Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[jenius]

I read somewhere that the kids in the stable are playing with action figures recreating Luke's last battle with Kylo Ren. So, the idea is that Luke literally transformed himself into a legend that would bring hope. That sounded nice to me.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, kalvasflam said:

Except you, Azrael, for shame, need to go pay and watch that movie, and pad the pockets of the stockholders.

Mmmmm, nah.

[nhyone]

13 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

Been looking forward to this review more than the movie. Seems like The Last Jedi is a MESS.

 

 

I skipped everything about TLJ so that I could have an unspoiled HitB of it. RLM reviews are how I watch Star Wars these days. How far Star Wars has fallen for me. 

Nope, won't be watching TLJ.

[seti88]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

 

Wow that was an awesome tribute to luke! 

[Hikuro]

5 hours ago, seti88 said:

Wow that was an awesome tribute to luke! 

and that look he gives at the end to Rian, priceless. I need to show that to a co worker today.

 

[derex3592]

Going tonight with the wife and a buddy from work!!! SUPER STOKED! 

[slaginpit]

13 hours ago, ArchieNov said:

Personally, I didn't like TLJ because they didn't treat the OT characters and general SW universe with enough respect. It's the same reason why I hated the prequels.

There are much better ways of introducing an entirely new main set of characters while respecting the old. One example that immediately comes to mind is the Lunar: Silver Star Story and Lunar: Eternal Blue RPG games. But alas, I don't think many people will remember those games.

Perhaps another example is Transformers: Beast Wars. It had a lot of controversy at first since it was so different from the original TF. But later you see how it ties in to G1 and suddenly it's an amazing story.

On Point with Beast Wars.

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by slaginpit

[Dobber]

8 hours ago, Mommar said:

 

That was really moving....the lyrics and visuals, just....wow. Makes me sad for Luke the CHARACTER because of what he goes through and how he ends up, but then also how the FRANCHISE chose to portray him. Still very conflicted about this movie, I guess I’ll see how I feel after I see it again tonight.

Mark summed it up perfectly in that video....”If you go into this movie thinking you will recapture your childhood, you’ll set yourself up for disappointment.”  

Makes me wonder why is trying to recapture that wonder such a bad thing in Hollywood now, why does the new generation have to tear down what came before to make their way? I like the new characters but why can’t they find their own way without destroying ours? I know change is inevitable, I have no problem accepting that, but to just be thrown aside and shown  a message that what you did/or fought for didn’t matter and need to be killed/forgoten is really harsh.

 

Chris

Edited December 20, 2017 by Dobber

[Focslain]

52 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Makes me wonder why is trying to recapture that wonder such a bad thing in Hollywood now, why does the new generation have to tear down what came before to make their way? I like the new characters but why can’t they find their own way without destroying ours? I know change is inevitable, I have no problem accepting that, but to just be thrown aside and shown  a message that what you did/or fought for didn’t matter and need to be killed/forgotten is really harsh.

 

Chris

Just look outside. I've seen more reasons not to like the prior generations then like, at least from the POV of the new generation. Most of it stems from just seeing WHAT was done and not WHY it was done. Course the older generation in some fields are getting resentful and it's showing.

[peter]

Could have sworn I posted this:

 

Spoiler

 

[kajnrig]

Gonna do what others do and mark my responses like so. (This quote/spoiler tag system has its ups and downs.)

37 minutes ago, eXis10z said:

 

  Hide contents

Luke Skywalker: He was a really broken old man who had given up on everything and lost all hope. He never recovered from his tragedy until that very last moment where he force projected himself to distract Kylo Ren and give the rebels a chance to escape.

I really liked that part of his and the other OG characters' flaws was how they failed to deal with their legends outgrowing them. "I was a 'legend,'" he says mockingly.

Was I hoping he would appear and save the day with a grand lightsaber duel? Definitely! ... Liked how he dusted his shoulder off after the bombardment.

I half-expected him to stop the lasers in their tracks, just like Kylo Ren did in the previous movie. That would have been sweet, sweet poetry. That or deflect those giant laser bolts back at them with his lightsaber, which would have been poetry of its own. Hoisted by their own petard, or thereabouts. 

Rey: All those theories about her parentage and lineage and in the end we were all crapped on with her nobody status.

Going through some of the previous posts like I said I wouldn't do, I saw others voicing this opinion as well. I happen to like her "nobody" status, or at least the social commentary that it makes.

 

And now she's like some genius force wielder, from someone with absolute no knowledge of the force to advanced handling of the lightsaber in a matter of days/weeks(?) They practically shoehorned it down our throats. At least Luke had some cursory lessons from Yoda.

Luke spends ostensibly even less time with Yoda than she does with him, and he doesn't have any prior weapons experience to boot. And it's not like they haven't ever fudged with the "canon" having to do with lightsabers before. The way I hear it, one of the original ideas of lightsabers was that the beam blade was supposedly extremely "heavy," such that one HAD to be a Force wielder to properly use it. That was the in-universe justification for the slower-paced duel in Episode IV. The real reason was of course that rendering the blade was difficult. Then, with subsequent movies, they relaxed this idea more and more as the tech for rendering lightsaber blades became more efficient and easier to work with.

Finn: Into the second movie and I still have no idea of his purpose in this trilogy ... a lame excuse of a weak antagonistic relationship with an underused Phasma,

I like him quite a lot. He's the ultimate audience surrogate, especially those of the younger generation. And he, like you, doesn't know what his role is in all this. He's a nobody forced into the spotlight, and he's doing all he can to help out however he can.

As this blog points out, he's a coward, but he's also extremely empathetic. He will always run at the sign of trouble, but he runs in the direction of those in need. I forget what he was like in TFA (really I forget a lot about that movie), but over the course of this one his arc seems to be less about a fundamental shift in character as a gradual coming to terms with who he is and learning to work within that framework. In short, he's still maturing.

As for Phasma, though... yeah, that whole relationship... subplot... thing... was half-baked from the start.

a weird seemingly romance(?) with Rey and Rose(???)

I agree that Rose was one of the movie's well-intentioned missteps. Not the character herself, but the relationship with Finn. The apparent romantic feelings come out of left field... but then again, so did the Leia/Han thing, if you watch ESB with fresh eyes. I'm digging the ambiguity of Finn's relationships, though. It's blatant fanfic fuel. John Boyega and Oscar Isaac even admitted to playing up Finn and Poe's relationship in TFA for this very reason.

and a very anti-climatic ending for his heroic attempt to "let's save the day by blowing up the battering ram cannon".

It's subversive, to be sure. I like it and don't in equal measure... no, mostly I like it, but I do also dislike it.

 

1 hour ago, ArchieNov said:

The "Let the past die" theme may sound cool and all for some people, but if they really wanted to break away from what the SW franchise is known for, why even make it a sequel? Just make a new franchise. Or maybe they didn't have the confidence that the movie will be successful without the SW branding.

Well, I don't actually think that "let the past die" is a central theme of the movie. The theme is generational dissonance, and legacy and inheritance. How DO you respect the original, with all the legend and reverence that has built up in its wake; and more importantly, what about it is worth respecting in the first place? Why is Star Wars a cultural touchstone, and should it remain that way? How do you reconcile all the good you've gained from your forebears with all the bad?

A new franchise wouldn't be able to ask these questions, at least not as well, because... it's not Star Wars.

(Also it wouldn't have made $250 million opening weekend otherwise, so...)

38 minutes ago, Dobber said:

Makes me wonder why is trying to recapture that wonder such a bad thing in Hollywood now, why does the new generation have to tear down what came before to make their way? I like the new characters but why can’t they find their own way without destroying ours? I know change is inevitable, I have no problem accepting that, but to just be thrown aside and shown  a message that what you did/or fought for didn’t matter and need to be killed/forgoten is really harsh.

 

Where in the movies do you actually get that message?

Everywhere, with every character, you see them going from jaded and bitter about their inheritance from the old generation to taking away small but positive lessons from that same generation. The sole exception is Kylo Ren, who goes from worshiping the past (literally emulating it) to actively seeking to destroy it.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but for as badass as the new kids' lightsaber scenes were, nothing they did could possibly match what the OGs pulled off in this movie.

[captain america]

2 hours ago, Hikuro said:

and that look he gives at the end to Rian, priceless. I need to show that to a co worker today.

 

I'll just leave this here.  

[kajnrig]

6 minutes ago, captain america said:

I'll just leave this here.  

EDIT:

HOLDO WAS LAURA DERN I KNEW I RECOGNIZED HER FROM SOMEWHERE

Edited December 20, 2017 by kajnrig

[ArchieNov]

18 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Gonna do what others do and mark my responses like so. (This quote/spoiler tag system has its ups and downs.)

Well, I don't actually think that "let the past die" is a central theme of the movie. The theme is generational dissonance, and legacy and inheritance. How DO you respect the original, with all the legend and reverence that has built up in its wake; and more importantly, what about it is worth respecting in the first place? Why is Star Wars a cultural touchstone, and should it remain that way? How do you reconcile all the good you've gained from your forebears with all the bad?

A new franchise wouldn't be able to ask these questions, at least not as well, because... it's not Star Wars.

(Also it wouldn't have made $250 million opening weekend otherwise, so...)

  Reveal hidden contents

Everywhere, with every character, you see them going from jaded and bitter about their inheritance from the old generation to taking away small but positive lessons from that same generation. The sole exception is Kylo Ren, who goes from worshiping the past (literally emulating it) to actively seeking to destroy it.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but for as badass as the new kids' lightsaber scenes were, nothing they did could possibly match what the OGs pulled off in this movie.

 

IMO, you show respect to the OT by having the characters act according to the personality/behavior that's been established for them, rather than make them do things that make you go WTF. 

The same thing goes for the tech and tactics within the SW universe. I noticed a lot of things happening in the movie that aren't supposed to happen in SW if you know enough about the lore and history within the universe, otherwise it becomes PIS (plot induced stupidity).

[seti88]

 

1 hour ago, peter said:

Could have sworn I posted this:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Hahaha honestly i dont know wat was  the point of that scene??! Luke looks so creepy!!!

Wtf Disney!

Edited December 20, 2017 by seti88

[slaginpit]

For those saying "screw you, its new and its good crowd"

I dont think that is anyone's issue.  I am more accepting of Snoke. I thought he was cool. The way he bounced that force lightning off the floor was most impressive. His monologues and his overall presence. But that was a "NEW" Wasted opportunity.  Crybaby Ben could have been a good "New" Opportunity. In fact you could have just had a movie with Baby Benny and Snoke. Rey with her doe eyed fly trap mouth is waste of acting. 

 

What SHOCKS me is how people who like this movie regardless if its a new or old or some stupid combination of Star wars and just a film in general is

Bad pacing, bad acting, plot holes and unnecessary scenes that are disconnected. If you take this as a standalone as i think Some Guy Rian with a movie making history of a guy just flying into Hollywood, its just as bad as Transformer 2, 3, 4, 5, was there a 6? I cant remember anymore.

Being new is not an excuse for bad writing and bad moving making.....

[jvmacross]

23 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

Been looking forward to this review more than the movie. Seems like The Last Jedi is a MESS.

 

 

Good stuff in here....but if you don't want to waste your time sitting through it.....I will sum it up for you with the one line in it that sums up the ST....

"...the magic of Star Wars...now it's gone....flushed down the fuc*ing toilet....."

'nuff said.....

 

[Chronocidal]

50 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

What SHOCKS me is how people who like this movie regardless if its a new or old or some stupid combination of Star wars and just a film in general is

Bad pacing, bad acting, plot holes and unnecessary scenes that are disconnected. If you take this as a standalone as i think Some Guy Rian with a movie making history of a guy just flying into Hollywood, its just as bad as Transformer 2, 3, 4, 5, was there a 6? I cant remember anymore.

Being new is not an excuse for bad writing and bad moving making.....

You know, I'm not going to hold up the original trilogy as some amazing cinematic masterpiece... but the movies were a fun action/adventure in space, and that was really all that mattered.  They had a good amount of acting talent, but the movies weren't going to win anyone any Oscars for acting.  They were just fun to watch.

Now it just seems like they're making any movie they like, and counting on the nostalgia factor to cover the obvious flaws.  I'll be honest, I liked watching TFA despite its flaws, because it did have some genuinely fun moments with the characters.  It falls apart if you start thinking too much about anything, but I think the good parts were enough to carry most of the nonsense... or another way to think about it... if you take the story as a whole, write out the terrible coincidences and contrivances and change bits of the setting to fit the established universe a bit better?  You've got a pretty decent movie.

Nostalgia can only boost suspension of disbelief so far though, and it sounds like this just has so much going on out of character that it blows past the nostalgia filter and slaps you upside the head with the shattered fragments of the fourth wall.

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Chronocidal

[ArchieNov]

I like this rant video. He brings up a lot of the things wrong with the movie. My wife is a casual viewer (e.g. Not a SW fan) and she agreed with everything he had to say.

SPOILER Warning

 

[ArchieNov]

3 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Nostalgia can only boost suspension of disbelief so far though, and it sounds like this just has so much going on out of character that it blows past the nostalgia filter and slaps you upside the head with the shattered fragments of the fourth wall.

 

Very well said. I completely agree with this.

[Focslain]

 

20 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

You know, I'm not going to hold up the original trilogy as some amazing cinematic masterpiece... but the movies were a fun action/adventure in space, and that was really all that mattered.  They had a good amount of acting talent, but the movies weren't going to win anyone any Oscars for acting.  They were just fun to watch.

Now it just seems like they're making any movie they like, and counting on the nostalgia factor to cover the obvious flaws.  I'll be honest, I liked watching TFA despite its flaws, because it did have some genuinely fun moments with the characters.  It falls apart if you start thinking too much about anything, but I think the good parts were enough to carry most of the nonsense... or another way to think about it... if you take the story as a whole, write out the terrible coincidences and contrivances and change bits of the setting to fit the established universe a bit better?  You've got a pretty decent movie.

Nostalgia can only boost suspension of disbelief so far though, and it sounds like this just has so much going on out of character that it blows past the nostalgia filter and slaps you upside the head with the shattered fragments of the fourth wall.

 

This is where the Star Trek movie series is starting to pull ahead in my book. At least ST has the multi-verse net (same goes for the comicbook CUs currently). At least I can take the new version as just a different take of 'what if'.

Here we have technically one canon universe and the farther it diverts the more divided the fan base will get. 

[kalvasflam]

11 hours ago, azrael said:

Mmmmm, nah.

Ok, but can you at least go to one of the Marvel movies?  

[azrael]

38 minutes ago, kalvasflam said:

Ok, but can you at least go to one of the Marvel movies?  

I went to Iron Man how many years ago when I still had time to do such things.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Nostalgia can only boost suspension of disbelief so far though, and it sounds like this just has so much going on out of character that it blows past the nostalgia filter and slaps you upside the head with the shattered fragments of the fourth wall.

I'll say it again (and again and again and again.....): Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Yes, this movie literally takes the movie that preceded it and threw it over it's shoulder like none of it mattered. That's something that should never happen when you do a franchise movie. Why do the Marvel movies work? Because they follow events and world-building that occurred in the previous movies while doing their own thing. Rogue One respected everything that came before and after it while staying within it's bounds. TFA (minus all the JJ-logic and story telling) respects the rules of the road. This movie decides to take a whiz on it all (and be illogical at the same time). 

 

[Focslain]

44 minutes ago, azrael said:

I'll say it again (and again and again and again.....): Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.

Yes, this movie literally takes the movie that preceded it and threw it over it's shoulder like none of it mattered. That's something that should never happen when you do a franchise movie. Why do the Marvel movies work? Because they follow events and world-building that occurred in the previous movies while doing their own thing. Rogue One respected everything that came before and after it while staying within it's bounds. TFA (minus all the JJ-logic and story telling) respects the rules of the road. This movie decides to take a whiz on it all (and be illogical at the same time). 

 

So if I heard correctly, Luke pretty much sets the mood in the beginning? (seeing it this weekend)

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, ArchieNov said:

IMO, you show respect to the OT by having the characters act according to the personality/behavior that's been established for them, rather than make them do things that make you go WTF. 

The same thing goes for the tech and tactics within the SW universe. I noticed a lot of things happening in the movie that aren't supposed to happen in SW if you know enough about the lore and history within the universe, otherwise it becomes PIS (plot induced stupidity).

1.) I was a bit thrown off by how different the OT characters were from what I imagined they would be, too. But it's something like twenty, thirty years in the future, and people change. As the 20-odd years between OT and ST (for "sequel trilogy"?) got filled in little by little, I've come to understand better how characters came to be who they are. It's like seeing your old high school friend panhandling after twenty years, and you two sit down for a drink and talk about what happened the past two decades.

2.) Eh. Tech and tactics, lore... eh. It all seemed Star Wars-y enough for me. The bombers were a welcome surprise, though. Star Wars aping fighter jets and naval warfare, that was fine and dandy, but heavy bombers were unexpected. Also, I'll go out on a limb and say I thought the... monoskis? whatever they were at the end? were pretty neat, too. Helped to emphasize just how on the ropes these people were that they have to resort to almost literal rust 

2 hours ago, Focslain said:

This is where the Star Trek movie series is starting to pull ahead in my book. At least ST has the multi-verse net (same goes for the comicbook CUs currently). At least I can take the new version as just a different take of 'what if'.

Here we have technically one canon universe and the farther it diverts the more divided the fan base will get. 

The AU Trek movies have been hit and miss in their own right. The first was fine. Just decent, really, but it gets the alternate universe off on the right foot, same as TFA. The second movie is really just all kinds of terrible, and a great example of taking nostalgia too far. The third movie is easily the best of the three, and has the most in common with the source material (ie it's an intelligent movie) while being fundamentally its own thing.

This one feels a lot like that third Trek movie, actually. Both are intelligent movies almost more interested in their respective philosophical debates than telling a "proper" story, and the narratives do suffer a bit as a result. The new Blade Runner, too, now I think about it. All three eschew "traditional" narratives (and in the case of SW, directly criticizes it) in favor of using an established world and characters to explore a particular idea that strikes the author/writer/director's fancy.

Anyway. Thinking on it more, I like it more. Will probably see it again this weekend or next.

[TangledThorns]

As far as mid-trilogy films go I still think ATOC had far better battle scenes than TLJ.

 

 

[kalvasflam]

3 hours ago, azrael said:

I went to Iron Man how many years ago when I still had time to do such things.

You bastard, that was before Disney took over Marvel.  

Now, Mr. Iger is going to be on the look out for you, one of the few who have not paid your dues and sacrificed your first born at the alter of the Mouse.  

Next thing you're going to say is that you didn't watch Frozen.  How dare you.  That is practically sacrilegious.

 

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, TangledThorns said:

As far as mid-trilogy films go I still think ATOC had far better battle scenes than TLJ.

This may be some kind of blasphemy, but I never thought the prequel stories were bad, for the most part.  They definitely had their share of nonsense, but I could argue a few changes in actors and dialogue could make them pretty amazing.  I remember hearing that people who disliked the movies thought the novelizations were a much better way to experience the prequels.  And seriously, the prequel battles were pretty good.

Even for TFA, I heard there were a few changes that greatly improved the story in the novelization.  My biggest personal gripes with that movie were almost purely literal JJ-isms, and if you re-paced the movie to make the universe actually feel big, instead of everyone seeming to exist within a 5 minute jog of each other, it would make up for a lot of that.  Say whatever you will about how much direct influence JJ had on the plot, but it's the exact same problem I had with the 2009 Star Trek reboot.  Everything was stupidly conveniently close together, to the point of rampant magical mcguffinism that allowed distance between planets to be effectively ignored.  To paraphrase Han, "That's not how (insert appropriate science fiction travel method here) works!!!"  The core story still felt like it fit to me.. at least mostly.

In this case, it's sounding a lot like there's no simple change that could make the movie fit the universe better, and it's just a matter of the story itself going off the rails to where it doesn't fit with the others. 

Note, this doesn't mean it's automatically a bad movie.  It could still be awesome, and amazing entertainment... if it were part of some kind of alternate universe that's not tied to the first six movies in the series.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Chronocidal

[captain america]

8 hours ago, slaginpit said:

For those saying "screw you, its new and its good crowd"

I dont think that is anyone's issue.  I am more accepting of Snoke. I thought he was cool. The way he bounced that force lightning off the floor was most impressive. His monologues and his overall presence. But that was a "NEW" Wasted opportunity.  Crybaby Ben could have been a good "New" Opportunity. In fact you could have just had a movie with Baby Benny and Snoke. Rey with her doe eyed fly trap mouth is waste of acting. 

 

What SHOCKS me is how people who like this movie regardless if its a new or old or some stupid combination of Star wars and just a film in general is

Bad pacing, bad acting, plot holes and unnecessary scenes that are disconnected. If you take this as a standalone as i think Some Guy Rian with a movie making history of a guy just flying into Hollywood, its just as bad as Transformer 2, 3, 4, 5, was there a 6? I cant remember anymore.

Being new is not an excuse for bad writing and bad moving making.....

 

 

Also, new information about deleted scenes!

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by captain america

[ArchieNov]

Those deleted scenes do nothing to redeem the movie IMO. In fact, I think they make it worse in general. I am glad they cut them out.

I'd use that meme too, except that I'd replace the word "BAD" with "GOOD". It's all a matter of opinion.

[Dobber]

Just got back from my second viewing. I actually liked it a lot more this time around. Many of the “thematic “ issues I had weren’t as apparent as I thought. I believe that my opinion was being influenced by some reviews online that are making it overly political or putting large amounts of social commentary into their reviews that people seem to do to EVERYTHING lately. I’m curious how this movie will “age” with audiences especially after 9 comes out. 

It still has issues, but I enjoyed it much more now. Definitely like it. 

Chris

Edited December 21, 2017 by Dobber

[kajnrig]

@captain america Did you voice your opinion about the movie somewhere in the last few pages? It seems like you really liked it, but I haven't scoured through the pages to find out.

1 minute ago, Dobber said:

Just got back from my second viewing. I actually liked it a lot more this time around. Many of the “thematic “ issues I had weren’t as apparent as I thought. I believe that my opinion was being influenced by some reviews online that are making it overly political or putting large amounts of social commentary that people seem to do to EVERYTHING lately. I curious how this movie will “age” with audiences especially after 9 comes out. 

It still has issues, but I enjoyed it much more now. Definitely like it. 

Chris

I also wonder this. It SEEMS like a very time-locked movie, but... you never know.

[spacemanoeuvres]

 

[captain america]

15 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

@captain america Did you voice your opinion about the movie somewhere in the last few pages? It seems like you really liked it, but I haven't scoured through the pages to find out.

I also wonder this. It SEEMS like a very time-locked movie, but... you never know.

I don't recall if I said so explicitly up until now, but I loved it. Saw it twice so far, will likely see it another 2 times in the theatre if time permits.