Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[anime52k8]

7 minutes ago, Axelay said:

See? The stupidity in the writing just KEEPS. ON. COMING. 

Just like this thread.

[slaginpit]

Blah Blah Blah the movie still sucks and it sold crap in China AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good!

[kajnrig]

Man, someone is super super salty about Star Wars.

[Kanedas Bike]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Man, someone is super super salty about Star Wars.

A lot of someones...

It's like a thread for scorned lovers..."I HATE you Star Wars, but I LOVE you" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding fanatics, feel free to keep bitching and moaning about everything.

My only real question/concern after Episode VIII is how they will handle Carrie Fisher's untimely passing for Episode IX.

-b.

[Hikuro]

I saw it again over the weekend, even ignoring the awful jokes that ruin beginning it wasn’t a horrible movie it was just dull. I came away with Luke’s training of Rey being similar VERY similar to Yoda and Luke in ESB.

[jenius]

What was the point of Rey's dark side moment in the cave?

[derex3592]

I could have done with a lot better Luke training Ray scene or 2. There was almost nothing of consequence. 

[kajnrig]

6 minutes ago, Hikuro said:

I saw it again over the weekend, even ignoring the awful jokes that ruin beginning it wasn’t a horrible movie it was just dull. I came away with Luke’s training of Rey being similar VERY similar to Yoda and Luke in ESB.

I reeaaalllly hated the comedy. It's bad enough because it's out of step with Star Wars, but it's also just so... same-y. There's too much Guardians of the Galaxy in it. It's the same criticism I have of Thor: Ragnarok and a bunch of other recent Marvel films.

2 minutes ago, jenius said:

What was the point of Rey's dark side moment in the cave?

I remember that scene being confusing at first, too, because she suddenly starts narrating it, but eventually it becomes apparent that the narration is her talking to Kylo Ren at a later time. The scene is clearly taking inspiration from ESB's equally-confusing "only what you take with you" sequence.

Rey goes to the island searching for her place in all this. She wants the Jedi to help her, the Sith, the Rebels, even Kylo Ren. When she asks the mirror who her parents are, she's not asking for JUST her parents; she wants some sort of sign that there is someone to support her. The mirror shows her instead her greatest fear - that she has no such support system; she is the only thing she can rely on.

...which is a partial truth, if you want to get philosophical about it. But it's also an exaggeration because that place is strong in the dark side of the Force. Of course it would only show her the bleakest truths about herself. So she's "seduced" by it, she believes that it's the truth, and she seeks out Kylo Ren. When he offers her companionship - "you're not alone" - she's in too compromised a mental state to deny it.

But I mean, that's a sympathetic and reaching interpretation of that scene. On its face, it's more than a bit obtuse. I was similarly confused by the similar ESB scene, but that one is a bit more blunt in its symbolism, and dare I say it it's more poetic.

32 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

I could have done with a lot better Luke training Ray scene or 2. There was almost nothing of consequence. 

Apparently there was a scene cut from the final edit of the movie where he teaches her the last of the three lessons.

[Chronocidal]

I've read the summary of what that last training scene involved, and while I can kind of agree with why it was cut, it would have helped the training overall to make more sense I think?  It mostly wound up with Luke looking even less like the old character than before, though the lesson involved wasn't necessarily bad.

I dunno.  I think the good/bad argument as a whole for this movie has gone nowhere, just because of how extreme the likes and dislikes are.  Certain parts are incredibly good, and others are just completely terrible.  I thought the Rey/Luke/Kylo portion worked pretty decently, and once they all got to Snoke's ship, it was mostly an exciting ride, but the path taken to get there had me screaming in disbelief that any cast of characters could collectively make so many dumb mistakes, and still be taken seriously in-universe, let alone by audiences.

I want to say that sort of averages out, but there's a catch to it.  You can sit in a room at 70 degrees, and wear short pants and a long sleeve shirt, and things kind of average out to keep you at a tolerable level of comfort.  This is more like sitting with your legs in an icebox, and your upper body in a space heater.  The temperatures might average out to a nice level, but no part of you is actually comfortable.  This feels kinda like that, just altogether unease about the entire thing.

It's over and done with, but it leaves me wondering just what on earth we're going to get in the next movie. 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Chronocidal

[Axelay]

11 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

It's over and done with, but it leaves me wondering just what on earth we're going to get in the next movie. 

 

It will be interesting to see what - if anything - JJ decides to do to try to undo or walk back parts of the writing. I do not envy his position. Nevertheless, people will go see it.

[slaginpit]

16 hours ago, jenius said:

What was the point of Rey's dark side moment in the cave?

There wasnt.

• What was the point of luke having a Find Me app on his android device if he just wanted to be left alone to die. Seems oxymoronish to me
• What was the point of luke teaching her to breath and then he walks away cause he was scared when she lifted pebbles and cracked some stone.Wasnt the whole point to do that crap.
• What was the point of him tossing the lightsaber if he entrusted it to someone to care over. Or even was it.
• What was the point of going to an island jedi artifact if he believed the jedi needed to end.Why bother breathing ....lol
• What was the point of telling Mary Sue to stay and warn her when she bested one of the most unwavering jedi's only to say nah not interested after you yelled at her going to the ooooooooh scary hall of mirrors cave. Sounds like an on set of alzheimers and schizophrenia
• What was the point of the care takers if Yoda was just going to burn the sacred scripts to a crisp during his episodes of pyromania. What was the point of yoda at all.Why not yoda train the next mary sue super sayan jedi
• what was the point of that 60 foot fishing pole and then hanging on the edge of a cliff with zero leverage to fish from where any torsion would set of a bad fal

Yes what was the point of it all if only cause you know the Force is Feminism :\

 

 

16 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

A lot of someones...

It's like a thread for scorned lovers..."I HATE you Star Wars, but I LOVE you" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding fanatics, feel free to keep bitching and moaning about everything.

My only real question/concern after Episode VIII is how they will handle Carrie Fisher's untimely passing for Episode IX.

-b.

Fanatics eh. Hmmm. A fanatic: filled with or expressing excessive zeal. Nope. No excessive zeal from me. I think you mixed that up with people lapping up a steaming pile of beep with anything Star Wars written over it. I just wanted to see a movie that makes sense. There is a such a lack of it and because its advertised to a franchise which then abandons it makes people with ability to recognize quality scratch their heads.

 

Here is how they will handle  former carrie the druggie. I am going to use Melvin for this one when describing Kathy Kennedy cause its her the force is feminism story now. 

"How do you write women so well? I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

carrie will open up to flying to the next moon base mary poppins style,as she has designed her own lightsaber. She dawns her own jedi robes studded with fox diamond fur  and her eyes flash with blue. She walks up to mary sue "we need to protect the animals" while poe and finn are cackling like little girls at a rock concert.

Holdo appears weilding a hammer which she said she spent some time in another dimension where she was able to build a hammer from a dying star. No one seems to mind how she came back from the dead, cause hey that can happen in a galaxy far far away.

Mary Sue asks finn to bring her lightsaber as finn is now her carry on luggage transfer utility as he is about to hand her the lightsaber he trips over a rock and stabs himself in the face and Poe screams nooooooooooooo and runs over to slap a big wet kiss where his face used to be, some asian woman we find out later is a clone of rose because rose died and in order to save her they cloned several versions of her to test it for carrie. Soon after Optimus prime shows up and says leia are you ready to do battle against darth crybaby ren? She says life is the right of all sentient beings and they both fly off into space to do battle with megatron err I mean darth whinny. 

 

Then end.

 

 

 

 

[Gerli]

16 hours ago, jenius said:

What was the point of Rey's dark side moment in the cave?

Show her underwater... I think (?)

Blah Blah Blah the movie still sucks and it sold crap in China AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good!

 

So that was the reason behind Rose the Mechanic...

Edited January 10, 2018 by Gerli

[Mommar]

3 hours ago, Gerli said:

Show her underwater... I think (?)

 

So that was the reason behind Rose the Mechanic...

The actress is Vietnamese though.

[danth]

3 hours ago, slaginpit said:

Mary Sue...the Force is Feminism :\

There is a lot of alt-right butt hurt about the new Star Wars movies daring to have a female Jedi (as if Anakin and Luke weren't Mary Sues), or strong women with blue hair, or whatever they're mad about.

News Flash: the Star Wars movies were never for people like you.

The original Star Wars movies were about:

• Killing fascists (who were modeled after Nazis)
• A badass woman who took no crap and lead the Rebellion
• A black guy blowing up the final Death Star

Face it: the George Lucas was a big ol' "SJW".

[jenius]

Yeah, I'm still not understanding the problems with women that keep being brought up. I do think Rey in the cave was a bit of a waste, seems like more should have come from it? Is it just supposed to tell her she's on her own and to stop seeking out her parents? Why do people complain that she can swim? She's in the water for like a split second.

Edited January 10, 2018 by jenius

[captain america]

22 hours ago, jenius said:

What was the point of Rey's dark side moment in the cave?

Every initiate must confront their dark side as part of the process, that part was easy enough to understand. Quite telling that her experience wasn't nearly as troubling as Luke's.

[Chronocidal]

The thing that cracks me up about the entire SJW angle on this?  Do you really want to be holding up all these stupendously incompetent characters as some kind of example to be praised? 

Seriously.  I don't want to get into the politics of it, but just look at what the movie throws at you.  All those characters that people hold up as examples of "diversity" and "gender equality"... what did they actually accomplish?

Finn and Rose?  Good job, your sloppy failure to execute your original goal wound up getting nearly the entire Resistance vaporized in space.

Holdo?  Enforcing a chain of command involves delegating responsibility, and keeping your key players informed.  I can't fully blame her for that mess, but it certainly could have been handled better.

The only really competent and effective characters in the entire movie were Luke, Leia, and Rey.  Chewie gets an honorable mention for his cameo piloting the Falcon.  Oh, and those two cannon fodder FO pilots who went ahead and fired on the bridge when Kylo chickened out. If the FO had more of those, the chase sequence would have ended really quickly.

If anything, the SJW crowd should be ripping this movie to shreds for making the "diverse" characters out to be shining examples of utter failure.

[sketchley]

4 hours ago, jenius said:

Yeah, I'm still not understanding the problems with women that keep being brought up. I do think Rey in the cave was a bit of a waste, seems like more should have come from it? Is it just supposed to tell her she's on her own and to stop seeking out her parents? Why do people complain that she can swim? She's in the water for like a split second.

Let's also not forget that she comes from a desert planet, where water is for, like, drinking.

[Gerli]

7 hours ago, Mommar said:

The actress is Vietnamese though.

Oops... 

[electric indigo]

12 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

If anything, the SJW crowd should be ripping this movie to shreds for making the "diverse" characters out to be shining examples of utter failure.

You could argue that an equal level of incompetence was shown on the "non-diverse" characters as well...

What bothers me more is how the diverse characters are still molded from racial stereotypes.

[Gerli]

Bah... I'm glad they put Poe in place... that guy is an Isamu Dyson of the Star Wars universe...

[Scyla]

So after thinking a lot about The Last Jedi I came to the conclusion that I'm actually pretty o.k. with was where the characterization of Luke, the Snoke, Reys heritage etc. I also don't think that it is a worse movie than the prequels because the dialog and acting is solid to good, it is well shot and all in all a well produced movie. 

That said I still think it is a very flawed movie if not a bad one because it managed to pile up so many flaws. I tried to cluster it in three different portions why I think the movie is bad (there I said it): The film inspected in isolation, the film as the middle piece of a trilogy and the film as a successor for The Force Awakens (spoilers just in case)

In every category the movie has massive problems and in this post I will try to summarize my feelings on the first one:

Now as a movie itself it managed to be too short and too long at the same time. To short because it is overcrowded with characters that need development in order to explain their motivations and drive the story forward due to the conclusions they came to through that development:

• Kylo needs development because he needs to figure out what he wants to be, especially after he killed his dad. 
• Rey needs development to understand the universe she is in and what her role in it is
• Finn needs to realize if he wants to fight the past or run away
• Poe needs to grow into the role as a leader
• Luke needs to come to therms with his frakk-ups in the past

The movie tries to to all this but because almost all the characters are at different places it jumps from scene to scene without the chance to let the characters breath. Every time a character moment happens we get a cut and jump to the other end of the universe to observe something else happening.

To make things worse the movie is cluttered with scenes that lead to nowhere and comedy scenes that don't work having even less time for character development. Yes we all talked about the Canto Bight scene and Progs but why are all the scenes with the keepers on island there?

I wanted to see Kylo Ren struggle with the murder of his father and coming to a conclusion what it means to do away with the old ways but the movie is so crowded that his character arc is condensed to: the king is dead long live the king; I just continue with Snokes evil ways.

 Same goes for Rey. Her resolve needs to be shattered after her failed mission to convert Kylo to the Light Side. But no she is continuing on to be the hero character because the trilogy needs a good guy.

There is a very interesting story here to be told but the writer and director can't pull it off. Either because he is too inept in his profession or some external forces prevented him for doing it.

The movie is too long because he has a second third act. I feel like after the face-off on Snokes flagship the movie could have ended but it goes on and on after that. It needed to have another big action scene that leads to nowhere for some reasons. Not enough action for a big blockbuster maybe? The movie needed the time from that act and the Canto Bight ark to develop the characters better.

I think this is my main criticism of the movie but it is far from the only one. I realized writing this that I have much more on my mind that needs to be said but I don't want to put all of it in one post. It really is a flawed movie in my opinion.

Maybe this is the reason why everyone is nitpicking the movie to death. It has an interesting story to tell and interesting characters (like Luke and Kylo) but it doesn't tell a cohesive narrative. People don't have a chance to understand the motivations of the characters because the movie is too preoccupied with other stuff. Like selling Progs plushies to kids.

This is quite interesting because on the other hand the movie is very blunt with some messages like: Slavery bad, animal rights good, banksters are the real evil etc. Which is another sign that the writers of this movie are not able to pull it off. 

I'm not saying that a good movie needs to have this kind of stuff in it but to me one goal was clearly that they wanted to tell the story of the fallen hero that undid all his good deeds because he is a flawed character, the bad guy who is struggling with his chose path and doesn't know how to go on. The Mary Sue whose believes are shattered and her role in the story is not what she thought it would be.

Again here are three interesting motives to explore that could easily fit into three movies but are crammed into one with tons of other stuff added to it.

On the other hand maybe I'm too dumb to understand the movie at all. It could also be that the movie needs repeated watching.

In my initial reaction I said I don't know if I'm a Star Wars fan at all. From the 9 movies so far I only liked 3.5. Maybe Episode 9 can pull it off to fix that mess but I'm tired waiting for that. After TFA I said that the movie is laying the groundworks for some interesting stuff and I have the same reaction after TLJ. I'm just done waiting for the payoff that might never come.

That said it is hard to judge the movie in isolation and I don't know if I would had the same reactions after seeing The Empire Strikes Back because I'm too jung for that.  

[Chronocidal]

Taking off the nostalgia filter a bit, I'd say ESB had it's own problems, some of them very similar.  Some of the tactical nonsense did seem to come into play in its own way, but I also think moviegoers were much less critical then.  (As an aside, I actually mis-remembered one point I brought up earlier; I'd thought they specifically called out that the Rebel transports would be scattering after the evacuation from Hoth.  Turns out Leia's only instructions were to head directly to a pre-planned rendezvous point.  The scattering tactic is something that I think was mentioned later in the EU.)

Anyway, I'll spoiler my other thoughts to save anyone the wall-o-text.

I think the wackiest thing out of ESB was the entire situation where they grappled the Falcon to the back of the star destroyer's bridge.  Logically, no, that makes no sense that they were able to get away with it, because you have to question all the silly things that have to have aligned just right for it to work.  There had to be no windows anywhere that would be covered by the Falcon; there had to be no external windows where someone on the rest of the ship could have seen the Falcon; there had to be no other patrol craft in the area that could have spotted them; there had to be no rear mounted sensors in that area of the ship that would have detected something amiss... the list is pretty long.

I think the difference between that, and all the similar situations in TLJ, is that the bridge trick hangs on the "so crazy it just might work" hook, while TLJ was full of "no, stop, what is wrong with you, that's a terrible idea."  The Falcon hanging on the bridge was desperation, ingenuity, and Han being himself.  It had almost no chance of succeeding, and somehow, it did.

The entire casino mess?  That was basically the exact opposite.  Finn and Rose made mistake after mistake after mistake, and the entire fustercluck of a plotline got the majority of those escape transports wasted.  They ditched the ship on a public beach, without any regard for trying to get in and out without drawing attention to themselves.  They took the quick and easy solution when they got out, instead of hunting down the guy they were told was trustworthy.  They managed to blab the entirety of the Resistance's situation out loud to someone they couldn't trust, and it wound up ending in a flaming pile of failure.

They basically went in with only the barest outline of a plan, and took all the necessary shortcuts to ensure it had no chance of succeeding.

While ESB was a struggle for the Alliance to survive against the Empire's ruthless pursuit, TLJ was a Gilligan-level plot where, against all odds, a few Resistance characters manage to avoid being wiped out by the bad decisions of their own "heroes."

There's definitely a good story, and some great sequences buried in TLJ, it's just really hard to get past how badly the entire plot goes.  ESB was full of great tension where you really didn't know if the good guys would make it.  In contrast to that, TLJ would have gone a lot better for nearly everyone in the Resistance if a few main characters had all died in the opening battle.  That's not a good way to endear viewers to the characters who are supposed to be the heroes.

[Kanedas Bike]

6 hours ago, Scyla said:

So after thinking a lot about The Last Jedi I came to the conclusion that I'm actually pretty o.k. with was where the characterization of Luke, the Snoke, Reys heritage etc. I also don't think that it is a worse movie than the prequels because the dialog and acting is solid to good, it is well shot and all in all a well produced movie. 

That said I still think it is a very flawed movie if not a bad one because it managed to pile up so many flaws. I tried to cluster it in three different portions why I think the movie is bad (there I said it): The film inspected in isolation, the film as the middle piece of a trilogy and the film as a successor for The Force Awakens (spoilers just in case)

In every category the movie has massive problems and in this post I will try to summarize my feelings on the first one:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Now as a movie itself it managed to be too short and too long at the same time. To short because it is overcrowded with characters that need development in order to explain their motivations and drive the story forward due to the conclusions they came to through that development:

• Kylo needs development because he needs to figure out what he wants to be, especially after he killed his dad. 
• Rey needs development to understand the universe she is in and what her role in it is
• Finn needs to realize if he wants to fight the past or run away
• Poe needs to grow into the role as a leader
• Luke needs to come to therms with his frakk-ups in the past

The movie tries to to all this but because almost all the characters are at different places it jumps from scene to scene without the chance to let the characters breath. Every time a character moment happens we get a cut and jump to the other end of the universe to observe something else happening.

To make things worse the movie is cluttered with scenes that lead to nowhere and comedy scenes that don't work having even less time for character development. Yes we all talked about the Canto Bight scene and Progs but why are all the scenes with the keepers on island there?

I wanted to see Kylo Ren struggle with the murder of his father and coming to a conclusion what it means to do away with the old ways but the movie is so crowded that his character arc is condensed to: the king is dead long live the king; I just continue with Snokes evil ways.

 Same goes for Rey. Her resolve needs to be shattered after her failed mission to convert Kylo to the Light Side. But no she is continuing on to be the hero character because the trilogy needs a good guy.

There is a very interesting story here to be told but the writer and director can't pull it off. Either because he is too inept in his profession or some external forces prevented him for doing it.

The movie is too long because he has a second third act. I feel like after the face-off on Snokes flagship the movie could have ended but it goes on and on after that. It needed to have another big action scene that leads to nowhere for some reasons. Not enough action for a big blockbuster maybe? The movie needed the time from that act and the Canto Bight ark to develop the characters better.

I think this is my main criticism of the movie but it is far from the only one. I realized writing this that I have much more on my mind that needs to be said but I don't want to put all of it in one post. It really is a flawed movie in my opinion.

Maybe this is the reason why everyone is nitpicking the movie to death. It has an interesting story to tell and interesting characters (like Luke and Kylo) but it doesn't tell a cohesive narrative. People don't have a chance to understand the motivations of the characters because the movie is too preoccupied with other stuff. Like selling Progs plushies to kids.

This is quite interesting because on the other hand the movie is very blunt with some messages like: Slavery bad, animal rights good, banksters are the real evil etc. Which is another sign that the writers of this movie are not able to pull it off. 

I'm not saying that a good movie needs to have this kind of stuff in it but to me one goal was clearly that they wanted to tell the story of the fallen hero that undid all his good deeds because he is a flawed character, the bad guy who is struggling with his chose path and doesn't know how to go on. The Mary Sue whose believes are shattered and her role in the story is not what she thought it would be.

Again here are three interesting motives to explore that could easily fit into three movies but are crammed into one with tons of other stuff added to it.

On the other hand maybe I'm too dumb to understand the movie at all. It could also be that the movie needs repeated watching.

 

In my initial reaction I said I don't know if I'm a Star Wars fan at all. From the 9 movies so far I only liked 3.5. Maybe Episode 9 can pull it off to fix that mess but I'm tired waiting for that. After TFA I said that the movie is laying the groundworks for some interesting stuff and I have the same reaction after TLJ. I'm just done waiting for the payoff that might never come.

That said it is hard to judge the movie in isolation and I don't know if I would had the same reactions after seeing The Empire Strikes Back because I'm too jung for that.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Taking off the nostalgia filter a bit, I'd say ESB had it's own problems, some of them very similar.  Some of the tactical nonsense did seem to come into play in its own way, but I also think moviegoers were much less critical then.  (As an aside, I actually mis-remembered one point I brought up earlier; I'd thought they specifically called out that the Rebel transports would be scattering after the evacuation from Hoth.  Turns out Leia's only instructions were to head directly to a pre-planned rendezvous point.  The scattering tactic is something that I think was mentioned later in the EU.)

Anyway, I'll spoiler my other thoughts to save anyone the wall-o-text.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I think the wackiest thing out of ESB was the entire situation where they grappled the Falcon to the back of the star destroyer's bridge.  Logically, no, that makes no sense that they were able to get away with it, because you have to question all the silly things that have to have aligned just right for it to work.  There had to be no windows anywhere that would be covered by the Falcon; there had to be no external windows where someone on the rest of the ship could have seen the Falcon; there had to be no other patrol craft in the area that could have spotted them; there had to be no rear mounted sensors in that area of the ship that would have detected something amiss... the list is pretty long.

I think the difference between that, and all the similar situations in TLJ, is that the bridge trick hangs on the "so crazy it just might work" hook, while TLJ was full of "no, stop, what is wrong with you, that's a terrible idea."  The Falcon hanging on the bridge was desperation, ingenuity, and Han being himself.  It had almost no chance of succeeding, and somehow, it did.

The entire casino mess?  That was basically the exact opposite.  Finn and Rose made mistake after mistake after mistake, and the entire fustercluck of a plotline got the majority of those escape transports wasted.  They ditched the ship on a public beach, without any regard for trying to get in and out without drawing attention to themselves.  They took the quick and easy solution when they got out, instead of hunting down the guy they were told was trustworthy.  They managed to blab the entirety of the Resistance's situation out loud to someone they couldn't trust, and it wound up ending in a flaming pile of failure.

They basically went in with only the barest outline of a plan, and took all the necessary shortcuts to ensure it had no chance of succeeding.

While ESB was a struggle for the Alliance to survive against the Empire's ruthless pursuit, TLJ was a Gilligan-level plot where, against all odds, a few Resistance characters manage to avoid being wiped out by the bad decisions of their own "heroes."

There's definitely a good story, and some great sequences buried in TLJ, it's just really hard to get past how badly the entire plot goes.  ESB was full of great tension where you really didn't know if the good guys would make it.  In contrast to that, TLJ would have gone a lot better for nearly everyone in the Resistance if a few main characters had all died in the opening battle.  That's not a good way to endear viewers to the characters who are supposed to be the heroes.

 

Just wanted to quote these last two posts from Scyla and Chronocidal as examples of a few of the really well thought out posts that dissect this movie (which I think we all agree isn't perfect) in a thoughtful matter.

Honestly not trying to convince anyone to "like" The Last Jedi or not, we are all more than capable of forming our own opinions and whether or not we choose to defend those opinions is also a matter of choice.

What I can't stand is all of the overly negative nonsense, some of what's been posted has been outright ugly from an anti-this race-that sex-this whatever standpoint and to think this is re: a Star Wars film, not a real world biopic. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around the folks that can barely write a cohesive post about why they're upset - it's just all piss and vinegar over Star Wars, the Grandfather of all popcorn films. 

So major props to all of the folks capable of having an actual discussion, regardless of what side of like/don't like, you fall on.

PS - Rey is awesome, Kylo's story could be awesome, Luke's and Leia's arcs are polarizing, Finn and Rose are "meh", Phasma is the greatest "all of that for nothing" ever, Holdo had one of the most epic Star Wars deaths ever, Poe who could be an awesome hero/leader needs his teeth kicked in for what he did/didn't do, and the Porgs are still better than the Ewoks. 

-b.

[slaginpit]

13 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

 

Just wanted to quote these last two posts from Scyla and Chronocidal as examples of a few of the really well thought out posts that dissect this movie (which I think we all agree isn't perfect) in a thoughtful matter.

Honestly not trying to convince anyone to "like" The Last Jedi or not, we are all more than capable of forming our own opinions and whether or not we choose to defend those opinions is also a matter of choice.

What I can't stand is all of the overly negative nonsense, some of what's been posted has been outright ugly from an anti-this race-that sex-this whatever standpoint and to think this is re: a Star Wars film, not a real world biopic. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around the folks that can barely write a cohesive post about why they're upset - it's just all piss and vinegar over Star Wars, the Grandfather of all popcorn films. 

So major props to all of the folks capable of having an actual discussion, regardless of what side of like/don't like, you fall on.

PS - Rey is awesome, Kylo's story could be awesome, Luke's and Leia's arcs are polarizing, Finn and Rose are "meh", Phasma is the greatest "all of that for nothing" ever, Holdo had one of the most epic Star Wars deaths ever, Poe who could be an awesome hero/leader needs his teeth kicked in for what he did/didn't do, and the Porgs are still better than the Ewoks. 

-b.

Malarkey. The producer of this film has literally made it about gender. The vast majority of Youtubers and the list is growing is highlighting all the issues methodically. Then the hollywood media calls these people trollls and what not and its not made for them. Then those exclusionary comments are not addressed and tossed aside. Is Dave Cullen a redneck? I think he covered the issues fairly.  And then someone calls me alt right. LOL Hollywood has become so politicized they dont even hide it anymore. Outright calling people who do not share the extreme left point of view  rednecks like M.Streep calling people who watch MMA idiots. Wasnt it the new Star Trek captain whats his name calling everyone that didnt like the new show rednecks. Im not a redneck. But this movie is blatant.

I have broken down point by point every issue. Then looked at the subtle ques on this film. If you cant see it that is not my problem. But calling more than half the audience names isnt going to help or justify your points. If you liked it fine. I will question your ability to recognize quality tho.

Did I make this up? You know why this isnt popular in China. Cause like my Chinese wife, they like to see a strong Man. She could not stand Kylo or luke citing they are too whinny and cant man up. They HATE weak men. You cant sell this SJW stuff to a society where men must ahem MAN UP to get the job done. And dont get me wrong. I dont mind a strong fem fatale. I loved the Wonder Woman movie. I didnt mind atomic blonde even tho it was hard for me to swallow where a 250 plus pound man expert in combat beats down a 100 pound woman without a concussion. The one scene where he toss her around like a rag doll. Ludicrous  I love anime where female characters are strong ie Gurran Lagan. This is not the issue here. Its a hate on anything not aligned to the extreme left narrative.  This is where I am going to end my comments on this horrid horrid film

[jenius]

I just don't see how strong female characters ruin a film. Is it because Poe is the strong male lead and he spent the entire film being dressed down by women for his f ups? I assume this will all cause him to grow into a stronger male lead in the next film.

[Gerli]

2 hours ago, slaginpit said:

 

I don't know in English, but in Spanish "la fuerza" IS Female

[ArchieNov]

On 1/10/2018 at 9:27 AM, Chronocidal said:

It's over and done with, but it leaves me wondering just what on earth we're going to get in the next movie. 

 

I hope the next movie starts with Finn waking up and realizing that the entire TLJ movie was just a bad dream.

[Axelay]

12 minutes ago, ArchieNov said:

I hope the next movie starts with Finn waking up and realizing that the entire TLJ movie was just a bad dream.

You and me both. I truly don't care about sex or race in Star Wars. What I do care about is that the story makes sense within its own universe. The whole 6-hour chase thing is just unforgivable to me.

[Seto Kaiba]

34 minutes ago, ArchieNov said:

I hope the next movie starts with Finn waking up and realizing that the entire TLJ movie was just a bad dream.

Why not go for the gusto there and have the whole prequel trilogy, sequel trilogy, and expanded universe turn out to be a nightmare Luke had after one too many plates of Ewok tartere on Endor?  

I'm just disappointed we'll not be getting the big reveal that Leader Snoke is Jar-Jar Binks after cosmetic surgery.

(This is a joke.  Only a joke.)

Edited January 12, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[kajnrig]

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Why not go for the gusto there and have the whole prequel trilogy, sequel trilogy, and expanded universe turn out to be a nightmare Luke had after one too many plates of Ewok tartere on Endor?  

Ewok tartare sounds awful. I'm imagining it as just ground squirrel, with chunks of bone and other bits mixed in because they just threw the whole thing into the grinder, didn't bother butchering it properly...

[danth]

7 hours ago, slaginpit said:

Its a hate on anything not aligned to the extreme left narrative.

This might be the most ridiculous example of projection I've ever seen.

"They put women and ethnic people in movies, whaa! They must be extreme leftists who hate white men!"

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Ewok tartare sounds awful. I'm imagining it as just ground squirrel, with chunks of bone and other bits mixed in because they just threw the whole thing into the grinder, didn't bother butchering it properly...

Been peeking in the kitchen at Imperial Hunan, have we?  

Then again, the Ewoks are a stone age tribal culture... their shamans probably have some pretty good hallucinogenic plants to explain away the stuff post-RotJ.

"Hey Luke, now that the Emperor's dead we oughta go reestablish the Senate and restore democracy to the galaxy."
"Yeah but we gotta go into the Falcon for that and have you SEEN the dragons in the kitchen there?"

[Kanedas Bike]

15 hours ago, slaginpit said:

Malarkey. The producer of this film has literally made it about gender. The vast majority of Youtubers and the list is growing is highlighting all the issues methodically. Then the hollywood media calls these people trollls and what not and its not made for them. Then those exclusionary comments are not addressed and tossed aside. Is Dave Cullen a redneck? I think he covered the issues fairly.  And then someone calls me alt right. LOL Hollywood has become so politicized they dont even hide it anymore. Outright calling people who do not share the extreme left point of view  rednecks like M.Streep calling people who watch MMA idiots. Wasnt it the new Star Trek captain whats his name calling everyone that didnt like the new show rednecks. Im not a redneck. But this movie is blatant.

I have broken down point by point every issue. Then looked at the subtle ques on this film. If you cant see it that is not my problem. But calling more than half the audience names isnt going to help or justify your points. If you liked it fine. I will question your ability to recognize quality tho.

Did I make this up? You know why this isnt popular in China. Cause like my Chinese wife, they like to see a strong Man. She could not stand Kylo or luke citing they are too whinny and cant man up. They HATE weak men. You cant sell this SJW stuff to a society where men must ahem MAN UP to get the job done. And dont get me wrong. I dont mind a strong fem fatale. I loved the Wonder Woman movie. I didnt mind atomic blonde even tho it was hard for me to swallow where a 250 plus pound man expert in combat beats down a 100 pound woman without a concussion. The one scene where he toss her around like a rag doll. Ludicrous  I love anime where female characters are strong ie Gurran Lagan. This is not the issue here. Its a hate on anything not aligned to the extreme left narrative.  This is where I am going to end my comments on this horrid horrid film

*snip*

@ Slaginpit

Wut?

PS - re-read my post, I didn't call you or anyone else a name. I did earlier in this thread talk about butt-hurt (and I should apologize, it is a bit hypocritical to talk about a measured response and not fully uphold that standard) BUUUUUTTTTT (pun intended) you've again managed again to illustrate my point, that and your own fairly "narrow" view of the world. If nothing much else.

 

@ Everyone Else

I'm just still amazed that in full retrospect no one is picking apart Return of the Jedi - the Ewoks beat Imperial soldiers at the height of the Empire. Ewoks???? lol

It has to be because expectations for The Last Jedi were so sky high, that's the only logical reason people are so pissed off. If no one thought this would be or could be one of the best Star Wars movies ever made before they actually saw it then I think the fan-based criticism (since critics love TLJ) would be articulated in a much more measured, or metered, fashion.

It'd be like "I wasn't expecting much, and I didn't get much".

I think Rian was bold in some of his choices, but he obviously took one or four too many "risks" with the story and characters and it was too much, too abruptly from the Star Wars "norm".

-b.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Kanedas Bike
*spelling

[ArchieNov]

Personally, I don't see anyone saying the OT was perfect or flawless. Yes, I thought Ewoks beating Stormtroopers with sticks and stones was utterly ridiculous. I've been complaining about that since I saw it for the first time almost 30 years ago. It's one of the reasons I hate Ewoks.

What I and many people are complaining about is the lack of coherency or continuity in TLJ with the films that came before it. There were things that were already known or established in the prior films that contributed to the lore (regardless of how stupid it may be) which TLJ totally ignored or contradicted (and not in a good way, meaning it contradicted it in a manner that made less sense or became even more stupid). I don't need to elaborate on these things any more since there's enough on that already.

I'm very accepting of change in the SW universe, as long as the result makes more sense. For example, if the made Stormtroopers were made to be super accurate, no-nonsense soldiers in the next SW film, I'd be overjoyed. That's what I was expecting when I first saw them on the screen and how Obi-wan described them to Luke in ANH. I never liked how Stormtroopers have been depicted in the films as having almost zero accuracy and die to a single blaster shot or stone even though they wear armor.

Lastly, I don't see how pointing out the flaws in any of the prior SW films justifies any of the nonsense in TLJ, or makes TLJ seem like a better film.

Edited January 13, 2018 by ArchieNov