get taken down willy-nilly in the movies, but I figure that's simply a case of Rule of Cool.

They seem to go down when shot pretty much anywhere.

One of the vague recollections I have of the Star Wars books I was exposed to as a kid was of a short story where that fact was acknowledged and explained.  I think it might have been a cost thing?  Like, armor that could repel kill shots was too expensive to mass produce on that scale so they went with stunproof?  There was something in the story about wanting to equip the stormtroopers with a personal energy shield that was under development and their dickish treatment of the developer drove them to the Rebellion's side?

[Smacky]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Fett for the loser that he is. He does about as much and gets humiliated as much in the OT as Phasma does in the NT.

His character was significantly expanded in the EU, having survived the Sarlacc pit and eventually leading the Mandalorians.  He finally lived up to the hype in the books and play a big role a few story lines, especially the Yuuzhan Vong war and the fight against Darth Caedus (he trains Jaina Solo).

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

They seem to go down when shot pretty much anywhere.

One of the vague recollections I have of the Star Wars books I was exposed to as a kid was of a short story where that fact was acknowledged and explained.  

I think I saw the armor deflect a shot once, most likely in the Solo movie.

[kalvasflam]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I've never understood his memetic badass status in Star Wars.  I assume it comes from the Expanded Universe, since in the actual movies he growls out a few lines and the one time we actually see him fight he's almost instantly defeated by Luke and then again by Han, who accidentally knocks him into the mouth of a giant anus monster in the Tattooine desert.  That isn't exactly inspiring... he's literally less effective in a fight than Jar-Jar Binks.

Well, let's be honest, Fett probably got lucky somehow, and then had a series of lucky coincidences which cemented his reputation.  But listen, it can only improve from there, the actor for Jango is going to be Aquaman's dad.  So, that's gotta be a good thing right?  His son talks to fish... that's definitely an improvement over "My son got swallowed by a stationary thing in the middle of the desert because a blind guy accidentally shoved a pole into his rocket pack, and he fell in."    Hmmm, that came out wrong.  Oh well.  

As for Phasma, I argue she would fit right in with the KoR.  Because if the guys Reylo minced in Ep VIII were KoR, let's face it, they were pretty incompetent and stupid too.  Hello, your boss just got offed by his apprentice, and now the few of you morons are going to fight him?  Then what?  The logical process of thought would've been, "Oh crap, Snoke is dead, we're going to get revenge, and kill his assassin... wait a minute, let's say we kill these two, then what are we gonna do?  What the heck, why are we risking life and limb for a dead guy again?  Screw it.  I'm going to sit back and do nothing, that's usually a good idea.  After all, no reason for the apprentice to be mad at us, we've just stood around posing." 

[electric indigo]

Back in the age where you couldn't binge watch a whole trilogy, there was a three year span between Empire and Jedi where Boba Fett was the coolest character right after Vader. I felt massively let down by the Sarlacc scene.

I seem to remember that it was explicitly stated that the Red Guys were not the KoR.

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, electric indigo said:

Back in the age where you couldn't binge watch a whole trilogy, there was a three year span between Empire and Jedi where Boba Fett was the coolest character right after Vader. I felt massively let down by the Sarlacc scene.

 

That was the time frame where I kept asking "Why?" to those that thought he was cool, and the only answer I ever got was because he was "cool".  I thought the character was a cut out villain without enough dialog to have much impression either way.  Then the third movie came along.

[Nightbat]

On 10/9/2018 at 7:28 PM, Dynaman said:

In this thread, none.

In the net at large I think there are a lot of them.

1st: how do you know?

2nd: How do you know?

 

On 10/9/2018 at 7:28 PM, Dynaman said:

 The fact it is a stupid movie is not important - that it is a place they (paid foreign groups) can drive a wedge is.

If you wanna disjoint society you're not gonna put an effort (or money) in trolling moviefans and critics

(and after the prequels, even Russia knows SW isn't the hill people will die on)

Better to pay hackers to screw up everyday utilities, just imagine what would happen if every stop sign in New York is switched to red for an hour, or everyone's gender has been swapped at City registry

[Dynaman]

No longer care to comment on anything not directly Star War related.  

back to Boba Fett and Phasma, Idiots or Badd Arses?

[Seto Kaiba]

35 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

No longer care to comment on anything not directly Star War related.  

back to Boba Fett and Phasma, Idiots or Badd Arses?

Imagine my amusement when a little digging revealed I was spot on about Phasma... she was added because coverage of the first table read of The Force Awakens got a lot of feedback on social media about there being too many men/not enough women.

In hindsight, it adds a new and cynically amusing dimension to Phasma's character.  The audience demanded the writers add a new female character purely for representation's sake, so the movie's writers crowbarred her into a few scenes that totally subvert her alleged reputation as the badass action girl the fans clamored for, showed that she is so bad at her job that Starkiller Base is lost entirely because of her, and then literally threw her in the trash.

Boba Fett was a background character who the fans blew out of all proportion because he looked cool... Phasma is the living embodiment of the writers saying "Don't tell me how to do my job".

Fans clamored for her to not be killed off, so they brought her back in The Last Jedi to get beaten even worse.  She manages a few intimidating lines and is promptly beaten by a droid and tossed down another hole by Finn after being beaten with a riot baton.

What are the odds this is some kind of self-aware act of parody?  

Edited October 11, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

Maybe the same thing happened to Fett between V and VI. It would certainly explain why he's so flippantly discarded in that movie... And it's not like Star Wars doesn't have a history of its creators hate hate HATING its fans...

Hmm...

 

 

I don't think that actually happened, of course, but it would be so appropriate. It's like poetry, y'know - it rhymes.

[electric indigo]

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/So-Why-Boba-Fett-Died-So-Early-Star-Wars-Return-Jedi-128897.html

[kalvasflam]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Imagine my amusement when a little digging revealed I was spot on about Phasma... she was added because coverage of the first table read of The Force Awakens got a lot of feedback on social media about there being too many men/not enough women.

In hindsight, it adds a new and cynically amusing dimension to Phasma's character.  The audience demanded the writers add a new female character purely for representation's sake, so the movie's writers crowbarred her into a few scenes that totally subvert her alleged reputation as the badass action girl the fans clamored for, showed that she is so bad at her job that Starkiller Base is lost entirely because of her, and then literally threw her in the trash.

Boba Fett was a background character who the fans blew out of all proportion because he looked cool... Phasma is the living embodiment of the writers saying "Don't tell me how to do my job".

Fans clamored for her to not be killed off, so they brought her back in The Last Jedi to get beaten even worse.  She manages a few intimidating lines and is promptly beaten by a droid and tossed down another hole by Finn after being beaten with a riot baton.

What are the odds this is some kind of self-aware act of parody?  

You know, this is the problem with going all in on these social issues for the movies, they've done such a horrible job that they end up making woman look bad.  The impression you walk away with on Phasma is that she is nothing more than a specially dressed, babble spouting, idiotic nutjob.  Congrats Hollywood, way to make a strong female character.  Then with Rey, they went the opposite direction, she's essentially the second coming of Anakin Skywalker, so damned powerful that she can fly ships without training, duel with lightsaber and use the force with nary a glance.  

Disney should just stick with what its good at, great popcorn flicks, stop trying to be so social on everything.

[Seto Kaiba]

36 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Then with Rey, they went the opposite direction, she's essentially the second coming of Anakin Skywalker, so damned powerful that she can fly ships without training, duel with lightsaber and use the force with nary a glance.

IMO, there's nothing really inconsistent there in The Force Awakens.  

Rey has been working salvage on spacecraft of every stripe from fighters all the way up to the largest capital ships for essentially her entire adult life and a fair chunk of her childhood.  It's not unreasonable for her to have at least a basic grasp of how to fly the ships she's spent her entire life scrapping, and a good grasp of the underlying technology in order to identify what parts were the valuable ones.  She gets around on an antigrav jetbike, IIRC, and that's not exactly a simple machine either.

With respect to using the force, didn't Yoda pretty definitively establish that one of the most important factors to using the force was belief?  Rey grew up hearing legends of Luke Skywalker and has been told by no less a person than Han frigging Solo that it was ALL TRUE.  Luke was a grown up cynical man who hadn't grown up hearing stories of the amazing power of the force, so he had a lot to unlearn before he could unleash his full potential.  Rey doesn't have that problem.  She doesn't do anything complex, and it takes her several tries to get simple stuff right, but the fact that she went into it believing the force could do anything she's not working with the same limitations on her access to power that Luke was.

As for the dueling... yeah, she beat Kylo Ren.  A badly injured Kylo Ren who'd tanked a shot from Chewie's crossbow that previously had been knocking stormtroopers several feet backwards with every hit AND gotten several lightsaber wounds from Finn.  An untrained amateur with implicit trust in the force beat a winded, wounded professional who was in the middle of bleeding out and catching hypothermia while also losing some power due to being conflicted about his alliegance to the dark side AND trying not to hurt her.  It's not like she spanked him at the top of his game, 

 

36 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

You know, this is the problem with going all in on these social issues for the movies, they've done such a horrible job that they end up making woman look bad.  The impression you walk away with on Phasma is that she is nothing more than a specially dressed, babble spouting, idiotic nutjob.  Congrats Hollywood, way to make a strong female character. 

Yeah, Phasma was a damp squib when you consider they put a ton of press focus on her for what turned out to be a glorified cameo appearnace... but I'm not convinced that trolling the fandom wasn't the whole point there.

[Bolt]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:21 AM, kajnrig said:

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees Fett for the loser that he is. He does about as much and gets humiliated as much in the OT as Phasma does in the NT.

Except he manages to track down and capture Han Solo. As one of ,arguably, the most deadly non force users around. He also goes toe to toe with Luke But only gets defeated, comically, by accident.

( not to mention his lineage)

There’s also been decades of books and comics to further bolster his bad a$$ ness a long time ago in a galaxy far far away..

i say this because theirs simply way more material and depth with the Great Mandolore than phasma will ever have. (And Boba Fet is the man)

Comparing the two  can only go so far.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Bolt

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

The impression you walk away with on Phasma is that she is nothing more than a specially dressed, babble spouting, idiotic nutjob. 

To be fair that is a description of EVERYONE, male or female, in the movie.  Minus the specially dressed part for some.  

[kajnrig]

4 hours ago, electric indigo said:

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/So-Why-Boba-Fett-Died-So-Early-Star-Wars-Return-Jedi-128897.html

Neato. The only point I take issue with is "Instead, we’re left with the story as it is, and one well-digested bounty hunter." Because... I mean, c'mon. They spell it out in the movie. 1,000 years of digestion sounds incredibly NOT well-digested. And if he escapes a la the EU, then all the less well-digested. I wonder what it's even like down there. Maybe slightly cavernous, with meaty walls that are perpetually slightly moist with mucus and digestive fluids... You could probably walk around from stomach to stomach without much in the way of impedance. There'd also have to be some source of fresh air, or even recycled air, to keep you alive for as long as possible. I mean, logically there wouldn't, you'd just suffocate before making it very far through a long long long digestive tract, which begs the question of how it's supposed to be a form of torment instead of just a very sadistic form of execution but blargh;alksdjf;alksdfja

3 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Then with Rey, they went the opposite direction, she's essentially the second coming of Anakin Skywalker, so damned powerful that she can fly ships without training, duel with lightsaber and use the force with nary a glance.

I don't get where people get this reading of her, nor why it's a problem for her to be as potentially strong with the Force as Anakin was. Is it because of The Prophecy? No one can be as powerful as him? Of all the dumb things from the PT to assimilate into your head canon, why take the Jedi prophecy and the Star Wars equivalent of DBZ power levels? I mean, for one, the OT never needed a prophecy gone wrong to explain why Anakin/Vader is supposedly such a badass, and for another, he's never actually shown being all that powerful, he just does a whole lot of choking people from across the room. Anakin being The Chosen One is lazy writing. Or as Lucas puts it, "It's like poetry. It's sort of... they rhyme."

So it isn't inherently a problem for her to be as powerful as Anakin et al, but even if it is, she's never actually shown being able to fly ships without training or duel with lightsabers and use the Force with nary a glance. Her flying ability is alluded to in the early scenes of TFA - everything from her occupation to her hobbies center around starships, so at the very least, the movie demonstrates her keen interest in them - and she actually struggles mightily with the Falcon before figuring it out enough to get Finn and her out of a sticky situation. She doesn't just get into the cockpit and immediately run circles around the TIEs. She is as amateurish in her fight against Kylo Ren as Finn is, up until she embraces the Force and finally gains the upper hand against a physically and emotionally wounded adversary. Her use of the Force is shown to be haphazard at best throughout the movie, more often frightening her than helping her, and it's again only during the climax of the movie that she begins to wield it with intention.

And even if it IS a problem for her to be inherently as powerful as Anakin et al, and even if she DOES fly ships without training and duel with lightsabers and use the Force with nary a glance, then it's a problem you should have with this entire world. Anakin uses the Force to pilot Formula 1 cars and take down a super doughnut as a friggin' child (in a space fighter for which he has no training). Luke climbs into an X-Wing (for which he has no training^*) and uses the Force (for which he has no training) to blow up the Death Star. The Emperor and Yoda both demonstrate Force abilities far in excess of what Vader ever does. To say that what Rey does is any more implausible than what Anakin/Luke do is... well, it's certainly not well-reasoned.

 

_{*I'm sure it's explained in the supplementary materials why he actually IS familiar with an X-Wing or that it shares controls systems with his T-16 or whatever and thus he would be able to pilot it, which only reinforces my point.}

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, Phasma was a damp squib when you consider they put a ton of press focus on her for what turned out to be a glorified cameo appearnace... but I'm not convinced that trolling the fandom wasn't the whole point there.

I think they might have been trying to make lightning strike twice. Because like Fett, Phasma's design is pretty cool (I guess... I dunno, Star Wars aesthetic was never my cup of tea), and like Fett, she doesn't really... do anything.

Maybe like Fett, she'll also coast on the strength of her design until writers can write her into a badass. I dunno.

2 hours ago, Bolt said:

Except he manages to track down and capture Han Solo. As one of ,arguably, the most deadly non force users around. He also goes toe to toe with Luke But only gets defeated, comically, by accident.

( not to mention his lineage)

You mean this lineage?  (though to be fair, EVERYONE looks bad in AotC... and boy oh boy that CGI did not age well)

 

I kid, of course. But with regards to Boba Fett specifically, I don't think it's particularly impressive, what he did. He tracked the Falcon to Bespin, then told the Empire they were there in exchange for getting Han's frozen body. It's not so much impressive as expected. If he schemed and machinated his way to isolating and/or capturing Han, that would be a different story, but as it is, he's a pretty minor character in the OT.

Quote

There’s also been decades of books and comics to further bolster his bad a$$ ness a long time ago in a galaxy far far away..

i say this because theirs simply way more material and depth with the Great Mandolor than phasma will ever have. (And Boba Fet is the man)

Comparing them can only go so far.

Kind of an unfair comparison on its face, isn't it? "This character that has had decades of stories that turned him into a badass is a badass. This new character that does not yet have decades of stories that turn her into a badass isn't a badass." Like... I get what you're trying to say - that Phasma won't be embraced by fans the way Boba Fett was - but the way you chose to say it is... bad. There's comparing apples and oranges, and there's comparing warm apple cider and an orange tree bud.

And I mean, it's not like Boba Fett even did any of those things. Because he didn't.

Edited October 12, 2018 by kajnrig

[Bolt]

Jango actually did pretty good against Obi Wan. On the ground and in space. 

Mace Windu was one of the greatest and most deadly Jedi. Even invented his own saber style. It’s no wonder Jango or even Palpatine, for that matter, could not beat him. 

(And I think he would have made Dooku  dooki..)

The stories about Boba Fett didn’t “turn him into a bad ass” - those stories were written BECAUSE he was a. Bad ass. Wheather you like him or not, there’s a reason people wanted  more fett.

I don’t think people are going to want as much Phasma . Which is too bad,as she could have been much more interesting than what we got. ( though I’m sure she’s being pumped in the comics)

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bolt

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Except he manages to track down and capture Han Solo. As one of ,arguably, the most deadly non force users around. He also goes toe to toe with Luke But only gets defeated, comically, by accident.

"Capture" is a VERY strong word for what happened there...

He tracked Han Solo to Cloud City literally by following the Millennium Falcon at a distance, which isn't really a great feat of skill or cunning.  He didn't actually do anything on Cloud City except grumble a bit, and received Han Solo almost literally gift-wrapped for transport to Jabba the Hutt.  Vader did literally the heavy lifting for him.

 

 

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

I think they might have been trying to make lightning strike twice. Because like Fett, Phasma's design is pretty cool (I guess... I dunno, Star Wars aesthetic was never my cup of tea), and like Fett, she doesn't really... do anything.

Oh, undoubtably... that's the reason they felt compelled to give her a cape and a shiny chromed armor paintjob.  The goal was to be the new faceless, intimidating badass because that worked SO well for Boba Fett even though he accomplished the square root of bugger all in the actual movies before being accidentally killed by a blind man waving a stick.  Unfortunately they succeeded a little too much, and also gave Phasma Boba Fett's all-bark-and-no-bite onscreen performance as a humiliating failure who betrays all of the First Order to save her own skin and gets tossed in the garbage, comes back to get beaten up by a mook and a beepy soccer ball before falling down a bottomless pit.

Rumor has it Phasma took dance lessons, but only ever learned the steps to the Masochism Tango.

 

 

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Maybe like Fett, she'll also coast on the strength of her design until writers can write her into a badass. I dunno.

It seems unlikely... from what I've seen and read, Star Wars fans seem to have rather cynically spotted her for the Boba Fett ripoff she is and in conjunction with her appalling onscreen performance given her an unofficial designation as the new trilogy's chew toy.

[kajnrig]

36 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Jango actually did pretty good against Obi Wan. On the ground and in space. 

In terms of getting what he wanted and preventing Obi-wan from getting what he wanted, yes, of course. How they bumble around each other is more silly than badass, though. (Though that's hardly the fault of the characters themselves, that has more to do with how the scene was shot and composited, the effects looking dated, etc. Hence why I was kidding.)

36 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Mace Windu was one of the greatest and most deadly Jedi. Even invented his own saber style. It’s no wonder Jango or even Palpatine, for that matter, could not beat him. 

(And I think he would have made Dooku  dooki..)

I'll take your word on it. I was hyped for Mace Windu in Episode I because it was Samuel L. Mother-Loving Jackson with a purple beam saber yooooOOOOO and then the prequels were the prequels, so I quickly lost all interest in Star Wars lore.

36 minutes ago, Bolt said:

The stories about Boba Fett didn’t “turn him into a bad ass” - those stories were written BECAUSE he was a. Bad ass. Wheather you like him or not, there’s a reason people wanted  more fett.

His design certainly was badass, and with his being a bounty hunter... Cool-looking guy in a cool occupation? It's not hard to see why people wanted to make more of him than what he was. I'm just saying that based solely on what he actually did - not how he looked, which again stands for a lot - he wasn't all that.

Like... Boba Fett is no Wedge, right? I freaking love Wedge Antilles, and always have ever since I made the connection that he was in all three movies and survived all three major battles. Dude gets barely any lines or screen time, has no Force powers and zero plot armor whatsoever, and still manages to make it through everything.

What's the TV Tropes term for someone like him? Badass Normal? Yeah, he's that.

36 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I don’t think people are going to want as much Phasma . Which is too bad,as she could have been much more interesting than what we got. ( though I’m sure she’s being pumped in the comics)

I'll have to take your word on the comics, too, since I don't follow things outside of the movies. Or, well, I don't anymore. If we'd had this convo when I was a teenager, I'd probably have more to add there. I'm not too worried about her not getting more material, though, because people sure will try their damnedest to do her what justice they deem has been denied her.

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It seems unlikely... from what I've seen and read, Star Wars fans seem to have rather cynically spotted her for the Boba Fett ripoff she is and in conjunction with her appalling onscreen performance given her an unofficial designation as the new trilogy's chew toy.

SOMEBODY will. It'll be a thankless job, but someone will inevitably be like, "Hold my beer." It's happened with worse characters coming off of worse story arcs. Might not be someone from the fandom, but it'll happen. Neil Gaiman turned a goofy sand-sprinkling superhero into an all-powerful anthropomorphic concept and no one blinked an eye. Someone'll see it done.

[Smacky]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

With respect to using the force, didn't Yoda pretty definitively establish that one of the most important factors to using the force was belief?  Rey grew up hearing legends of Luke Skywalker and has been told by no less a person than Han frigging Solo that it was ALL TRUE.  Luke was a grown up cynical man who hadn't grown up hearing stories of the amazing power of the force, so he had a lot to unlearn before he could unleash his full potential.  Rey doesn't have that problem.  She doesn't do anything complex, and it takes her several tries to get simple stuff right, but the fact that she went into it believing the force could do anything she's not working with the same limitations on her access to power that Luke was.

As for the dueling... yeah, she beat Kylo Ren.  A badly injured Kylo Ren who'd tanked a shot from Chewie's crossbow that previously had been knocking stormtroopers several feet backwards with every hit AND gotten several lightsaber wounds from Finn.  An untrained amateur with implicit trust in the force beat a winded, wounded professional who was in the middle of bleeding out and catching hypothermia while also losing some power due to being conflicted about his alliegance to the dark side AND trying not to hurt her.  It's not like she spanked him at the top of his game.

If that were the case, then why have a Jedi academy and make potential Jedi go through years of training?  I think that’s just one aspect of it is that yes, you need to believe in the force and it’s abilities, but they also had to learn how to harness its power.  I don’t for a second believe that because Rey heard some stories it and then had said stories confirmed makes her all powerful.  She was able to defeat a weakened Kylo, use force powers like a force pull, beat Luke in a sparring match, take out some Royal Guards, all in the span of 3 days.  

[jenius]

I'm not sure about the back and forth here but the first time I watched "The Force Awakens" I though that Kylo unlocked something while he was mind probing her. Like, she had been trained in her youth and then, for her safety, that training with her youth were locked away from her and she was dumped on Jakku. I guess they could still go that route depending on what they choose to do (if anything) with her parentage.  Make her the kid of a sith/dark Jedi who trained her and then dumped her when Luke came looking for him and things could get more interesting.

The Jedi Academy can go a few ways. The kids accepted by the Jedi all clearly demonstrate that they have force power. You could argue that the Jedi Academy is more about corralling these kids before they just start winging it and doing very bad things with their powers... 

[Bolt]

 

17 minutes ago, Smacky said:

all in the span of 3 days.  

Yes , yes. It was way too rushed onscreen. Hardly the proper(ish) training Luke received on Degobah. 

IIRC Luke said something about the last rime he saw that kind of power he wasn’t scared enough but he is now. He was referring to Rey in the present instance but I’m not sure if he was referring to Kylo about the past. 

Based on her rapidly evolving force powers, Rey could be the most powerful force user yet..

just wish it could have been portrayed better..

Edited October 12, 2018 by Bolt

[tekering]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Anakin uses the Force to pilot Formula 1 cars and take down a super doughnut as a friggin' child (in a space fighter for which he has no training).

7 minutes ago, Smacky said:

I don’t for a second believe that because Rey heard some stories it and then had said stories confirmed makes her all powerful.  She was able to defeat a weakened Kylo, use force powers like a force pull, beat Luke in a sparring match, take out some Royal Guards, all in the span of 3 days.  

I think you're all missing the obvious here.  Rey is all-powerful for the same reason Anakin was:

 

 

[kajnrig]

5 minutes ago, jenius said:

The Jedi Academy can go a few ways. The kids accepted by the Jedi all clearly demonstrate that they have force power. You could argue that the Jedi Academy is more about corralling these kids before they just start winging it and doing very bad things with their powers... 

I prefer to think it was a half-baked idea Lucas had that he then poorly implemented in the making of the prequels. Having the ONE Jedi Academy, especially on a city planet... it doesn't work well, thematically. (Maybe the EU expanded the number of academies, but it certainly didn't seem like there were multiple based on the PT.) Before the PT, I envisioned Jedi training academies as patterned after Buddhist temples in old-timey China, or maybe the Shaolin temples. Y'know, one here, one there, often close to nature, sometimes poor and kept up thanks to the generosity of the locals, and so on.

That's kind of how it is in the EU, too, IIRC. Since Luke's the only remaining Jedi (or the only trained one, at any rate), he sets up a Jedi... Temple? Academy? on Yavin IV (maybe repurposing the old Rebel base?) and brings students from all over to train, Shaolin monk-style, before setting them off into the world.

23 minutes ago, Smacky said:

I don’t for a second believe that because Rey heard some stories it and then had said stories confirmed makes her all powerful.  She was able to defeat a weakened Kylo, use force powers like a force pull, beat Luke in a sparring match, take out some Royal Guards, all in the span of 3 days.  

I don't keep track of Star Wars timetables; I figured that her going to Luke's planet took an indeterminate amount of time, in which time the setup for TLJ happened. No? Yes? By the end of TFA I had kind of checked out.

[Roy Focker]

Boba Fett was good in Empire as the mysterious stranger.   He looked cool.  Did little but was competent in what he did.  You were left wanting to see more.  As kid when Jedi came out I knew we would see him again.  Being the last film he was sure to die but we would see him use every single weapon before that happens.  We didn't and that was so disappointing.   Maybe an in universe explanation is that Fett's successful cause he out thinks his targets, intimidates them to surrendering without fighting them or kills them by ambush.  In reality he's always been terrible at fighting.

Captain Phasma on the other hand was just incompetent.   You'd think she would be competent to earn her position but she's out smarted by some of the least smartest heroes and was out fought by a former underling of the lowest rank who just woke up from a coma yesterday.  If she was suppose to be a badass we never saw it. 

[renegadeleader1]

What made Boba cool was the fact he outsmarted Han by figuring out he was hiding somewhere waiting until the fleet left, Vader had to take a moment to personally address him regarding "no disintegrations, and he talked back to Vader without repercussions. This was at a time when all we knew about Vader was he had a habit of choking fools who displeased him.

[Dynaman]

9 hours ago, kajnrig said:

 

I don't keep track of Star Wars timetables; I figured that her going to Luke's planet took an indeterminate amount of time, in which time the setup for TLJ happened. No? Yes? By the end of TFA I had kind of checked out.

It can't take a long time since the other items going on in TLJ all happen within a few days of the end of TFA.

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

It can't take a long time since the other items going on in TLJ all happen within a few days of the end of TFA.

How long was it between ANH and ESB? I seem to remember having the same feeling going from TFA to TLJ as that. Even if it's just a few days, a week tops, from when Rey leaves the fleet to when she finds Luke.

5 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Did little but was competent in what he did....

...Captain Phasma on the other hand was just incompetent.

Fair point.

 

[kajnrig]

12 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The goal was to be the new faceless, intimidating badass because that worked SO well for Boba Fett even though he accomplished the square root of bugger all in the actual movies before being accidentally killed by a blind man waving a stick.

I dunno, applying the Blind status to Rod wielders seems to exploit a glitch in the game that turns them OP.

(side note: Chirrut, the best of very few good things to come out of that movie)

EDIT:

Whoops, meant to add to the previous post, my b y'all.

Edited October 12, 2018 by kajnrig

[Seto Kaiba]

12 hours ago, kajnrig said:

SOMEBODY will. It'll be a thankless job, but someone will inevitably be like, "Hold my beer." It's happened with worse characters coming off of worse story arcs. Might not be someone from the fandom, but it'll happen.

I dunno... from what I've heard, most of the Star Wars EU was pure and unrepentant garbage.  I don't think things have necessarily improved with Disney at the helm.

 

12 hours ago, Smacky said:

If that were the case, then why have a Jedi academy and make potential Jedi go through years of training?

Gonna hazard a guess and say it's probably something to do with emotional control and "practice makes perfect", since not being in control of your emotions is a path to the dark side.

 

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

I dunno, applying the Blind status to Rod wielders seems to exploit a glitch in the game that turns them OP.

Nonsense, you heard the man... he is one with the Force, and the Force is with him.

He might've been blind, but the man was rolling nothing but 20's on his spot checks.

[kalvasflam]

7 hours ago, kajnrig said:

How long was it between ANH and ESB? I seem to remember having the same feeling going from TFA to TLJ as that. Even if it's just a few days, a week tops, from when Rey leaves the fleet to when she finds Luke.

Star Wars movies always seem to have issues with time.  I think the time period in TLJ might actually be easier to explain if it weren't for the Reylo interactions.  Because you could infer that Rey was with Luke for months while the actions between the Resistance and the FO was taking place over the span of just a few days.   ESB is quite a bit harder consider how the rebels all left Hoth at the same time, for Luke to realistically get more than a few days of training with Yoda, one would have to infer that the Falcon was playing hide and seek with the Empire in the asteroid belt for weeks.  

But then, if we put any of these movies to any kind of serious analysis, everything would start to fall apart.  So, I guess we just have to completely ignore disbelief and enjoy the show.

[Smacky]

21 hours ago, jenius said:

I'm not sure about the back and forth here but the first time I watched "The Force Awakens" I though that Kylo unlocked something while he was mind probing her. Like, she had been trained in her youth and then, for her safety, that training with her youth were locked away from her and she was dumped on Jakku. I guess they could still go that route depending on what they choose to do (if anything) with her parentage.  Make her the kid of a sith/dark Jedi who trained her and then dumped her when Luke came looking for him and things could get more interesting.

The Jedi Academy can go a few ways. The kids accepted by the Jedi all clearly demonstrate that they have force powers.

Her lineage questions were answered in TLJ, and Johnson confirmed in follow up interviews he intended for her to be the child of nobodies.  Although of course this could be changed in the next movie and say her parents used a memory rub on her to hide her past.

It’s 3 years between ANH and ESB and another year between ESB and RoTJ.  TLJ literally takes place right after TFA, when she’s just about to hand Luke his lightsaber.

Don’t get me wrong, I like TFA and even though I found the story unoriginal, it was a good Star Wars movie and ranked ahead of the prequels for me, but after Rogue One.  TLJ just literally destroyed any kind of setup that TFA created and was absolute garbage.  Snoke made out to be a bad ass like the Emperor, nope, killed off like a second rate punk.  Hux and Phasma, bad asses of The First Order, nope, made into a running joke.  Rey with a mysterious past and most likely awesome lineage, nope, just a nobody abandoned on a junk planet.  The list goes on...

[Dynaman]

4 hours ago, kalvasflam said:

Star Wars movies always seem to have issues with time.  I think the time period in TLJ might actually be easier to explain if it weren't for the Reylo interactions.  Because you could infer that Rey was with Luke for months while the actions between the Resistance and the FO was taking place over the span of just a few days.   ESB is quite a bit harder consider how the rebels all left Hoth at the same time, for Luke to realistically get more than a few days of training with Yoda, one would have to infer that the Falcon was playing hide and seek with the Empire in the asteroid belt for weeks.  

But then, if we put any of these movies to any kind of serious analysis, everything would start to fall apart.  So, I guess we just have to completely ignore disbelief and enjoy the show.

The main problem with ESB time is that going FTL in Star Wars is only possible with the jump drive and the Falcon went to another star system.  At best that is a 1 year journey (I really doubt any star systems are closer then that)

[kajnrig]

2 hours ago, Smacky said:

Don’t get me wrong, I like TFA and even though I found the story unoriginal, it was a good Star Wars movie and ranked ahead of the prequels for me, but after Rogue One. TLJ just literally destroyed any kind of setup that TFA created and was absolute garbage.

Kinda sounds like you want it both ways here. You want something to be original, yet the movie that does original things with the setup it receives you proceed to trash because it doesn't take those setups in a familiar direction...

2 hours ago, Smacky said:

Snoke made out to be a bad ass like the Emperor, nope, killed off like a second rate punk.

Rewatching his scenes in TFA, I was reminded that he holo-projected himself to be ten times bigger than he really is for... literally no reason. Whatever else he does or says, it has to be filtered through that lens. He made a scary face? He holo-projected himself to be ten times bigger than he really is, THEN made a scary face. Said something cool? He holo-projected himself to be ten times bigger than he really is, THEN said something cool. It's almost like he was literally projecting a facade that looked more imposing than he really was... And the tactic seems to have worked, too, at least in a metafictional sense.