BeyondTheGrave Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) So I haven't seen it yet. But from the plot synopsis on Wikipedia and various post; it sounds like half the movie was spent trying to create iconic moments rather than telling a story. Reveal hidden contents Also this is stupid: Edited December 21, 2017 by BeyondTheGrave Quote
seti88 Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 Remember a JEDI does not give in to anger! With all the strong emotions on TLJ, am beginning to think Rian Johnson is secretly the emperor! Quote
slaginpit Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 On 12/21/2017 at 4:19 AM, BeyondTheGrave said: So I haven't seen it yet. But from the plot synopsis on Wikipedia and various post; it sounds like half the movie was spent trying to create iconic moments rather than telling a story. Reveal hidden contents Also this is stupid: Expand this one is better I dont know how to use the hide function Quote
electric indigo Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Ok I'm late to the party so I try to keep it short Reveal hidden contents The Good: All the scenes with Luke, Rey & Kylo. Great acting at work here, and I loved the different angle on the Luke/Ben conflict. What I feared would be a more tedious Dagobah sequence with Rei's training actually delivered some of the best moments of the film with Rey in the cave and her moves with her fighting stick and then with the Lightsaber! This shot blew me away. I also loved how the movie dealt with Snoke's character, which was my main gripe for TFA. Unfortunately, for every great idea the movie had a couple of really, really bad ones: The Bad: Basically, it fell apart into sequences described above, which were IMO very much in tonal harmony with the Star Wars universe (I even appreciate the direction they took with Luke) – and the rest, which felt like watching an episode of Battlestar Galactica, and I don't mean the re-imagined series... Every scene with Poe & Finn I was like: Ok they try to make this a character moment - but it doesn't work out. And then they try to make this a bonding moment - but it doesn't work out. There was a never ending line of things that took me out of the movie. Like the FO order officers that apparently graduated in the hammy acting 101, the resistance admiral in her evening gown and purple hair, all the lame jokes, the contrived side plots. While the visuals were well made, there was a lack of epic scenery that we've seen in every other Star Wars entry so far. There were great images with the walkers in the background in the final act and beautiful pictures of Skellig Michael, but many shots were lacking the pure visual power that we've come to expect from the franchise. Most crucial to me were the structural issues. The whole rebel escape plot aside, which fell totally flat, the movie should have ended after Kylo & Rey take out the Pretorians, preferably with Rey taking side (for the moment) with Kylo. That would have been the perfect setting for EP IX. Edited December 21, 2017 by electric indigo Quote
captain america Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 Another insightful article. http://www.superherohype.com/news/409511-last-jedi-spoilers-rian-johnson-on-reys-parents-snoke-and-more#/slide/1 Quote
slaginpit Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/21/2017 at 11:47 PM, captain america said: Another insightful article. http://www.superherohype.com/news/409511-last-jedi-spoilers-rian-johnson-on-reys-parents-snoke-and-more#/slide/1 Expand that is BS! Ah yeah post release well I thought that this character is saying, uh well that is what this character is thinking. Um I am watching a movie not a post play scene breakdown thank you. Jeez Quote
ArchieNov Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) I'm just confused why so many people are watching this movie more than once, both those who liked it and those who didn't. I guess it just proves that SW is still one of the most lucrative movie franchises ever and it will sell regardless of quality. One thing I don't get though is why the need to reserve opinion or watch a movie more than once before giving a review on it. I see a lot of reviewers saying they had to watch it at least twice first. Personally, if I missed out on certain details or didn't fully understand something during the first viewing, then it just means that the movie didn't do a good enough job on highlighting these to me. A movie should be good enough that it can deliver on just a single viewing. Edited December 22, 2017 by ArchieNov Quote
jenius Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 No, you're way off on that. A great movie has thought put into every scene and it's almost impossible to catch it all in one viewing. You're asking for the extreme dumbing down of cinema which is generally what we hear people lamenting. A good movie should be a fun viewing the first time, no argument there, but it should get better as you watch it more. Quote
Thom Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) I'll be watching it again, because I did enjoy it despite some choices made that I don't agree with. It was good, and I want to experience it again at least once more on the big screen. It's also a chance to review scenes, to see them again and catch what I missed the first time. While I'll agree that a movie should be understood with one viewing, without the need to find explanations to fit disparate points together, really good movies benefit from having those varied elements that could be missed the first time, while we were experiencesing all the others. Edited December 22, 2017 by Thom Quote
kalvasflam Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 2:39 AM, Thom said: I'll be watching it again, because I did enjoy it despite some choices made that I don't agree with. It was good, and I want to experience it again at least once more on the big screen. It's also a chance to review scenes, to see them again and catch what I missed the first time. Expand Both Bob Iger and all the Disney shareholders thank you for making the decision to watch again, and the same applies to all the wonderful people who spent money more than once to watch the wonderful movie that is TLJ. We urge all those who viewed the movie only once to go again and see what you missed the first time, and then again to make sure you get all the easter eggs we spent so much time putting in. Thank you all, except for Azrael, who needs to go to the damn movies that Disney is making, be it Pixar, Disney animation, Marvel, Star Wars, even the crap from Johnny Depp instead of what he is doing now. Gawd, I feel like a mouthpiece for Disney. Quote
seti88 Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 1:44 AM, ArchieNov said: I'm just confused why so many people are watching this movie more than once, both those who liked it and those who didn't. I guess it just proves that SW is still one of the most lucrative movie franchises ever and it will sell regardless of quality. One thing I don't get though is why the need to reserve opinion or watch a movie more than once before giving a review on it. I see a lot of reviewers saying they had to watch it at least twice first. Personally, if I missed out on certain details or didn't fully understand something during the first viewing, then it just means that the movie didn't do a good enough job on highlighting these to me. A movie should be good enough that it can deliver on just a single viewing. Expand Am considering watching it again just to see luke almost turn into a baddie! Quote
kajnrig Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 1:44 AM, ArchieNov said: I'm just confused why so many people are watching this movie more than once, both those who liked it and those who didn't. I guess it just proves that SW is still one of the most lucrative movie franchises ever and it will sell regardless of quality. One thing I don't get though is why the need to reserve opinion or watch a movie more than once before giving a review on it. I see a lot of reviewers saying they had to watch it at least twice first. Personally, if I missed out on certain details or didn't fully understand something during the first viewing, then it just means that the movie didn't do a good enough job on highlighting these to me. A movie should be good enough that it can deliver on just a single viewing. Expand Others have already stated basically my opinion on the matter, but also you're not wrong, either. A movie SHOULD be good enough to deliver from the first viewing. I happen to think this movie is good enough, but I also know that if I were to see it again, unburdened by having to keep track of certain story and character elements, there are things I didn't pay close attention to the first time that I would love to the second time around. The visuals for one thing, and the visuals of one specific moment in particular. On 12/22/2017 at 3:25 AM, kalvasflam said: Both Bob Iger and all the Disney shareholders thank you for making the decision to watch again, and the same applies to all the wonderful people who spent money more than once to watch the wonderful movie that is TLJ. We urge all those who viewed the movie only once to go again and see what you missed the first time, and then again to make sure you get all the easter eggs we spent so much time putting in. Thank you all, except for Azrael, who needs to go to the damn movies that Disney is making, be it Pixar, Disney animation, Marvel, Star Wars, even the crap from Johnny Depp instead of what he is doing now. Gawd, I feel like a mouthpiece for Disney. Expand You joke, but this is actually something I strongly considered before ponying up the dough. Disney already has too much money, do I really want to give them more? Turns out I did. Damn it. Quote
azrael Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 3:25 AM, kalvasflam said: Thank you all, except for Azrael, who needs to go to the damn movies that Disney is making, be it Pixar, Disney animation, Marvel, Star Wars, even the crap from Johnny Depp instead of what he is doing now. Expand ... Nah. Quote
kajnrig Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 6:39 AM, azrael said: ... Nah. Expand You're a far stronger man than I am. Godspeed. Quote
nhyone Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 If you like TLJ, you might want to help by watching it again. Because despite repeat viewings from fanboys, it is floundering. After a pretty good opening weekend (although it still loses to TFA), it is now raking in half of TFA (~$20mil daily vs $40mil). Yes, there are people who like it, but there are more people who don't. For reviewers who attended the premiere and did not give a rating, I suspect they are copping out to avoid being a total sellout. The huge difference in critic and audience score (92% vs 52% likes as of now) on Rotten Tomatoes is very telling. Top critics give it a whopping 96%! If you were young, you might not know the true magic of Star Wars. ANH had a simple story, but it was focused and coherent. The special effects were out-of-this-world and the settings looked real. It was as-if you were in that world. The Empire and the Force were just backdrops. The musical score made it memorable. Speaking of which, I haven't seen anyone mention the score in TLJ? The original trilogy stood the test of time. They still hold up very well today, except that the special effects are now commonplace and the story is also too simple and too slow for the modern crowd. And not enough humor. And diversity. And gender equality. Quote
kalvasflam Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) On 12/22/2017 at 8:08 AM, nhyone said: And not enough humor. And diversity. And gender equality. Expand Oh yes, definitely need more humor, more diversity, more gender equality.... The modern star wars should be a social /political commentary... not a ****ing scifi movie. That way we can attract a large and diverse audience, so marvelous Disney can make more money. Still, there were enough worth while scenes to make it worth while. Oh, and did I forget to mention that this is a Disney film? As for the jest about the Disney film, it's not a bad thing if you happen to be a share holder. Edited December 22, 2017 by kalvasflam Quote
electric indigo Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 ...and if you bring in diversity, make sure that the racial stereotypes are still maintained. Quote
ArchieNov Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 2:10 AM, jenius said: No, you're way off on that. A great movie has thought put into every scene and it's almost impossible to catch it all in one viewing. You're asking for the extreme dumbing down of cinema which is generally what we hear people lamenting. A good movie should be a fun viewing the first time, no argument there, but it should get better as you watch it more. Expand I'm not saying that people should get every single detail about a movie in one viewing. My comment was about those reviewers who said they CAN'T give an opinion yet on the movie UNTIL they watch it again. It makes me think these reviewers were second guessing their initial opinion because they didn't expect to have the reaction they did at first, and therefore wanted to watch it again, but this time taking into account other people's opinion of the movie and confirm whether they agree with them or not. So basically a second viewing is usually influenced by others and therefore may not be a completely personal or genuine opinion any longer. Quote
slaginpit Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 3:25 AM, kalvasflam said: Both Bob Iger and all the Disney shareholders thank you for making the decision to watch again, and the same applies to all the wonderful people who spent money more than once to watch the wonderful movie that is TLJ. We urge all those who viewed the movie only once to go again and see what you missed the first time, and then again to make sure you get all the easter eggs we spent so much time putting in. Thank you all, except for Azrael, who needs to go to the damn movies that Disney is making, be it Pixar, Disney animation, Marvel, Star Wars, even the crap from Johnny Depp instead of what he is doing now. Gawd, I feel like a mouthpiece for Disney. Expand I didnt pay a single cent. Not for this, or Transblubbers 3, 4, 5 and I think 6. And I watched some scenes over just for shits and giggles. Its time for hollywood.......to end Quote
Thom Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 I don't care if it's Disney or not. I like Star Wars, and I liked TFA and liked TLJ. Simple. I have nothing against or for Disney, whether they are a juggernaut or not, or the 'flavor-of-the-week' to be beaten up on because of 'reasons.' As for diversity, I've NEVER seen this as a bad thing. Consider, the setting is in a broad universe with aliens, but all we are supposed to see are white men..? I want more women in it! I want more than just grey scale. I want that woman pilot who dies taking out the Executer to have her voice back, rather than the manly voice over! I don't want simple or easy to please. I want complication. I want diversity! Quote
slaginpit Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 2:38 PM, ArchieNov said: I'm not saying that people should get every single detail about a movie in one viewing. My comment was about those reviewers who said they CAN'T give an opinion yet on the movie UNTIL they watch it again. It makes me think these reviewers were second guessing their initial opinion because they didn't expect to have the reaction they did at first, and therefore wanted to watch it again, but this time taking into account other people's opinion of the movie and confirm whether they agree with them or not. So basically a second viewing is usually influenced by others and therefore may not be a completely personal or genuine opinion any longer. Expand Its not that. People are dumb. I know its obtuse. But its true. People are herded cattle. And although we are a gregarious species still we are supposed to be smarter. Ahem In the immortal words of HLM. "No one would ever go broke underestimating the collective intelligence of the american public " Quote
slaginpit Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 3:43 PM, Thom said: I don't care if it's Disney or not. I like Star Wars, and I liked TFA and liked TLJ. Simple. I have nothing against or for Disney, whether they are a juggernaut or not, or the 'flavor-of-the-week' to be beaten up on because of 'reasons.' As for diversity, I've NEVER seen this as a bad thing. Consider, the setting is in a broad universe with aliens, but all we are supposed to see are white men..? I want more women in it! I want more than just grey scale. I want that woman pilot who dies taking out the Executer to have her voice back, rather than the manly voice over! I don't want simple or easy to please. I want complication. I want diversity! Expand I think Diversity is a good thing too. We need more of it in the ME, Israel, Japan, China, India. Not enough White dudes in those movie industries. I KID I KID! Quote
Kanedas Bike Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 *peeks head in* Sees the temperature is still very high in the room. *exits* -b. Quote
captain america Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 6:58 PM, Kanedas Bike said: *peeks head in* Sees the temperature is still very high in the room. *exits* -b. Expand Don't mind the haters. If anything, it's to be expected when decisions are made to take risks with a franchise as large and popular as this one. That being said, this could possibly, maybe be a thing: Reveal hidden contents https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1749999/apparently-kylo-ren-isnt-the-first-apprentice-snoke-trained Quote
Kanedas Bike Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 7:50 PM, captain america said: Don't mind the haters. If anything, it's to be expected when decisions are made to take risks with a franchise as large and popular as this one. That being said, this could possibly, maybe be a thing: Reveal hidden contents https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1749999/apparently-kylo-ren-isnt-the-first-apprentice-snoke-trained Expand Fair point and it's all good - people are passionate about the property and characters. I'll just leave it at that. I still very much enjoyed the movie, flaws and all. Re: Snoke, I won't buy into any theories until something appears on screen. He's starting to get the same amount of status and fan interest as characters like Boba Fett. I like how his particular story progressed and I'm very content to just leave his story as is. -b. Quote
captain america Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 8:21 PM, Kanedas Bike said: Fair point and it's all good - people are passionate about the property and characters. I'll just leave it at that. I still very much enjoyed the movie, flaws and all. Re: Snoke, I won't buy into any theories until something appears on screen. He's starting to get the same amount of status and fan interest as characters like Boba Fett. I like how his particular story progressed and I'm very content to just leave his story as is. -b. Expand I guess you could say that those fan theories about the Supreme Leader all went up in Snoke! Quote
BlackRose Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 8:21 PM, Kanedas Bike said: Fair point and it's all good - people are passionate about the property and characters. I'll just leave it at that. I still very much enjoyed the movie, flaws and all. Re: Snoke, I won't buy into any theories until something appears on screen. He's starting to get the same amount of status and fan interest as characters like Boba Fett. I like how his particular story progressed and I'm very content to just leave his story as is. -b. Expand For me that was the movie's biggest weak point. You can't just change gears like that and act like it's no big thing. Quote
electric indigo Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 I always felt that Snoke wasn't needed in the new story ark that started with TFA. For an unstable character like Ben, wouldn't he fall for the dark side on his own, once he experienced the power at his hands, especially with his lineage? I still like the idea that he founded the knights of Ren from a band of fellow disciples of Luke. Reveal hidden contents Another idea: The speculation is that Luke dies from exhaustion after his Force projection, but wouldn't it be plausible that Kylo actually did kill him with his lightsabre, given that we are shown how in Kylo and Rey's projection, effects carry over to the other side. Also, Luke looks down (where Kylo hit him) after the duel. Quote
jenius Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 Reveal hidden contents I'm not happy about the sudden dispatch of Snoke, particularly if it's not revisited. I'm fine with Rey being a nobody. In fact, I think that's fitting. The Jedi didn't have families and the Sith well... honestly their background seemed awfully contrived and impractical but it didn't seem like they were making long family trees. So anyway, the force isn't supposed to be a hereditary thing, it's supposed to be a thing that happens so I'm fine with Rey being a thing that happened. It's a lot better than Rey is a random thing than that Anakin didn't have a father.. groan. The theories that Anakin was brought about through a Sith Lord manipulating the force at least were fun. Anyway, getting back to Snoke, Luke says that Leia blamed Snoke for Ben's downfall. How did Leia know of Snoke? How did Luke know of Snoke? The answers around these questions and where Snoke was at with the first order play a lot into how bad it was that Luke ran away. Perhaps, for that reason, it's better Snoke be left a question mark since there's no satisfying way to answer about his history without tarnishing Luke further. The knights of Ren are another big question mark. There were other kids that joined Ben. Were they not the guards in Snoke's room? If not, what happened to them? Quote
captain america Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 10:06 PM, electric indigo said: I always felt that Snoke wasn't needed in the new story ark that started with TFA. For an unstable character like Ben, wouldn't he fall for the dark side on his own, once he experienced the power at his hands, especially with his lineage? I still like the idea that he founded the knights of Ren from a band of fellow disciples of Luke. Reveal hidden contents Another idea: The speculation is that Luke dies from exhaustion after his Force projection, but wouldn't it be plausible that Kylo actually did kill him with his lightsabre, given that we are shown how in Kylo and Rey's projection, effects carry over to the other side. Also, Luke looks down (where Kylo hit him) after the duel. Expand Reveal hidden contents When Kylo and Rey have their mind bridged the first or second time, Kylo says to Rey that she can't be the one doing this, the effort would kill her. I think it went unnoticed partially because of the sound/voice distortion going on when he said it. I suspect it was verbalized specifically so the audience would understand the events with Luke later. As for Kylo reacting to Rey's pistol shot, I think that's more akin to the reaction of someone immersed in a VR scenario. You'll notice that he was completely uninjured from the event, merely startled. Quote
azrael Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 10:12 PM, jenius said: Reveal hidden contents I'm not happy about the sudden dispatch of Snoke, particularly if it's not revisited. I'm fine with Rey being a nobody. In fact, I think that's fitting. The Jedi didn't have families and the Sith well... honestly their background seemed awfully contrived and impractical but it didn't seem like they were making long family trees. So anyway, the force isn't supposed to be a hereditary thing, it's supposed to be a thing that happens so I'm fine with Rey being a thing that happened. It's a lot better than Rey is a random thing than that Anakin didn't have a father.. groan. The theories that Anakin was brought about through a Sith Lord manipulating the force at least were fun. Anyway, getting back to Snoke, Luke says that Leia blamed Snoke for Ben's downfall. How did Leia know of Snoke? How did Luke know of Snoke? The answers around these questions and where Snoke was at with the first order play a lot into how bad it was that Luke ran away. Perhaps, for that reason, it's better Snoke be left a question mark since there's no satisfying way to answer about his history without tarnishing Luke further. The knights of Ren are another big question mark. There were other kids that joined Ben. Were they not the guards in Snoke's room? If not, what happened to them? Expand Those questions were not answered at all and will likely need some good arm twisting to write those answers. As for... Reveal hidden contents the Force being hereditary, I assumed it was in a sense. The issue is that those who committed to the Jedi or Sith codes made it a firm commitment and it would be assumed they would have no time to commit to doing other things like having kids. From the Jedi, we know they abstain from forming attachments. Loving a single unique person would be an attachment and would go against their motto of "Letting go." So the Jedi and Sith went around the galaxy looking for force-sensitive beings to bring into their ranks. Every Jedi and Sith are basically nobodies. Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Palpatine, etc. All nobodies but they became somebody for the sake of the story. Rey being a nobody isn't a problem. Rey being powerful isn't a problem. Rey exhibiting traits that she found out existed only a day before is my beef. At least Luke had Obi-wan at the start to nudge him in the right direction (and the dialog from TESB seems to imply he may have learned a few things on his own between movies). Rey had no one and yet here she is moving hundreds of heavy rocks with only 2 lectures. Luke had much longer tutelage under Yoda and couldn't lift his X-Wing out of a swamp. Quote
electric indigo Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 10:26 PM, captain america said: Reveal hidden contents When Kylo and Rey have their mind bridged the first or second time, Kylo says to Rey that she can't be the one doing this, the effort would kill her. I think it went unnoticed partially because of the sound/voice distortion going on when he said it. I suspect it was verbalized specifically so the audience would understand the events with Luke later. As for Kylo reacting to Rey's pistol shot, I think that's more akin to the reaction of someone immersed in a VR scenario. You'll notice that he was completely uninjured from the event, merely startled. Expand Reveal hidden contents I seem to remember Kylo shaking off drops of water after projecting to Rey's location. Quote
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