Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[derex3592]

Anyone watched the 90 minute making of extra called “The Director and The Jedi”?  I did tonight. Love or hate the movie, watching this, you really have to admire the sheer amount of work the cast and crew put into EP 8,  and it also gives some pretty fair insight into Johnson’s vision of the film and Hamills feelings about it. It’s a good watch. 

[Black Valkyrie]

 

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/mark-hamill-reveals-why-hes-no-longer-interested-in-returning-to-the-star-wars-franchise-a159521

 

[kajnrig]

41 minutes ago, Black Valkyrie said:

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/star_wars/mark-hamill-reveals-why-hes-no-longer-interested-in-returning-to-the-star-wars-franchise-a159521

To put less of a pissy fanboy spin on that article:

"Carrie Fisher's death has greatly impacted Mark Hamill's desire to return to the franchise. 'I don't care anymore on that level [of coming back to the franchise] because Han Solo is gone, Luke is gone,' Hamill said. 'And you just can't get the band back together the way you wanted it to be following Carrie's passing.'"

On the upside, that article did link me to this, which gets me giddy:

https://animemojo.com/shonen/godzilla-mashes-up-with-the-jaegers-in-a-new-pacific-rim-uprising-collab-poster-a4148

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, kajnrig said:

To put less of a pissy fanboy spin on that article:

"Carrie Fisher's death has greatly impacted Mark Hamill's desire to return to the franchise. 'I don't care anymore on that level [of coming back to the franchise] because Han Solo is gone, Luke is gone,' Hamill said. 'And you just can't get the band back together the way you wanted it to be following Carrie's passing.'"

I mean.. I would have figured this should be obvious to pretty much anyone involved, but it does play along well with the thought that Hamill really didn't like the direction Luke went in the last movie.   

I've been under no impression that "getting the band back together" was even remotely on the table from the start of the new trilogy, honestly.  The closest we had was Han and Chewie boarding the Falcon in TFA, and that was about the last real nugget of nostalgia we got along those lines.

[ZorClone]

19 hours ago, derex3592 said:

Anyone watched the 90 minute making of extra called “The Director and The Jedi”?  I did tonight. Love or hate the movie, watching this, you really have to admire the sheer amount of work the cast and crew put into EP 8,  and it also gives some pretty fair insight into Johnson’s vision of the film and Hamills feelings about it. It’s a good watch. 

Yes, the docu was excellent.  I may not agree with a lot of what Johnson decided to do, but it does help me respect and appreciate the work he did.  There's absolutely no doubt how big of a SW fan he is.

Overall, I appreciate what TLJ has done for Star Wars.  It NEEDED a slap in the face if it's going to properly move forward and stop re-treading nostalgia and repeating the same Skywalker theme over and over.

But... that movie needed an ending that didn't leave both the audience AND the characters having no on-screen idea of what to do next.  That's the decision that bugs me the most.  Well, that, and their ridiculous bombers that had to DROP bombs.  In space.  Can someone at Disney please explain to me what happened to the perfectly fine concept of PROTON TORPEDOS???  Gahhhh *nerd rage*

[Chronocidal]

7 minutes ago, ZorClone said:

But... that movie needed an ending that didn't leave both the audience AND the characters having no on-screen idea of what to do next.  That's the decision that bugs me the most.  Well, that, and their ridiculous bombers that had to DROP bombs.  In space.  Can someone at Disney please explain to me what happened to the perfectly fine concept of PROTON TORPEDOS???  Gahhhh *nerd rage*

I'm still baffled that no one in the entire First Order had the sense to shoot the evacuation cruiser, instead of the empty Resistance base.  The entire movie was tactically a parade of people with their pants on their heads, running into walls.

The ending... honestly, it just feels like a complete reset to ground zero, all the way back to ANH, and wiping out all the progress since 1977.  There are good and bad things about that, but it really doesn't have my hopes up for Episode IX.

[Dynaman]

40 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I'm still baffled that no one in the entire First Order had the sense to shoot the evacuation cruiser, instead of the empty Resistance base.  The entire movie was tactically a parade of people with their pants on their heads, running into walls.

Keystone Jedi!  I'd pay to see that (why not, I paid to see Episodes 1,2,3,6,7, and 8).

[Focslain]

21 hours ago, ZorClone said:

But... that movie needed an ending that didn't leave both the audience AND the characters having no on-screen idea of what to do next.  That's the decision that bugs me the most.  Well, that, and their ridiculous bombers that had to DROP bombs.  In space.  Can someone at Disney please explain to me what happened to the perfectly fine concept of PROTON TORPEDOS???  Gahhhh *nerd rage*

IKR?

Holy Hera those bombers ticked me off so much I nearly walked out of the theater. Seriously, what happened to the B-Wing? It was designed for the purpose of taking out capital ships.

[sketchley]

Those bombers were designed around one thing - the sequence where she drops the switch and falls to go get it.

Makes one wonder why they couldn't have just made the fuselage bigger, and incorporated the bomb bay inside the fuselage?

 

Before I go any further nitpicking, it's as good a time as any to remind myself: the battle scenes in SW are based around WWII stuff (footage, tactics, etc.).

[Chronocidal]

On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:24 PM, sketchley said:

Those bombers were designed around one thing - the sequence where she drops the switch and falls to go get it.

Makes one wonder why they couldn't have just made the fuselage bigger, and incorporated the bomb bay inside the fuselage?

 

Before I go any further nitpicking, it's as good a time as any to remind myself: the battle scenes in SW are based around WWII stuff (footage, tactics, etc.).

See, my issue with the bombers isn't that they're impractical exactly, so much as they're just ducking fugly.  The logic behind the design isn't worth even trying to wrap your head around on any level.

I can't give them the "WWII footage" excuse for this one though.  The OT worked because you were dealing with turrets and fighters, which actually becomes more interesting in space, because there is no defined up or down. 

Unfortunately, that same fact made the entire bombing sequence entirely impossible to even comprehend.  Despite blowing up the target, that mission itself was a failure on every level, tactically, formationally, and logically.  The entire lineup for the bombing run was like a squad of men running shoulder-to-shoulder, carrying backpacks full of nitroglycerine through a firefight, and hoping one of them made it through to actually reach the target.

[sketchley]

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

See, my issue with the bombers isn't that they're impractical exactly, so much as they're just ducking fugly.  The logic behind the design isn't worth even trying to wrap your head around on any level.

I can't give them the "WWII footage" excuse for this one though.  The OT worked because you were dealing with turrets and fighters, which actually becomes more interesting in space, because there is no defined up or down. 

Unfortunately, that same fact made the entire bombing sequence entirely impossible to even comprehend.  Despite blowing up the target, that mission itself was a failure on every level, tactically, formationally, and logically.  The entire lineup for the bombing run was like a squad of men running shoulder-to-shoulder, carrying backpacks full of nitroglycerine through a firefight, and hoping one of them made it through to actually reach the target.

I'm not disagreeing with you.  I'm just pointing out the logic behind the creation of the design, not how logical the design is.

Those bombers are, for me, the stupidest thing in that movie.  But, it still gives that movie a pass in my book, because they don't have the physics breaking things like they had in SW7 (maybe that should be the physics breaking stuff is far smaller, and less obvious in SW8 ).

[Knight26]

The bombing scene was so offensive IMHO that I nearly walked out of the theater.  Even from a story perspective it was terrible.

[Knight26]

I have yet to buy the movie on BluRay, for some reason I just can't bring myself to do so, but I did dig up this write up I did on small fixes that could have helped the movie, because, you know, I like to fix broken things.
 

The Last Jedi Fixes

There is nothing quite like a good Shrimp burrito, when all the ingredients are there in just the right proportions and combinations it is a flavor explosion that cannot be beat.  But, when the cook doesn’t prepare it right, using days old fillings, or the tortilla that’s been sitting just a little too long you get just a taste of the greatness, but not the whole experience.  That was the taste left in my mouth by The Last Jedi.

I’m not saying it is a bad movie, at it’s core it was good with great potential, but it was mixed with stale ingredients, the wrong spices and wrapped up with tired cliches.  The scenes involving the Jedi were great, though sometimes a bit odd, but those were the core of the story that kept it from being terrible, though even they could have been better.  It could have been saved though, one more story revision and it could have been near perfect.  Here’s how I would saved it.

The biggest issue with the movie is one of timing.  The movie takes place too soon after the last and over too short a period of time.  It is a common misconception that in Empire, Luke was only on Dagobah for a few days, however it is established in canon that he was there for months as the Millenium Falcon trudged its way up to light speed and back down again on its much slower accelerating reserve hyperdrive.  The movie just does not make that clear, something a single line of dialogue could have fixed:  “We’re almost out of supplies too Lando, that reserve hyperdrive takes weeks to get you into hyperspace.”

The problems with the timing are massive.  The last movie ended with the Galaxy in utter chaos, the Republic capital has been destroyed, billions dead and its fleet scattered, this is bad for our heroes.  The First Order isn’t much better off, their capital has been blown away as well, but as a smaller overall force, they would be able to rally faster.  So give them a few months, 3-6.  The Republic will still be in disarray, and skip the evacuation of Resistance base, instead start with the pursuit.

The pursuit is 3 months on, the Resistance is haggard, down to just a few ships.  They have been unable to call for aid, unable to resupply, refuel, rearm, rest, think the episode 33 from the NuBSG.  Pilots and crews are all exhausted and the First Order is able to bring in its ships from throughout the galaxy to pursue them, each one coming with fresh crews as they track the Resistance through some unknown means.

In a desperate gambit, Poe leads a bomber force against a First Ordere dreadnaught, but not the stupid B-17s in space we got in the movie. Instead we get the new gen B-Wing (or its replacement) making torpedo runs with one final bomber, piloted by a good friend (or lover) of Poe making a suicide run into the soft spot of the ship.  But the bomber force is still devastated, giving Leia her excuse to demote Poe.

Meanwhile Rey has her meeting with Luke, he still tosses the lightsaber and refuses to train her.  Cut to a montage of her waiting outside his hut for days on end before he finally opens the door to start “Training” her.  This plays homage to the old Kurosawa Samurai movies that also inspired Lucas.  Much of what happens from here on can remain relatively untouched, but maybe show a bit more training actually happening.

This takes us back to the Fleet battle.  Leia has been injured and the Admiral (in a proper military uniform) has taken over.  She reveals their plan (you know, respecting the intelligence of her troops instead of keeping them in the dark) that they are heading towards an old, disused base on the rim with a transmitter that can reach the remains of their allies and the scattered republic forces.  But, they only have so long they can wait to get there due to their dwindling supplies.  They need to lose their First Order pursuers and have only a few days to do so before they either run out of fuel or take their chances.  So, she order Poe and the newly revived Finn to find a way through the shields of the First Order flagship to destroy the tracker, sending them off on their sidequest.

Boom, we just deleted the second biggest issue with the movie, the Rose and Mutiny storylines.  Instead we get Poe and Finn off doing their buddy cop thing from Episode 7 more, developing and maybe rocking that friendship some more, no forced love story, no criminally bad fan service.

Now let me explain that Fan Service.  Rose is the worst kind of fan service, she is a fan replacement, a fan of the film in the film.  Her hero worship of Finn makes no sense in the timeframe of the movie as it stands, Finn would be little known at this point, especially amongst the lower level crew.  At most, they would have heard about the First Order defector who helped destroy Starkiller base, but not much else in a day or two.

You could also cut most of the slave/animal abuse angle.  Star Wars has always been for kids, yes.  But, the first two movies did so with minimal pandering, The Last Jedi pandered to the kid audience hard in those scenes, and it didn’t need to do so.

The character of DJ, a wasted performance, did not need to happen or turn traitor.  He could have been a legit ally, but what would have been better is this:  Have it be Captain Fasma instead.  We’ve never seen her face before this, so, while the audience might be in on her being coming betrayal, the characters would not.  Or have it be that he was working for her the whole time, and it was all a trap or setup to wear the Resistance fleet down, capturing Finn is just the icing on the cake.

The rest of the movie can play out largely the way it did, the hyperspace ram (most awesome scene in the movie) can still happen as a last ditch effort to get the Resistance planetside when the other plan fails, but keep the Admiral alive, an astromech could have piloted the ship at that point.  Rey can still show up when she does, the scenes with Snoke could be expanded, but would remain largely intact, as well as the fight between projected Luke and Kylo Ren.  Even have there be minimal response to their call, but add one last thing, a rescue by the shattered republic.

Instead of only a few dozen people making it aboard the falcon, have it be a hundred or so crammed into a handful or dropships getting cover by a squadron of advanced X-Wings.  This gives us a bit more hope for the future, and maybe even a cameo by the real greatest pilot in Star Wars, Wedge Antilles, and even Lando.  The movie could even close on the slave kid using the force, a clear sign that Jedi still exist and are being born.

Overall I think that covers the biggest story issues with the movie.  Does it address all the fan complaints, no, but it doesn’t need to.  The identity of Rey’s parents was fine, they didn’t need to be connected to the rest of the movies because it shows that anyone can be a Jedi and opens up the possibility for a huge number of Jedi in the future.  Snoke being a bit of a glass cannon was fine, it showed that Kylo Ren was a real force to be reckoned with that he could fool his master in such a way.

As it stands, Episode 9 will have a very weak base to stand on after these last two films.  It has a lot of issues to address, the biggest of which is real life death of Carrie Fisher, something this movie should have fixed in reshoots.  I do not feel that the franchise stands on solid ground at the moment and with Abrams coming back to helm Episode 9, I do not have much hope.  Rogue One left me on a Star Wars high, Ep8, has dropped me back down, but I didn’t have my hopes high to begin with.

 

[ZorClone]

25 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The pursuit is 3 months on, the Resistance is haggard, down to just a few ships.  They have been unable to call for aid, unable to resupply, refuel, rearm, rest, think the episode 33 from the NuBSG.  Pilots and crews are all exhausted and the First Order is able to bring in its ships from throughout the galaxy to pursue them, each one coming with fresh crews as they track the Resistance through some unknown means.

In a desperate gambit, Poe leads a bomber force against a First Ordere dreadnaught, but not the stupid B-17s in space we got in the movie. Instead we get the new gen B-Wing (or its replacement) making torpedo runs with one final bomber, piloted by a good friend (or lover) of Poe making a suicide run into the soft spot of the ship.  But the bomber force is still devastated, giving Leia her excuse to demote Poe.

Couldn't agree more.  I would also offer the alternative of getting rid of the pursuit plot altogether and turning this into a battle for Helms Deep act.  Screw the fuel, hyperspace directly to the planet and land and get inside behind the door and wait for the siege--to be relieved by forces heeding the distress call, maybe led by Luke and Rey?

And yes, for the love of canon... those stupid bombers should have been firing proton torpedos like every other Alliance bomber in the history of SW.  I guess their inspiration for these came from those TIE bombers that were "dropping" bombs on the asteroids in EST?  Still, dumb.

26 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

This takes us back to the Fleet battle.  Leia has been injured and the Admiral (in a proper military uniform) has taken over.  She reveals their plan (you know, respecting the intelligence of her troops instead of keeping them in the dark) that they are heading towards an old, disused base on the rim with a transmitter that can reach the remains of their allies and the scattered republic forces.  But, they only have so long they can wait to get there due to their dwindling supplies.  They need to lose their First Order pursuers and have only a few days to do so before they either run out of fuel or take their chances.  So, she order Poe and the newly revived Finn to find a way through the shields of the First Order flagship to destroy the tracker, sending them off on their sidequest.

Agree with this too, although I had a slightly different take in mind if they wanted to keep Rose around--being a technical character, she easily could have been written in as the "codebreaker" they needed.  Or, you know, maybe use the bloody comlink they demonstrated in the movie (Poe talking to Finn) and call Rey back who has already demonstrated an aptitude for breaking into First Order facilities and going around unnoticed...

 

27 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

an astromech could have piloted the ship at that point.

YEP!! Would have been a great way to kill off 3PO, lol.

29 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Instead of only a few dozen people making it aboard the falcon, have it be a hundred or so crammed into a handful or dropships getting cover by a squadron of advanced X-Wings.  This gives us a bit more hope for the future

Agree here too.  This movie desperately needed to set the stage for at least the characters to have some momentum into the next story and give the audience at least a glimmer of what could come next.  Right now, no one knows which creates little desire to hope for much.

[Kanedas Bike]

Didn't hate, or maybe dislike, in the same way a lot of people did. I readily admit it had a lot of flaws but I can't lie, once you get past the shrimp burrito comparison () @Knight26actually has a pretty good movie.

Oh, remove the space manatee milking scene. Ugh. That ranks up there with the worst of the worst Star Wars moments.

-b.

[Scyla]

I like the idea of Phasma as the hacker. In a universe with helmets and voice changers she could able to disguise herself as another species/gender/something else without Finn noticing it is her. Maybe a scene where the audience gets a hint that something is wrong with the hacker which Finn doesn't pick-up would have been great. 

The question remains is why  Phasma would be disguising herself as a hacker to lure the Resistance in... maybe she was demoted, maybe because of her ties to Finn?

@Knight26 your post made it clear to me, what is so wrong with the movie: the time line and the First Order. 

The movies (7 and 8 ) totally fail to make the First Order a threat. Kylo Ren, Hux, Snoke and the First Order always come across as Galactic Empire fanbois of the worst kind rather than military geniuses. To me the feel like cosplayers dressed  in make-believe Empire uniforms that somehow got their hands on the best military force in the universe but without any context  or framing of what to do with it or how to behave. 

Kylo Rens anger issues are played for laughs and Phasma doesn't behave like a high raking military when she gives away the codes for the Starkiller base without any resistance. General Hux gets distracted by Poes prank call so that  they loose their dreadnought through sheer incompetency. They drew out a swift kill of the reminding Resistance into a (months/weeks) long chase.  Probably because they read a comic on how a military force should behave.

At the end of episode 7 the First Order looses their most powerful weapon and base of operations to a guerrilla force that is almost as inept as they are.  Yet we, the audience, need to accept that this band of imbeciles managed to take over the whole galaxy between two movies (at least that is how I interpret the title scroll of The last Jedi). In a time spann that feels like it took a single day. 

That it is not clearly stated how long anything takes in the movie is problematic in my opinion because it stretches my suspension of disbelieve. What time has passed between the movies? How long does the pursuit take? How many days does Rey spend with Luke?  How long took it to find the hacker? To me it felt like these events are happening in real time during the movie with only mere hours between between episode 7 and 8. This dissonance of how long it feels and how long it should have taken is really jaring to me.

One could say that The Empire Strikes Back has some of the same issues with how much time is passing. However the rest of the movie is so compelling that it never drew any attention from me while watching the movie. In addition the Empire was the established power that ruled over the galaxy for a long time before the events of A New Hope. So while the destruction of the first Death Star was a major setback for the Empire a swift and devastating retaliation attack on Hoth was fairly believable with all the Star Destroyers they had. 

The whole deal with the First Order feels like a clumsy attempt to bring back the Empire because the screenwriters don't know what to do with the Star Wars universe besides Rebells vs. Empire and they where in a hurry to establish status quo. Sure you can say that there is a vast amount of additional material like books and comics that explain why the First Orders is so powerful and why they where able to take over the galaxy so quickly. However that is lazy/weak writing that I don't excuse for the Bayverse Transformers so I certainly don't give Star Wars a pass on that. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Scyla

[Dynaman]

> They drew out a swift kill of the reminding Resistance into a (months/weeks) long chase.

And the fact the Empire (oops, first order) could jump with part of their fleet to box in the Rebels (oops again, Resistance) is not even thought up.

[Axelay]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:13 PM, Chronocidal said:

I'm still baffled that no one in the entire First Order had the sense to shoot the evacuation cruiser, instead of the empty Resistance base.  The entire movie was tactically a parade of people with their pants on their heads, running into walls.

This is my very favorite statement in this entire thread.

[Knight26]

The First Order has been heavily mishandled.  You are right, they are imperial fanboys with no real military acumen. And once again, they are space nazis.  I would have much preferred if they were modernized into more of a terrorist group that somehow has unlimited funding.  The resistance would then be more akin to the Republic's Special Forces division, somewhat rogue and off books, but they get the job done.

I have no idea what audience these movies are written for anymore.  It clearly isn't the old fans, and they are turning away any new, potential, fans.  Even my kids, once the initial euphoria of seeing space battles wears off, are pointing out serious issues with the new trilogy.  They do not do that with the OT, R1, or even the PT (ok a little with the PT), but they are doing it on their own.

As I've said before, I don't know a good way to save the franchise at this point.  I hope that Solo will be good, and the latest trailer helped with that, but I have little faith in JJA to save Ep9 if he uses his typical writing team.  For all it's failings Ep7 at least left open a sea of possibilities for where to take the franchise.  Ep8 left us with a First Order that has supreme power in the hands of petulant children, a shatter Republic unwilling to come to anyone's aid, and a rebel force of a dozen or so people.  To wrap that all up in one movie will be, difficult at best.

Also, let's talk Canto Bite.  The movie establishes that it takes place the same day as Ep7 ends, maybe the next day.  Are you seriously going to tell me that inside of a week of the Republic capital getting obliterated that the rich and powerful would still be partying it up?  Hell no, they'd be bunkering down, consolidating their wealth and watching to see who becomes the new galactic superpower.  There is no longer a central government or bank, the whole galaxy would be in utter chaos.  Again, the timing issue.

[Knight26]

18 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Didn't hate, or maybe dislike, in the same way a lot of people did. I readily admit it had a lot of flaws but I can't lie, once you get past the shrimp burrito comparison () @Knight26actually has a pretty good movie.

Oh, remove the space manatee milking scene. Ugh. That ranks up there with the worst of the worst Star Wars moments.

-b.

Actually that part didn't bug me, it harkens back to the Samurai movies, of the old master trying to scare away the prospective student, sometime by doing disgusting things.  I think with all the other over the top "humor" and stuff though it was just the cherry on top that pushed people over the edge.

[jvmacross]

2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Also, let's talk Canto Bite.  The movie establishes that it takes place the same day as Ep7 ends, maybe the next day.  Are you seriously going to tell me that inside of a week of the Republic capital getting obliterated that the rich and powerful would still be partying it up?  Hell no, they'd be bunkering down, consolidating their wealth and watching to see who becomes the new galactic superpower.  There is no longer a central government or bank, the whole galaxy would be in utter chaos.  Again, the timing issue.

Dunno.....wasn't that the whole the point of that scene?  That those partying on that planet were doing so because of their profits from selling weapons to the First Order and the Republic?  Sure the Republic is no more, for now, but that just means the "New Rebellion" will need weapons, etc for what Luke Skywalker promises is the "new" war that has just begun...

.....30 years from now (probably way less) the franchise will need to get "rebooted" again.......Star Wars seems to be creatively stuck in a loop.......All Disney really needs for this franchise is for it to stay in the public eye to keep selling stuff and keep people coming back to the Disney parks and movie theatres....which is not so bad I suppose....it has so far proven to be a money-train for Lucas/Disney...

Let's face it...the whole Star Wars phenomenon will never be repeated in quite the same epic manner that the current one has played out.....there is no way that Disney will sit around for 40+ years waiting for the actors playing Rey, Finn, and Poe to age naturally to reprise their roles as older versions.....they will be digitally aged at some point.....unless Star Wars breaks out of this current loop and truly "kills" everything introduced in 7-9....either way it will need to get rebooted again at some point to introduce "a new generation" of heroes and villians.....

The only question is how long will Disney get away with following this playbook?  I am guessing forever....

It was fun being on the first ride, I may or may not ride it again once it gets to the last stop (Ep 9).....guess that will depend if my own "next generation" care to board the refurbished versions or not....or if there is nothing else better or more original to watch in the coming years....which lately seems to be quite possible...

 

[sh9000]

 

[Black Valkyrie]

 

 

[Dobber]

Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions on what could’ve been done. What I thought would’ve been cool and slightly different would have been a “reverse” to the forming of the rebellion/Republic with lawlessness and injustice being far too prevalent in the New Republic. Things like Piracy  are rampant and government bureaucracy limit and/or prevent anything from being done. When the Imperial Remnant now called The First Order approach the New Republic senate and demonstrate how their “FIRM” approach to governing and justice....(maybe showing how the squash a vicious pirate ring or eliminate some form of organized crime on a planet)....starts to sway some systems to want to join them. Make our heroes have to prove there is more to the FO than what they are showing, that they are hiding something. Mix in some aspects of trying to re-establish the Jedi Order and maybe the FO trying to get their hands on Jedi artifacts and you have a pretty good story outline I think. A little different but with familiar aspects that could make everyone happy. It could even give the audience something to think about and possibly even side with the FO when you see what is being allowed to happen in the overly bureaucratic New Republic. 

I agree with most of the complaints against Ep 8. It is the only SW movie I don’t own and don’t plan it either. There is definitely things to like about it, but SO much to not like that I just can’t get past it. The things mentioned above being some of the most obvious.

Chris

[seti88]

Enjoy!

 

[electric indigo]

14 hours ago, Dobber said:

Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions on what could’ve been done. What I thought would’ve been cool and slightly different would have been a “reverse” to the forming of the rebellion/Republic with lawlessness and injustice being far too prevalent in the New Republic. Things like Piracy  are rampant and government bureaucracy limit and/or prevent anything from being done. When the Imperial Remnant now called The First Order approach the New Republic senate and demonstrate how their “FIRM” approach to governing and justice....(maybe showing how the squash a vicious pirate ring or eliminate some form of organized crime on a planet)....starts to sway some systems to want to join them. Make our heroes have to prove there is more to the FO than what they are showing, that they are hiding something. Mix in some aspects of trying to re-establish the Jedi Order and maybe the FO trying to get their hands on Jedi artifacts and you have a pretty good story outline I think. A little different but with familiar aspects that could make everyone happy. It could even give the audience something to think about and possibly even side with the FO when you see what is being allowed to happen in the overly bureaucratic New Republic. 

That sounds good, but it would be mostly repeating the Prequels.

[ZorClone]

Like Kylo said, tear it all down.  Start from scratch.

[peter]

[jvmacross]

On 4/25/2018 at 3:28 PM, ZorClone said:

Like Kylo said, tear it all down.  Start from scratch.

Then click repeat...

[Chronocidal]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:28 PM, ZorClone said:

Like Kylo said, tear it all down.  Start from scratch.

Honestly.. they kind of did.  They did such a thorough job of wiping out the Resistance, it's like they only took two movies to wind up right back at where they were at the end of Episode III.

I almost wish they would just do another ~20 year timeskip.  Maybe by then the First Order will have had time to mature as a whole, and actually live up to the reputation they're supposed to have as bad guys. 

[kajnrig]

I'd post this in the TLJ thread, but this one seems more timely:

 

[kajnrig]

Hm... Better to post this in the TLJ thread, or here?

 

[tekering]

5 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Better to post this in the TLJ thread, or here?

The TLJ thread, obviously, since many of the clips come from The Last Jedi (spoilers!), and there's no reference to Solo whatsoever (nor is there any reference to The First Order in Solo).  It bugs me that so much of the commentary in this thread -- and Star Wars fandom in general -- is criticizing the relatively harmless Solo for the sins of The Last Jedi.

Having said that, however, I'm grateful that you posted that link regardless, since I was thus far unaware that intelligent, educated people posted video essays on YouTube.  Everything else I've seen posted in these threads have suggested the exact opposite, so it's damned refreshing to see a charming, eloquent fangirl with a moderate point of view express herself amidst all the raving, idiotic fanboys spewing vitriolic invective elsewhere.

[kajnrig]

2 hours ago, tekering said:

The TLJ thread, obviously, since many of the clips come from The Last Jedi (spoilers!), and there's no reference to Solo whatsoever (nor is there any reference to The First Order in Solo).  It bugs me that so much of the commentary in this thread -- and Star Wars fandom in general -- is criticizing the relatively harmless Solo for the sins of The Last Jedi.

Having said that, however, I'm grateful that you posted that link regardless, since I was thus far unaware that intelligent, educated people posted video essays on YouTube.  Everything else I've seen posted in these threads have suggested the exact opposite, so it's damned refreshing to see a charming, eloquent fangirl with a moderate point of view express herself amidst all the raving, idiotic fanboys spewing vitriolic invective elsewhere.

Yeah, with this being the more recent film and thus this thread having more of an audience, I figured more eyes would see it this way. It's related enough to TLJ... but anyway.

I forget when I first started watching Lindsay Ellis's videos, but she used to be part of Channel Awesome, the group that included the Nostalgia Critic (she played Nostalgia Chick). She went solo after some sort of fallout, I think, and her solo stuff is way better in comparison. She has a bomb three-part essay on The Hobbit as well which included her going to New Zealand and interviewing the actor who portrayed one of the dwarves.

[electric indigo]

I miss any references to the Roman Empire, and their display of power. This is where Mussolinin got a lot of ideas from, which then inspired Hitler, in terms of fascist aesthetics, not necessarily ideology. A lot of Eco's theses that are mentioned in the video go back to the military culture of the Romans.

Picking up this train of thought leads us to the question - what has the Empire ever done for us?