Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[captain america]

31 minutes ago, electric indigo said:

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I seem to remember Kylo shaking off drops of water after projecting to Rey's location.

 

A phenomenon we humans call perspiration. 

[derex3592]

Weeeeell.. ohh kaaay. Wow.. A LOT of strong feelings here and all over the world about this film. As a die hard devoted OT fan who grew up in the 80's, I went Wednesday evening with my wife. I left feeling like I was hit by a sledgehammer. I really didn't know WHAT to think about it honestly. I've read all the opinions here and a couple of online reviews from both sides. It seems like you either love it or hate it. The more I sat around and thought about it, the more I just didn't know what to think. Add to that,  I planned to see it with my best friend from childhood  who is also a huge fan of the OT today.  I didnt tell him that I had gone before. I wanted to judge his reaction and him to be able to form his own opinion. 

I will say this, I went in kind of dreading sitting through it again. But as time went on  I sat back and looked at it on another level this time and I must admit that I came out this time liking it a lot more. What Johnson did, as others here have stated, was throw away the normal formula and try something new. As Kylo Ren and others say throughout the film "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" With that in mind,  I understand where he wanted to take it. The film is not perfect by any means, I really believe it should have been edited down to about 2 hours and it could have been a lot tighter in the editing.  I know others will disagree but if you are on the fence about liking it or hating it, try a 2nd viewing, it helped me.  If you hate everything about it, then you will probably never change your mind about it. We'll see how it stands the test of time. I think Disney saw that people a lot of fans  were pissed about the "written by committee" of TFA (Im not one of them, I enjoyed it for what it was, it was a fun movie) and handed this off  to Johnson to write and direct, wanting something completely different. Well, like it or not, he definitely delivers that. 

As far as characters go, Kylo Ren and Poe were my favorites this time around, good development. I don't know why Finn was even in the movie, he needed a far better role. Phasma was again very disappointing s well. 

I definitely need more time to digest this one, and to be perfectly honest it will be very interesting to see where Abrams goes from here for 9.  

[kajnrig]

52 minutes ago, captain america said:

A phenomenon we humans call perspiration. 

It was pretty clearly implied to be rainwater. I chalk it up to Force shenanigans.

[Roy Focker]

After Rogue One and this movie I'm starting to like The Phantom Menace.

[Thom]

3 hours ago, azrael said:

Those questions were not answered at all and will likely need some good arm twisting to write those answers.

As for...

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the Force being hereditary, I assumed it was in a sense. The issue is that those who committed to the Jedi or Sith codes made it a firm commitment and it would be assumed they would have no time to commit to doing other things like having kids. From the Jedi, we know they abstain from forming attachments. Loving a single unique person would be an attachment and would go against their motto of "Letting go." So the Jedi and Sith went around the galaxy looking for force-sensitive beings to bring into their ranks. Every Jedi and Sith are basically nobodies. Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Palpatine, etc. All nobodies but they became somebody for the sake of the story.

Rey being a nobody isn't a problem. Rey being powerful isn't a problem. Rey exhibiting traits that she found out existed only a day before is my beef. At least Luke had Obi-wan at the start to nudge him in the right direction (and the dialog from TESB seems to imply he may have learned a few things on his own between movies). Rey had no one and yet here she is moving hundreds of heavy rocks with only 2 lectures. Luke had much longer tutelage under Yoda and couldn't lift his X-Wing out of a swamp.

Spoiler

 

I think it's fare to say that Luke had the strength, but he just didn't have the level of belief that Rey possessed. He even stated to Yoda, that he didn't believe, and Yoda's response was, of course, 'that is why you fail...'

Rey believes in the Force far more than Luke did, at the start of their training, and being far more powerful, I can see her lifting all those rocks, as well as breaking the one she was sitting on. That pure strength scared Luke, especially after what happened with Ben.

That doesn't explain how she knew to use a mind trick in TFA, other than to assume that it was one of the stories she had heard as a kid.

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Thom

[danth]

I think it's funny that after the prequel trilogy, The Force Awakens, and Rogue One, people are OUTRAGED that they have been disappointed by a new Star Wars movie.

Edited December 23, 2017 by danth

[kalvasflam]

I think the main problem with the current trilogy is the fact that the transition is really poor.  There was a good amount of lore between the prequel and the original series that was built up, so it feels like there is almost no gap.  

With the new trilogy, we went from the downfall of the empire to the First Order and the Resistance, and the Republic, and they haven't bothered to try to fill in what happened.  How did the heroes of the original become such a sad lot in life.  The idea of who was Snoke and the rise of the First Order is all embedded in this.  The continuity was from the characters, but what has happened to them is still not a good enough filler for the backstory.  I think the richness that is potentially missing is something that Disney need to work to fill.

May be another cartoon about how the first Order and Snoke came about, or some such thing.  Say what you will about the Prequels, but it helped really to universe build and put Palpatine on the map, even if the original Palpatine was not much different, he had gravitas.  Snoke was almost like a toss away.  I think it was a good move, but that's one backstory that could be interesting.

[no3Ljm]

The original ‘codebreaker’.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

I think the main problem with the current trilogy is the fact that the transition is really poor.  There was a good amount of lore between the prequel and the original series that was built up, so it feels like there is almost no gap.  

With the new trilogy, we went from the downfall of the empire to the First Order and the Resistance, and the Republic, and they haven't bothered to try to fill in what happened.

I confess that after watching The Last Jedi the other night, I came away with this weird impression that this latest Star Wars trilogy was a Tite Kubo-esque "Take that!" aimed at the fans who'd criticized the hell out of the prequel trilogy.  Not just that every character from the original trilogy has now moved into the same role as a supporting character from that same trilogy¹, but also that so many of the new characters have bios that read like they're right out of a fanfic.  Thankfully, they proceeded to mercilessly subvert the hell out of the expectations that arose from that... but it does kind of feel like they've twice now thrown the baby out with the bathwater in the process of subverting those expectations.

Feels like character development of important characters is too thin on the ground at present.  Quite a few events and characters² lack the impact they're clearly supposed to have because they're not developed.

 

Spoiler

1. e.g. Luke Skywalker filling Obi-Wan's shoes, Leia becoming the Mon Mothma to the new Resistance leaders, and so on.

2. e.g. Phasma, who is supposed to be an elite badass and doesn't really get to do much to justify it, and Snoke, who was probably the worst case of bait and switch in the franchise's history.

 

[jenius]

I think Phasma is a storm trooper and kind of an 'in' joke. Get it, the best storm trooper is still an idiot.

[Roy Focker]

Random Thoughts

1. Why bring Phasma back from the dead?  What did her character add to this film that they couldn't have just accomplished with some new generic masked villain who also dies like a punk?

2. What was the point of visiting a casino world and bringing  Benicio back with them?  Finn and Rose could went from the resistance ship directly to the first order's ship and things would have ended up the same way.  It was a pointless detour.

3. The Resistance are pretty stupid.  When the chase starts they have a fleet for the 300 Resistance members.  They can't jump into hyperspace because the First Order would track them down and they only enough fuel for one jump.  Their plan a slow chase to an old nearby base.   Not every ship of theirs can make the trip and one by one the First Orders blows them up.  We also learn that only one of the First Order ships is the tracking vessel.  Why didn't the Resistance fleet just split up and each ship jump a different direction?   The First Order couldn't go after them all at the same time.  Most of them would have gotten away.

4.  The First Order paid Benicio for selling Finn and Rose out.   Why would they do such a thing?  They're the bad guys.  You're suppose to thank the traitor who helped you by shooting him.

5. Did vanity kill Luke?   He used the force to project his image to people located light years away on another planet.  An impressive feet but would that really be enough to kill him?  He also altered his image to appear younger.  Did that moment of vanity over tax his life force?

[kajnrig]

53 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

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1. Why bring Phasma back from the dead?  What did her character add to this film that they couldn't have just accomplished with some new generic masked villain who also dies like a punk?

 

Did Phasma die in The Force Awakens? Honestly don't remember...

[jenius]

Luke had to die after his trick because, like the light speed ramming, it raises too many questions. Why would he ever go anywhere now? If it doesn't kill him, it makes him too powerful and is also problematic when retroactively applied. I like the notion that Kylo did kill him. Luke warns Kylo about striking him down, why would he do that unless Kylo could?

I don't get the Benicio arch at all. Why was he in the prison if he could leave at will? How did he know the rebels we're abandoning ship (maybe I missed something). How did Maz answer her call? It seemed stupid she was in battle taking phone calls. From that awful start to conclusion the arch sucks. I think it goes to the film makers trying to find something for Finn to do that leveraged his lack of a formal position in the Resistance. Finn should have just been at some medical facility to start the film and then he should have answered the Resistance call later by delivering fuel or something. Rose could have been with him and convinced him to help the Resistance rather than looking for Rey so he got his character development without the stupid fruitless quest. They could have gotten help from Lando instead on Benicio.

All that said, Vader didn't reward Boba with a light saber through the chest so the Empire seems to pay its debts.

[Chronocidal]

So I might have to reserve judgment on most of the movie until I see it again, because one or two things are literally giving me a mental block trying to remember them.

All told?  Liked it more than I expected to.  Had some very good bits, but also some really pants-on-head stupid parts, and I'm not sure how well it balances, but overall I think it's pretty well done.  Humor felt off at some points, but then I look back on the humor from some of the previous movies, and yeah, it's probably pretty fitting.

The one main thing that I really hope there is some follow-through on though is Luke's threat to Kylo to come back and haunt him.  The only thing I can picture with regard to this?  I want to see Luke become Ghost Nappa.  Not necessarily in canon, because that would be pushing things too far.. but I cannot help but imagine that, and it makes me smile way too much.

Also, I do appreciate bringing back the original puppet Yoda, but his appearance was a little inconsistent?  What hit me was that one of the sequences of him walking looked literally like a frame-for-frame recreation of a scene in the original trilogy.  I think it was him hobbling towards his bed in ROTJ, and I could have sworn they just digitally pasted classic footage into the new film.

All in all.. the chase sequence was stupid on innumerable levels, and while the casino arc had a reason, it wasn't well executed, or timed really.  The tactical stupidity never really ended sadly.

On the positive side of things though, I am entirely satisfied with the fact that the Resistance lost every single ship they had.  Maybe someone will design something worthwhile for Episode IX.  

Definitely some good sentimental callbacks in the soundtrack, I will say.  The thing that's bugging me hard though is that there's some particular scene in the movie that it struck me face-first just how well planned some particular aspect felt, and I feel like it was something setup in a previous movie that just worked out perfectly... but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was.  Going to drive me nuts until I see it again, probably.

[tekering]

56 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

there's some particular scene in the movie that it struck me face-first just how well planned some particular aspect felt, and I feel like it was something setup in a previous movie that just worked out perfectly...

Spoiler

That was when Luke boards the Millennium Falcon, finds R2, and tells him there's nothing that will make him leave his self-imposed exile... and then R2 plays Princess Leia's message to Obi-Wan Kenobi from A New Hope.

 

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, tekering said:

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That was when Luke boards the Millennium Falcon, finds R2, and tells him there's nothing that will make him leave his self-imposed exile... and then R2 plays Princess Leia's message to Obi-Wan Kenobi from A New Hope.

 

See, I thought about that, but I actually think it's a callback of some kind to TFA that actually plays out in an unexpected way, or just worked out better than I thought it should have.

[hachi]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:44 AM, ArchieNov said:

I'm just confused why so many people are watching this movie more than once, both those who liked it and those who didn't. I guess it just proves that SW is still one of the most lucrative movie franchises ever and it will sell regardless of quality.

One thing I don't get though is why the need to reserve opinion or watch a movie more than once before giving a review on it. I see a lot of reviewers saying they had to watch it at least twice first. Personally, if I missed out on certain details or didn't fully understand something during the first viewing, then it just means that the movie didn't do a good enough job on highlighting these to me. A movie should be good enough that it can deliver on just a single viewing.

I watched it again today because I missed some details, and also because I liked it. I also watched Thor Ragnarok twice because I also liked it very much. With TLJ I turned off the thinking brain and just enjoyed the visuals and Kylo/Rey/Luke's acting. And I don't think the quality of TLJ is that bad, sure it has flaws but I was still able to enjoy it. There was also stuff I didn't like from the OT too (and the prequels were forgettable). I like to think that everything balances out lol

Edited December 23, 2017 by hachi
edit

[slaginpit]

 

[jvmacross]

12 hours ago, kajnrig said:

 

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Did Phasma die in The Force Awakens? Honestly don't remember...

 

Apparently there is an entire moronic backstory to her "survival" from the trash compactor she was tossed into in TFA....forgotten all about this stupidity about the new movies...they can never make any sense because Disney wants to make a few extra bucks off of their most loyal fans with explanations via comics and books that "explain" all of the plot holes from the movies.....thankfully...if you really need to know...the internet comes through as it always does....pretty sure you can even watch the latest SW-ST turd for free by now on the webs!

[kajnrig]

25 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Apparently there is an entire moronic backstory to her "survival" from the trash compactor she was tossed into in TFA....forgotten all about this stupidity about the new movies...they can never make any sense because Disney wants to make a few extra bucks off of their most loyal fans with explanations via comics and books that "explain" all of the plot holes from the movies.....thankfully...if you really need to know...the internet comes through as it always does....pretty sure you can even watch the latest SW-ST turd for free by now on the webs!

Eh, I remember the days when Boba Fett survived the pit and/or had a whole bunch of clones. Or at least that was what I remember from hearsay. And then of course the prequel trilogy skirted character death by having Jango Fett be cloned en masse as well. So I suppose it's not too hard to imagine someone surviving... whatever it was they survived in TFA.

[Marzan]

My biggest thought coming out of the film was how the galaxy had become very, very small. If you've watched it, you know what i mean.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 minutes ago, Marzan said:

My biggest thought coming out of the film was how the galaxy had become very, very small. If you've watched it, you know what i mean.

Smaller than the old Expanded Universe, where the same double-handful of jerks were at the center of absolutely everything?

[Mommar]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Eh, I remember the days when Boba Fett survived the pit and/or had a whole bunch of clones. Or at least that was what I remember from hearsay. And then of course the prequel trilogy skirted character death by having Jango Fett be cloned en masse as well. So I suppose it's not too hard to imagine someone surviving... whatever it was they survived in TFA.

None of thise silly EU things were used to explain stuff between films though.  As far as the first three films were concerned Fett was Sarlac bait.  They didn't need some silly explanation in a terrible comic to explain how he got from Empire to Jedi.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Mommar

[kajnrig]

26 minutes ago, Mommar said:

None of thise silly EU things were used to explain stuff between films though.  As far as the first three films were concerned Fett was Sarlac bait.  They didn't need some silly explanation in a terrible comic to explain how he got from Empire to Jedi.

Fair point.

Just to confirm, the clone army ARE just straight up clones of Jango Fett, right? Or was there some gene manipulation going on?

[azrael]

38 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Just to confirm, the clone army ARE just straight up clones of Jango Fett, right? Or was there some gene manipulation going on?

There was some tinkering to make them less “rebellious” than the original. Otherwise, as the Kamino scene mentioned, perfect genetic replication. 

[jvmacross]

6 hours ago, Mommar said:

None of thise silly EU things were used to explain stuff between films though.  As far as the first three films were concerned Fett was Sarlac bait.  They didn't need some silly explanation in a terrible comic to explain how he got from Empire to Jedi.

Exactly 

 

 

[Marzan]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Smaller than the old Expanded Universe, where the same double-handful of jerks were at the center of absolutely everything?

I was thinking of distance more in terms of the amount of space between different scenarios in the films. Some of those craft must have been faster in light speed than the Millenium Falcon.

[electric indigo]

It also makes you wonder why they didn't scatter in those small ships all over the galaxy in the first place. It's not like the First Order had a firm grip on all known systems like the Empire.

[sh9000]

I just like the look of this updated fan poster.  I also think this TD 5491 Phenix Custom is funny.

Edited December 24, 2017 by sh9000

[derex3592]

Now that’s funny.

[Duymon]

Mark Hamill's face after the premiere should have served as a warning

It wouldn't be the first time it's happened. 

Nobody knew about the Twist with Vader and Luke at the end of EP 5 until the premiere and the actor for Vader didn't know his voice would be entirely dubbed out in EP 4.

TLJ seems like the Macross Delta of Star Wars for me. Not gonna bother raging about it. TOo much other fun crap to focus on

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Duymon

[jenius]

I saw it again last night, like it more now. My wife didn't like it as much a second time around. For me it was a couple items I had forgotten that answered issues I had with the plot, particularly around Benicio’s rule. 

 

I now also understand that Finn's casino plot isn't about Finn, it's another Poe f up to teach Poe another lesson... As well as the needed contrivance to set up the seeds of rebellion at the end. That ridiculous Maz scene also helps enforce the bad decision being made. [/spoiler]

I think fans will warm up to this similar to ESB, once they accept that this trilogy is a new set of films and not just a supplement to the middle trilogy. No, it will never be nearly as great since that movie turned SW from one popcorn flick into a rich universe, but this does a lot to move from the ultra derivative TFA to a trilogy that will stand on its own.

Edited December 24, 2017 by jenius

[therealfolkblues]

As a fan since '77, I enjoyed the movie. I just don't see the incessant need to pick these movies apart? There is nothing more ridiculous in this sequel trilogy than Lucas' ham-fisted retcons in the OT(Luke and Leia making out, then, oh they're siblings comes to mind). I go in with zero expectations and just try and enjoy them, as I got badly burned on the Prequels. Everyone is entitled to not like it, but as a movie/story it is no worse than any other SW movie IMO. Dave Filoni said Lucas told him one time to never be afraid to "grow" Star Wars, and I felt that's what's happening here and I welcome it, warts and all.

[Kelsain]

Took my 8 yo daughter to see this yesterday at a high-sensitivity showing. We had to take a break, as she declared it the scariest Star Wars ever. She asked to leave repeatedly, but I convinced her to stick it through. In the end, she loved it. I enjoyed it even more the second time around, though I still have issues with the pacing.

Best parts of seeing with her was her excitement for porgs and when 

when Snoke is laying bisected on the ground, she says “pull yourself together, Snoke!”

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Kelsain said:

Took my 8 yo daughter to see this yesterday at a high-sensitivity showing. We had to take a break, as she declared it the scariest Star Wars ever. She asked to leave repeatedly, but I convinced her to stick it through. In the end, she loved it. I enjoyed it even more the second time around, though I still have issues with the pacing.

Best parts of seeing with her was her excitement for porgs and when 

 

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when Snoke is laying bisected on the ground, she says “pull yourself together, Snoke!”

 

That is great! 

Chris